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Title: Joel Osteen: Mitt's a Real Christian (Mormon-LDS-Smithian Cult)
Source:
AOL News
URL Source: http://news.aol.com/political-machi ... osteen-mitts-a-real-christian/
Published: Dec 28, 2008
Author: Tommy Christopher
Post Date: 2008-01-13 13:30:23 by _______
Keywords: Mormon, Smithian, Cult
Views: 4080
Comments: 21
In an interview with Fox News' Chris Wallace, popular televangelist Joel Osteen gave Mitt Romney an endorsement of sorts, addressing the doctrinal issues that many had hoped would be addressed in Romney's "Faith in America" speech. WALLACE: And what about Mitt Romney? And I've got to ask you the question, because it is a question whether it should be or not in this campaign, is a Mormon a true Christian? OSTEEN: Well, in my mind they are. Mitt Romney has said that he believes in Christ as his savior, and that's what I believe, so, you know, I'm not the one to judge the little details of it. So I believe they are. And so, you know, Mitt Romney seems like a man of character and integrity to me, and I don't think he would - anything would stop me from voting for him if that's what I felt like. WALLACE: So, for instance, when people start talking about Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, and the golden tablets in upstate New York, and God assumes the shape of a man, do you not get hung up in those theological issues? OSTEEN: I probably don't get hung up in them because I haven't really studied them or thought about them. And you know, I just try to let God be the judge of that. I mean, I don't know. I certainly can't say that I agree with everything that I've heard about it, but from what I've heard from Mitt, when he says that Christ is his savior, to me that's a common bond. How, if at all, will this help Mitt Romney? What did Osteen say about Huckabee? What does my Mom think about all of this? After the jump. This is interesting to me, because it can cut several ways. Osteen is very popular, and very influential with a large number of evangelical Christians. A statement like this could knock some people off the fence about Romney. On the other hand, Osteen gets some criticism from theologians who doubt his credibility as a preacher, and people like that might be unmoved. To me, the fact that the question was even asked is ridiculous. In fairness to Osteen, he says elsewhere in the interview that faith is a factor, but not the only factor. I agree with him there. If the Jets get a great Quarterback in the draft, I don't care if he worships Magilla Gorilla. Conversely, it would be nice if our next president were a Jets fan, but I'm not gonna switch my vote over it. (Okay, maybe I will.) Wallace asks Osteen about Mike Huckabee, too, and I'll include the exchange and get back to it later. WALLACE: So in that sense, what do you make of Mike Huckabee, a Southern Baptist pastor who's doing so well and, in effect, using his faith as part of his platform? OSTEEN: Well, you know what? I like Mike Huckabee. I've never met him. My brother's from Little Rock and he knows him and says he's a fine man. And so I like what he stands for. In this post on my Mom's blog, Lady of Light, she kinda takes Joel to the woodshed a little. She made me promise to say that she loves Joel Osteen, and makes her criticism lovingly. She makes some very interesting points about Osteen's response. When asked about his lack of formal bible education, Joel mentioned that the disciples didn't have a formal education and they were chosen by Jesus. While it is true that the disciples didn't have formal bible education, we must remember that they walked with Jesus, himself, and if they had any questions, they could ask him directly. Today, we rely on God's word and those who are knowledgeable in God's word to guide us and help us to formulate sound doctrine and beliefs. In the book of Timothy, Paul exhorted Timothy to The common bond of salvation that Joel Osteen acknowledges with Mitch Romney is important but sloughing off the validity of the doctrine of the Mormons, which differs from other Christian Churches is not following in the example which was given to young Timothy as a Pastor of the early church. Paul continues to tell Timothy in 2 Timothy Chapter 4:1-2: While Joel Osteen may have a special calling, it is important to know that he has a concern for sound doctrine as well because in our everyday life we don't want to be "tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the sleight of men..." (Ephesians 4:14) as the bible warns. I don't think a person needs a Doctorate for that - they just need to believe that the bible is the word of God and find out what it teaches. I know Joel Osteen believes that the bible is the Word of God ...where does it speak of these things that are mentioned about the doctrine of the Mormons? "And I even heard Billy Graham say this, and I think it's true. Sometimes when you take strong stands, if you're not called to do it, you're dividing the audience you're trying to reach. I'm trying to throw a big net out there to say to anyone that God loves them and he's in control. And I think the moment - even our church is so diverse. We have Republicans, Democrats, independents. And I think the moment I start saying, "Well, go this route," well, this group's going to just say, 'I'm not going to listen to him because of the political stance.'"
From what I've seen, I don't think he's overdone it. I think he's just - you know, he's a Baptist pastor. That's in him. And I think he's just standing up for what he believes in.
It's a great point that I've often wondered about regarding religions in general. If everybody's "saved", what's the point of having different doctrines, and if you believe yours is correct, how can you believe others are "saved"? Her point is that Osteen was correct to say that Mitt is "really a Christian", but that he should have pointed out the importance of doctrine to each church.
"Study and show thyself approved, a workman who need not be ashamed, RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH.: (2 Timothy2:15)
"I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; PREACH THE WORD INSTANT IN SEASON AND OUT OF SEASON: REPROVE, REBUKE, EXHORT WITH ANN LONGSUFFERING AND DOCTRINE..."
As for Osteen's remarks about Huckabee, I see in them either a complete disinterest in the topic, or a damnation with faint praise, I can't decide. "My brother likes him"? I think that Osteen's responses here bespeak an appropriate disinterest in the "world of men". Later in the transcript, Wallace asks Osteen why he doesn't weigh in often on topics like "gays or abortion."
Whatever you think of Osteen as a preacher, it's hard to argue with that point. I think ultimately, this will help Romney, even if it shouldn't. (2 images)
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#2. To: All (#0)
"By Cobblestone Road Ministries" We do not know Joel Osteen personally. He seems like a nice man and he even seems very sincere and no doubt fervently believes in what he is preaching. But one can be sincere and be sincerely wrong. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. OUR SINS. Matthew 1:21 says, And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Well, that includes everyone then because all have lied at least once. God cannot have sin in His Holy presence. This is why Jesus died for us...to redeem us and to wash our sins away by His precious shed blood. The Bible says in 1John 3:5 And ye know that he [Jesus] was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. The bible also tells us in 1Peter 3:18 primary no matter what's happened to you." John 3:3: Jesus answered and said unto him, road of condemning." Jude 1:3 his goal to twist Scripture. His desire is the removal of scripture from the foundation of the sermon; he instead wants in the Book of Life was cast into the Lake of Fire. Well, if a pastor of 30,000 + doesn't feel its his place to literally tell his sheep about hell and what the Bible says, who on earth will tell them? Joel Osteen seemed a bit nervous when asked about his beliefs: a message of Good News but Well, how can one know he needs a Savior if hell is not preached?? A PASTOR'S DUTY with the Word of God-- the milk of the Word and the meat as well. The foundation of any sermon is the preaching of the Word-- the focus being will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:" In addition, the so-called worship songs of this age are becoming "We" and "I" songs but true worship is giving all glory to God alone. Tell of HIS wondrous deeds...praise the Lord-- "YOU have done great things O Lord." The Bible warns us that in the Last Days, some shall listen to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons. The Bible warns about those having "itching ears". We cannot rewrite the Christian faith to please the world. WE CANNOT IMPROVE THE WORLD! We were not called to make the world "civilized". We were not called to place bandages over sin. Jesus did NOT command us, "Go ye and improve the world." Jesus said, "Preach the Gospel." It is Jesus alone that can save and one only gets saved by hearing the Gospel message
#3. To: _______ (#2)
I think Joel Osteen & Dr. Phil are about the same myself.
Amen bump.
Give Joel a break. He lives in Houston, Texas. It is a LIVING HELL ON EARTH.
Just as bad as bohemian grove & skull & bones occultist fags. I ran across a mormon guy i know last week and he referred to Paul as a 'liberal demoocrat'. He of course was a romney supporter. romney is a true conservative, he claimed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestJoel Osteen - What's Wrong With His Preaching?
He has been rebuked by many within Evangelical and Christian Fundamental circles for the very reason that he does not stick to just the preaching of the Word. It is not so much what he is preaching but rather what he is NOT preaching. The entire Word of God must be preached. Where is the Gospel? Where is the preaching of Jesus as Savior? The Lord Jesus died to save us from our SINS-- Romans 6:23
Joel Osteen says that he does not want to condemn anybody. Well, we are not supposed to condemn anybody. We are to preach the Good News that Jesus died to save us from our sins-- and that there is eternal damnation awaiting those who die in their sins. We cannot compromise Scripture or candy coat the SIN PROBLEM which exists.
One can paint daisies on a pig but in the end, a pig is a pig. We cannot candy coat sin and try to preach around it. Jesus did not die to give us a luxury car;
nor did He die to make us successful. Jesus died for
The Bible says in Revelation 21:8, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and
Now, where is this preached in Joel Osteen's "success" type sermons? Many successful people pour into hell everyday. Many successful people die in their sins for they did not receive Jesus as their Savior. We all need a Savior to save us from our sins. This is why Jesus came. This is why we have received Him
as Savior. Whenever one forgets this is the
THE GOSPEL IS NOT A CONDEMNING MESSAGE
Joel Osteen said on Larry King Live, "The Gospel called the good news. My message is a message of hope, that's God's for you. You can live a good life
A person cannot even live a good life apart from Christ. All our righteousness
is found in Christ. He clothes us with His righteousness. We cannot change.
All of our righteousness is as filthy rags, the bible says.
Larry King: "You don't call them sinners?"
Joel Oteen: "I don't."
Larry King: "Is that a word you don't use?"
Joel Osteen: "I don't use it. I never thought about it. But I probably don't. But most people already know what they're doing wrong. When I get them to church I want to tell them that
No, Joel, one cannot change-- that is why one has to be born again. Outside of Christ Jesus, a person is a poor wretched sinner on his way to hell. It is Christ alone who changes us once we receive Him as Savior. We cannot transform ourselves-- it is God alone who transforms us once we have received His Son!
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Is the Gospel message a condemning one? No! The Lord Jesus said that those who did not believe on Him are
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name". So the good news is that Jesus saves. It is not a condemning message but rather the ONLY good message preached to a dying world-- a world that is already condemned because of its sin. GOOD NEWS IS THAT JESUS DIED FOR SINNERS....this is what the Bible says!!
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in
the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joel Osteen has been openly admonished by Evangelicals and Fundamentalists for blending his own philosophy--with jokes and humor and just throws choice scriptures in between a "sermon". With a very large church attendance such as his, we would pray that he would get on the straight and narrow and "study to shew thyself approved"so that he would better lead his congregation into the fundamentals of the Word.
In this day and age of apostasy, it is important for a pastor to stay true to the fundamentals of the faith for when the foundations of our faith are lost...where will the church be? Jesus said that when He returns; "shall I even find faith
on the earth?" So we know that faith will be scarce upon the earth in the Last Days.
The world is moving into a "universal faith" with a generic god and a "positive message" that
EARNESTLY CONTEND FOR THE FAITH
The Bible clearly admonishes us to "Earnestly contend for the faith." We are
to beware of false doctrines and to be aware of the spiritual dangers that await the unsuspecting Christian who has little or no discernment. Joel Osteen views
these particular Evangelicals and Fundamentalists who speak against his "gospel light" sermons as "critics". But what must be realized is that it has nothing to do with him but rather what he is preaching and what his kind of preaching leads to...ecumenism, new age ideas like "God and you" but our bible says that it is "Christ alone" which performs the good work in and through us.
We would rejoice at the success of his church if he were preaching the Gospel and teaching the Word of God...the deep things found within Scripture but
sadly he is on a dangerous path, as we shall explain. One website described his ministry as "MegaChurch and miniGospel".
Joel Osteen views his message as "positive" and it most certainly is but in the REAL world, there is good AND evil. The Bible speaks much about hell, the devil, the evil of this age and the spiritual battle that the Christian is in.
Congregations are to be taught the DANGERS of following false teachers and the dangers of not adhering strictly to Scripture.
1Cor 2:14
The Lord Jesus said in John 3:20, For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Yet Joel Osteen's church is growing by leaps and bounds. It is a place where most can feel very comfortable. Everyone leaves feeling good about themselves and their "purpose". The Word of God warns us in 2Timothy 4:3-4
Today, there are many pastors who are preaching what their congregations WANT to hear rather than what God's Word says to preach. The message the preacher delivers should be one of repentance. No one likes to hear the word, "repentance".
One cannot just preach the "positive" but rather one must rightly divide the
Word of Truth and preach the WHOLE WORD OF GOD. There is a devil. The bible says that he walks about seeking whom he may devour. Satan appears as an angel of light-- which means he is out to deceive and he is the master of deception. The Bible admonishes CHRISTIANS to be sober and vigilant. It is the Christian the Bible is warning:
1Peter 5:8
If a vicious lion from the Houston Zoo were to get loose and run into Joel Osteen's church, would not everyone inside run for cover? Would there be a "feel good" positive response? Absolutely not! Every "dream your dream" type sermon and "fulfill your potential" sermon would not remedy the lion running through the isles. Yet the devil walks about in the spiritual realm seeking those he may devour. Just because you can't see him does not mean he does not
exist. The devil is out to destroy the sheep; he wants to destroy the faith of
the sheep. Since faith comes by hearing the Word of God, satan has made it
THE DEVIL IS RELIGIOUS
The devil is religious. He doesn't mind if you read a verse here or there but he does not want you to really READ the Word-- for when a person Reads the Bible, they find the truth.
The devil rewrites God's Word..."Yea, hath God said?"
The devil is a POSITIVE PREACHER..."You won't die...your eyes will be opened, you will be like gods" is his theme among many "Christians" today,
just as it was with Eve in the garden of evil.
Christians now say, "Oh I don't believe in all that hell and damnation stuff. I
am into positive Christianity." Yet the Bible is specific in stating that there is a Lake of Fire and the bible is specific in stating that whosoever was not found
Consider what Joel Osteen said on July 3, 2005, during an interview on Larry King:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/03/lkl.01.html
KING: But you're not fire and brimstone, right? You're not pound the decks and hell and dam nation?
OSTEEN: No. That's not me. It's never been me. I've always been an encourager at heart. And when I took over from my father he came from the Southern Baptist background and back 40, 50 years ago there was a lot more of that. But, you know, I just -- I don't believe in that. I don't believe -- maybe it was for a time. But I don't have it in my heart to condemn people. I'm there to encourage them. I see myself more as a coach, as a motivator to help them experience the life God has for us.
KING: But don't you think if people don't believe as you believe, they're somehow condemned?
OSTEEN: You know, I think that happens in our society. But I try not to do that. I tell people all the time, preached a couple Sundays about it. I'm for everybody. You may not agree with me, but to me it's not my job to try to straighten everybody out. The Gospel called the good news. My message is a message of hope, that's God's for you. You can live a good life no matter what's happened to you. And so I don't know. I know there is condemnation but I don't feel that's my place.
KING: Do you share Billy's beliefs of life after death in a sense of going somewhere?
OSTEEN: I do. I do. We probably agree on 99 percent. I do. I believe there's a heaven you know. Afterwards, there's, you know, a place called hell. And I believe it's when we have a relationship
with God and his son Jesus and that's what the Bible teaches us. I believe it.
KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?
OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...
KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?
OSTEEN: Well,
and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and
what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.
They Love God? Which God? They have hundreds of gods and if they are not born again then they DO NOT know God for he who knows the Father must first know His Son-- the Lord Jesus!
Was Joel being a politician when he said, "I don't know if I believe they're wrong..."? Meanwhile, so many Christians all over the globe were saying, "Speak plainly-- Stand up for your faith!" There are missionaries and Christians all over the world who are standing up for the Lord Jesus Christ in the face of brutal persecution. Christians die every day for their faith. One has to wonder how they would respond to Joel's answers. True Christians believe Jesus is the ONLY way to Heaven and that is why they reach the lost. This is why they are willing to die preaching the Gospel.
The Bible is NOT shades of gray with blended philosophies of man. The Bible is very clear that it is ONLY through Jesus Christ that mankind can be saved. We cannot argue with God. We cannot rewrite the Bible. Joel Osteen made a written apology on his website for the King interview. One has to wonder if he also made an apology to Larry King-- for the misleading and cowardly statements. He very well should, if he has not already.
Preaching the whole Word of God is not a condemnation message either. It is
Preaching hell is not condemnation but rather good news that Jesus died to
save us from hell. We all deserve hell but Christ Jesus died for the ungodly.
He died so that we would not have to die in our sins. His blood can make the vilest sinner clean. One cannot get saved unless he knows he is truly lost. One must hear WHY Jesus died to save them. Jesus did not come to show us a "better life" but rather He died to save us from our SINS and He rose again from the dead on the Third Day. Jesus is the Living Savior!
It is only after one receives Him as Savior that they receive the benefits of salvation, which is abundant life through Jesus Christ.
We all need to pray for Joel Osteen and especially his congregation. He says that he believes the bible but he needs to be bold and preach the entire bible,
How can one know of biblical salvation without the WHOLE Gospel message being preached-- saved from what? From problems? or from hell? Jesus spoke of those that did not believe would perish. Jesus preached the doctrine of hell. He said that it would be better to cut off your hand than to go into everlasting torment.
John 3:36
2Tim 4:2
It is a pastor's duty to build his congregation up on the most holy faith. A
pastor takes care of his sheep-- he guards them and feeds them. He guards against false doctrines infiltrating the church and he feeds his congregation
study is needed. A shepherd must lead the sheep in the proper direction. The only way he knows the right direction is by reading and studying the road map-- the Holy Bible-- all of it-- not just some of it.
2Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
on the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished work--what He accomplished for us
at the Cross and in His Resurrection. The sermon should not be about us but rather about Him. One observation that can be noted is that many churches today say "We" an awful lot but the bible is VERY clear in James 4:13-15:
that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that."
Christ Jesus said in John 15:5, "Without me ye can do nothing."
"he which hath begun a good work in you
It is God alone who works a good work in us. We, of ourselves, can do nothing.
WORSHIP
Many worship songs are "I will worship you, I will sing to you, etc. "I...I...I..."
but its not about "I"-- it's about Him. He has saved us, redeemed us, He is coming back for us. Worship is to magnify the Lord, not to say, "I will sing to you". Worship is praising Him. "Praise you Lord for all you have done. You
are worthy. You are exalted above all." "Not I but Christ liveth in me."
CONCLUSION
1Tim 4:1
shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines
of devils;
The Greek means to "tickle the ears"...in other words "ear candy".
People seeking preachers who will preach sermons that please their ears.
How can a preacher possibly lead his flock on the narrow path when he has abandoned the ONE AND ONLY road map-- the Bible and the true doctrines found therein? How can the shepherd lead his sheep in truth when his road
map is lost among humanistic ideas and "make you feel good" type sermons?
The Bible-- Sola Scriptura-- must again resound within the Body of Christ.
Notice that God was speaking
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Read the words of Jesus:
Rev 3:16
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Jesus said, "Buy of me.." We are to LOOK to Him. The Church, as a whole, has much wealth, many goods and many "christian" books and sermons. They keep filling their storehouses with material wealth that is but temporal. If we believe God's Word, we are not to be ashamed of our faith in Christ Jesus.
We are to look to Him.
We are NOT to consider the words of Jesus as "condemning words".
and believing on Him.
Joel Osteen takes a well traveled path seeking to be an "encourager" but in turn compromises the Word of God by his omission of VERY important Scriptural truths. THERE IS A HELL AND JESUS DIED FOR OUR SINS so that we would not have to go there. The bible is to be preached IN ITS ENTIRETY. God’s Word tells us that, “ALL Scripture is profitable”…not just the Joel Osteen favorites.
2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Replies to Comment # 2.
#4. To: _______ (#2)
Jesus did NOT command us, "Go ye and improve the world." Jesus said, "Preach the Gospel." It is Jesus alone that can save and one only gets saved by hearing the Gospel message and believing on Him.
#5. To: _______ (#2)
#6. To: _______ (#2)
9. Temple Rituals. A typical temple ceremony would take place as follows: "The ritual began in a small cubicle where we had to strip completely. We then put on 'the shield,' a poncho with a hole for the head, but open on the sides (similar to a hospital gown). We went through a series of 'washings and anointings,' as various parts of our bodies were touched by elderly temple workers who mumbled appropriate incantations over them. Our Mormon underwear, 'the garments,' are said to have powers to protect us from 'the evil one.' It had occult markings, which were so 'sacred' that we were instructed to burn them when the garments wore out. The endowment ceremony mocked all doctrines held to by Biblical Christianity, and Christian pastors were portrayed as servants of Satan. We had to swear many blood oaths, promising we would forfeit our lives if we weren't faithful, or if we revealed any of the secrets revealed to us in the temple ceremonies. We were made to pretend by grotesque gestures to cut our throats, chests, and abdomens, indicating how we would lose our lives. We were never told who would kill us! The inference was, and history testifies to, that it would be the Mormon priesthood." (Testimony of a former Mormon.) [Note: The blood oaths
End Trace Mode for Comment # 2.