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Title: I have to say, I am very surprised at the number of 4um posters who are considering voting for Obama or any of the Establishment picks....
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Feb 13, 2008
Author: Christine
Post Date: 2008-02-13 19:56:40 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 8700
Comments: 359

By voting for any one of them, you support and lend legitimacy to the fraud. Isn't it time we say no and no more?

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  

Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 332.

#44. To: christine (#0)

christine....I think it's not so much a sell-out as the age old dilemma of voting one's conscience vs voting AGAINST rather than for. I like ron paul, mostly for his anti-war views, but as I have stated here many times, I'm a bleeding heart liberal and my candidate was dennis kucinich. that presented a struggle for me - vote for him, knowing he couldn't win, or vote against someone else. just about the time I decided to vote my conscience he dropped out. so much for my conscience.

I want someone to get us out of this stupid and morally wrong war, and all the evil trappings, like torture and the gutting of our rights, that accompany it. I think I am in agreement with most, if not all, here about that. where we digress is that I believe more in social programs than I think many here do. I do a lot of volunteer work and I just can't deny the need. I wish programs to help the poor weren't necessary, but I believe strongly that they are. I hate paying taxes but if I didn't, I would probably pay as much or more to help the needy. do I think government is the best entity to do this? not really, but it's probably the only one with the clout to make it happen. do I think it's efficient? no. I just don't see the alternative.

anyway, I enjoy posting and reading here. I generally run in ultra-liberal circles in *real life* and I love seeing other viewpoints and opening my mind to other opinions, and finding common ground, which I often do.

my original point (I really did have one!) is that if obama is the candidate against mccain, a vote for obama could be a vote *against* 100 years in iraq and a new war in iran. a vote for a third party candidate (I personally like cynthia mckinney) could be a vote that helps mccain, and promotes war. I'm not advocating for obama here. I think he's an awesome speaker but I haven't seen much substance beyond that. he's not my candidate. but he's likely to get my vote if it's against mccain, who I really don't much care for. so that was my point. saying no and no more could feel personally good, but cause unwanted repercussions. sometimes you have to vote AGAINST, not for.

I read recently somewhere (here maybe?) that this whole national election circus is designed to distract people from the elections that really will impact their lives, local elections. those are probably what we all should focus on while the dog and pony show plays out. my 2 cents :)

kiki  posted on  2008-02-13   22:03:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

if obama is the candidate against mccain, a vote for obama could be a vote *against* 100 years in iraq and a new war in iran. a vote for a third party candidate (I personally like cynthia mckinney) could be a vote that helps mccain, and promotes war.

and that's it in a nutshell

robin  posted on  2008-02-13   22:14:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

if obama is the candidate against mccain, a vote for obama could be a vote *against* 100 years in iraq and a new war in iran. a vote for a third party candidate (I personally like cynthia mckinney) could be a vote that helps mccain, and promotes war.

While I'm thinking of it, I have some ocean front property in New Mexico I'm looking to unload...

FOH  posted on  2008-02-13   22:23:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I think kiki expressed the dilemma very well.

Do you prefer a McCain presidency then? Would it be good for your real-estate endeavors?

robin  posted on  2008-02-13   22:27:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Do you prefer a McCain presidency then? Would it be good for your real-estate endeavors?

Any one of the 3 will give you the exact same thing.

Hussein Obama will be given the reason for war and he'll do his lord's will.

They're all going to give you Amnesty and the North American Union.

Why support ANY of them? Just to be cool? I don't get it. There is no 'lesser evil' at this point.

They're all pure wickedness. Why don't you people see this (I might not want to know the answer, it's occurred to me)?

FOH  posted on  2008-02-13   22:30:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Hussein Obama will be given the reason for war and he'll do his lord's will.

God willing, we've had our last "messianic" President who receives his marching orders directly from the Almighty.

iconoclast  posted on  2008-02-14   10:11:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

God willing, we've had our last "messianic" President who receives his marching orders directly from the Almighty.

Obama has a different "almighty" he takes orders from along with Hitlery (and they're both equally vile)...and McCain takes orders from gremlins that live in his twisted and sick mind...not much difference as I see it. I will NOT vote for any Establishment fascist candidate. Period. The only moral thing to do is vote third party..

Saying you'll vote for a fascist lesser of two evils because a 3rd party is a wasted vote...your implication....is, and has always been, a fool's folly and an immoral action.

That's as nicely as I can possibly call you an idiot. ooops...

IndieTX  posted on  2008-02-14   10:18:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Saying you'll vote for a fascist lesser of two evils because a 3rd party is a wasted vote...your implication....is, and has always been, a fool's folly and an immoral action.

For the life of me I can't figure out what you and the myriad cynics here who have totally given up on the political system are doing on a political discussion forum.

Shouldn't you all be in dank basement rooms building bombs and schemes? Or, are you just chronic bitchers?

What a joy you must be to live with. I'd tell you to get a dog, but I love dogs too much.

iconoclast  posted on  2008-02-14   17:38:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

For the life of me I can't figure out what you and the myriad cynics here who have totally given up on the political system are doing on a political discussion forum.

It's called free speech, and I wouldn't call what you discuss politics. I'd put it in the realm of fantasy. Come Nov. you will be ruled by either Hillary or Obama. That's the deal so please stop bitching.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-02-14   17:47:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Come Nov. you will be ruled by either Hillary or Obama. That's the deal so please stop bitching.

Yeah, and I've made my choice ... Obama ... wasn't at all tough, and I'm acting on it.

The rest of you are bitchin ... and intend to stay home, lodge a useless protest vote, or shoot somebody.

You may chalk it up to free speech but do you surround yourself with negative, do nothing bitchers? Or, is that why you retreat to here?

iconoclast  posted on  2008-02-14   18:23:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Yeah, and I've made my choice ... Obama ... wasn't at all tough, and I'm acting on it.

Great choice.

What is it about him that suggests he'd be any less of the same poison, and what assurance can you offer that your vote will be counted?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-02-14   19:27:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

What is it about him that suggests he'd be any less of the same poison

I humbly refer you to #304.

what assurance can you offer that your vote will be counted?

You devil you, have you somehow located the box in which I placed my ballot? ;-)

iconoclast  posted on  2008-02-14   20:29:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I humbly refer you to #304.

And I sir, humbly refer to you as The Duped One, not to be mistaken in any way with the great Jackie Gleason.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-02-14   20:36:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

And I sir, humbly refer to you as The Duped One,

Krauthammer has a column in today's Washington Post attacking Obama. People who fall for his kind of lies are the duped ones.

aristeides  posted on  2008-02-15   7:23:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Krauthammer has a column in today's Washington Post attacking Obama.

HERE:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp- dyn/content/article/2008/02/14/AR2008021403105.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

"...Obama has an astonishingly empty paper trail. He's going around issuing promissory notes on the future that he can't possibly redeem. Promises to heal the world with negotiations with the likes of Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Promises to transcend the conundrums of entitlement reform that require real and painful trade-offs and that have eluded solution for a generation. Promises to fund his other promises by a rapid withdrawal from an unpopular war -- with the hope, I suppose, that the (presumed) resulting increase in American prestige would compensate for the chaos to follow..."

Krauthammer may be correct, but I thought the piece was lacking in substantiation of his opinion. And I'm no McHillabama fan.

angle  posted on  2008-02-15   8:04:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#333. To: angle (#332)

The super-Zionists don't like Obama. Hence columns like Krauthammer's.

aristeides  posted on  2008-02-15 08:18:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

What was done to Colin Powell will be done to Mr. Oh-Bomb-Us, it's an orderly transformation from gentleman to step-n-fetchit.

noone222  posted on  2008-02-15 09:30:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Krauthammer may be correct, but I thought the piece was lacking in substantiation of his opinion.

That never gives him pause.

He's not a journalist, he's an evil little Zionist propagandist.

iconoclast  posted on  2008-02-15 15:14:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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