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Title: I have to say, I am very surprised at the number of 4um posters who are considering voting for Obama or any of the Establishment picks....
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Feb 13, 2008
Author: Christine
Post Date: 2008-02-13 19:56:40 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 9117
Comments: 359

By voting for any one of them, you support and lend legitimacy to the fraud. Isn't it time we say no and no more?

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 109.

#44. To: christine (#0)

christine....I think it's not so much a sell-out as the age old dilemma of voting one's conscience vs voting AGAINST rather than for. I like ron paul, mostly for his anti-war views, but as I have stated here many times, I'm a bleeding heart liberal and my candidate was dennis kucinich. that presented a struggle for me - vote for him, knowing he couldn't win, or vote against someone else. just about the time I decided to vote my conscience he dropped out. so much for my conscience.

I want someone to get us out of this stupid and morally wrong war, and all the evil trappings, like torture and the gutting of our rights, that accompany it. I think I am in agreement with most, if not all, here about that. where we digress is that I believe more in social programs than I think many here do. I do a lot of volunteer work and I just can't deny the need. I wish programs to help the poor weren't necessary, but I believe strongly that they are. I hate paying taxes but if I didn't, I would probably pay as much or more to help the needy. do I think government is the best entity to do this? not really, but it's probably the only one with the clout to make it happen. do I think it's efficient? no. I just don't see the alternative.

anyway, I enjoy posting and reading here. I generally run in ultra-liberal circles in *real life* and I love seeing other viewpoints and opening my mind to other opinions, and finding common ground, which I often do.

my original point (I really did have one!) is that if obama is the candidate against mccain, a vote for obama could be a vote *against* 100 years in iraq and a new war in iran. a vote for a third party candidate (I personally like cynthia mckinney) could be a vote that helps mccain, and promotes war. I'm not advocating for obama here. I think he's an awesome speaker but I haven't seen much substance beyond that. he's not my candidate. but he's likely to get my vote if it's against mccain, who I really don't much care for. so that was my point. saying no and no more could feel personally good, but cause unwanted repercussions. sometimes you have to vote AGAINST, not for.

I read recently somewhere (here maybe?) that this whole national election circus is designed to distract people from the elections that really will impact their lives, local elections. those are probably what we all should focus on while the dog and pony show plays out. my 2 cents :)

kiki  posted on  2008-02-13   22:03:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

what we all should focus on while the dog and pony show plays out. my 2 cents :)

Your two cents was well written and without malice for anyone, I appreciate that.

Forgetting that who is good, better or best, is needed in an effort to clear ones mind.

Assign them letters and accept that they stand for nothing. All being on an equal footing, how would you vote? Does'nt it stand to reason that it makes no difference?

Now back to the real world, realize that a relativly small number of people have preselected who the candidates will be, with that in mind, does it really matter who you vote for????

Cynicom  posted on  2008-02-13   22:14:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Now back to the real world, realize that a relativly small number of people have preselected who the candidates will be, with that in mind, does it really matter who you vote for????

oh, excellent, but the vote for one of their preselected simply reinforces a belief in the fraudulent system and that we-the-people want more of the same.

christine  posted on  2008-02-13   22:34:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

oh, excellent, but the vote for one of their preselected simply reinforces a belief in the fraudulent system and that we-the-people want more of the same.

That's why Obama is actually worse than Hillary or McLame. Everyone knows that Hill and McLame suck, but people actually think Obama is "change" and "hope" and "different" and "fresh." Thus, if he gets in, it will sort of impliedly legitimize the status quo.

Vitamin Z  posted on  2008-02-13   22:50:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Thus, if he gets in, it will sort of impliedly legitimize the status quo.

That is possible and plausible but not highly probable.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-02-13   22:52:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#111. To: Cynicom (#109)

To: Vitamin Z

Thus, if he gets in, it will sort of impliedly legitimize the status quo.

That is possible and plausible but not highly probable.

Which part, Obama winning or that event legitimizing the status quo?

Vitamin Z  posted on  2008-02-13 22:54:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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