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Title: New study from Pilots for 9 11 Truth - No Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon
Source:
Pilots for 9/11 Truth
URL Source: http://rinf.com/alt-news/911-truth/ ... dy-raises-more-questions/2351/
Published: Feb 2, 2008
Author: staff
Post Date: 2008-02-01 20:55:16 by Uncle Bill
Keywords: None
Views: 1839
Comments: 89
A study of the black box data provided by the government to Pilots for 9/11 Truth has confirmed the previous findings of Scholars for 9/11 Truth that no Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon on 9/11. We have had four lines of proof that no Boeing 757 hit the building, said James Fetzer, founder of Scholars for 9/11 Truth. This new study by Pilots drives another nail into a coffin of lies told the American people by The 9/11 Commission: The new society, an international organization of pilots and aviation professionals, petitioned the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) under the Freedom of Information Act and obtained its 2002 report on American Airlines Flight 77, a Boeing 757 that, according to the official account, hit the ground floor of the Pentagon after it skimmed over the lawn at 500 mph plus, taking out a series of lamp posts in the process. The pilots not only obtained the flight data but created a computer animation to demonstrate what it told them. According to the report issued by Pilots for 9/11 Truth (http://pilotsfor911truth.org/), there are major differences between the official account and the flight data: a. The NTSB Flight Path Animation approach path and altitude does not support official events. b. All Altitude data shows the aircraft at least 300 feet too high to have struck the light poles. c. The rate of descent data is in direct conflict with the aircraft being able to impact the light poles and be captured in the Dept of Defense 5 Frames video of an object traveling nearly parallel with the Pentagon lawn. d. The record of data stops at least one second prior to official impact time. e. If data trends are continued, the aircraft altitude would have been at least 100 feet too high to have hit the Pentagon. As Robert Balsamo, co-founder of Pilots for 9/11 Truth, observes, The information in the NSTB documents does not support, and in some instances factually contradicts, the official government position that American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon on the morning of September 11, 2001. The study was signed by fifteen professional pilots with extensive military and commercial carrier experience. They have made their animation, Pandora’ss Box: Chapter 2, available to the public at http://video.google.com/videosearchq=Pandora’ss+Black+Box%3A+Chapter+2 . According to James H. Fetzer, founder of Scholars for 9/11 Truth (http://911scholars.org), this result fits into the broader picture of what happened at the Pentagon that day. We have developed four lines of argument that prove–conclusively, in my judgment–that no Boeing 757 hit the building. The most important evidence to the contrary has been the numerous eyewitness reports of a large commercial carrier coming toward the building. If the NTSB data is correct, then the Pilot’ss study shows that a large aircraft headed toward the building but did not impact with it. It swerved off and flew above the Pentagon. Fetzer, who retired last June after 35 years of teaching courses in logic, critical thinking, and scientific reasoning, expressed pleasure over the Pilot’ss results, which, he said, has neatly resolved the most pressing issue that remained about the Pentagon. He added, We have previously developed several lines of argument, each of which proves that no Boeing 757 hit the building, including these four: (1) The hit point at the Pentagon was too small to accommodate a 100-ton airliner with a 125-foot wingspan and a tail that stands 44 feet above the ground; the kind and quantity of debris was wrong for a Boeing 757: there were no wings, no fuselage, no seats, no bodies, no luggage, no tail! Not even the engines were recovered, and they are practically indestructible. (2) Of an estimate 84 videotapes of the crash, the three that have been released by the Pentagon do not show a Boeing 757 hitting the building, as even Bill O’sReilly admitted when one was shown on The Factor. At 155 feet, the plane was more than twice as long as the 77-foot Pentagon is high and should have been visible. There are indications of a much smaller plane, but not a Boeing 757. (3) Indeed, the aerodynamics of flight would have made the official trajectory–flying more than 500 mph barely above ground level–physically impossible, because of the accumulation of a massive pocket of compressed gas (air) beneath the fuselage; and if it had come it at an angle instead, it would have created a massive crater; but there is no crater and the official trajectory is impossible. (4) Flying low enough to impact with the ground floor would have meant that the enormous engines were plowing the ground and creating massive furrows; but there are no massive furrows. The smooth, unblemished surface of the Pentagon lawn thus stands as a smoking gun proving the official trajectory cannot be sustained. Members of Scholars have contributed to a new book that analyses the government’ss official account, according to which 19 Islamic fundamentalists hijacked four commercial airliners, outfoxed the most sophisticated air-defense system in the world, and committed these atrocities under the control of a man in a cave in Afghanistan. Entitled, THE 9/11 CONSPIRACY (2007), it includes photographs of the hit point before and after the upper floors collapsed, the crucial frame from the released videos, and views of the clear, smooth, and unblemished lawn. Don’st be taken in by photos showing damage to the second floor or those taken after the upper floors collapsed, which happened 20-30 minutes later, Fetzer said. In fact, debris begins to show up on the completely clean lawn in short order, which might have been dropped from a C-130 that was circling above the Pentagon or placed there by men in suits who were photographed carrying debris with them. The most striking is a piece from the fuselage of a commercial airliner, which is frequently adduced as evidence. James Hanson, a newspaper reporter who earned his law degree from the University of Michigan College of Law, has traced that debris to an American Airlines 757 that crashed in a rain forest above Cali, Columbia in 1995. It was the kind of slow-speed crash that would have torn off paneling in this fashion, with no fires, leaving them largely intact. Fetzer has been so impressed with his research he has invited Hanson to submit his study to Scholars for consideration for publication on its web site, 911scholars.org. The Pentagon has become a kind of litmus test for rationality in the study of 9/11, Fetzer said. Those who persist in maintaining that a Boeing 757 hit the building are either unfamiliar with the evidence or cognitively impaired. Unless, he added, they want to mislead the American people. The evidence is beyond clear and compelling. It places this issue ’sbeyond a reasonable doubt’s. No Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon. 
New study from Pilots for 9 11 Truth
No Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon
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#1. To: Uncle Bill (#0)
Dozens of people stood there and watched the plane fly into the building. I guess they're lying, though. Part of the "conspiracy" the crackpots love to believe in.
"Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave." - Roy Batty
Well, if that's true, it should be no problem for the government to release the confiscated 81 videotapes to prove it, and chase all of us conspiracy theorists off. Why, they could do it tomorrow even.
Press 1 for English, Press 2 for English, Press 3 for deportation Death of Habeas Corpus: “Your words are lies, Sir.”
Veterans 4 911 truth www.v911t.org/
"You can not save the Constitution by destroying it."
"cognitively impaired"? Try "being a jackass."
The forum has its own self-hating neocon button-pusher. What a treat.
ping
Ron Paul for President - Join a Ron Paul Meetup group today! The Revolution will not be televised! Join the Ron Paul Revolution If AA Flight 77 didn't hit the Pentagon, where are the passengers? I believe Barbara Olson was onboard, where are her latest books and commentaries???
"There is a Providence that protects idiots, drunkards, children and the United States of America." - Otto von Bismarck
This post includes as clear of a picture of the original hole in the Pentagon fron the impact on 9/11 that I have seen. Anyone who can look at that and continue to believe what the so-called government says is.... is..... my, words fail me. At least, polite words do. Put it in your pipe and smoke it; No Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest.
Not the relevant question since they could be anywhere.
"Give us liberty and give them death" ... noone222 1-10-08
You fuckin betcha !
"Give us liberty and give them death" ... noone222 1-10-08
part of the problem.
"Give us liberty and give them death" ... noone222 1-10-08
No, we're supposed to believe that the "plane" that "hit" the Pentagon was allowed an hour and a half (88 Minutes) of cruising time prior to entering the most protected airspace in our universe, and striking the Pentagram. Now that's some real conspiracy shit.
"Give us liberty and give them death" ... noone222 1-10-08
Hold on there, the question still stands: where are the passengers? Where is Barbara Olson???? Do you honestly think somebody wouldn't have written a million-dollar best-seller "I Was On Flight #77!!" by now????? Hate to throw a spanner wrench in the conspiracy works and ruin some peoples jerk-off fantasies, but it must be done.
"There is a Providence that protects idiots, drunkards, children and the United States of America." - Otto von Bismarck
Hani Hanjour, aerobatic jet pilot? Alleged flight 77 (Pentagon) pilot Hani Hanjour had a history of great difficulties in his efforts to learn to fly. As late as Aug. 2001, he was unable to demonstrate enough piloting skills to rent a Cessna 172. Certainly there is no evidence that Hanjour ever had any sort of practice flying commercial jetliners or any jet-propelled aircraft. However, air traffic controller Danielle O'Brien, who tracked the radar signal from Flight 77, stated that it was flown like a fighter jet. VIDEO: CNN reported no plane hit Pentagon Check out this shockwave video file of a clip from CNN coverage on the morning of 9/11. CNN reporter Jamie McIntyre says he inspected the Pentagon site and it is obvious no plane crashed there.
The question is completely irrelevant. The whereabouts of these people has nothing to do with the Pentagram being struck by a missile of some sort. These people could be dead, lounging on a secluded beach somewhere remote, or they could be feeding fish at the bottom of the ocean. Makes no difference to the "facts" related to the Pentagon event. If a man is found dead from a gunshot wound ... where the gun is has no bearing on the fact that the guy is dead.
"Give us liberty and give them death" ... noone222 1-10-08
Best sellers, missing people, Barbara Olson, ... are not necessary to the event. Thousands died, and a plethora of bullshit has been spun, buildings collapsed, fake commissions formed ... blah blah blah ... Where are the hundreds of pictures from the many cameras mounted on the Pentagon ?
"Give us liberty and give them death" ... noone222 1-10-08
There are sixty some people that watched the aircraft impact the Pentagon. All unknown to each other. Many of them could identify it as an American Airlines aircraft. Anyone that honestly believes anyone could get all of them to lie is doing a disservice to themselves. All of this tends to muddy the water as to who what when and where.
That many or more saw JFK murdered at close range. Oswald was convicted by the Press and the government before Jack Ruby murdered him. Ask anyone who killed Kennedy and they're likely to say Lee Harvey Oswald. Whatever happened at the Pentagon, the location of those individuals supposedly flying on the plane alleged to have hit the Pentagon has no bearing on anything. Something did hit the Pentagon, and if it was the plane we're expected to believe hit it ... then it was allowed to fly around for 88 minutes without being approached by fighter aircraft trained to prevent just such an event.
"Give us liberty and give them death" ... noone222 1-10-08
Media was there when the landing gear was dragged out. Whatever happened on 9/11 gets obscured by such machinations.
TV Party Tonite:
"Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has." - William S Burroughs
When you look at some of the clowns who said they saw an AA flight, or some sort of airliner, hitting the pentagon, you have to laugh. Bunch of neocon journalists, camera-chasers, and Gary Bauer.
Bingo! What I find so remarkable is the research and analysis of the 9/11truthers is so more factual and compelling than the "truth"? Why is that? I'd say the "truth" is fiction and the findings of the 9/11truthers is the truth.
Well, if that's true, it should be no problem for the government to release the confiscated 81 videotapes to prove it, and chase all of us conspiracy theorists off. Why, they could do it tomorrow even. simple as that
The only solution to this mess is to dig a hole big enough to nudge them all in and cover quickly
If someone wants to believe something, no manner of evidence will ever change their mind.
Statisticly speaking thats not a lot of people. Figure half are Gov shills and the other half are "me too, I want to be on the news tonight " types. Just say'n
Cyni, why hasn't the pentagon released all the videos? why did they confiscate the video from the hotel and gasoline station nearby? they could quite easily put this all to rest just by doing that. the video they did release shows no 757. it's not a matter of what i want to believe. i have seen with my own eyes in photographs and video much more evidence that no 757 hit the pentagon than evidence that one did. i don't take the word of supposed eyewitnesses when i have no idea who they are. and before all that, how on earth do you explain the NORAD stand down and this jet flying around for 88 mins in the most protected airspace in the country?
The only solution to this mess is to dig a hole big enough to nudge them all in and cover quickly
I'm pretty sure they will never find the videos. After all, they couldn't find 2.3 trillion, and they couldn't find the WMD's. Ah, yes, Jim Robinson sort of made this post of mine disappear, but it can still be found. I can't imagine the military in a coverup, can you? THE BOTCHED RON BROWN INVESTIGATION - Kathleen Janoski Let's spend more money on the pentagon and military. Let's make it bigger. (wave the flag, yeah) Col. George Nelson, MBA, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former U.S. Air Force aircraft accident investigator and airplane parts authority. Graduate, U.S. Air Force War College. 34-year Air Force career. Licensed commercial pilot. Licensed airframe and powerplant mechanic. * Essay: "In all my years of direct and indirect participation, I never witnessed nor even heard of an aircraft loss, where the wreckage was accessible, that prevented investigators from finding enough hard evidence to positively identify the make, model, and specific registration number of the aircraft -- and in most cases the precise cause of the accident. ... The government alleges that four wide-body airliners crashed on the morning of September 11 2001, resulting in the deaths of more than 3,000 human beings, yet not one piece of hard aircraft evidence has been produced in an attempt to positively identify any of the four aircraft. On the contrary, it seems only that all potential evidence was deliberately kept hidden from public view. … With all the evidence readily available at the Pentagon crash site, any unbiased rational investigator could only conclude that a Boeing 757 did not fly into the Pentagon as alleged. Similarly, with all the evidence available at the Pennsylvania crash site, it was most doubtful that a passenger airliner caused the obvious hole in the ground and certainly not the Boeing 757 as alleged. … As painful and heartbreaking as was the loss of innocent lives and the lingering health problems of thousands more, a most troublesome and nightmarish probability remains that so many Americans appear to be involved in the most heinous conspiracy in our country's history." http://www.physics911.net Commander Ted Muga, U.S. Navy (ret) – Retired Naval aviator (Grumman E-1 and E- 2). Retired Pan-Am commercial airline pilot (Boeing 707 and 727). * Interview Alex Jones Show 4/11/07: Alex Jones: Recap Hani Hanjour's maneuver, what they claim -- go through the maneuver they claim he did and then what supposedly happened there at the Pentagon ... Commander Muga: The maneuver at the Pentagon was just a tight spiral coming down out of 7,000 feet. And a commercial aircraft, while they can in fact structurally somewhat handle that maneuver, they are very, very, very difficult. And it would take considerable training. In other words, commercial aircraft are designed for a particular purpose and that is for comfort and for passengers and it's not for military maneuvers. And while they are structurally capable of doing them, it takes some very, very talented pilots to do that. ... When a commercial airplane gets that high, it get very, very close to getting into what you refer to as a speed high-speed stall. And a high-speed stall can be very, very violent on a commercial-type aircraft and you never want to get into that situation. I just can't imagine an amateur even being able to come close to performing a maneuver of that nature. And as far as hijacking the airplanes, once again getting back to the nature of pilots and airplanes, there is no way that a pilot would give up an airplane to hijackers. ... I mean, hell, a guy doesn't give up a TV remote control much less a complicated 757. And so to think that pilots would allow a plane to be taken over by a couple of 5 foot 7, 150 pound guys with a one-inch blade boxcutter is ridiculous. And also in all four planes, if you remember, none of the planes ever switched on their transponder to the hijack code. There's a very, very simple code that you put in if you suspect that your plane is being hijacked. It takes literally just a split-second for you to put your hand down on the center console and flip it over. And not one of the four planes ever transponded a hijack code, which is most, most unusual. ... Commercial airplanes are very, very complex pieces of machines. And they're designed for two pilots up there, not just two amateur pilots, but two qualified commercial pilots up there. And to think that you're going to get an amateur up into the cockpit and fly, much less navigate, it to a designated target, the probability is so low, that it's bordering on impossible." Appears half way through the second hour segment at http://www.realradioarchives.com < p> * Member: Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice Association Statement: "Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice is a non-partisan organization consisting of independent researchers and activists engaged in uncovering the true nature of the September 11, 2001 attacks." * Member: Pilots for 9/11 Truth Association Statement: "Pilots for 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout the globe that have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed to seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September 2001. Our main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers performed and the reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point blame. However, we are focused on determining the truth of that fateful day since the United States Government doesn't seem to be very forthcoming with answers." Major Douglas Rokke, PhD Major Douglas Rokke, PhD, U.S. Army (ret) – Former Director U.S. Army Depleted Uranium Project. 30-year Army career. * Article 8/19/05: Regarding the impact at the Pentagon on 9/11/2001 "When you look at the whole thing, especially the crash site void of airplane parts, the size of the hole left in the building and the fact the projectile's impact penetrated numerous concrete walls, it looks like the work of a missile. And when you look at the damage, it was obviously a missile." http://www.rense.com Lt. Col. Karen U. Kwiatkowski, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former Political-Military Affairs Officer in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Also served on the staff of the Director of the National Security Agency. 20-year Air Force veteran. * Contributor to 9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out 8/23/06: Account of Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski, Pentagon employee and eyewitness to the events at the Pentagon on 9/11. "I believe the Commission failed to deeply examine the topic at hand, failed to apply scientific rigor to its assessment of events leading up to and including 9/11, failed to produce a believable and unbiased summary of what happened, failed to fully examine why it happened, and even failed to include a set of unanswered questions for future research. ... It is as a scientist that I have the most trouble with the official government conspiracy theory, mainly because it does not satisfy the rules of probability or physics. The collapses of the World Trade Center buildings clearly violate the laws of probability and physics. ... There was a dearth of visible debris on the relatively unmarked [Pentagon] lawn, where I stood only minutes after the impact. Beyond this strange absence of airliner debris, there was no sign of the kind of damage to the Pentagon structure one would expect from the impact of a large airliner. This visible evidence or lack thereof may also have been apparent to the secretary of defense [Donald Rumsfeld], who in an unfortunate slip of the tongue referred to the aircraft that slammed into the Pentagon as a "missile". ... I saw nothing of significance at the point of impact - no airplane metal or cargo debris was blowing on the lawn in front of the damaged building as smoke billowed from within the Pentagon. ... all of us staring at the Pentagon that morning were indeed looking for such debris, but what we expected to see was not evident. The same is true with regard to the kind of damage we expected. ... But I did not see this kind of damage. Rather, the facade had a rather small hole, no larger than 20 feet in diameter. Although this facade later collapsed, it remained standing for 30 or 40 minutes, with the roof line remaining relatively straight. The scene, in short, was not what I would have expected from a strike by a large jetliner. It was, however, exactly what one would expect if a missile had struck the Pentagon. ... More information is certainly needed regarding the events of 9/11 and the events leading up to that terrible day." Capt. Russ Wittenberg, U.S. Air Force – Former Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. Commercial pilot for Pan Am and United Airlines for 35 years, flying 707, 720, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, and 777 ’s. Had previously flown the actual two United Airlines airplanes that were hijacked on 9/11 (Flight 93, which impacted in Pennsylvania, and Flight 175, the second plane to hit the WTC). * Article 7/17/05: "The government story they handed us about 9/11 is total B.S. plain and simple." … Wittenberg convincingly argued there was absolutely no possibility that Flight 77 could have "descended 7,000 feet in two minutes, all the while performing a steep 270 degree banked turn before crashing into the Pentagon's first floor wall without touching the lawn."… "For a guy to just jump into the cockpit and fly like an ace is impossible - there is not one chance in a thousand," said Wittenberg, recalling that when he made the jump from Boeing 727's to the highly sophisticated computerized characteristics of the 737's through 767's it took him considerable time to feel comfortable flying." http://www.arcticbeacon.com * Audio Interview 9/16/04: Regarding Flight 77, which allegedly hit the Pentagon. "The airplane could not have flown at those speeds which they said it did without going into what they call a high speed stall. The airplane won’t go that fast if you start pulling those high G maneuvers at those bank angles. … To expect this alleged airplane to run these maneuvers with a total amateur at the controls is simply ludicrous... It’s roughly a 100 ton airplane. And an airplane that weighs 100 tons all assembled is still going to have 100 tons of disassembled trash and parts after it hits a building. There was no wreckage from a 757 at the Pentagon. … The vehicle that hit the Pentagon was not Flight 77. We think, as you may have heard before, it was a cruise missile." http://911underground.com * Member: Pilots for 9/11 Truth Association Statement: "Pilots for 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout the globe that have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed to seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September 2001. Our main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers performed and the reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point blame. However, we are focused on determining the truth of that fateful day since the United States Government doesn't seem to be very forthcoming with answers." Capt. Daniel Davis, U.S. Army – Former U.S. Army Air Defense Officer and NORAD Tac Director. Decorated with the Bronze Star and the Soldiers Medal for bravery under fire and the Purple Heart for injuries sustained in Viet Nam. Also served in the Army Air Defense Command as Nike Missile Battery Control Officer for the Chicago-Milwaukee Defense Area. Founder and former CEO of Turbine Technology Services Corp., a turbine (jet engine) services and maintenance company (15 years). Former Senior Manager at General Electric Turbine (jet) Engine Division (15 years). Private pilot. * Statement to this website 3/23/07: "As a former General Electric Turbine engineering specialist and manager and then CEO of a turbine engineering company, I can guarantee that none of the high tech, high temperature alloy engines on any of the four planes that crashed on 9/11 would be completely destroyed, burned, shattered or melted in any crash or fire. Wrecked, yes, but not destroyed. Where are all of those engines, particularly at the Pentagon? If jet powered aircraft crashed on 9/11, those engines, plus wings and tail assembly, would be there. Additionally, in my experience as an officer in NORAD as a Tactical Director for the Chicago- Milwaukee Air Defense and as a current private pilot, there is no way that an aircraft on instrument flight plans (all commercial flights are IFR) would not be intercepted when they deviate from their flight plan, turn off their transponders, or stop communication with Air Traffic Control. No way! With very bad luck, perhaps one could slip by, but no there's no way all four of them could! Finally, going over the hill and highway and crashing into the Pentagon right at the wall/ground interface is nearly impossible for even a small slow single engine airplane and no way for a 757. Maybe the best pilot in the world could accomplish that but not these unskilled "terrorists". Attempts to obscure facts by calling them a "Conspiracy Theory" does not change the truth. It seems, "Something is rotten in the State." Col. Pierre-Henri Bunel, French Army (ret) – Army intelligence and artillery officer. Graduate of École Militaire of St. Cyr. Expert in the effects of artillery weapons and explosives. Served in the Gulf War as battlefield damage assessment officer and aide-de-camp to French General Michel Roquejoffre. Bunel was one of four French officers decorated by General Norman Schwarzkopf for service in the Gulf War. Also Served in French and NATO operations in Somalia, Rwanda, Bosnia and Yugoslavia. 24-year army career. * Essay included in Pentagate by Thierry Meyssan (2002): Regarding Department of Defense photos of the Pentagon on 9/11 - "This image of the impact on the Pentagon is very instructive as to the nature of the explosion. ... It corresponds to a detonation of an explosive with high energetic power. The explosion does not correspond to a deflagration of kerosene [as would result from the impact of an airliner]. ... One distinguishes at ground level, starting from the right-hand side of the photo and going to the base of the mass of white vapor, a white line of smoke. ... As opposed to the smoke that would come out of two kerosene-fueled engines, this smoke is white. The turbojets of a Boeing 757 would in fact leave a trail of much blacker smoke. The examination of this photo alone already suggests a single engine flying vehicle much smaller in size than an airliner. ... The last photo was produced by the Department of Defense and published on a Navy Web site. In examining it, one can see an almost circular hole topped by a black smudge, This perforation is about seven feet in diameter and is situated in the wall of the third line of buildings working inward from the façade. It is supposed to have been made by the nose of the plane. That would mean that the nose of the aircraft, a radome of carbon fiber that is far from being armored, would have traversed without destroying them six load- bearing walls of building considered to be rather solid. ... The appearance of the perforation in the wall certainly resembles the effects of anti-concrete hollow charges that I have been able to observe on a number of battlefields. ... This photo, and the effects described in the official version, lead me therefore to think that the detonation that struck the building was that of a high-powered hollow charge used to destroy hardened buildings and carried by an aerial vehicle, a missile." http://www.voltairenet Steve DeChiaro – Pentagon survivor. Founder of DSCI, a defense contractor. Mr. DeChiaro was walking into the Pentagon's south parking lot entrance when the Pentagon was hit on 9/11. He immediately went to the impact area and started evacuating the injured and the dying. For his heroic efforts that day, Mr. DeChiaro was awarded the Medal of Valor, the Defense Department's highest civilian award for courage and valor. * Article 8/1/02: "Instead of following the streams of people away from the Pentagon, Steve DeChiaro ran toward the smoke. As he reached the west side of the building he saw a light post bent in half. "But when I looked at the site, my brain could not resolve the fact that it was a plane because it only seemed like a small hole in the building," he said. "No tail. No wings. No nothing." http://web.archive.org Major General Albert Stubblebine, U.S. Army (ret) – Former Commanding General of U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command, 1981 - 1984. Also commanded the U.S. Army’s Electronic Research and Development Command and the U.S. Army’s Intelligence School and Center. Former head of Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence. 32-year Army career. * Video 7/11/06: "One of my experiences in the Army was being in charge of the Army’s Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence during the Cold War. I measured pieces of Soviet equipment from photographs. It was my job. I look at the hole in the Pentagon and I look at the size of an airplane that was supposed to have hit the pentagon? What hit it? Where is it? What's going on?
Press 1 for English, Press 2 for English, Press 3 for deportation Death of Habeas Corpus: “Your words are lies, Sir.”
Another thing, the politicians always do everything for the children. Well, somebody has to protect them.
Press 1 for English, Press 2 for English, Press 3 for deportation Death of Habeas Corpus: “Your words are lies, Sir.”
9/11 panel distrusted Pentagon testimony Press 1 for English, Press 2 for English, Press 3 for deportation Death of Habeas Corpus: “Your words are lies, Sir.”
other half are "me too, I want to be on the news tonight " types. Just say'n I had nearly 25 years with the FAA long PRIOR to 9/11, was never a shill, never knew of one and knew of very few me too'ers. The majority disliked the government. A secret is held by ONE person. When they tell the second person, it is no longer a secret. A conspiracy starts with TWO people, so it is NOT a secret to begin with and the odds of exposure increase dangerously as members are added. With that in mind, when you include hundreds of people in trying to exchange a missile or whatever for an aircraft the odds of exposure are beyond imagination and it does not work. Credentials? Were they there? Were they employed by some government agency at the time? Did they sit in on the inquiry? And most of all, would their credentials carry them IF they were tasked before any inquiry group to show the public something of substance to refute untold hundreds of actual participants and witnesses?
Zionists will be zionists, every day is another fairy tail they'll never admit.
Whatever happened on 9/11 gets obscured by such machinations. None of us were there. The government and the media lie to us daily and their machinations obscure our entire perspective of life. They, not us, were responsible for securing D.C. and New York City on 9-11. They failed for whatever reason, and 3000 of our fellow citizens died, wars are being waged, a police state is being constructed right before our eyes. I don't really give a fuck what happened that day, who says they saw it, or for that matter if they have pictures. The world as I was brought up to think it exists is a governmentally produced lie from beginning to end. There ain't no fucking Santa Claus, there ain't no freedom and there sure ain't no reason for me to buy anymore of Uncle Sambo's horseshit. That's why I don't. I don't participate in any of the lying governments horseshit otherwise they'd have me on some fucking program that might commit me to funding their godless international murder incorporated. What exactly happened at the Pentagram is of little consequence. The stooges that run the place fed us a line of shit about the entire episode and everything leading up to it. So why drool over the Pentagram ? I know right from wrong and find gravity sufficient to keep my feet on the ground and my head out of the clouds. I know when I'm being attacked and so does everyone else on this forum. What each of us does with that information may differ. Some maintain a relationship with the murdering sons of bitches for the promise of some meeger benefits, others continue to finance the bastards. I decided I couldn't do either and the benefit of refusing to partake in their "machinations" is that I can objectively analyze events to my own satisfaction or ignore them. Show me the files on Kennedy. I was 13 when that deal went down, commissions were formed, patsies blamed, facts covered up and now 45 years later files are still sealed to keep an immature public from irrational behavior, or for National Security (ha !) reasons. Don't ask me to explain the methods or behavior of the psychopaths intent upon destroying everything decent about life. Don't ask me to explain those others incapable of disassociating themselves from the murderous thugs, because I don't care. I answer to me because I know me, and refuse to lie to myself or even contemplate lies told to me by psychopaths. My life is simplified. Besides, who gives a rats ass whether a plane or a missile or some alien laser beams hit those buildings ? Whatever happened on 9/11 gets obscured by such machinations. No it doesn't. Whatever happened on 9-11 "was obscured" in the planning stages. This conversation should be about gathering a force to defend ourselves from the assholes that were responsible to prevent what happened on 9-11 in the first instance, not bicker endlessly (6 years later) among ourselves about irrelevant minor inconsistencies and details.
"Give us liberty and give them death" ... noone222 1-10-08
Where were they when it was dragged in ? (Just a thought).
"Give us liberty and give them death" ... noone222 1-10-08
Main landing gear would require many men to "drag" in and they were found within rooms that had standard doorways of 2/8 x 6/8.
Your propensity for addressing non issues is frightening. Not that it makes an ounce of difference ... hadn't that section of the building been under recent construction ? Maybe David Copperfield did it by himself, like when he disappears planes ...
"Give us liberty and give them death" ... noone222 1-10-08
The truth will set us free. Reagan's Iran-Contra Deposition OLIVER NORTH DIARY ENTRIES "Want A/C To Pick Up 1500 Kilos" Press 1 for English, Press 2 for English, Press 3 for deportation Death of Habeas Corpus: “Your words are lies, Sir.”
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#2. To: YertleTurtle (#1)
#3. To: Uncle Bill (#2)
#4. To: Uncle Bill (#0)
Those who persist in maintaining that a Boeing 757 hit the building are either unfamiliar with the evidence or cognitively impaired.
#5. To: Uncle Bill (#0)
#6. To: Uncle Bill, SKYDRIFTER, *9-11* (#0)
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.-T Jefferson
#7. To: Uncle Bill (#0)
No videos - no truth.
Freedom*Peace*Prosperity
#8. To: Uncle Bill (#0)
#9. To: Uncle Bill, YertleTurtle, X-15 (#0)
it includes photographs of the hit point before and after the upper floors collapsed
#10. To: X-15 (#8)
where are the passengers?
#11. To: Uncle Bill (#2)
it should be no problem for the government to release the confiscated 81 videotapes to prove it, and chase all of us conspiracy theorists off. Why, they could do it tomorrow even.
#12. To: nobody (#4)
Those who persist in maintaining that a Boeing 757 hit the building are either unfamiliar with the evidence or
#13. To: YertleTurtle (#1)
Part of the "conspiracy" the crackpots love to believe in.
#14. To: YertleTurtle (#1)
Dozens of people stood there and watched the plane fly into the building. I guess they're lying, though. Part of the "conspiracy" the crackpots love to believe in.
#15. To: noone222 (#10)
#16. To: YertleTurtle, Uncle Bill, FormerLurker, wudidiz (#1)
Dozens of people stood there and watched the plane fly into the building. I guess they're lying, though. Part of the "conspiracy" the crackpots love to believe in.
#17. To: YertleTurtle, Uncle Bill, FormerLurker, wudidiz (#1)
Dozens of people stood there and watched the plane fly into the building. I guess they're lying, though. Part of the "conspiracy" the crackpots love to believe in.
shockwave video file
File Format: Shockwave Flash
Buffering...
thewebfairy.com/911/pentagon/27_1-mcintyre.swf -
#18. To: YertleTurtle, wudidiz (#1)
New 9/11 Pentagon video released, shows explosion and no plane
#19. To: X-15 (#15)
Hold on there, the question still stands: where are the passengers?
#20. To: X-15 (#15)
Hold on there, the question still stands: where are the passengers? Where is Barbara Olson???? Do you honestly think somebody wouldn't have written a million-dollar best-seller "I Was On Flight #77!!" by now????? Hate to throw a spanner wrench in the conspiracy works and ruin some peoples jerk-off fantasies, but it must be done.
#21. To: YertleTurtle (#1)
#22. To: Cynicom (#21)
#23. To: noone222 (#22)
#24. To: Cynicom (#23)
#25. To: Uncle Bill (#0)
#26. To: noone222 (#19)
If a man is found dead from a gunshot wound ... where the gun is has no bearing on the fact that the guy is dead.
#27. To: Uncle Bill (#2)
#28. To: christine (#27)
simple as that
#29. To: Cynicom (#21)
"There are sixty some people'
#30. To: Cynicom (#28)
#31. To: christine (#30)
"Armed Forces Institute of Pathology - "About 6 months after the crash I had a conversation with Jeanmarie Sentell, a naval criminal investigative agent. She told me the first set of head x-rays on Ron Brown were deliberately destroyed because they showed a lead snowstorm. I said, "What are you talking about?" She explained to me what a lead snowstorm is: metal fragments breaking up from a bullet. And she proceeded to tell me that the first set of x-rays was deliberately destroyed and a second set was taken. The exposure was changed in an attempt to eradicate or diminish the metal fragments." 
#32. To: christine (#30)
#33. To: christine (#32)
"The panel even considered taking the matter to the Justice Department for a possible criminal probe, commission member Tim Roemer said. "We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting," Roemer told CNN. "We were not sure of the intent, whether it was to deceive the commission or merely part of the fumbling bureaucracy."
#34. To: castletrash, Christine (#29)
Statisticly speaking thats not a lot of people. Figure half are Gov shills and the
#35. To: Uncle Bill (#0)
#36. To: Cynicom (#23)
Media was there when the landing gear was dragged out.
#37. To: Cynicom (#23)
Media was there when the landing gear was dragged out.
#38. To: noone222 (#37)
Where were they when it was dragged in ? (Just a thought).
#39. To: Cynicom (#38)
Main landing gear would require many men to "drag" in and they were found within rooms that had standard doorways of 2/8 x 6/8.
#40. To: christine (#39)
I think so but I can't swear anymore.
I don't remember the times in which those changes and things were made
I can't tell you or remember
I can't remember.
You know, this is awful for me to say but with this lapse of time I don't recall.
I don't recall
I started talking on how little we could remember about what took place
we remembered that we just couldn't pin down the happenings in those eight years
Well, I can't say
but I have no specific memory
I can't be sure
I don't actually recall
I don't know
I can't recall
I'm trying to remember now who was Assad
this is something I don't remember
I don't recall that at all
but I don't have the memory of it
I don't have a memory of that
but I don't have any memory of it
I'd have to have it recalled to me
I don't have a memory of this
I don't have a memory of him
Again, I just don't have a memory of it
I don't have any details about meetings or anything
I don't know
I had forgotten about that
I just don't have any memory of the specifics
I have to tell you that my memory with regard to names is just terrible
I didn't remember names
I don't have specific memories of that
That's about as far as I can remember on any of this or the happenings
I have no memory of that either
And I don't have any memory of that
And again I don't have any memory of that
I don't have any more memory of that
I don't have much of a memory either of that period or when that took place
I don't have any memory of what that could be
I don't know what that would have been about
Again, I don't have a memory of what the hell that would have been
I can't remember what this was all about or what we were doing
I don't remember that at all
but I have no memory of them
I still can't remember the happening that I've written about
I just can't place them
And that I can't remember
I can't particularly say them, who they were or where
but I can't remember specifically
I don't particularly recall that, no
I couldn't even remember writing the things that I was writing about
I couldn't give you names or anything
I don't have a memory of that
No, I don't remember
I have to tell you, no memory comes to mind about these things
I don't have any memory of that or what it would be about
I don't have any memory of that
And I don't have any memory of that either
No, I don't remember that
I can't remember that
I'm amazed that I can't remember that but I don't
I honestly – no, I don't have any memory of that at all
Yes. I'll bet you're all wondering who the hell was really acting as president in those days
Now I don't remember what the hell that is
I just don't have a clear cut memory of the specific meetings or anything on it
No, I don't remember that
I don't remember that
I don't know
No, I don't remember anything like that
I don't have any particular memory of that
I don't remember any particular thing about that
I can't say that I specifically remember
I don't have any memory of that
I don't remember any of this about the complex plan
I have no more memory than is described there in that
I have no fresh memory about all of this
I don't have a clear memory of it. I couldn't even tell you what room we were in
I don't have a memory of it all taking place
I can't remember why
No, I don't remember that that was why he went there. I can't even think of any reason for him going
I know it's in my diary but I don't remember that
Yes, I think it was but I couldn't swear to it
Well, I don't have any memory of that
I don't have a memory of that
I don't remember that either
but I don't have any memory of that
I can't remember
Well, I don't remember it
I don't really remember all of that
I don't remember it
I can't remember any of that
but I can't recall what it was about
I have not a memory of any of this
I don't recall that
I have no memory of it
I don't recall that
I don't recall that
I just can't give you a finding on that
I can't help you. I've got no memory about this at all
Well, I don't have any memory of it
Well, I don't know
I don't recall any of this
I can't picture it and I have no memory of it
Oh. Well, I don't remember any of this
I have no memory of that
I don't remember it
I don't have any memory of making this speech
You know, I can't give you an answer
I can't give you the answer on that
I don't remember the actual thing of doing the speech
You're telling me something I'm not aware of
No, I don't remember
I'll accept this, that I said this, but I have to tell you that I have no memory now of saying it
I don't recall it
Well, I don't remember
I have no memory of what the hell we were talking about in any of them
I have no memory of that either
No. I can't recall it, I can't picture it in my mind
I have no idea about that at all. I can't – I don't recall this, that exchange, or anything at all
I don't recall any of this but I guess I have to admit to it
I don't remember saying it
I just can't recall
I don't remember the exact details or anything about it
I don't recall anything about who it was that did it
Well, I can't recall the details of it at all
But I don't remember the details at all
I'm not aware of. I can't remember anything about that
No, I don't remember that
there again that's a thing that I have no memory of
I can't remember doing this or don't have any memory about that
I don't have any memory of that
I can't give details
Good Lord, I don't have any memory of that
I can't even remember that I was testifying
No, I can't think of anything except that I just don't have a clear memory going back there.
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