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Title: I have to say, I am very surprised at the number of 4um posters who are considering voting for Obama or any of the Establishment picks....
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Published: Feb 13, 2008
Author: Christine
Post Date: 2008-02-13 19:56:40 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 8660
Comments: 359

By voting for any one of them, you support and lend legitimacy to the fraud. Isn't it time we say no and no more?

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 164.

#44. To: christine (#0)

christine....I think it's not so much a sell-out as the age old dilemma of voting one's conscience vs voting AGAINST rather than for. I like ron paul, mostly for his anti-war views, but as I have stated here many times, I'm a bleeding heart liberal and my candidate was dennis kucinich. that presented a struggle for me - vote for him, knowing he couldn't win, or vote against someone else. just about the time I decided to vote my conscience he dropped out. so much for my conscience.

I want someone to get us out of this stupid and morally wrong war, and all the evil trappings, like torture and the gutting of our rights, that accompany it. I think I am in agreement with most, if not all, here about that. where we digress is that I believe more in social programs than I think many here do. I do a lot of volunteer work and I just can't deny the need. I wish programs to help the poor weren't necessary, but I believe strongly that they are. I hate paying taxes but if I didn't, I would probably pay as much or more to help the needy. do I think government is the best entity to do this? not really, but it's probably the only one with the clout to make it happen. do I think it's efficient? no. I just don't see the alternative.

anyway, I enjoy posting and reading here. I generally run in ultra-liberal circles in *real life* and I love seeing other viewpoints and opening my mind to other opinions, and finding common ground, which I often do.

my original point (I really did have one!) is that if obama is the candidate against mccain, a vote for obama could be a vote *against* 100 years in iraq and a new war in iran. a vote for a third party candidate (I personally like cynthia mckinney) could be a vote that helps mccain, and promotes war. I'm not advocating for obama here. I think he's an awesome speaker but I haven't seen much substance beyond that. he's not my candidate. but he's likely to get my vote if it's against mccain, who I really don't much care for. so that was my point. saying no and no more could feel personally good, but cause unwanted repercussions. sometimes you have to vote AGAINST, not for.

I read recently somewhere (here maybe?) that this whole national election circus is designed to distract people from the elections that really will impact their lives, local elections. those are probably what we all should focus on while the dog and pony show plays out. my 2 cents :)

kiki  posted on  2008-02-13   22:03:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

what we all should focus on while the dog and pony show plays out. my 2 cents :)

Your two cents was well written and without malice for anyone, I appreciate that.

Forgetting that who is good, better or best, is needed in an effort to clear ones mind.

Assign them letters and accept that they stand for nothing. All being on an equal footing, how would you vote? Does'nt it stand to reason that it makes no difference?

Now back to the real world, realize that a relativly small number of people have preselected who the candidates will be, with that in mind, does it really matter who you vote for????

Cynicom  posted on  2008-02-13   22:14:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Now back to the real world, realize that a relativly small number of people have preselected who the candidates will be, with that in mind, does it really matter who you vote for????

oh, excellent, but the vote for one of their preselected simply reinforces a belief in the fraudulent system and that we-the-people want more of the same.

christine  posted on  2008-02-13   22:34:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

oh, excellent, but the vote for one of their preselected simply reinforces a belief in the fraudulent system and that we-the-people want more of the same.

Indeed...

My point was and is that it makes NO difference who you vote for president. Withholding is a different story. I posted here somewhere tonite about there are many Americans that routinely do NOT vote for president, I added they were smarter than me.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-02-13   22:38:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

here's what I'd like to hear on cnn in november....a record number of people voted today but NOBODY voted for president or congress, only for local candidates.

the downside is that somebody, somewhere, would interpret that as a mandate for something very very bad.

kiki  posted on  2008-02-13   22:44:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

je ne comprende pas

kiki  posted on  2008-02-13   22:46:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

ok, you guys, i'll give you that i'd much rather have to hear obama's voice for 4 yrs (assuming that we still have a country that long) rather than that hillary whine.

christine  posted on  2008-02-13   22:55:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

ok, you guys, i'll give you that i'd much rather have to hear obama's voice for 4 yrs

:) interesting, because I read an article recently that said that the president's job, really, is to communicate with the public. it's gotten all weird with signing statements and executive orders and secret courts that are making the presidency a lawmaking and judicial entity, which it wasn't supposed to be. if the president's job is to give great speeches and make everyone feel good, then obama is the obvious choice. but we're not there.

kiki  posted on  2008-02-13   23:07:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

kiki...

Take some loot out of that old sock and place it on Obama to lose. Make a few bucks and cheat Uncle Sam.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-02-13   23:09:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Take some loot out of that old sock and place it on Obama to lose

I still think he'll lose, too. There has to be a reason why Hillary hasn't sent out the full blown attack dogs yet. Waiting, waiting...

Vitamin Z  posted on  2008-02-13   23:11:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

. Waiting, waiting...

Gov. Rendell of Pa. said yesterday that his state will not vote for a black man and he is right.

Anyone that thinks the South will do so is kidding themselves.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-02-13   23:18:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Gov. Rendell of Pa. said yesterday that his state will not vote for a black man and he is right.

Anyone that thinks the South will do so is kidding themselves.

Seems logical to me, but so far Obama is kicking Confederate- state ass and taking redneck names.

Vitamin Z  posted on  2008-02-13   23:25:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#170. To: Vitamin Z (#164)

Seems logical to me, but so far Obama is kicking Confederate- state ass and taking redneck names.

If you study the numbers etc you will find the Obamas win numbers are somewhat skewed.

For instance big banner headlines that Obama takes DC. Fine..check the NUMBER of pub votes vs the number of dem votes, therein lies the falsehood.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-02-13 23:29:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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