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War, War, War
See other War, War, War Articles

Title: New armored truck sees first Iraq death
Source: HSI
URL Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080122 ... pe/iraq_armored_vehicles_death
Published: Jan 22, 2008
Author: LOLITA C. BALDOR
Post Date: 2008-01-22 19:42:27 by richard9151
Keywords: None
Views: 197
Comments: 11

1 hour, 13 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - A soldier killed over the weekend south of Baghdad was the first American death in a roadside bomb attack on a newly introduced, heavily armored vehicle, military officials said Tuesday.

The death, however, has not changed the Pentagon's mind about its plans to spend more than $22 billion to buy thousands of the mine-resistant, ambush-protected vehicles, known by the acronym MRAP, for the Army and Marine Corps to use in Iraq and Afghanistan, said Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell.

"That attack has not ... caused anyone to question the vehicle's lifesaving capacity," Morrell said. "To the contrary, the attack reaffirms their survivability."

The soldier who died Saturday was the gunner who sits atop the MRAP vehicle. Morrell said it is still not clear whether he died as a result of the explosion or the rollover. And Maj. Alayne P. Conway, deputy spokeswoman for the 3rd Infantry Division, said the attack and the death are under investigation.

Morrell said the MRAP hit a "very large, deep-buried IED" and that the "force of the explosion blew the MRAP into the air and caused it to overturn." Despite the size of the explosion, he said, the crew compartment "was not compromised" and the three soldiers inside escaped with cuts and broken bones in their feet.

"I think everybody is still amazed at the fact that, despite the size of this bomb, these vehicles are proving to be every bit as strong and as lifesaving as we hoped they would be," said Morrell, adding that Defense Secretary Robert Gates is "more convinced than ever that these vehicles do indeed save lives."

The V-shaped hull of the huge MRAP truck is designed to deflect blasts from roadside bombs, a weapon that has killed more American soldiers than any other tactic used by Sunni insurgents and militia fighters in Iraq.

Although this is the first fatality since the new MRAP program was declared a Pentagon priority and launched about a year ago, there have been three recorded American fatalities in similar vehicles prior to that. In one case, a service member who was not wearing his seat belt was killed when the bomb exploded near the vehicle.

There now are more than 2,225 of the costly vehicles in service in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the Pentagon is working to buy as many as 12,000 more. MRAPs cost between $500,000 and $1 million, depending on their size and how they are equipped. They can weigh between 19 and 40 tons.

Morrell said that commanders in Afghanistan are interested in getting some of the lighter MRAPs, which they said would work well in that terrain.

The sophisticated vehicles are being built and put into service in a bid to provide soldiers and Marines more protection than is offered by armored Humvees, which have flat bottoms that absorb the shock waves from a blast. The bottom of an MRAP also is 36 inches above the ground, while Humvees sit much closer to the roadway.

The MRAPs are not as agile as the Humvees, however, and thus are more cumbersome and not ideal in some battlefield locations.


Ah, $500,000 to $1,000,000 each.... its good to be a part of the military industrial complex. Yes, indeed.

And say what.... 6 months? Maybe, 3 months? And we will hear no more about how good these trucks are. Cause those dummies in Iraq will have them all figured out.

Click for Full Text!

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#1. To: richard9151 (#0)

MRAPs cost between $500,000 and $1 million, depending on their size and how they are equipped. They can weigh between 19 and 40 tons.

What a racket. For an extra $200,000 you could go all out and buy some Russian T-72s instead. Three of these mad max rejects cost as much as an M1A2 main battle tank, weigh almost as much as one, but the only firepower they sport is a remote fired M2 Browning.

Got to love those slab sides too. Why not just paint a bullseye on it for every insurgent with an RPG and a bad attitude.

Remember kids: Crap weapons = More profit!

"The more I see of life, the less I fear death" - Me.

Pissed Off Janitor  posted on  2008-01-22   20:17:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Pissed Off Janitor, *Mercenaries - War Profiteers* (#1)

Remember kids: Crap weapons = More profit!

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today! The Revolution will not be televised!
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.-T Jefferson

robin  posted on  2008-01-22   20:21:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Pissed Off Janitor (#1) (Edited)

I had initially expected some form of slat armor to be installed on the vehicles, since lacking that, it would, as you say, be a bullseye for every RPG in Iraq. There were reports that they were working with some new whiz-bang slat armor (can't just use chain link fence and chicken wire, or even the same kind of slat that Stryker uses), but evidently it might not be there.

Visually, the ones I saw in the GDLS assembly plant in Alabama looked like the old 5 tons with a box on the back instead of the traditional bench and canvas Conestoga wagon cover and some extra armor on them. The center of gravity must be somewhere around eight feet up, and like an SUV, it appears that its most stable state might be wheels up.

Rivers of blood were spilled out over land that, in normal times, not even the poorest Arab would have worried his head over." Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

historian1944  posted on  2008-01-22   20:44:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: historian1944 (#3)

and like an SUV, it appears that its most stable state might be wheels up.

lol

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today! The Revolution will not be televised!
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.-T Jefferson

robin  posted on  2008-01-22   20:47:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: historian1944 (#3)

it appears that its most stable state might be wheels up.

That is to good not to be true. Do you suppose those dummies we is after in Iraq will be able to figure that out.... in, like, say, a week or so? Or less?

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2008-01-23   9:51:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: richard9151 (#5)

Most likely they figured it out the first second they saw the vehicle. That's also why I had previously tried to determine if they were putting some form of anti-RPG armor on it (and I wasn't joking about chicken wire and chain link fence, it actually does work). There have been enough people there fighting us for nearly 5 years that can figure out by looking what the probably vulnerable points to the vehicles are, and they're adjust tactics accordingly. One of the quick ways they adjust is to simply increase the quantity and/or quality of explosives used. MRAP hulls just require a bit more effort to pierce. And if you increase the explosives enough, the blast will tip it over. Then you block traffic for even longer as they work to recover the vehicle.

Rivers of blood were spilled out over land that, in normal times, not even the poorest Arab would have worried his head over." Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

historian1944  posted on  2008-01-23   10:25:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: richard9151 (#0)

Morrell said the MRAP hit a "very large, deep-buried IED"

Locals aren't seeing these major excavation projects?? Or, they aren't reporting them to their civil authorities???

The locals just stand around waiting for the stupid Americans to drive over them because it's good entertainment and we act surprised when the locals don't warn us "look out for that spot over there!". It's premeditated murder to send our troops out on pointless patrols under these conditions.

"There is a Providence that protects idiots, drunkards, children and the United States of America." - Otto von Bismarck

X-15  posted on  2008-01-23   10:56:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: historian1944 (#6)

One of the quick ways they adjust is to simply increase the quantity and/or quality of explosives

I also noticed in the story that you do not have to kill those inside to put them out of action; broken feet.

There are more bones in the feet than in the rest of the body. And, they are very slow to heal correctly, which means problems walking for extended periods of time, if they ever recover completely.

Actually, for their purposes, it may be more effective to simply injure as many soldiers as possible, rather than worry about killing them. Burden on society/government and lessons learned by the public come to mind.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2008-01-23   10:59:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: X-15 (#7)

It's premeditated murder to send our troops out on pointless patrols under these conditions.

Yes, it is. But more than that, it is moranic to volunteer to serve such premeditated murderers..... so, your point would be? That, somehow, we need to protect the morons who serve such?

Or, just the morons who don't take the opportunity to kill those you think should be warning them about the excavations?

Help me out here, as I am kind of at a loss as to how to proceed.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2008-01-23   11:04:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: richard9151 (#9)

If I'm reading between the lines correctly about our returning troops, the dim light-bulb goes off while they're over there and they realize that they've been sent on a fool's errand with their lives at stake. Yes, the locals are guilty of waiting for the fireworks to go off, but since we're in they're backyard as an uninvited guest you can't really blame them for snickering as our troops get blown up. This drives them into the arms of Ron Paul and makes them despise Jorge Boosh worse than the Iraqi's who blow them up.

"There is a Providence that protects idiots, drunkards, children and the United States of America." - Otto von Bismarck

X-15  posted on  2008-01-23   12:42:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: richard9151 (#8)

The traditional desire is to wound rather than kill, since it takes usually 3 soldiers to care for one wounded soldier, and it's demoralizing to hear someone screaming in horrible pain and asking for their mother. We were always trained that we were the only army that cared about wounded, everyone else simply leaves wounded littered all over the battefield (waiting for the indispensible nation's soldiers to assist them), but the reality has been a bit different than that.

Rivers of blood were spilled out over land that, in normal times, not even the poorest Arab would have worried his head over." Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

historian1944  posted on  2008-01-23   12:49:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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