See other Resistance Articles
Title: Six Dead In Missouri City Hall Shooting; Two police officers and three city officials including the Mayor...
Source:
Reuters
URL Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0743157520080208
Published: Feb 8, 2008
Author: Reuters
Post Date: 2008-02-08 00:30:55 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 966
Comments: 51
KIRKWOOD, Missouri (Reuters) - A gunman killed two police officers and three city officials on Thursday night when he stormed into a city council meeting in a suburb of St. Louis, police said. The gunman, who was later shot dead by police, killed one police officer in the parking lot outside City Hall in Kirkwood and killed another inside the building. He rushed into the council meeting and began shooting people, including council officials and Mayor Mike Swoboda, who suffered a gunshot wound to the head and was in critical condition, police said. "He shot three other people who were attending the council meeting. They also are deceased," the St. Louis Post-Dispatch newspaper quoted Officer Tracy Panus as saying. Two of the dead were council members and the other was an engineer, police said. Witnesses said the gunman was a middle-aged local contractor who had feuded with the city council in the past and had twice been arrested for disrupting meetings in 2006. Kirkwood is an upscale suburb around 15 miles southwest of St Louis.
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
#1. To: All (#0)
More thorough report: (KTVI - myFOXstl.com) -- Six people were killed, including the shooter and two officers, after a gunman opened fire at a meeting of the Kirkwood City Council in suburban St. Louis Thursday night. Two police officers and three people attending the meeting were killed after the gunman rushed the council chambers and began firing as he yelled "Shoot the mayor!", according to St. Louis County Police spokeswoman Tracy Panus. Two others were wounded. The gunman was fatally shot by Kirkwood police. Panus said the gunman killed one officer outside the city hall, then walked into the chambers and shot another. He continued firing in the chambers, killing three attendees and wounding two others, she said. Names of the victims were not released. Reporter Janet McNichols, who was covering the meeting for the St. Louis Post- Dispatch, said the 7 p.m. meeting with about 30 people had just started when the shooter rushed into the council chambers and began opening fire with at least one weapon. He started yelling "shoot the mayor" while walking around and firing, hitting police officer Tom Ballman in the head, she said. The shooter then went after Public Works Director Kenneth Yost, who was sitting in front of Kirkwood Mayor Mike Swoboda, and shot Yost in the head, McNichols said. McNichols also said the shooter fired at City Attorney John Hessel, who tried to fight off the attacker by throwing chairs. The shooter then moved behind the desk where the council sits and fired more shots at council members. McNichols said Swoboda, and council members Michael H.T. Lynch and Connie Karr also were hit. She identified the as Charles Lee "Cookie" Thornton, a man she knows from covering the council. McNichols said Thornton was often a contentious presence; he had twice been convicted of disorderly conduct for disrupting meetings in May 2006. Most of Thornton's ire was directed at the mayor and Yost, she said. Dozens of emergency vehicles were on the scene and an area of several blocks was cordoned off along a busy north-south corridor around the city hall. Kirkwood is about 20 miles southwest of downtown St. Louis, just inside the I- 270 loop. City Hall is located in a quiet area filled with condominiums, eateries and shops, and is not far from a dance studio and train station. Mary Linehares, a teacher who lives about four blocks from City Hall, described the town as quiet and eclectic after walking down to the scene with her husband.
Never swear "allegiance" to anything other than the 'right to change your mind'!
With all the really evil sons of bitches that he could have wasted his life taking out, he goes local. Go figure.
Gee. Wonder what weapon he had and where he bought it. A wild guess. Gun show.
Honi soit qui mal y pense
I see now why so many posters would like to shove your nose through the back of your small brain.
Actually my first thought was "at least he is taking out those that mattered" instead of a restaurant full of innocents or his own family. If you are going to 'snap'...at least make it count for something. The rest of the 'elected' ought take heed, indeed.
Never swear "allegiance" to anything other than the 'right to change your mind'!
We're in the same Chapter, if not exactly on the same page. Tyranny is generally felt locally, first.
More on the shooter "Charles Lee Thornton"... Federal court rejects council critic's First Amendment claims By David L. Hudson Jr. First Amendment scholar 02.07.08 A federal judge in Missouri has rejected the First Amendment claims of a man removed from Kirkwood City Council meetings for “repetitive, personal, virulent attacks” against council members. Charles Lee Thornton had sued the city of Kirkwood after he was arrested twice (and later convicted) for disorderly conduct at two council meetings in 2006. In May 2006, Thornton had the opportunity to speak during the public-comment portion of a council meeting that addressed the expansion of two businesses — a funeral home and a senior living facility. During the time reserved to discuss the funeral home, Thornton rose to speak about what he alleged was personal harassment of him by city officials, not the expansion of the business. He displayed a large poster with a picture of a donkey and made intemperate remarks about the mayor. Thornton then warned the funeral home owner that the city had a “plantation-mentality” and “jackass-like qualities.” Thornton engaged in similar conduct after the presentation about the senior living center. He said the mayor was “sitting there looking stupid.” The mayor eventually ordered Thornton to leave the podium and called the police. When the police came to the podium, Thornton sat on the floor and refused to leave. He was arrested and later convicted of disorderly conduct. He has appealed his conviction to a state appeals court. Similar events occurred at a June 2006 City Council meeting. During the public- comment portion, Thornton was allowed to speak, at which point he began: “Jackass, jackass, jackass … .” Eventually the mayor asked the police to remove Thornton, who again sat on the floor. Once again he was arrested and convicted of disorderly conduct. Thornton later filed a federal lawsuit, contending that his First Amendment rights had been violated. U.S. District Judge Catherine D. Perry disagreed in her Jan. 28, 2008, opinion in Thornton v. City of Kirkwood. She applied a forum analysis, determining that the public comment portion of the meetings constituted a limited designated public forum that the city could reserve for certain groups and topics of discussion. She did not find the public-comment period to be a traditional public forum in which government restrictions on speech must pass strict scrutiny — the highest form of judicial review. She noted that there was substantial confusion in the lower courts over the terms “limited public forum” and “designated public forum.” Perry ruled that a limited designated public forum is a subclass of a designated public forum in which restrictions on speech must be reasonable and viewpoint-neutral. “As the meeting was a limited designated public forum, Kirkwood had the right to restrict the topic of discussion to the expansion of two businesses,” Perry wrote. Rather than addressing germane subject matter, “Thornton engaged in personal attacks against the mayor, Kirkwood, and the city council. “Any restrictions on Thornton’s speech were reasonable, viewpoint neutral, and served important governmental interests,” Perry wrote. “Because Thornton does not have a First Amendment right to engage in irrelevant debate and to voice repetitive, personal, virulent attacks against Kirkwood and its city officials during the comment portion of a city council public hearing, his claim fails as a matter of law.” http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/analysis.aspx?id=19647
Never swear "allegiance" to anything other than the 'right to change your mind'!
If you look carefully, that's in the "North American Community Mayors' Handbook".
A better question would be: Which anti-depressant was he on?
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
A fair question also.
Honi soit qui mal y pense
It's easier for the deconstructionists to blame the firearms. FUCK the deconstructionists. To HELL. ALL of them.
Tyranny is generally felt locally, first. yep, that was my first thought. notice he was a contractor who had feuded with the city council in the past. i know lots of folks who have been tyrannized by these bureaucrats with private property being stolen from them and/or their businesses being destroyed. just wait until the TTC begins. i'm betting we're going to see a lot more of this kind of thing.
The only solution to this mess is to dig a hole big enough to nudge them all in and cover quickly
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." -- John F. Kennedy Take heed all ye fascist StateInc thugs. Your time is just about up. Prepare for the rope..or worse.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition "Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." © IndieTx Actually, I think the aware people of the country are so tired of being ignored by their own friends and abused by these petty sons and daughters of bitches, that this may just be the beginning of many tears. America is on edge and can't see a solution in the near future.
"Give us liberty and give them death" ... noone222 1-10-08
When my friends in the glorious State of Texas call for support to defend their properties against the NAU-TX Trans Corridor eminent domainers, I will eagerly come running. That understatement is indeed no exaggeration.
-- John F. Kennedy THE 2008 quote of the Year.
Didn't hurt his aim ... 7 shot 5 dead, one in critical condition ... I'd say he was mad as hell, not depressed. However, I wouldn't be shocked if he were on some anti-depressant medication.
"Give us liberty and give them death" ... noone222 1-10-08
FUCK'em. Don't even let them see it coming. Hear it? Maybe.
"ALL" politics is local. Maybe he's sending a grass roots message to his fellow citizens that are weary of electing people to represent them as public servants only to have those elected become public masters that eventually decide they don't even want to hear a complaint. Then this ignorant federal Judge wants to equivocate about the meaning of public forum and whether it can be restricted ... blah, blah, blah ... I do agree there are much better targets out there, and many of them. Someday they'll be using "FREE SPEECH ZONES" as temporary morgues for the political deaf mutes instituting them.
"Give us liberty and give them death" ... noone222 1-10-08
I'm saving myself.
I just looked at the mayor and council, and they appear to be a bunch of Republicans. The town has an ordinance to regulate how long they have to dispose of a newborn litter of kittens so as not to exceed the three-cat rule. As with many small, corporate governments they are probably a pain in the ass. I see the mayor was elected in 1976, took an 8 year break between 84 and 92, and has served since. Of course the news report is slanted, but if the shooter was a disruptive, childish, pain in the ass who wouldn't take no for an answer and wouldn't allow the council to conduct business when he wished to dominate the agenda, then I would have had little sympathy for him. He could have done what we did when we found the Newport, DE town govt unsatisfactory-move out of town and let the rest of the residents have the govt they deserve. I take no pleasure in this senseless act. Whatever the grievance it couldn't possibly warrant this violence.
"'Schools is educationy' ; A message from our president."
Some have become officially unelected ... a voter with an accurate weapon insures his vote gets counted !
"Give us liberty and give them death" ... noone222 1-10-08
Do you think it's simply a matter of the local activities ? Are we to forget WACO and RUBY RIDGE ? Do government organs get a special waiver (immunity) from their deeds ? When it comes right down to it, WE HAVE SOME SERIOUS CATCHING UP TO DO !!! It looks to me that many politicians aren't able to cope with the inherent power of their office in a respectable manner. When a citizen that might get tongue twisted or may stutter when speaking before a large audience is cut-off, asked to leave, laughed at or ignored, where is the redress ? I've noticed that many small towns are now implementing "ordinances" that appear to be straight out of Agenda 21, and contrary to the way things had normally been. The more intrusive the governing authorities become on all levels ... the more violence we will see. Cameras, check-points, bio-metrics, finger scanning the "kids", forced vaccinations, strip searches at the mall, dna samples taken at routine traffic stops ... gimme a break, this revolution is 50 years late.
"Give us liberty and give them death" ... noone222 1-10-08
Almost everyone of these spree killers are on/were some type of psychotropic.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
Agreed, but let's look a little closer. Why were they on them ? ... They were depressed. Why were they depressed ? ... Because life in the U.S. is becoming depressing to many. I think all psychotropics should be banned. However, I also think there are extenuating circumstances that lead to the easy access and availability to them.
"Give us liberty and give them death" ... noone222 1-10-08
You mean think local, act global?
www.stltoday.com Gunman opens fire in Kirkwood "...Sportscaster Doug Vaughn of Channel 4 told that station that he went to Kirkwood High School with Thornton and saw him through the years. He said Thornton’s behavior changed after police cracked down on his parking of vehicles for his construction company outside his home in Meacham Park. He felt harassed, Vaughn said. "He could not have been a nicer guy to those who knew them but I think this problem with the city drove him completely crazy," Vaughn said in the TV interview..." On the other thread are some comments about how he got pushed to this place of upset.
I lived in St. Louis for many years and have been through Kirkwood many, many times and have shopped there often. It's a very nice suburb. The actor Scott Bakula is from there. There have been problems for several years with the city wanting to tear down stuff and expand. It's utterly unnecessary and would destroy the downtown. I suspect this had something to do with the shootings.
If you do not know who you are, you are maimed.- Jimmy Cantrell
I looked up the website and their municipal codes, and found the below: Sec. 449;1. Cruelty to animals. No person shall overdrive, overload, drive when overloaded, ill-treat, torture, torment or unnecessarily or cruelly beat or needlessly mutilate or kill, or cause or procure to be over-driven, overloaded, driven when overloaded, ill-treated, tortured, tormented or unnecessarily or cruelly beaten, or needlessly mutilated or killed, any dumb animal. (Gen. Ords. 1959, § 52.35) That sentence illustrates why I hate the way laws are written. It's like they just kept adding words to existing ordinances over time to end up with such confused trash. The subject of the sentence doesn't appear until the last two words! The "three cat" rule seems to be ubiquitous. Where I live in Michigan they've got a three cat per domicile rule that I haven't figured out yet. I think it's in response to the "crazy cat lady" but I wonder who decided that three is the maximum amount. And there are other laws that cover the crazy cat lady that could be used, rather than arbitrarily setting limits. I suppose that cat fosterers must get some kind of license. One of the people we adopted two cats from had nine.
Rivers of blood were spilled out over land that, in normal times, not even the poorest Arab would have worried his head over." Field Marshal Erwin Rommel
The shooter, Charles Thorton.
If you do not know who you are, you are maimed.- Jimmy Cantrell
He looks like a regular guy. I've seen arrogant city councils. They can be infuriating and when they mess with your reputation and your livlihood with no redress, it can easily push people to the point of desperation and finally, retribution.
Screw government on all levels. After all they delight in screwing us.
I doubt it. What did the docile Americans do after JFK's brains were blown out? He was trying to implement the gradual dissolution of the private central bank called the Fed (which our founders warned us against), to break the CIA "into a thousand pieces" and also, for good measure, to withdraw from the jungle hellhole called Vietnam. He was rewarded for his courage in a most violent manner and schoolchildren in the city where he was murdered cheered when it was announced over the PA system.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
I can't even entertain that possibility.
Well, I certainly agree in principle. But, my reading of the article left me with the impression that this disgruntled contractor was "settling the score" for perceived wrongs at the local level. His theatrics and sophomoric insults directed toward the mayor, and sitting down on the floor after his alloted time had elapsed and forcing the police to remove him just reminds me of the grumpy, childish, "I want what I want when I want it" types that I've seen at town meetings here. If they had a legit complaint the majority of the council would more often than not agree with them. But, some folks channel their frustrations about the evil feds, the NWO, The Rockefellers, etc., toward niddly shit town govt people, and as often as not those who complain incessantly are simply bullying folks because they can, all the while thinking of themselves as local heroes instead of the disruptive, anti social,, arrested development buttheads that they are. I don't share the view that a city meter maid or building inspector be shot with a sniper rifle to even the score for what Lon Horiuchi did at Ruby Ridge. To advocate such would be to forfeit the high moral ground and simply reduce one's self to a mutual combatant in a battle of competing evils.
"'Schools is educationy' ; A message from our president."
I can't even entertain that possibility. It's true. I can't tell you the 'anti-Kennedy' sentiments that many kids got from their parents at the time, so yes, there were some who cheered.
Join the Ron Paul Revolution No person shall overdrive, overload, drive when overloaded, ill-treat, torture, torment or unnecessarily or cruelly beat or needlessly mutilate or kill, or cause or procure to be over-driven, overloaded, driven when overloaded, ill-treated, tortured, tormented or unnecessarily or cruelly beaten, or needlessly mutilated or killed, any dumb animal. (Gen. Ords. 1959, § 52.35) That sentence illustrates why I hate the way laws are written. It's like they just kept adding words to existing ordinances over time to end up with such confused trash. The subject of the sentence doesn't appear until the last two words! The "three cat" rule seems to be ubiquitous. Where I live in Michigan they've got a three cat per domicile rule that I haven't figured out yet. I think it's in response to the "crazy cat lady" but I wonder who decided that three is the maximum amount. And there are other laws that cover the crazy cat lady that could be used, rather than arbitrarily setting limits. I suppose that cat fosterers must get some kind of license. One of the people we adopted two cats from had nine. The first ordinance seems to be a relic from a bygone era, back when it was deemed necessary to regulate by ordinance which had the right of way if a horse and a cow reached the crossroads at the same time. I suspect the three-cat rule was settled by folks who know how much cat litter in a communal cat box is too much! (probably wimmen, heh heh) Yeah, we have some "kat experts" and some "kat haters" here. One woman council member pushed through a leash law aimed at cats, and I brutalized her in my newspaper column at the time. I called it "the alligator leash law" because it didn't mention cats and supposedly applied to all animals kept in town, and it proved so embarrassing (I did my part) that they eventually repealed it. (Those who've ever tried to walk a cat understand) My solution to katz peeing on folks' tomato plants was considerably bolder-I recommended using super quiet CB caps in a .22 rifle and bagging the carcasses up and tossing them where they'd never be found. The sheer horror my "solution" caused cat lovers forced them to accept the point I was making-"If you really love Fluffy then you'll keep its furry little ass inside."
"'Schools is educationy' ; A message from our president."
Geez, I must be living in a fukking bubble then.
To advocate such would be to forfeit the high moral ground and simply reduce one's self to a mutual combatant in a battle of competing evils. You are correct. It would be wrong to kill someone just because they happen to work for some level of government. Lon Horiuchi is the murderer who should be punished for what he did at Ruby Ridge. Instead they promoted the murdering bastard. But he WILL pay for his crimes, he can be sure of that. If not in this life then in the next one.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. I wonder what sort of construction vehicles pinhead maximus was dying to be ticketed 150 times over for parking in his neighborhood.
Comments (41 - 51) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
#2. To: Brian S (#0)
#3. To: Brian S (#1)
#4. To: Mekons4 (#3)
#5. To: _______ (#2)
#6. To: Brian S (#5)
#7. To: All (#0)
#8. To: Brian S (#7)
He said the mayor was “sitting there looking stupid.”
#9. To: Mekons4, _______, TwentyTwelve, Wudidiz, Kamala, all (#3)
Gee. Wonder what weapon he had and where he bought it. A wild guess. Gun show.
#10. To: Original_Intent (#9)
A better question would be: Which anti-depressant was he on?
#11. To: Original_Intent (#9)
#12. To: _______, Brian S, IndieTx (#6)
We're in the same Chapter, if not exactly on the same page.
#13. To: christine, noone222, _________ (#12)
feuded with the city council in the past. i know lots of folks who have been tyrannized by these bureaucrats with private property being stolen from them and/or their businesses being destroyed
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#14. To: christine (#12)
i'm betting we're going to see a lot more of this kind of thing.
#15. To: christine (#12)
#16. To: IndieTX (#13)
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
#17. To: Original_Intent (#9)
Which anti-depressant was he on?
#18. To: IndieTX (#13)
Take heed all ye fascist StateInc thugs. Your time is just about up. Prepare for the rope..or worse.
#19. To: _______ (#2)
(Edited)
With all the really evil sons of bitches that he could have wasted his life taking out, he goes local.
#20. To: noone222 (#19)
#21. To: Brian S (#0)
(Edited)
#22. To: HOUNDDAWG (#21)
I just looked at the mayor and council, and they appear to be a bunch of Republicans.
#23. To: HOUNDDAWG (#21)
(Edited)
Whatever the grievance it couldn't possibly warrant this violence.
#24. To: Original_Intent (#9)
#25. To: Kamala (#24)
Almost everyone of these spree killers are on/were some type of psychotropic.
#26. To: _______ (#2)
#27. To: noone222 (#17)
(Edited)
#28. To: Brian S (#0)
#29. To: HOUNDDAWG (#21)
#30. To: Brian S (#0)
#31. To: YertleTurtle (#30)
#32. To: Brian S (#5)
The rest of the 'elected' ought take heed, indeed.
#33. To: _______ (#16)
violent revolution inevitable
#34. To: Sam Houston (#33)
schoolchildren in the city where he was murdered cheered
#35. To: noone222 (#23)
Do you think it's simply a matter of the local activities ? Are we to forget WACO and RUBY RIDGE ? Do government organs get a special waiver (immunity) from their deeds ? When it comes right down to it, WE HAVE SOME SERIOUS CATCHING UP TO DO !!!
#36. To: angle, Sam Houston, the thread (#34)
schoolchildren in the city where he was murdered cheered
Freedom*Peace*Prosperity
#37. To: historian1944 (#29)
(Edited)
Sec. 449;1. Cruelty to animals.
#38. To: lodwick (#36)
#39. To: HOUNDDAWG (#35)
I don't share the view that a city meter maid or building inspector be shot with a sniper rifle to even the score for what Lon Horiuchi did at Ruby Ridge.
Lord Acton
#40. To: angle (#31)
.
.
.