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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: Why We Must Form a New Nation
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.apfn.net/Doc-100_bankruptcy3.htm
Published: Jul 1, 2001
Author: Bob Schulz
Post Date: 2008-01-27 15:08:27 by AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt
Keywords: None
Views: 118
Comments: 6

Why We Must Form a New Nation...

Document # 100.0.0.2.......03 of 37....

Subject: Why We Must Form a New Nation... From: "Bob Schulz" bob@givemeliberty.org

To: clmmam@digitalusa.net

Subject: Dear Government, why won't you answer?

One man hungers. A nation prays. As America watches.

On July 1, 2001, Bob Schulz, Chairman of the We The People Foundation for Constitutional Education, will begin a fast which will continue until he dies or until IRS Commissioner Charles O. Rossotti delivers to him a list of the government's experts who will meet on September 18, 2001, in a public forum, at the National Press Club in Washington DC, with tax law researchers from the tax honesty movement, to argue against the conclusions of those researchers.

This comes as a result of the government's continued evasion of opportunities the Foundation and others have provided to the government over the past two years to discuss the allegations of fraud and illegal operations of the income tax system. The allegations include the following: 1) in 1913, the 16th Amendment (the "income tax" Amendment) was fraudulently and illegally declared to be ratified by a lame-duck Secretary of State just days before leaving office; 2) there is NO LAW requiring most Americans to file a tax return, pay the federal income tax nor have the tax withheld from their earnings; 3) people who file a Form 1040 "voluntarily" waive their 5th Amendment right not to bear witness against themselves; 4) the IRS routinely violates citizens' 4th Amendment rights against illegal search and seizure, without a warrant issued by a court upon probable cause and supported by oath and affirmation; and 5) the IRS, as standard operating procedure, routinely violates citizens' due process rights in its administrative procedures and operates far outside the law.

On February 10, 1999, Joseph Banister, a Special Agent of the Criminal Investigation Division of the IRS submitted his 95-page research report to his superiors in the San Jose office of the IRS. The report contained these allegations and supporting evidence and respectfully requested some answers. Mr. Banister was concerned that he was enforcing the Internal Revenue Code as though payment was compulsory, when his research showed it to be voluntary. Instead of answers, Mr. Banister was asked to resign!

This Foundation respectfully, and properly, invited the leaders of the Executive and Legislative branches to have their most knowledgeable experts on the subject participate in academic symposiums and conferences the Foundation sponsored at the National Press Club in July and November of 1999 and in April and June of 2000. We received no response, not even an acknowledgment of the receipt of the invitations!

On April 13, 2000, while a delegation of people representing all 50 states waited outside, Mr. Banister and Mr. Schulz, and a video-ographer, met in the White House with Jason Furman, the Executive Director of the National Economic Council. He accepted, for President Clinton, a Remonstrance on the subject, he promised to have the staff of the NEC and White House lawyers and historians review the evidence, and he expressed his agreement to have the government's experts participate with Mr. Banister and other tax law researchers in the June 29, 2000 conference the Foundation was arranging for that purpose. Mr. Banister and Mr. Schulz then proceeded to a meeting in the capitol with Dr. William Koetzle, representing Speaker Hastert's policy office, and then to a meeting with Keith Hennessey, Senator Lott's policy director. They accepted the Remonstrance for Mr. Hastert and Mr. Lott, promised to have the experts at the House Ways and Means Committee and the Senate Finance Committee review the evidence, and expressed their agreement to have those experts participate in the upcoming June 29th conference. However, on June 2nd, Mr. Furman told Mr. Schulz, "The legality of the income tax is not a high priority item at the White House and we will not be participating in any conference on the subject." A similar response was received from Dr. Koetzle and Mr. Hennessey.

At a cost of $252,000, the Foundation then published full-page educational messages in USA TODAY on July 7, 2000, February 16, 2001, March 2, 2001 and March 23, 2001, featuring the photographs and names of three of the principal tax law researchers and their allegations, three former IRS agents who have come to believe the researchers are correct, and five employers who have stopped withholding the income tax from the paychecks of their employees because they also have come to believe the researchers' allegations are correct.

On April 5, 2001, the Senate Finance Committee held a hearing featuring large blow-ups of the Foundation's USA TODAY messages, mounted on easels. THE FOUNDATION WAS NOT ALLOWED TO TESTIFY AT THE HEARING. Two days prior to the hearing, Senator Grassley was quoted in the Saint Petersburg Times saying," We will not allow the We The People Foundation to testify at the hearing because their message will detract from the message we are trying to convey." The message the Committee conveyed was that those people who question the validity of the income tax laws are "tax cheats, schemers, scammers and cons. They must be kept off the Internet, and will be dealt with harshly!"

On April 9, 2001, hundreds of citizens from across the country gathered outside the main entrance of the IRS headquarters building. Three weeks earlier, on March 19th, a letter was delivered to IRS Commissioner Rossotti, letting him know that the citizens would be there and respectfully requesting that he address the group at 11:30 a.m., to let them know when his experts would be available to meet with the tax law researchers in a public forum to discuss the allegations. On April 9th, he refused to address the citizens, choosing instead to schedule an interview with a reporter from The New York Times at 11:30 that day. The Times' article ran on April 16th. In its first paragraph it said, "As a few protestors gathered in front of the Internal Revenue Service building on a warm April day, Charles O. Rossotti was cool and relaxed in his third-floor office, reflecting on his three and a half years running the agency."

On April 11, 2001 USA TODAY informed the Foundation of its decision to stop publishing the Foundation's full-page educational messages about these issues, and the government's failure to address them, because "the ads could be misleading." The Foundation offered to meet with USA TODAY's legal department to discuss the veracity of the Foundation's messages. They refused!

On May 2, 2001, the home and business of one of the employers who has stopped withholding was raided by scores of government agents, at gunpoint. As of this day, those agents have not provided a list of the charges. Nor have they specified the probable cause for the search warrant. They have, however, asked the judge who signed the warrant for 45 days to analyze the computer hard drives, papers and effects that were seized during the raid before they specify the charges and probable cause. The judge granted the request!

The tax law research provides a substantial amount of very credible evidence that since 1913 the Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches have been cooperating to deprive the People of a large percentage of the fruits of their labor by enforcing laws and regulations that are prohibited by the Constitution and which do not exist under the Internal Revenue Code. The evidence shows that the Code and regulations have intentionally been written in such a deceptive way as to obscure and obfuscate so as to give citizens the false impression that they are required to pay.

As a result of the Foundation's four messages in USA TODAY, and its other educational efforts, a growing number of people are becoming familiar with the facts of this research and now realize that Congress is prohibited by the Constitution from requiring individual citizens of the fifty states to file and pay the income tax or a social security tax as they currently operate. More and more citizens now believe that it is precisely because of the absence of proper constitutional authority that Congress has not passed any law requiring most Americans to file and pay an income tax.

So far, the IRS has responded with armed raids and with increased threats and saber rattling, but with no attempts to discuss in a rational way the allegations about the laws and regulations.

Journalists from the dominant media, including David Cay Johnston of The New York Times, have responded as apologists for the IRS by portraying individuals and employers who question the legality of the federal income tax laws as "tax cheats," even though those individuals often have a history of intelligent, rational and professional attempts to get their federal representatives and IRS officials to answer legitimate questions about the legal authority of the IRS to force the collection of the federal income tax.

Obviously, the current situation must not continue. The question is: What can a free People do when faced with a government that has apparently stepped outside the boundary drawn around its taxing power by the Constitution and by its own laws, and refuses to justify its behavior, evades all requests by citizens to answer legitimate questions, and uses a heavy handed, steel-fisted approach to enforcing the income tax -- as though its payment by most Americans was compulsory when, in fact, most citizens apparently are not liable -- and when the dominant media will not allow the people to purchase space to tell their story?

Answer: We the People must educate one another about the discrepancies between the way the Constitution and the tax law are written and the operations of the IRS. Knowledge is power. Only a well-informed citizenry will bring the federal tax policies and programs back under the control of the People and their Constitution.

Education can take many forms. Bob Schulz prays that his stand in defense of the Constitution and the rule of law, and his death, should it come to that, will help to educate citizens about the apparent discrepancy between the government's behavior in enforcing the federal tax laws and the legality of those laws, the government's recalcitrance and refusal to reconcile the discrepancy, and the importance of keeping the government within the boundaries the people have drawn around its power. His act should not be seen as one of frustration or despair, but as a measure of his devotion to our sacred constitutional principles for which so many others have laid down their lives.

On June 11, 2001, a letter will be delivered to President Bush, to the leaders of the Congress and to Commissioner Rossotti to inform them of Mr. Schulz's decision to do this. A copy of the letter can be viewed on the Foundation's web site at http://www.GiveMeLiberty.org/. Also on the web site are the Foundation's educational messages as published in USA TODAY and other educational materials on the subject.

Bob's motto is ACTA NON VERBA. His deed is part of an overall action plan put together by the Foundation under the heading of PROJECT TOTO, the goal of which is to develop a critical mass of citizens demanding answers to the questions of the tax law researchers, regarding the fraudulent and illegal operations of the federal income tax system.

For a discussion of PROJECT TOTO and what you can do to help, please visit the Foundation's web site at http://www.GiveMeLiberty.org/. _____ Bob Schulz, Chairman, We The People Foundation for Constitutional Education, Inc. 2458 Ridge Road, Queensbury, NY 12804. (518) 656-3578 Phone (518) 656-9724 Fax Bob@givemeliberty.org

>>>>Disclaimer: This document may be used as you will except: If you change anything in the text, remove my name and other Ident. You may use it without my identification also if you wish...I only ask that people read it and think...think...think. Sources/Ref's if not in the text will be found on the last page of Doc 000.0.0.1 and 000.0.6. CLMsr.<<<< We have a Constitution and our Bill of Rights (the first 10 amendments) that makes us free. Right? Then visit: http://www.trimonline.org http://www.getusout.org http://www.thenewamerican.com http://www.givemeliberty.org http://www.jbs.org Http://www.getawarrant.com Then take a look at these sites: http://www.dixierising.com http://www.dixienet.org http://www.palmetto.org http://www.southerncaucus.org http://www.spofga.org http://www.southern-style.com http://www.nca.mybravenet.com

NOTE # 1: This is the THIRD doc in a string of about 37 regarding the Income Tax, How it was illegally forced upon us, the collusion of various nation banks, including The Bank of England, the Banks of Europe, the Banks of the USA that make up the Non-Government organization known as the Fed and the bankers themselves dedicated to making this a Socialist Nation. As David Rockefeller reportedly said in 1973 when he and others formed the Trilateral Commission, "We will have this a Socialist Nation by the end of the year 2000." Well, with the help of our past Communist President, he damned well nearly did it. If Comrade Gore had been elected, it would be now! The last doc in this series is a plan that was presented to President Bush when he visited Florida recently. It was put directly into his hands. He has not acted upon it. We The People must initiate a campaign of letters, faxes, e-mails, and phone calls to him and others in our otherwise corrupt government letting them know of our displeasure. For God and Country, Chet.

NOTE # 2: [ Should you wish to be removed from my mailing list, please send a message with the word remove in the subject line. If you got this from a mail list, such as xxxxxx@xxxxxgroups.com or something like that, then it is up to the moderator or owner of the list to remove my access based upon complaints of my material, abuse, or removal of your access if you request it. ] Should you wish a copy of a numbered message (this is the Third one) that you may have missed, please e-mail me off net for a copy of it and I will be very happy to provide it. Chet. If this message was forwarded to you by a friend and you would like us to send you updates, you may use the form at the page above to subscribe to our mailing list as well. You may forward this to every member of Congress by using a Mail Blaster application available on the Internet as follows: Step 1. Access your web browser. Step 2. Type in the search block: http://www.mailblasterdot.com Step 3. Click on Send Batch E-Mail which is on the left end of the screen. Step 4. Type in your E-mail Address. Step 5. Click on Subject: Type in the subject of your document. Step 6. Click on Message: Now here you can type in your message or you can paste a previously copied file here. You can also edit your message after you finish with the message and before sending it. Step 7. Then click on select a file. Here you may click on: demhouse.txt (Socialist Democrat House Members) or, democsen.txt (Socialist Democrats Senate Members) or, newsorg.txt (Many of the "anchor" news folks have their email address here for you to use) or, rephouse.txt (Republican House of Representatives Members) or, repubsen.txt (Republican Senate Members) or, senators.txt (All Senators). Step 8. After selecting the group to receive your message then click on send batch. It will go to everyone listed in the batch. Remember: Nothing beats a letter AND a phone call. A Chester L McWhorter Sr, c/o 504 N. Brighton Rd, Lecanto, Occupied Florida. 34461. Ph: 352-344-9073. Fax: Same. E-mail: robertthebruce@naturecoast.net 03 of 37 100.0.0.2 End.

Quote: We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we [ the CFR ] need is the right major crisis and the nation[s] will accept the New World Order. End Quote. David Rockefeller: Founder and Honorary Chairman, Council of the Americas; Chairman, Americas Society; Founder, Forum of the Americas; Chairman, Emeritus, Council on Foreign Relations [CFR]; Founder and Honorary Chairman, Trilateral Commission [TC]; Chairman, The Bilderbergs. [ How does the 11 Sept 2001 attack upon our country figure into this? CLMsr ]


Upon the completion of the inside job against America on September 11, 2001, the government reneged on their agreement to meet with Bob Schulz and We The People......the right major crisis having taken place....but We The People are NOT willing to accept their Luciferian New World Order.

Isa 10:24 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD of hosts, O my people that dwellest in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian: he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt.....

www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Isa/Isa010.html#24

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#1. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#0)

Join the Ron Paul Revolution
Freedom*Peace*Prosperity

Lod  posted on  2008-01-27   15:43:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#0)

The message the Committee conveyed was that those people who question the validity of the income tax laws are "tax cheats, schemers, scammers and cons. They must be kept off the Internet, and will be dealt with harshly!"

UHH? Say WHAT?! OF COURSE THEY ARE!

14th. Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age,(See Note 15) and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

Ok, got that?

Now, look at this;

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States

What does that say? WHAT IT DOES NOT SAY IS THAT ALL PERSONS BORN IN THE UNITED STATES ARE UNITED STATES CITIZENS. What it does say is if you are SUBJECT TO THE JURISDICTION THEREOF (of the United States), you are a United States citizen.

Now, what else does it say?

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

That also infers that United States citizens have no right to question how the debt is collected, which would be a correct assessment of the facts.

Now, there is one more part important here;

The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

Congress can pass any law it wants as regards the national debt and its collection. Any law. Including permitting the president to hire a collection agency to collect enough funds to keep the interest paid on that debt; i.e., the puurpose of the Income Tax is to pay the interest on the national debt.

And, as United States citizens, you certainly DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW OR PROTEST.... ANYTHING!

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2008-01-27   16:12:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: richard9151 (#2)

oh where to start with this....it is a very sore issue with me....i tossed around some replies in my head from last night and off and on to now [well, I did sleep two hours after I took a break and went searching cordwood homes for a distraction. I've calmed down now....]

re the freakin' Red, i.e., 14th Amendment:

It was NOT ratified; it was just another of the bowel movements of the kleptocracy masquerading as "law" that has been defrauding and enslaving the American [and particularly, Christian] people from our founding as God's "city on a hill", and most particularly since the Founders cunningly crafted IN SECRET the Constitution [i.e., "contract" according to Black's] to take Christians from under God and place them under their Secular [Hu-Man, number #666 http://www.gemworld.com/US-Symbol-1dol.html ] New World Order.

THE UNCONSTITUTIONALITY OF THE 14th AMENDMENT The proposed 14th Amendment was rejected by more than one-fourth of all the States then in the Union, and it was never ratified by three-fourths of all the ... http://www.barefootsworld.net/14uncon.html

The Anti-Slavery Amendment and The Flawed Fourteenth Citizenship Amendment http://www.barefootsworld.net/dyett.html

I realize to say that makes me a TERRORIST:

An Interview with EUSTACE MULLINS..... Don't forget, the 14th amendment said, "It's illegal to challenge the national debt!"

TOM VALENTINE: Is that right!? The 14th amendment actually makes that statement? I gotta read that again.

EUSTACE MULLINS: Oh yes. It says that it's a violation to question the validity of the national debt! In other words, you say, Tom Valentine says, "Well, they create this money out of nothing!" Well you've just committed a violation of the 14th amendment by saying that!

VALENTINE: By the way, they had a meeting of law enforcement police chiefs and so on down in "Albasqueeky", New Mexico here, a few months ago. And I've just recently heard about it. And they've listed the "terrorists". And people who oppose the federal reserve, and people who oppose the income tax, and people who oppose NAFTA, are now on the list of terrorists in this country.

MULLINS: Yeah, they call it "Constitutional terrorists". www.whale.to/b/mullins3.html

I had read a while back that churches are not required to incorporate under the jurisdiction of the Federal Government and were not required to pay taxes :

"....the IRS itself has to say.

Churches Need Not Apply

In order to be considered for tax-exempt status by the IRS an organization must fill out and submit IRS Form 1023 and 1024. However, note what the IRS says regarding churches and church ministries, in Publication 557:

Some organizations are not required to file Form 1023. These include:

Churches, interchurch organizations of local units of a church, conventions or associations of churches, or integrated auxiliaries of a church, such as a men’s or women’s organization, religious school, mission society, or youth group. These organizations are exempt automatically if they meet the requirements of section 501(c)(3).

Churches Are “Automatically Tax-Exempt”

According to IRS Code § 508(c)(1)(A):

Special rules with respect to section 501(c)(3) organizations.

(a) New organizations must notify secretary that they are applying for recognition of section 501(c)(3) status.

(c) Exceptions.

(1) Mandatory exceptions. Subsections (a) and (b) shall not apply to—

(A) churches, their integrated auxiliaries, and conventions or associations of churches.

This is referred to as the "mandatory exception" rule. Thus, we see from the IRS’ own publications, and the tax code, that it is completely unnecessary for any church to apply for tax-exempt status. In the IRS’ own words a church “is automatically tax-exempt.”

Churches Are “Automatically Tax-Deductible”

And what about tax-deductibility? Doesn’t a church still need to become a 501c3 so that contributions to it can be taken as a tax deduction? The answer is no! According to IRS Publication 526:

Organizations That Qualify To Receive Deductible Contributions

You can deduct your contributions only if you make them to a qualified organization. To become a qualified organization, most organizations other than churches and governments, as described below, must apply to the IRS.

In the IRS’ own words a church “is automatically tax-deductible.”

Churches Have a Mandatory Exception To Filing Tax Returns

Not only is it completely unnecessary for any church to seek 501c3 status, to do so becomes a grant of jurisdiction to the IRS by any church that obtains that State favor. In the words of Steve Nestor, IRS Sr. Revenue Officer (ret.):

"I am not the only IRS employee who’s wondered why churches go to the government and seek permission to be exempted from a tax they didn’t owe to begin with, and to seek a tax deductible status that they’ve always had anyway. Many of us have marveled at how church leaders want to be regulated and controlled by an agency of government that most Americans have prayed would just get out of their lives. Churches are in an amazingly unique position, but they don’t seem to know or appreciate the implications of what it would mean to be free of government control." "

501C3 Tax-Exempt Status & the Church

http://thekingdomcome.com/501c3_tax_exempt_status_the_church

To force Churches to be under them would be in violation of the First Amendment' freedom of religion, and would be an establishment of religion, not to mention it would be in violation of God's law:

Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Mat/6/24.html

Now each individual Christian is a church, and Christ is our head:

1Cr 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make [them] the members of an harlot? God forbid.

1Cr 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

1Cr 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

1Cr 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/1Cr/6/15.html

1Cr 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Cr/1Cr006.html#19

There is no way a Christian can be part of Christ's body, and part of antiChrist's body: http://www.freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=70431 / http://www.gemworld.com/US-Symbol-1dol.html

1Jo 4:3 — And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/1Jo/4/3.html : http://www.noahide.com/yeshu.htm

Some additional reading the other day raised the issue that the Supreme Court has more or less ruled that Christians CANNOT be US citizens [American citizens is the wording that was used, but if CorpUSA has trademarked the name "America" then I suppose that is true....which is probably why we will have a NEW name: http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Isa/Isa062.html#4 ]. See here: http://members.aol.com/TestOath/15conclu.htm

As I am sure you are aware, to even vote in CorpUSA's elections, you must swear an oath on your state registration form, that you are indeed a member of CorpUSA, i.e., a [14th Amendment] US citizen, born or naturalized in the United States. Being CorpUSA is a corporation, how is one born in a corporation? By having your little baby foot mark your birth certificate in the CorpUSA hospital where you were born, which bears your number [i.e., mark of CorpUSA] before your little feet even touch the ground, making you born into CorpUSA's Admiralty Jurisdiction [piracy on land]. Then your birth certificate bearing your mark is bundled up with other birth certificates and AUCTIONED OFF TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER, USUALLY TO THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANKSTERS ET AL, MAKING YOU A SLAVE, WHICH CONFLICTS WITH THE 13TH AMENDMENT. [We won't even go into how the 13th Amendment replaces the original 13th Amendment CorpUSA absconded with, and if enforced would put CorpUSA ["Honor"able President; "Honor"able Congressman; "Honor"able Senator; Your "Honor", the Judge] out of busines.]

I have somewhere an article that refutes this whole notion of not being able to question the national debt on the grounds that the Amendment was referring to the debt the Banksters had thrust on us with their contrived Civil War, in which they funded both sides, as usual; and NOT to any subsequent debt.

I couldn't find it, but did run across a good website that discussed this issure, and was about to post an excerpt, when I ran across another website that was discussing the first website, and I liked their "attitude", so I'll post excerpts from both:

" U.S. Bankruptcy

The United States of America is bankrupt. Literally. The country has been bankrupt since June 5, 1933, when Franklin Roosevelt and the Congress passed and signed the relevant legislation. They may, apparently, have had good reason. There is, for example, the national debt, which according to <http://>http://disc.server.com> is now in the range of $6,338,023,309,508.97. Approximately. Or at least that’s the amount the last time I checked. (It’s probably in excess of $6.4 trillion by the time you read this.)

The saga began with the Declaration of Independence, the American Revolutionary War (the apparent winner being the united States of America), adoption of the Constitution for the United States of America, and Great Britain’s later attempts to undermine the freedom of its former new world colony by the War of 1812. With the English Crown being increasingly subject to the powers of bankers (international and otherwise), the story continues with the Civil War, the U.S. Bankruptcy, and to this day the imposition of a virtual stranglehold on the people of the world (i.e. not just the United States of America) -- the latter being perpetuated by what have come to be called, the international banksters.

Much of the details of The American Bankruptcy is addressed by Representative James Traficant, Jr. (of Ohio), who in addressing the House, entered into the United States Congressional Record (March 1, 1933, Vol. 33, page H-1303) his views on the subject.

A slightly more radical (but potentially equally accurate account) is entitled “The Demise of the American Constitutional Republic” and provides a comprehensive account of the events which led up to the U. S. Bankruptcy, as well as the implications of what has transpired before and since. Below is a condensed version of this astounding story of what might be the covert control of virtually everyone.

Keep in mind that if slaves don’t know they’re slaves, then the likelihood of insurrection is nil. That’s why as long as everything is covert, there’s little possibility of a change in the State-of-affairs. Which is why so many people and organizations are attempting to get the word out on what is really happening in the land controlled by The Wizard of Oz.

Money

It has been said that “Money is the root of all evil”. More likely, according to some, Banks are the root of all evil. Money has its place. Money, in fact, enormously simplifies commerce, allows for accumulation of wealth (thus increasing the likelihood of survival), and provides greater mobility for those not wishing to carry all their baggage with them.

Debt, on the other hand, leads to enslavement. Debt is the primary tool of the banksters, who create obligations out of thin air, and use the repayment of debt (often mathematically impossible) as the means to control the debtors. It has been said that if you borrow money from a bank, the bank owns you. True. But if you borrow enough money from the bank, then you own the bank! (Because if you don’t repay the bank, they go down the drain.)....." [hmmmmmmmm........]

http://www.halexandria.org/dward282.htm

"U.S. BANKRUPTCY, Emergency Powers, the 14th Amendment, Citizens as debt collateral, and FDR WAS A F%CKING SKUNK! Quote

U.S. BANKRUPTCY, Emergency Powers, the 14th Amendment, Citizens as debt collateral, and FDR WAS A F%CKING SKUNK who sold us all down the river in 1933!

This article pieces it all together better than anything else I've seen.

Excerpt:

"Through paying interest to the Federal Reserve Corporation in gold, the US Treasury became progressively depleted of its gold. America’s gold certificates, coin, and bullion were continually shipped off to the coffers of various European Banks and Power Elite. In 1933, when the Treasury was drained and the debt was larger than ever (a financial condition known as “insolvency”), Franklin Roosevelt proclaimed the bankruptcy of the United States. Every 14th-Amendment “citizen of the United States” [everything was already set up!] was pledged as an asset to finance the Chapter 11 re-organization expenses and pay interest in perpetuity to the creditors (i.e. the Federal Reserve Bankers) on the “national debt” (“which shall not be questioned”).

With the Government’s bankruptcy, “law” became “public policy”, i.e. Federal Reserve Reinsurance policy. Now operating exclusively within the jurisdiction of corporate limited-liability insurance, the Federal Reserve switched its requirements 180° and foreclosed the possibility to pay interest in gold, requiring payments on the debt and reorganization to be made with FRNs. Ownership of gold by the bankrupted, conquered citizens, made into the enemy by the Amendatory Act of March 9, 1933, was made “illegal” by Franklin Roosevelt’s Gold Proclamation (The Decree). Thereafter, the Bankers set about confiscating as much of the private gold as possible, gold that hadn’t already been shipped to the European Federal Reserve Banks as interest payments on the FRNs printed into circulation. After 1933, FRNs became increasingly unbacked, until Richard Nixon closed the silver window and removed the final vestige of backing in 1968.

By being forced to function only as a citizen of the United States, everyone was foreclosed from access to genuine law, substance, sovereignty, real law, and constitutional due process, confined to operating in law and commerce only within the Banker’s private commercial, military, limited-liability jurisdiction. Americans’ survival came to depend on acting as if they were “citizens of the United States” and inseparably united with and bound to what is called their “Straw Man”.

A person’s “Straw Man” is their ALL-CAPITAL LETTERS NAME. This is the core of the situation. It revolves around the meaning and significance of the words used in the acts involving them, especially the name. A few crucial facts concerning the name are:

1. In law, every word, letter, punctuation, and capitalization utilized in legal documents and proceedings has legal import and significance. Law means the rules revolving around the use of deadly force. The ultimate legal consequence of every word used in law is life and death. This fact imparts to law its unique importance. Law is not simply another academic pursuit, but a field bearing on one’s very survival.

2. A person’s name is a “flag” per the Law of the Flag, proclaiming their rights, standing in law, applicable law, and jurisdiction. When set forth in upper- and lower-case letters, in accord with the established rules of English grammar, a name is called a “true name”. In law, such a name signifies the real person, the living, flesh-and-blood, sentient being with free will, and unbounded spiritual dimension, absolute (unalienable) rights, full standing in law, and access to the substance and content of genuine law. When set forth in all capital letters, both law and English grammar mandate that such an assemblage of letters be considered something entirely different than a true name and all the content that a true name signifies. Such deception [note: FRAUD] now comprises the foundational legal device used to control not only America, but the population of the entire world."

The entire piece is here: [link to http://www.halexandria.org]

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Re: U.S. BANKRUPTCY, Emergency Powers, the 14th Amendment, Citizens as debt collateral, and FDR WAS A F%CKING SKUNK! Quote

The real insight is that all this gold/money was OWED to the FRS by the US Treasury as the US Treasury had borrowed and over borrowed from the FRS. FDR paid an "honest" debt to the FRS.

We all need to get a much better grasp of the various bankrupcies the USA has been through since 1776. At some point the history of it all needs to be traced back to the very start of colonial Britian and the developement of the British East India Company, which had been the charter company that colonized the majority of the 13 Colonies. You have to start at least that early in the historical studies. [see http://greatreddragon.com Genesis 15:13-14/Gal. 3:16-29].

Our government absolutely hate to tell the Citizen that the Government is bankrupt, and yet when it does it usually falls on denying deaf ears.

FDR had nothing to do with the establishing of the 14th Amendment. But if he was to defend and uphold the US Constitution he also had to stand and uphold the 14th as well.

The main shunkiness is the turning of US Citizens into the debt collateral as if the Citizens were cattle to be raided and traded. This is a brand of the type of international banker financier oligrachy of which the British East India Company was a huge part of.

Many people mistakingly think the British Empire died at the end of WWII, it did not, when Truman took over the British Empire of the international Anglo-Dutch banking cartel recovered its holding and went to the use of PsyOps to maintain its hold.

FDR had the goal of destroying the British Empire once and for all time, Truman reversed that goal and helped to rebuild it.

But the War Powers Act of 1933 which happened under FDR's presidency and which He never vetoed, is a very telling thing to me about FDR. The US Congress was working on repealing the whole of the War Powers Act of 1933 when the Clinton - Lewinsky thing happened and Congress got side tracked into impeachment hearings and never did get the 1933 War Powers Act removed from the United States Code.

People want to talk this campaign season about the Issues, and yet this most dire issue of the War Powers Act of 1933 being removed from the USC, has never been brought to the forfront of the public debate over "issues" except by some the MSM have labeled as Lunatic Fringe Kooks.

It is time, America, to start listening to these Lunatic Fringed Kooks.

-------------------------

Re: U.S. BANKRUPTCY, Emergency Powers, the 14th Amendment, Citizens as debt collateral, and FDR WAS A FUCKING SKUNK! Quote

Thanks for the thoughtful response, 330782.

You and I are in complete agreement that "the main skunkiness is the turning of US Citizens into the debt collateral."

So skunky in fact, that I'm going to repost the relevant section once more:

"Franklin Roosevelt proclaimed the bankruptcy of the United States. Every 14th-Amendment “citizen of the United States” [everything was already set up!] was pledged as an asset to finance the Chapter 11 re-organization expenses and pay interest in perpetuity to the creditors (i.e. the Federal Reserve Bankers) on the “national debt” (“which shall not be questioned”)."

Read that and try your best not to say HOLY F%CKING SHIT.

---------------------------------

Re: U.S. BANKRUPTCY, Emergency Powers, the 14th Amendment, Citizens as debt collateral, and FDR WAS A F%CKING SKUNK! Quote

Well THANK YOU... It only took 70 f'n years for someone to say so.

------------------------------------

Re: U.S. BANKRUPTCY, Emergency Powers, the 14th Amendment, Citizens as debt collateral, and FDR WAS A FUCKING SKUNK! Quote

Franklin Delano Roosevelt (The "Penguin") was a Communist traitor who would have dragged his vile carcass over broken glass to [......deleted]

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message490521/pg1

I liked this somewhat humorous rant on the 14th as well:

"....It’s very telling that so few people ever discuss one of the most creepy provisions in the Fourteenth Amendment, in Section 4:

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned."

Shall not be questioned? Shall not be questioned?

Murray Rothbard, G. Edward Griffin and many others have written books questioning the validity of the national debt – I guess they’re all unreconstructed criminals! Indeed, the best solution to the federal debt, as Rothbard unconstitutionally pointed out, would be to cancel it. Such a solution has no hope when the Fourteenth Amendment is law, and America cannot be a free country if the "validity" of the federal government to borrow from bankers and promise to steal from the people to pay back the debts "shall not be questioned."

Refocusing on the more commonly known sections of the Fourteenth Amendment, it is certainly true that when state governments "deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law," they commit a terrible crime. Within our states, and as Americans, we should help each other fight off local oppression. People can help each other in other states voluntarily. If a state does something really bad – let’s say it erects death camps – then Americans should, and I think would, ship arms, soldiers, and assistance to those in need. Federal officials can help the privately organized resistance, if they want, but perhaps they’d have to take time off to do so. If they’re not willing to help stop Florida death camps in their free time, perhaps they can’t be trusted to protect us from New Jersey wage controls while they’re on the clock.

Generally speaking, depending on the federal government to stop state oppression is tantamount to hoping the pot will stop the kettle from being black......."

Libertarian Amendments to the US Constitution

by Anthony Gregory http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory19.html

Shall not be questioned? Shall not be questioned?

Pardon me, but isn't that a violation of "free speech" as put forth in the First Amendment? Isn't it a maxim of law that the Constitution cannot contradict itself?

Here's a related article on the fraudulent 16th Amendment, which also contradicts the [original] Constitution :

"....* The Sixteenth Amendment gave Congress no new power of taxation. Further, the U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly defined "income" as gain severed from capital.

Words of Art

As you may know, a statute must contain definitions of important words and terms; otherwise, it is "void for vagueness." In a statute, a word means precisely what the statute says that it means. A word, in a statute, can have a meaning very different from the "plain English," common-sense meaning of the same word. In legal parlance, such specially defined words are called "words of art." In the attached documentation, I list many of the "words of art" used in the Internal Revenue Code. Suffice it to say here, that if words like "state," "individual," etc. meant in Title 26 what they mean in ordinary English, the whole statute would be blatantly unconstitutional. Title 26 is constitutional, because these terms have been redefined as "words of art," so as not to run afoul of the Constitution and case law. Most of these definitions are contained in Title 26 itself, but some are contained in previous editions of the Internal Revenue Code, or in other Titles (Titles 4 and 5 being prominent examples).

Another thing to remember is that the word "include," in statutory construction, means only those things referred to, unless the words "including, but not limited to" are used.

Federal jurisdiction

As we will remember from our civics classes, the Constitution gave Congress exclusive, absolute jurisdiction over Federal territories, including Washington, D.C. The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that Congress is not bound by the Constitution when legislating for these areas (see Hooven v. Evatt 324 U.S. 674). What many of us do not realize is that, by signing 1040 forms and Social Security applications, we unwittingly declare ourselves "Federal citizens" subject to the untrammeled authority of Congress. Since nobody told us this when we signed these documents, we may, at common law, legally rescind all such signatures on grounds of constructive fraud and non-disclosure of pertinent facts. I have done so in my Affidavit.

Also, if you enter a plea in Federal Court, you are placing yourself under the jurisdiction of that court, whether you really belong there or not.

Because of the way "words of art" are defined in Title 26, anyone not living in Washington, D.C. or a Federal territory or enclave is a "foreign person" and a "non-immigrant, non-resident alien" for purposes of the Title. This does not mean that one was born in another country, or lives abroad. It means that one is not a "Federal citizen." After all, the states are "foreign" to one another and to the Federal government (see Black's Law Dictionary). That is why I filed a W-8 form with you. That is also why I filed a statement "In Lieu of W-4." The W-4 is the wrong form for non-Federal citizens, and the IRS will impose a $500 fine upon those who use it to claim EXEMPT status.

The 16th Amendment

Doubtless, you were also taught in your government-controlled schools that the 16th Amendment gave Congress the power to lay a direct, unapportioned tax upon compensation for labor. That is dead wrong. I am sorry to have to attack well-established belief systems, but the facts "are what they are." The U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that the 16th Amendment conferred no such power. After all, the 16th Amendment did not specifically repeal the original taxing clauses of the Constitution, and the Constitution cannot contradict itself! Therefore, the Court has ruled that the Amendment was simply a "perfecting" amendment (see Brushaber v. Union Pacific Railroad Co. 240 U.S. 1). Further, the Court has also repeatedly ruled that compensation for labor in the 50 states is property upon which an "excise tax" cannot be imposed (see Eisner v. Macomber 252 U.S. 189).

Once again, none of these rulings apply within Federal territories. To repeat: the 26 USC (A) §1 graduated income tax is constitutional because it is limited to "Federal citizens" and "Federal areas" where Congress is not bound by the Constitution and may legislate as it pleases.

"State" vs. state

Just as there are two "United States," so there are two of every state. The Buck Act (incorporated in Title 4 USC) redefined "the States" as "words of art" to include (only) Federal enclaves within the 50 states, legally ceded by the state legislatures to the Government. So, when the Internal Revenue Code says that such-and-such a provision applies to "all the States," it is right! What most people don't realize is that this does not mean North Carolina, California, etc. -- it means "Federal enclaves within the 50 states."

Conclusion

If you are somewhat confused after reading this for the first time, do not feel bad. Confusion is the normal response to new information that challenges one's fundamental view of reality. Yes, I know; my arguments directly contradict everything you were ever taught. The largest obstacle is not legal but psychological. However, in law, FACT and TRUTH are sovereign, and, in the end, all opposition (legal, psychological or otherwise) must yield to their resistless sway. "

http://www.mind-trek.com/practicl/tl16h.htm

-----------------------

Because of the way "words of art" are defined in Title 26, anyone not living in Washington, D.C. or a Federal territory or enclave is a "foreign person" and a "non-immigrant, non-resident alien" for purposes of the Title. This does not mean that one was born in another country, or lives abroad. It means that one is not a "Federal citizen." After all, the states are "foreign" to one another and to the Federal government (see Black's Law Dictionary).

Now we see what it is really about:

Christians are citizens of Heaven:

Hbr 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker [is] God.

Hbr 11:16 But now they desire a better [country], that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Hbr/11/10.html

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Hbr/11/16.html

"prepared for them a city"? hmmmmmm..... Who else said that?

Jhn 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Jhn 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.

"receive you unto myself"? hmmmm.....where else did I hear that?

Exd 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and [how] I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

What is this "heavenly city" whose builder and maker is God?

Zec 2:1 ¶ I lifted up mine eyes again, and looked, and behold a man with a measuring line in his hand.

Zec 2:2 Then said I, Whither goest thou? And he said unto me, To measure Jerusalem, to see what [is] the breadth thereof, and what [is] the length thereof.

Zec 2:3 And, behold, the angel that talked with me went forth, and another angel went out to meet him,

Zec 2:4 And said unto him, Run, speak to this young man, saying, Jerusalem shall be inhabited [as] towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein:

Zec 2:5 For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.

Zec 2:7 Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest [with] the daughter of Babylon.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Zec/Zec002.html#4

Mat 13:36 ¶ Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];

["children of the wicked one"? hmmm.... where have I heard that before: 2Sa 7:10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime, See also Ezekiel 34:11-13/John 10.]

Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;....

Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear......

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat013.html

So that is what it boils down to : the 14th Amendment was meant to further enslave God's people to Satan's people. As Cornwallis said to George Washington : A HOLY WAR will now begin against America..... A holy war God will win: Psalm 2; Ezekiel 17:1-10/John 15:1-2/Matthew 15:13; Micah 4.

Eze 34:27 And the tree of the field shall yield her fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase, and they shall be safe in their land, and shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I have broken the bands of their yoke, and delivered them out of the hand of those that served themselves of them.....

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Eze/Eze034.html#27

To make a long story short, the 14th Amendment will not stand, and it is Time to form a new nation:

http://thechristmasconspiracy.com/

President Wilson signed the Federal Reserve Act on December 23, 1913. History proved that on that day, the Constitution ceased to be the governing covenant of the American people, and our liberties were handed over to a small group of international bankers. - Secrets of the Federal Reserve by Eustace Mullins

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2008-01-28   11:12:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#3)

It was NOT ratified; it was just another of the bowel movements of the kleptocracy masquerading as "law" that has been defrauding and enslaving the American [and particularly, Christian] people from our founding as God's "city on a hill", and most particularly since the Founders cunningly crafted IN SECRET the Constitution [i.e., "contract" according to Black's] to take Christians from under God and place them under their Secular [Hu-Man, number #666 http://www.gemworld.com/US-Symbol-1dol.html ] New World Order.

Yes. You are correct, and as I am sure you are aware after reading everything I post, I am well aware of all that you posted. I have written about it for many, many years.

That does not change the facts, and, if you doubt that, start asking the people in 4um if they are proud of being United States citizens. Go ahead.... do that, and things begin to become clearer.

The problem is not with the government; the problem is with the people. It always has been.

Someone commented and then asked me a question a short time ago in one of my posts. They commented that I probably had some ideas about soverignity and if I would be willing to share that info.

I replied yes, and no. I am no longer willing to share such knowledge simply because most will not accept the first premise; there is no such thing as soverignity for man. I have a King. This earth belongs to Him; NOT TO ME.

Once you accept that, then most of the non-sense falls away, and it matters not one whit what the fools in Washington, DC, do, for they are bringing judgement down upon their own heads.

Man simply does not have the ability to rule himself. That is the first lesson that we are placed here to learn. I have learned it, and, adjusted my life accordingly... in my imperfect way.

The simple answer to your original post is that we have no authority to form a new nation, cause it is already all around us in His Kingdom. And everything I see going on is simply confirmation of Armageddon/Revelations in the Bible, but not many wish to hear that either. More is the pity.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2008-01-28   11:28:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: richard9151 (#4)

The simple answer to your original post is that we have no authority to form a new nation, cause it is already all around us in His Kingdom.

richard, yesterday you posted a lot of links to Dominionist material. Do you not believe in any of it? God's kingdom is co-existing with Satan's kingdom: it's the mustard seed vs. the Leaven of the Pharisees and Herod, the wheat vs. the tares. There are a lot of passages that suggest it is a joint effort between us and God to "eradicate" the tares.

Zec 2:7 Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest [with] the daughter of Babylon.

Zec 2:8 ¶ For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.

Zec 2:9 For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me.

Zec 2:10 ¶ Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.

Zec 2:11 And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee. .....

Isa 52:2 Shake thyself from the dust; arise, [and] sit down, O Jerusalem: loose thyself from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion.

Mic 4:10 Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt go [even] to Babylon; there shalt thou be delivered; there the LORD shall redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies.

Mic 4:11 Now also many nations are gathered against thee, that say, Let her be defiled, and let our eye look upon Zion.

Mic 4:12 But they know not the thoughts of the LORD, neither understand they his counsel: for he shall gather them as the sheaves into the floor.

Mic 4:13 Arise and thresh, O daughter of Zion: for I will make thine horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass: and thou shalt beat in pieces many people: and I will consecrate their gain unto the LORD, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth.

Phl 4:13 — I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Jhn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

Jhn 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Jhn 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Phl/4/13.html

2Cr 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

2Cr 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

2Cr 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/2Cr/2Cr010.html#4

I would rather Christ come back today and deal with them; it would be so much easier, but what if He left it to us, to do His work with His help, like He has done the past 2000 years to advance His kingdom? Things were pretty bad in the first century. What if Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and Paul and all the rest had sat back and silent and just waited....we'd all probably be eating each other by now. I'd like to sit back, but then I'm afraid He'll come back and declare me an unprofitable servant: http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat025.html#30 . You've got a lot of talent richard; don't blow it now.

And everything I see going on is simply confirmation of Armageddon/Revelations in the Bible, but not many wish to hear that either.

I am of the opinion that most of Revelation already happened. True, there could be double prophecies, since all scripture is given for example. OTH, I think the PTB have MADE it look like Armageddon/Revelation....their father is a great counterfeiter of Christ. I DO believe we are seeing Ezekiel 38-39/Rev. 20:7-10 being played out. Whether it is to be entirely spiritual or whether God steps in at last and it gets very bloody, I don't know [but I suspect the latter], but I can't sit and wait around for it; wouldn't make me much different than the rapture cult: unprofitable.

BTW, did you catch David Chilton's scholarly DAYS OF VENGEANCE at that link you gave? Great partial preterist explanation of the Book of Revelation. I highly recommend it.

President Wilson signed the Federal Reserve Act on December 23, 1913. History proved that on that day, the Constitution ceased to be the governing covenant of the American people, and our liberties were handed over to a small group of international bankers. - Secrets of the Federal Reserve by Eustace Mullins

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2008-01-28   12:11:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#5)

God's kingdom is co-existing with Satan's kingdom:

This is not correct, my friend. They can not exist side-by-side. God has permitted Satan to rule on this earth to serve as an example to us, and to the other angels who did not rebel, that we, and they, have no ability to rule outselves.

Satan's rule on the earth will last until the return of Jesus Christ. There is nothing that we can do about that; it is not changeable by us, and it serves God's purposes.

Satan's rule is intended to separate the wheat from the Tares, this is correct, but it is we who do the separating, by and through the choices that we make in our daily lives.

But until people make the choice that God knows best, and start leaving the decision making up to God, we will fail and fail and fail. That means putting His Law first, and forgoing the traditions of men. (hint hint)

Dominionist material. Define this please.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2008-01-28   12:55:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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