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Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: New and Newer Versions of Scripture
Source: Washington Post
URL Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w ... 630-2005Feb18?language=printer
Published: Feb 19, 2005
Author: Post
Post Date: 2005-02-19 11:07:16 by crack monkey
Keywords: Scripture, Versions, Newer
Views: 2070
Comments: 36

New and Newer Versions of Scripture

Saturday, February 19, 2005; Page B09

Criticism of Today's New International Version of the Bible began three years ago with the publication of the TNIV New Testament. Opponents accused the translation committee, an independent group of evangelical scholars, of bowing to political correctness and feminist theology in using "gender neutral" or "inclusive" language.

The committee made adjustments to the 2002 text before this month's publication of the complete Bible. But committee members said they did not abandon their goal of providing an accurate translation.

Critics call the effort a failure, many preferring TNIV's precursor, the best-selling New International Version published in 1978. Here are some passages they cite:

Isaiah 19:16

NIV: "In that day Egyptians will be like women. They will shudder with fear at the uplifted hand that the Lord Almighty raises against them."

TNIV: "In that day the Egyptians will become weaklings. They will shudder with fear at the uplifted hand that the Lord Almighty raises against them."

Hebrews 12:7

NIV: "Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?"

TNIV: "Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father?"

James 1:12

NIV: "Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him."

TNIV: "Blessed are those who persevere under trial, because when they have stood the test, they will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him."

Acts 20:30 (Paul is saying farewell to Ephesian elders)

NIV: "Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away the disciples after them."

TNIV: "Even from your own number some will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away the disciples after them."

Psalm 119:9

NIV: "How can a young man keep his way pure? By living according to your word."

TNIV: "How can those who are young keep their way pure? By living according to your word."

an example of a verse revised after release of the New Testament:

Mark 1:17 (Verse revised after release of the New Testament)

NIV: " 'Come, follow me,' Jesus said, 'and I will make you fishers of men.'"

TNIV (2002): " 'Come, follow me,' Jesus said, 'and I will send you out to catch people.' "

TNIV(2005): " 'Come, follow me,' Jesus said, 'and I will send you out to fish for people.' "

-- Bill Broadway

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#1. To: crack monkey (#0)

Another big reason the whole work is suspect. It's like a piece of fine antique furniture, perhaps beautiful and meaningful at one time, but covered through the years by really awful coats of bad paint.

That's Scripture. The work has been so corrupted by man and his agenda, and interpretation that I believe it to be unusable.

Add into the mix the influence of Paul's biased and sexist contributions, and the New Testament becomes rather more a treatise on Paul's particular spin on Christianity than any useful model. The more of his work I read, the more I'm convinced he possessed far more love for Paul than he did for Christ (whom he NEVER met or followed during his lifetime).

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-02-19   11:12:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: crack monkey (#0)

The ADL would like the New Testament cleaned up of its "hate"

1776  posted on  2005-02-19   11:48:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Samuel Gray (#1)

Add into the mix the influence of Paul's biased and sexist contributions, and the New Testament becomes rather more a treatise on Paul's particular spin on Christianity than any useful model. The more of his work I read, the more I'm convinced he possessed far more love for Paul than he did for Christ (whom he NEVER met or followed during his lifetime).

Au contraire.. Paul/Saul did in fact meet Christ.. Acts 9

1 Now Saul,...........it happened that he was approaching Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him; 4 and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?" 5 And he said, "Who are You, Lord?" And He said, "I am Jesus whom you are persecuting, 6 but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do." 7 The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one. 8 Saul got up from the ground, and though his eyes were open, he could see nothing; and leading him by the hand, they brought him into Damascus. 9 And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

Zipporah  posted on  2005-02-19   11:55:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Zipporah (#3)

I remembered that, but I meant a "real" meeting, corporeal, if you will, rather than a disembodied voice from heaven.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-02-19   12:01:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: crack monkey (#0)

Opponents accused the translation committee, an independent group of evangelical scholars

Why exactly did this project necessitate a group of "translation scholars"?

A group of 10th graders could have done this. This doesnt even seem to require any translation at all. They are just substituting words that are already in english; making things gender neutral.

Rothbard  posted on  2005-02-19   12:29:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Rothbard (#5)

I have no opinion on this. I just thought you guys would be interested. I've always been curious about how much of the bible was really lost in translation. I look at some of the Zen translations and they are all so different that it's hard to tell that they are from the same Japanese source, and they are coming from a modern language.

I also wonder how it was decided which books to toss out and which to keep at the Concordence of Worms back in about 800. I used to have a book with the disallowed books of the bible, e.g., the book of Mary, Jesus and the Dragon, a book supposedly by Mary Magdeline, etc.

What is you guy's opinion on the Gospel of Thomas the Contender?

Gospel of Thomas the Contender

crack monkey  posted on  2005-02-19   12:38:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Rothbard (#5)

Introduction

There is a growing consensus among scholars that the Gospel of Thomas – discovered over a half century ago in the Egyptian desert – dates to the very beginnings of the Christian era and may well have taken first form before any of the four traditional canonical Gospels. During the first few decades after its discovery several voices representing established orthodox biases argued that the Gospel of Thomas (abbreviated, GTh) was a late-second or third century Gnostic forgery. Scholars currently involved in Thomas studies now largely reject that view, though such arguments will still be heard from orthodox apologists and are encountered in some of the earlier publications about Thomas.

Today most students would agree that the Gospel of Thomas has opened a new perspective on the first voice of the Christian tradition. Recent studies centered on GTh have led to a stark reappraisal of the forces and events forming "orthodoxy" during the second and third centuries. But more importantly, the Gospel of Thomas is awakening interest in a forgotten spiritual legacy of Christian culture. The incipit (or "beginning words") of Thomas invite each of us "who has ears to hear" to join in a unique quest... snip

Nag Hammadi Library on the Gospel of Thomas

crack monkey  posted on  2005-02-19   12:46:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: crack monkey (#6)

What is you guy's opinion on the Gospel of Thomas the Contender?

The Nag Hammadi texts are interesting in that they seem to even predate the historic "gospels" of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, written years after Christ's death.

The structure of it seems different than the other gospels, more of an eastern religious feel to them (to me).

I've been reading a companion book to Dan Brown's (fictitious) Da Vinci Code, and the gospel of Thomas is discussed, along with the gospel of Phillip (which would have been an interesting "what do you think" question), which has Jesus kissing Mary Magdalene on the mouth frequently, and being a point of contention between the disciples because they asked Jesus "Why do you love her more than you love us?" to which he replied "Why do I NOT love you as much as I love her?" We'll skip the concept of "hieros gamos" and why Mary violated Jewish custom by letting her hair down in front of males to wash Jesus feet for another discussion.

Very interesting stuff, and not at all what we've been led to believe from the KJV of things.

The sad part is the guy that found the Nag Hammadi jar containing the scrolls / codices (bound in leather), said many of them were burned by his mother (or wife) for heat and cooking.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-02-19   12:48:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Samuel Gray (#8)

The sad part is the guy that found the Nag Hammadi jar containing the scrolls / codices (bound in leather), said many of them were burned by his mother (or wife) for heat and cooking.

Coal to Scroll ... unless, unfortunately, the ashes were used on Wednesday .........

2Trievers  posted on  2005-02-19   13:00:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Zipporah (#3)

...suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him; 4 and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?" 5 And he said, "Who are You, Lord?" And He said, "I am Jesus whom you are persecuting,...

I would have to call this a "come to the Risen Lord" meeting.

Lod  posted on  2005-02-19   13:29:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: crack monkey (#0)

Another thing regarding "translations" or new interpretations, is when authors, many of whom are considered to be scholars on American history, feel the need to "dumb down" some of the famous writings from Americas Founders.

Take The Federalist [Papers] for example. That probably galls me more than anything because it happens to be one of my favorite collection of historical writing. I have seen several revisions of The Federalist from different scholars, and the wording is occasionally subtley changed; its expurgated of the antiquated and beautiful English that our Founding Fathers spoke, and replaced with dumbed-down 20th Century vernacular... and sometimes the new wording does make a difference... but overall its just annoying in general.

I mean the documents [Federalist Papers] were written in English to begin with.... theres simply no need to be reinterpreting what is already written plainly in English language. What the hell is wrong with people for goodness sake?

Rothbard  posted on  2005-02-19   13:45:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Samuel Gray (#4)

Well it seems that there were witnesses to it.. not a figment of his imagination..I guess meeting someone online isn't meeting them either? :P

Zipporah  posted on  2005-02-19   14:04:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: crack monkey (#0)

Well I have no problem with these translations as cited.. They were not referring to men as a gender but to mankind..

Zipporah  posted on  2005-02-19   14:07:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Zipporah (#12)

.I guess meeting someone online isn't meeting them either? :P

Not quite. If I send you IMs telling you I'm God and to wire me all your money...

:D

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-02-19   14:11:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Samuel Gray (#14)

First of all you'd be barking up the wrong tree :P ..

Zipporah  posted on  2005-02-19   14:17:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Zipporah (#15)

First of all you'd be barking up the wrong tree :P ..

Got any rich gullible friends you want to send to "Damascus?" ;)

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-02-19   14:36:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: lodwick (#10)

I would have to call this a "come to the Risen Lord" meeting.

yep.. and these people who are in denial I think if their names were called out it would be likened to the soldiers in the Garden .. when Jesus said "I Am"... they were knocked off their feet..

Zipporah  posted on  2005-02-19   17:26:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Samuel Gray (#1)

That's Scripture. The work has been so corrupted by man and his agenda, and interpretation that I believe it to be unusable.

2 Timothy 2:13 - if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

He STILL loves you Les!!!!!

=0)

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-02-19   17:30:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: crack monkey (#0)

Wow..

I'm sure glad they fixed all these horrible "errors" and left in the part calling Jesus by Satan's name.

All that sexist stuff was confusing people.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-02-19   17:40:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#18)

He STILL loves you Les!!!!!

He knows where I live and that I don't return checks uncashed. ;)

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-02-19   17:51:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Zipporah (#17)

Jesus said "I Am"... they were knocked off their feet..

Trust me, I've asked for that kind of proof. Still silence.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-02-19   17:53:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Samuel Gray (#21)

Trust me, I've asked for that kind of proof. Still silence

Are you sure you were REALLY listening? Or only waiting for the answer you WANTED to hear?

I am such a pain, huh???

=0_

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-02-19   18:04:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#22)

Or only waiting for the answer you WANTED to hear?

I'm waiting for the "still small voice" to read my Lotto numbers.

Samuel Gray  posted on  2005-02-19   18:08:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Samuel Gray (#23)

LOL!

Reminds me of that movie "Bruce Almighty"

CAPPSMADNESS  posted on  2005-02-19   18:11:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: crack monkey (#6)

I also wonder how it was decided which books to toss out and which to keep at the Concordence of Worms back in about 800.

The oldest extant N.T. has 2 books in it that are not in the present Bible. Who took those 2 out I wonder.

1776  posted on  2005-02-19   18:22:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: 1776 (#25)

Which two books are those ??

Zipporah  posted on  2005-02-19   18:24:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Zipporah (#26)

Which two books are those ??

Codex Sinaiticus is a 4th century manuscript of the New Testament. It also contains most of the Septuagint. It is at the British Library in London.

The two books of the New Testament that are in the Codex S. and missing from current N.T. are the Epistle of Barnabas and part of The Shepherd of Hermas.

1776  posted on  2005-02-19   18:30:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: 1776 (#27)

ah.. thanks.. do you have a link re this? Thanks

Zipporah  posted on  2005-02-19   18:31:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Christine (#27)

my above post

1776  posted on  2005-02-19   18:32:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: crack monkey (#0)

Who's publishing this? I smell Rupert (Zondervan Publishing) Murdoch in here somewhere...

who knows what evil  posted on  2005-02-19   20:54:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: who knows what evil (#30)

Rupert (Zondervan Publishing) Murdoch

Oh really? Rather like that very "christian" Oxford Publishers publishing the Scofield Notes?

Zipporah  posted on  2005-02-19   20:56:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Zipporah (#31)

Yeah...kinda like that. :-)

who knows what evil  posted on  2005-02-20   18:15:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: who knows what evil (#32)

Very interesting.. I wasn't aware of that little tidbit..

Zipporah  posted on  2005-02-20   18:15:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Zipporah (#33)

I'll admit I was a bit surprised when I heard that, but when you consider the perspective of Fox News Channel, it starts to make sense.

who knows what evil  posted on  2005-02-20   18:19:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: who knows what evil (#34)

I'll admit I was a bit surprised when I heard that, but when you consider the perspective of Fox News Channel, it starts to make sense.

So it seems to control it all does make sense.. the news.. the reading material even Christian literature and reference books.. Goebbels no doubt would've loved it..

Zipporah  posted on  2005-02-20   18:21:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: crack monkey (#0)

TNIV(2005): " 'Come, follow me,' Jesus said, 'and I will send you out to fish for people.' "

Ouch.

CWRWinger  posted on  2005-02-21   21:31:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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