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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: What is insurance...... anyway?
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Feb 1, 2008
Author: Richard
Post Date: 2008-02-01 10:19:41 by richard9151
Ping List: *Agriculture-Environment*     Subscribe to *Agriculture-Environment*
Keywords: None
Views: 209
Comments: 17

Some time ago, I mentioned something about insurance. I have left the subject alone, largely, because so many in this 4um are convinced that, somehow, and against all reason, the government needs to do something about 'their' insurance.

What delusions! Give me liberty.... and some insurance on the side, willya?

Yesterday, I posted Plan B, which is saying the same thing, basically, that I have been saying in the 4um for some months; all of you want Dr. Paul to save you...... from yourselves. And by the way, solve the budget crisis, balance the budget, bring back sound money, defeat the Neo-Cons, cut off Israel, tame the Federal Reserve Bank, and, do all of this without much change in Congress, cause we all know that ain't gonna happen!

One man, to change a nation. More like a god than a man. Oh, and by the way, be sure, Dr. Paul, to do something about that national insurance for health care.

Freedom is not possible unless and until the people.... note this well; THE PEOPLE! Have control of their local republic. And if you are curious as to what that means, I will be putting up a post about it shortly, today!

And no one can have a repuplic unless and until they accept personel responsibility for their own health, retirement, work, and etc.

Which brings us back to; what is insurance, and, why does the 'government' insist that everyone has it?! After all, those guys from the government, they is only here to hep us, right?


What is Social Security, anyway?

"The Social Security system may be accurately described as a form of Social Insurance, enacted pursuant to Congress' power to 'spend money in aid of the "general welfare",' Helvering vs. Davis [301 U.S., at 640]."

"My judgment accordingly is, that policies of insurance are within... the admiralty and maritime jurisdiction of the United States." Federal Judge Story, in DELOVIO VS. BOIT, 7 Federal Cases, #3776, at page 444 (1815). (This case has never been overturned, because it is impossible to change this fact of law. All insurance is of Admiralty-Maritime jurisdiction under international law, and a policy of insurance is considered prima fascia evidence that you are a United States citizen. The benefit of passing off your liability for carelessness onto some one else through “insurance” is considered a privilege by the government, and is known as limited liability. - Richard)

So go ahead, sign up for more insurance, insure yourself to the max, and then wonder why you have no freedoms. Oh, and by the way, I posted the following some time ago, but this is to put everything into perspective;

Why Admiralty jurisdiction?

"This power is as extensive upon land as upon water. The Constitution makes no distinction in that respect. And if the admiralty jurisdiction, in matters of contract and tort which the courts of the United States may lawfully exercise on the high seas, can be extended to the lakes under the power to regulate commerce, it can with the same propriety and upon the same construction, be extended to contracts and torts on land when the commerce is between different States. And it may embrace also the vehicles and persons engaged in carrying it on (my note - remember what the law of the flag said when you receive benefits from the king.) It would be in the power of Congress to confer admiralty jurisdiction upon its courts, over the cars engaged in transporting passengers or merchandise from one State to another, and over the persons engaged in conducting them, and deny to the parties the trial by jury. Now the judicial power in cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction, has never been supposed to extend to contracts made on land and to be executed on land. But if the power of regulating commerce can be made the foundation of jurisdiction in its courts, and a new and extended admiralty jurisdiction beyond its heretofore known and admitted limits, may be created on water under that authority, the same reason would justify the same exercise of power on land." -- Propeller Genessee Chief et al. v. Fitzhugh et al. 12 How. 443 (U.S. 1851)

Oh, yes indeed. Gimme more of that old fashioned insurance, please.

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#1. To: richard9151, robin, Jethro Tull, all (#0)

"Gimme more of that old fashioned insurance, please."

OK, lets get it on. Being disabled and knowing what a life saver insurance is, just let me start by

saying even Dr Paul says promises have been made to people. Those promises should be kept to those

in dependence, but to let others opt out. A gradual change. We MUST retain our humanity.

But then even regular private insurance HAS to change.I am a HUGE advocate of decoupling insurance

from the workplace.It makes our products and sevices cheaper and solves lots of problems.

castletrash  posted on  2008-02-01   10:35:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: castletrash (#1)

A gradual change. We MUST retain our humanity.

But then even regular private insurance HAS to change.I am a HUGE advocate of decoupling insurance from the workplace.

It would, but what will Big Insurance do with pre-existing conditions and annual reviews where they deny coverage to someone with pre-existing conditions?

At least in employer-paid groups, they are not allowed to do that.

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today! The Revolution will not be televised!
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.-T Jefferson

robin  posted on  2008-02-01   10:38:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: castletrash, robin (#1)

Being disabled and knowing what a life saver insurance is

Really? So I suppose that people just died before there was insurance to limit their liability. Right? Or, did the people have other options? Ones that did not include being in slavery to the banks and insurance companies (same people, by the way)?

Start here;

http://www.hisholychurch.org/news/articles/planb.html

Plan B, The Essential Qualities of a Free Society

You can not limit your liability, enter into foreign jurisdictions (Admiralty) and retain ANY freedom. I would expect that should be something obvious to anyone who cares to think the subject through.

But then, freedom IS ONLY for those who accept personal responsibility. By the way, I call the Bible my Manual of Personal Responsibility. Interesting little tidbit there.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2008-02-01   10:51:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: robin (#2)

".employer-paid groups.."

heres the reasons no employer based groups

1. it raises cost of products and services, makes us uncompetitive globally 2. lay off ......lose your insuance 3. fired .........loose your insurance 4 hubby gets new trophy wife, you're dumped.....loose your insurance 5. Employers costs raised, passed to you......you can't resonably shop around for better deal 6. You actually get too sick to work.....loose your insurance 7 The insurance gets dropped by your employer as too expensive...no insurance,you lose $ because you now pay full cost 8 working spouse dies ....loose your insurance

et , etc. ....its justs bad way to do things,should be individual or by pofessional groups or something

castletrash  posted on  2008-02-01   10:59:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: castletrash (#4)

I agree, my concern is that private insurance w/o an employer group, Big Insurance can deny coverage. That must change, IMO. Along with the huge increases every year.

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today! The Revolution will not be televised!
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.-T Jefferson

robin  posted on  2008-02-01   11:03:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: richard9151 (#3)

"just died before there was insurance to limit their liability "

Yeah they did, still do ...say when a child can't get transplant...cause insuance is not there, i've seen it.

You have no idea what sums are involved. I cost a good $50,000 year to keep alive lets see your

average HSA handle that..and its easilly going to double for me alone in the near future. And

buddy I' m far fom dead....just not real mobile. If not insurance than what, suicide ?

your bible like that does it?

castletrash  posted on  2008-02-01   11:10:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: castletrash (#1)

Admiralty jurisdiction

CT, when Richard begins to teeter down this wacky, "patriot" road, run, don't walk to the nearest exit. Of course anyone who has paid into SS deserves the disability component of it if, god forbid, they need it. I have no idea what Ricardo receives 'free' down Mexico way, but his lectures to Americans have become tedious.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-02-01   11:17:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: robin (#5)

"...deny coverage.....huge increases...."

So regulations have to still exist. But as you know I still believe if we are to remain a humane

country, at least a step above third world, that the cost of catastrophic care has to be borne nationally

in order to make regular insurance affordable to all. People who say putting a couple thousand into an

HSA each year is enough just don't see the numbers. My gall blader removal ,with minor complcations,

cost $30,000. Thats not Catastrophic, but how many years of HSA would be needed to afford that?

castletrash  posted on  2008-02-01   11:23:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Jethro Tull, castletrash (#7)

After watching the Obama/Hillary hugging contest last night, I'm sure we will be experiencing the worst possible bloated universal health care possible. Nothing efficient like EU and Scandinavia have, it will make a few new billionaires.

Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today! The Revolution will not be televised!
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.-T Jefferson

robin  posted on  2008-02-01   11:24:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Jethro Tull (#7)

"..... run, don't walk to the nearest exit..."

Did not realize he comes to school in the short bus...never mind.

castletrash  posted on  2008-02-01   11:28:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: castletrash (#6)

If not insurance than what

That is the question, is it not? Why was insurance roped into the admiralty jurisdiction? Why are not other solutions talked about?

I have not had insurance for more than 20 years.... ummm, probably 25 years.

And that includes car insurance. BUT, did that mean that my car had no coverage?

Of course not. I belonged to a Christian organization known as the Puget Sound Agriculture Society, where we paid a fee per car, about $250 a year (no, of course not! No damage coverage! Jeez! Get with it!), and signed a contract that indemified anyone who a part of the Society from loss. If there happened to be a big loss, all would chip in to make it up.

Did the government like it? State or federal? Of course not, BUT IT WAS LEGAL!

This is the problem with people, and esp. people like Tull, no one has any answers except the government.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.

richard9151  posted on  2008-02-01   11:51:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Puget Sound Agriculture Society (#11)

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together

Puget Sound Agriculture Society

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-02-01   12:15:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: richard9151 (#11)

"I belonged to a Christian organization known as the Puget Sound Agriculture Society, where we paid a fee per car, about $250 a year .,"

Yeah thats fine, as I stated above, but be real sure your organization has the funds and numbers to

cover you. One really good multi car accident could leave several young people crippled for life,

and then your talking millions of dollars for life time care. It's all about the HUGE numbers. A

lot of little aspects of care, reasonably priced, over long periods of time...costs millions.

No way to get past that.

castletrash  posted on  2008-02-01   12:15:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: castletrash (#10)

Did not realize he comes to school in the short bus...never mind.

That's the President of the United States you're thinking of.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-02-01   12:17:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: robin (#9)

Didn't Hillary's secret HC plan in '93 include tons of Big Insurance input? I watched some of that slugfest l/n and couldn't tell WTF Obama would change.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-02-01   12:22:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#14)

The more i see and hear this election cycle the more sure I am that this Country needs

a national fleet of those little busses too !

castletrash  posted on  2008-02-01   12:40:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Jethro Tull, robin (#15)

"..include tons of Big Insurance input...."

Doesn't make a difference who wins (except Paul). THEY have noticed we don't like the war anymore,

and will now use National healthcare to move our money around and into their pockets.

castletrash  posted on  2008-02-01   12:53:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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