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Title: I have to say, I am very surprised at the number of 4um posters who are considering voting for Obama or any of the Establishment picks....
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Feb 13, 2008
Author: Christine
Post Date: 2008-02-13 19:56:40 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 8336
Comments: 359

By voting for any one of them, you support and lend legitimacy to the fraud. Isn't it time we say no and no more?

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  

Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 308.

#44. To: christine (#0)

christine....I think it's not so much a sell-out as the age old dilemma of voting one's conscience vs voting AGAINST rather than for. I like ron paul, mostly for his anti-war views, but as I have stated here many times, I'm a bleeding heart liberal and my candidate was dennis kucinich. that presented a struggle for me - vote for him, knowing he couldn't win, or vote against someone else. just about the time I decided to vote my conscience he dropped out. so much for my conscience.

I want someone to get us out of this stupid and morally wrong war, and all the evil trappings, like torture and the gutting of our rights, that accompany it. I think I am in agreement with most, if not all, here about that. where we digress is that I believe more in social programs than I think many here do. I do a lot of volunteer work and I just can't deny the need. I wish programs to help the poor weren't necessary, but I believe strongly that they are. I hate paying taxes but if I didn't, I would probably pay as much or more to help the needy. do I think government is the best entity to do this? not really, but it's probably the only one with the clout to make it happen. do I think it's efficient? no. I just don't see the alternative.

anyway, I enjoy posting and reading here. I generally run in ultra-liberal circles in *real life* and I love seeing other viewpoints and opening my mind to other opinions, and finding common ground, which I often do.

my original point (I really did have one!) is that if obama is the candidate against mccain, a vote for obama could be a vote *against* 100 years in iraq and a new war in iran. a vote for a third party candidate (I personally like cynthia mckinney) could be a vote that helps mccain, and promotes war. I'm not advocating for obama here. I think he's an awesome speaker but I haven't seen much substance beyond that. he's not my candidate. but he's likely to get my vote if it's against mccain, who I really don't much care for. so that was my point. saying no and no more could feel personally good, but cause unwanted repercussions. sometimes you have to vote AGAINST, not for.

I read recently somewhere (here maybe?) that this whole national election circus is designed to distract people from the elections that really will impact their lives, local elections. those are probably what we all should focus on while the dog and pony show plays out. my 2 cents :)

kiki  posted on  2008-02-13   22:03:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

if obama is the candidate against mccain, a vote for obama could be a vote *against* 100 years in iraq and a new war in iran. a vote for a third party candidate (I personally like cynthia mckinney) could be a vote that helps mccain, and promotes war.

and that's it in a nutshell

robin  posted on  2008-02-13   22:14:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

if obama is the candidate against mccain, a vote for obama could be a vote *against* 100 years in iraq and a new war in iran. a vote for a third party candidate (I personally like cynthia mckinney) could be a vote that helps mccain, and promotes war.

While I'm thinking of it, I have some ocean front property in New Mexico I'm looking to unload...

FOH  posted on  2008-02-13   22:23:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I think kiki expressed the dilemma very well.

Do you prefer a McCain presidency then? Would it be good for your real-estate endeavors?

robin  posted on  2008-02-13   22:27:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Do you prefer a McCain presidency then? Would it be good for your real-estate endeavors?

Any one of the 3 will give you the exact same thing.

Hussein Obama will be given the reason for war and he'll do his lord's will.

They're all going to give you Amnesty and the North American Union.

Why support ANY of them? Just to be cool? I don't get it. There is no 'lesser evil' at this point.

They're all pure wickedness. Why don't you people see this (I might not want to know the answer, it's occurred to me)?

FOH  posted on  2008-02-13   22:30:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Why support ANY of them? Just to be cool? I don't get it. There is no 'lesser evil' at this point.

I do see a lesser evil. I could be wrong, but from what I've researched and read I believe he would cause the least amount of harm.

robin  posted on  2008-02-13   22:32:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I do see a lesser evil. I could be wrong, but from what I've researched and read I believe he would cause the least amount of harm.

I'm afraid that won't resonate, robin.

We appear to be confronted with a bunch of prone little foot kickers here, who if they can't have things exactly their way, are just going to hold their breath.

iconoclast  posted on  2008-02-14   10:18:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Who's confronting you? Go vote Obama, then.

angle  posted on  2008-02-14   10:21:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Who's confronting you?

Surely you jest.

Go vote Obama, then.

I did ..... yesterday.

Did I strike you as one who doesn't put his money where his mouth is?

iconoclast  posted on  2008-02-14   17:44:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Did I strike you as one who doesn't put his money where his mouth is?

No. Just wonder what all your hoopla's about if you're voting Obama. No worries, right? He's certainly no conservative or libertarian or constitutionalist, so he's not losing any votes from the RP crowd, now is he?

angle  posted on  2008-02-14   17:58:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

No. Just wonder what all your hoopla's about if you're voting Obama. No worries, right? He's certainly no conservative or libertarian or constitutionalist, so he's not losing any votes from the RP crowd, now is he?

I owe you all a small clarification I guess.

My sentiments, and they are intense, are aimed at those of you who are yet to cast your primary vote.

McCain is unstoppable in the the Stupid Party.

Hitlery still has a realistic shot at being on the Dim ticket.

If this is prospect is okey dokey with you, then sleep well.

If you sit 'n bitchers are comfortable with the prospect then just ignore me. Then it will become the first election I've ever sat out .... there will be NO lesser of two evils.

iconoclast  posted on  2008-02-14   18:34:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

My sentiments, and they are intense, are aimed at those of you who are yet to cast your primary vote.

I'm voting FOR Ron Paul on March 4, 2008. Not Obama. Not Hitlery. Not "Insane" McCain. Why?? Because he is the only man running for President who is brave enough to break with all of the bad policies that have almost ruined this nation. You voted for Obama and that's your right. But if you vote for Obama this November and that sorry bastard becomes President we'll all remember you voted for him, iconoclast. And we'll exercise OUR RIGHT (with christine's permission) to excoriate you in the public arena called freedom4um. Fair enough?

X-15  posted on  2008-02-14   18:56:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

But if you vote for Obama this November and that sorry bastard becomes President we'll all remember you voted for him, iconoclast.

Sorry, I didn't get which of the other inevitable candidates you're hoping for .... Hitlery or McInsane?

iconoclast  posted on  2008-02-14   19:02:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I'm not voting for any of the three stooges. If I can't write-in Ron Paul this November, I'm not voting for President.

X-15  posted on  2008-02-14   19:11:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Not trying to be obtuse, but what could possibly prevent you from voting for Dr Paul as a write-in? I doubt any such effort would result in a Ron Paul presidency, but it is nonetheless a simple way to serve notice.

I've never done a write-in before, but that's my plan for now, largely depending on who the Libertarians or Constitutional Parties run.

Dakmar  posted on  2008-02-14   19:17:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I've never done a write-in before, but that's my plan for now

That was my plan too until I gave the McCain Clinton face off some serious thought.

iconoclast  posted on  2008-02-14   19:39:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Obama is bought and paid for is my opinion. I derive no pleasure from that, it actually hurts if I think too hard about it, but I've seen him kowtow to AIPAC one too many times, which is one with me.

Dakmar  posted on  2008-02-14   19:43:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#313. To: Dakmar (#308)

Obama is bought and paid for is my opinion. I derive no pleasure from that, it actually hurts if I think too hard about it, but I've seen him kowtow to AIPAC one too many times, which is one with me.

I have read his speech to AIPAC and found it unsatisfactory on a couple of points, but hardly the ass-kissing sort of thing we have come to expect from Bush.

iconoclast  posted on  2008-02-14 20:21:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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