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Title: The Myths Of Christian Fundamentalism
Source:
Rense.com
URL Source: http://www.rense.com/general81/fund.htm
Published: Mar 1, 2008
Author: Ken Adachi
Post Date: 2008-03-01 07:02:26 by Zoroaster
Keywords: None
Views: 859
Comments: 51
The Myths Of Christian Fundamentalism By Ken Adachi Editor - Educate-Yourself.org 3-1-8 Normally, I would not expound on this subject. I don't believe in wearing your religious beliefs on your sleeve and I don't approve of trying to push your convictions upon others, however, I feel it's necessary to expose teachings -delivered within the framework of religious instruction or Biblical instruction- which are untrue and ultimately lead to harm for those who subscribe to them. I'm referring to the myths of Christian fundamentalism. A belief is not the same thing as knowledge. A belief is an idea that we are conditioned to believe is true, yet we possess no concrete way to know or prove to ourselves (or to others) that it is true. In order to accept a belief as true, you must first possess faith we are told. But all faith is blind faith by definition and that's the rub. All victims of belief manipulation are first convinced that they must possess faith in order to be 'saved'. But faith in what? Faith in whatever the preacher says is the "Word of God" while holding up one of the 650 different versions of the "Holy" Bible and declaring it to be the unchallenged written Word of God. I can get you to believe inanything, if you will first surrender your intellect and common sense and allow me to supplant them with a firm conviction in the notion of "faith." That's why preacher-propagandists spend so much effort touting the supposed virtue and desirability of possessing "faith" and will repeat well-worn Biblical mantras like "Oh ye of little faith" or "doubting Thomas" to reinforce the idea that blind acceptance-based on faith- is a good thing , while entertaining any sort of doubt (meaning questioning the validity of what's being shoved down your throat) is a bad thing . How reprehensible it is to treat people in this way, yet that is the mind wash that's being pushed upon a very large group of people in America who refer to themselves as "Christians." But are these self-described Christianstruly followers of Christ and do they emulate His example and adhere to His teachings? I don't think so. If anything, they are grossly unaware of the true teachings of Jesus Christ. They are mislead by false teachers into deception and calculated manipulation. They may refer to themselves as non-denominational, or charismatic, or evangelical Christians, but ultimately they are fundamentalist Christians and they are the most duped people on the face of the earth. . Being a fundamentalist anything is undesirable because a fundamentalist is a zealot-and zealots can be dangerous. A zealot believes in a set of acquired postulates and will go to extremes to coerce his beliefs upon others. The false postulate that the fundamentalist Christian has an obligation, or duty, or mission to "save" other people on behalf of "God" or Jesus is an affront to the free will and self-determination that every soul in God's creation is entitled to-and no one has the right to try to impose his beliefs or will upon others. I recently saw a documentary on Mormons on public television. It may have been Frontline or The American Experience, I can't remember, but it was a revealing expose of the underside of the Church of Later Day Saints and their evangelical 'mission' to brainwash young men into giving up two years of their young lives to go to a far-away place and engage in the very sort of un-welcomed coercion that I'm describing here. One disillusioned ex-missionary remarked that after two solid years of daily accosting, haranguing, and 'evangelizing', he had not succeeded in obtaining even a single convert (what a surprise!). Had this individual retained the capacity tothink for himself and not allow himself to be blindly brainwashed, he would have recognized that Jesus never engaged in 'evangelical' behavior. The people who listened to Jesus sought Him out, not the other way around. Jesus gained followers by example and the wisdom of his counsel, not by any form of coercion (if even one self-described fundamentalist Christian reading these words acquires an understanding or realization that's it's fundamentally WRONG to try and force your beliefs on others-the very core of "evangelism"- then I will have succeeded in serving humanity with this article). Evangelism, however, is not the only false postulate that Christian fundamentalists embrace. There are many destructive notions that are seeded into the fundamentalist psyche that cause him to engage in behavior or hold beliefs that lead to strife and conflict. These include the concepts of "judgment", (whether against others on the earthly plane, or the judgment that they assume they will face when they arrive at the Pearly Gates) and the concept of "sin", which carries a debt of guilt and the need to atone in some punishing way. That atonement includes the idea of burning away in Hell for eternity (or burning for a time in the halfway house, Purgatory) which is offered up to impressionable youngsters in order to scare them straight so they in turn will pass the Fear torch on to their children ( and on and on it goes in a continuous Merry-Go-Round of pulpit-inspired deception, generation after generation). At the heart of Christian fundamentalist myths is the idea that man is a lowly sinner who must be "saved" by the grace of God (or Jesus) in order to obtain salvation and buy a ticket to Heaven. This concept (which includes the myth of Original Sin) is erroneous and leads one to think of himself as being separate and detached from the Creator We are not detached from the Creator. We are part of the Creator and therefore we possess the capacity to create. It riles the Christian fundamentalist dogmatist to no end to confront the notion that his lowly, unworthy "sinner" is possessed of a divine nature and can create himself, but this is exactly what Jesus told us when he said "you can do all that I have done, and more." Is that not so? Therefore, we have a divine nature, since we have God dwelling within us at all times, whether it appears that way or not. Every single human being possess a divine nature and we are ALL sons and daughters of God-without exception. Yet, consider the rank hypocrisy of Christian clergymen everywhere who refer on one hand to their congregation as "children of God" while in the same breath declare that Jesus in the ONLY Son of God. You can't have it both ways. (By the way, Jesus never said He was the Son of God. He referred to Himself as the "Son of Man". The Roman emperor Constantine decided that Christ was the "Son of God" in 323 AD at the Council of Nicea). What we see in the mirror is a reflection of a fleshy garment which we wear while on the physical plane, but it is not the essence of who we are. We are an immortal consciousness, a Being of Light, who is temporarilyhoused in that fleshy garment while on earth to learn spiritual lessons. Besides the skin we wear, we also have other "bodies" nested within our form like layers of an onion. We have a sensual 'body' that can be so captivated by pleasurable sensations that it can lead us to addictive and obsessive behavior such as drug addiction, alcohol addiction, sex addiction, or food addiction, if allowed to run unchecked and uncontrolled by our inner consciousness. We have an emotional 'body' that can respond wildly to the stimulus of emotions and especially to the dictates of the ego unless we recognize its influence and can learn to contain it. This is the 'body' that is most manipulated by Christian preacher-propagandists who employ the use of charged emotions (the fired-up emotional delivery of the preacher, the power of music toemotionally sweep us off our feet, the powerful dynamics of group reverie (or pseudo-reverie) to suspend thinking and carry us along on a river of emotionalism) to install their Illuminati-inspired British Israel programming in their highly suggestible and pre-primed congregations. This is precisely what British Israel con artists like Benny Hinn, John Hagee, Paul & Jan Crouch, Rod Parsley, Jesse Duplantis, etc, etc., are doing with their congregants. They are using the facade of Christianity to install ideas and beliefs (E.g. Christian Zionism) that will ultimately lead to the destruction of Christianity and the imposition of the Satanic New World Order. Duped fundamentalist congregants are not going to be able to recognize or free themselves from this deception unless they begin to temper the hypnotic influence of emotionalism and start engaging their under-utilizedintellectual "body" to discern and examine more carefully what they are being taught as the indisputable "Will of God." They are being brainwashed and manipulated to serve the agenda of the New World Order and they don't know it. Thankfully, a few books have been published recently which address this issue head on and more Christian pastors-who still have their heads screwed on straight- are now beginning to publicly lambaste the deceptions being promoted by the likes of Hagee or Hinn, but much more awakening needs to take place within the ranks of congregants themselves. They are the ones who are funding and underpinning the very scaffolding upon which they will hang themselves. Ken Adachi
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#1. To: Zoroaster (#0)
OK -- first, if this guy thinks that Mormonism is some variety of "Christian fundamentalism", he is as confused as can be. Second, regarding evangelism: if he is gonna use his 'understanding' of Christ as a model, he might actually want size up His (Christ's) words. Matthew 28:19 19"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..." John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 15:18-25 "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.'[a] If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the One who sent me. 22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin. 23He who hates me hates my Father as well. 24If I had not done among them what no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. But now they have seen these miracles, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: 'They hated me without reason." Those who make a case against Christianity frequently flub up when they cite their own ignorant notions about it. BTW, I *do* agree that Hagee, Hinn, et al. are abosolutely reprehensible. But not all preachers or evangelists are.
That was as far as I got with the article but I have to tell you that Christian's have a duty to witness to others but no Christian--at least none that I know--believe they have a right to "impose" their beliefs or will upon others. The Bible does not teach anyone that they have a right to try to force anyone to believe anything.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Excellent post Old Fud.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Thanks. I even made me a new word: abosolutely...
That's a good one. You can add absotively too. ;^) I can't take any credit for that one, heard someone use it a long time ago and never forgot it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Your brand of Christianity, fundamentalism, does not absord; it repluses.
Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.
Excellent response, Old Fud. As is usual, there's a broadbrush approach that simply doesn't wash. It seems like the broader the brush, the more careless the painter.
Turn your back on the sun and you only see the shadows.
You've nailed that diatribe quite nicely. I wonder if this writer gets his shorts in such a wad with sporting event fans who, when their team brings home the big prize, set fire to the city. Not likely, cause no one seems to have a hard on for cleaning up sports. Had the writer taken the time to actually read scriptures, he would have found disciples were told to spread the gospel, and if not accepted, they were to dust off their sandals and go elsewhere--- they were not told to beat the shit out of anyone, or hammer the gospel into them. I have no doubt there are zealots for any cause, and they generally give a black eye to their cause....whether the cause is good or bad.
Turn your back on the sun and you only see the shadows.
Hey, if this writer can make up stuff, why can't you make up a word?
Turn your back on the sun and you only see the shadows.
Fundamentalists gave America eight years of Genghis W. Bush. With McCain or Obama on the horizon, it looks like your kind has doomed America.
Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.
ROTFLMAO! "My kind".........puleeze. Don't make me throw up this early in the day.
Turn your back on the sun and you only see the shadows.
I am articulate and have a loud voice that would make a megaphone blush. I would harangue back at the assholes who would spoil beautiful summer days at Pioneer Square in Portland, Oregon by "witnessing" loudly at us sitting there enjoying the sun and watching the pretty panties run. I have flustered, frustrated and angered a few Bible masturbation masters doing this, even got one to leave ten minutes after he started in extreme frustration. These people started using goons to physically intimidate people like me to try to get us to stop. Some did. I refused inviting them to go ahead and do what they inferred they would do and I got louder, and meaner. One did. I let him push and kick while I ignored it (and the very real pain). He got charged with assault, was banned from the Square, and they started putting these clowns in a designated spot to do this away from the benches and steps to avoid future confrontations. I did feel like cleaning this guy's clock. But I am an activist skilled in non- violent civil disobedience and had the eye on the prize (peace and quiet) and got it. I usually will pass an ass clown doing this and scream, "SEND DOWN ANOTHER ONE, WE'LL NAIL HIM UP TOO!", or a similar statement of endearment. OK, they have free speech rights? I do to, and you can't shut me up when I have my inner fires of righteousness going. So, I'll never die in bed. That works for me. These clowns are only effective against cowards. Someone thumps the hoy babble at you, yell back. They aren't the only ones with the right of free speech.
So, in your mind, simply to speak the truth in love is a repulsive thing? I was not talking about browbeating anyone or telling them they have to believe anything. If you went and told someone that 2+2=4 and they refused to accept it, would you not just tell them to have a nice day and be on your way? Nowhere is a Christian commanded to force others to believe what they believe. In fact, it is just about impossible to force someone to believe things they choose not to believe. The only duty of a Christian is to witness, not to harangue people and tell them they "must" do or believe anything. Have a nice day.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He was a real testimony to WWJD. How sad. Good job, btw.
'He will make Cheney look like Gandhi.' I wonder if this writer gets his shorts in such a wad with sporting event fans who, when their team brings home the big prize, set fire to the city. Not likely, cause no one seems to have a hard on for cleaning up sports. Had the writer taken the time to actually read scriptures, he would have found disciples were told to spread the gospel, and if not accepted, they were to dust off their sandals and go elsewhere--- they were not told to beat the shit out of anyone, or hammer the gospel into them. I have no doubt there are zealots for any cause, and they generally give a black eye to their cause....whether the cause is good or bad. Thank you very much. Anyone who has very much knowledge of the Bible knows that Christ never told anyone to try to force anyone to believe on him. It is exactly as you say, the disciples were told to tell people the good news but nowhere were they told to beat anyone up who refused to believe it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Delicious.
I'm curious, Zoraster: is there a non-fundie 'brand' of Christianity you adhere to, and if so, what is it? It seems to me that the mainline churches became irrelevant forty ot fifty years ago because they drifted from 'fundamentalism'.
There is a double standard. When Fundamentalist Religious kooks force their reliigion upon the rest of us by force of law, this isn't really forcing their religion on the rest of us. So when the nut jobs mandate that their creation myths be taught in public school science classes, along side the findings of the world scientific community, and in contradiction of the world scientific community, this isn't really forcing their religion upon us. They have a perfect right to use the courts to force our children to believe that the earth was populated by the evil alien Xenon - because L. Ron Hubbard, as a divine being, is always right. Likewise the can use the courts of force our children to believe that the universe was regurgitated by a giant turtle or the earth was created in seven days by an old man who lives in the clouds.
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Title: Aristotle versus the Big Jew in the Sky Source: Essay by Zoroaster URL Source: [None] Published: May 14, 2005 Author: Zoroaster Post Date: 2005-05-14 08:25:42 by Zoroaster Keywords: Aristotle, versus Views: 93 Comments: 76 Aristotle’s Prime Mover evokes motion, not some big Jew in the sky. The commonly accepted model of the beginning of our universe, often referred to as the “Big Bang,” suggests that it began between 15 and 18 billion years ago in an infinitely compact and singular state, enclosing a space even smaller than an atomic particle. If Aristotle were alive today, he would say the Prime Mover caused the Big Bang, not the tribal war god of ancient Israel. According to Aristotle the Prime Mover is the Prefect First Cause responsible for moving objects, which, in turn, move other objects: The Prime Mover is always at absolute rest, beyond time and space, motionless and changeless in perfection, omniscient and eternal, everywhere and nowhere. Aristotle perceived God through motion. To my knowledge, he never claimed he understood or spoke to God. He was no different than the rest of humanity, pathetic creatures trapped in time and space, really, having only intuitive awareness of the Unknowable. The conquests of Alexander, Aristotle’s pupil, brought Jews on the world stage. They brought with them, in contrast to the Prime Mover, Yahweh, the fiendish god of Jews, a kind of divine superiority soothing to their macerated egos because he chose them as his very own and set them above their betters, and they also brought with them their cunning in peddling their superstitions to cheat the unwary. In the centuries between Aristotle and Constantine, the horrible Jewish god was to "make folly of the wisdom of this world," thus negating all learning, all culture, and repudiating reason itself. Yahweh and the radicals of an initially obscure Jewish sect promised to envy and malice that the rich and powerful would be tortured in Hell forever and forever, if they did not empty their pockets to the profit of ranting priests. To the dregs of the Empire that was Roman only in name, Christianity was what liquor is to alcoholics. With Irenaeus the persecution of Gnostics and fierce, ecclesiastical intolerance to any other personal religious beliefs became the driving force of Christianity. Though Marcion (140 ce) sought to dump the Old Testament from Christianity because he felt Yahweh was incompatible with the Loving Father proclaimed by Jesus, he still attributed to Yahweh the status of a lesser, creative god, so there was some credence to Irenaeus’s charge of dualism. If Marcion were alive today, I suspect he’d call Yahweh a gruesome Jewish fairytale and be done with it, thus avoiding Irenaeus’s complaints. Valentinus, on the other hand speaks of a God who is: “(Root) of the All, the (Ineffable One who) dwells in the Monad (He dwells alone) in silence . . .since, after all (he was) a Monad, and no one was before him. . .” A Valentinian Exposition ww.19-23, in NHL 436 Elaine Pagels writes in The Gnostic Gospels that according to a third Valentinian text, the Interpretation of Knowledge, Christ taught that “Your Father, who is in heaven, is one. No dualism in Valentinus. His concept of God was much like Aristotle’s Prime Mover, i.e., a Prefect God who does not play favorites. If Constantine had not had his vision at Malvian Bridge (312 ce), Mithraism, not Christianity, might well have become the official religion of the Roman Empire. Based on the Iranian god of the sun, justice, contract and war, Mithraism was more popular than Christianity at the time. But Christianity prevailed, and it’s no coincidence that the brand of Christianity that the Fathers put over was one which lugged with it the "Old Testament" and identified Yahweh, the big Jew up in the sky, as the Christian god, or that the first concern of the fathers, as soon as they got their hands on governmental power, was to exterminate the Marconists, the Manichaeans, and all the other Christian sects that refused to accept as their god the fiend of the "Old Testament.” The slaughter went on well into the Middle Ages. In 1209 Pope Innocence III sicced an army of some thirty thousand knights and foot soldiers on the Languedoc—the mountainous northeastern foothills of the Pyrenees in what is now southern France. These Christian soldiers put a whole population to the sword in what became known as Albigensian Crusade. The extermination was so vast and terrible that it may well constitute the first case of “genocide” in modern Europeans history. What awful crime had these peaceful Cathars committed? The heresy of dualism: they believed in a good god of love, and an evil one of the material world. By the time of the Reformation, Gnostics were either exterminated or driven into hiding. The Protestant Churches, however, proved to be just as intolerant as the Catholic when it came to blind faith as opposed to inner revelation. An increasing number of "Fundamental Christians" have recently felt the need to defend Christianity by trashing anyone who speaks out in any way against the Bible. What it all boils down to, folks, is not exclusively religious or political augments but who’s in charge, and it’s the same old crowd. You can see them every Sunday morning on one-eyed Jew, screaming “God of Israel!” again and again, till they’re blue in the face. -Z-
Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.
At the heart of Christian fundamentalist myths is the idea that man is a lowly sinner who must be "saved" by the grace of God (or Jesus) in order to obtain salvation difficult to get much past that bit of pompous ignorance.
President Wilson signed the Federal Reserve Act on December 23, 1913. History proved that on that day, the Constitution ceased to be the governing covenant of the American people, and our liberties were handed over to a small group of international bankers. - Secrets of the Federal Reserve by Eustace Mullins
At the heart of Christian fundamentalist myths is the idea that man is a lowly sinner who must be "saved" by the grace of God (or Jesus) in order to obtain salvation difficult to get much past that bit of pompous ignorance. "Pompous ignorance" it may be but it pales in comparison to "The Jews Are Chosen" nonsense, nonsense that could end civilization.
Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.
Zoroaster: Nowhere in the Bible does God ever call the Jews His chosen. He called the children of Jacob/Israel His chosen, but there were no Jews to be found in those days. In addition, Hebrews, Chapter 8, notes that the Old Covenant has been done away with in favor of the New Covenant. If the Old Covenant is done away with, then so too are any thoughts that the Jews remain His chosen people. I just thought I'd pass that along to you. RO
If God is really "GOD" ... what makes any man think GOD needs his help converting others ... the Creator of this universe giggles at man's wisdom, and laughs out loud at his over-inflated ego.
And the men who loan money to governments, so called, for the purpose of enabling the latter to rob, enslave, and murder their people, are among the greatest villains that the world has ever seen. And they as much deserve to be hunted and killed (if they cannot otherwise be got rid of) as any slave traders, robbers, or pirates that ever lived. ... Lysander Spooner
Nowhere in the Bible does God ever call the Jews His chosen. He called the children of Jacob/Israel His chosen, but there were no Jews to be found in those days. In addition, Hebrews, Chapter 8, notes that the Old Covenant has been done away with in favor of the New Covenant. If the Old Covenant is done away with, then so too are any thoughts that the Jews remain His chosen people. I just thought I'd pass that along to you. RO You're correct, though I stand by my statement in which I did not quote scripture. I was raised in a fundamentalist family; in fact, my grandfather was a well-known evangelist in his time. He preached the Darby heresey and it was often asserted, by both he and the congregation, that Jews were Chosen, Gods's pets, if you will. I'd venture to say if you'd ask John Hagee that today, he'd tell you that the Jews are God's chosen. In Deuteronomy (I'm sure you can find the exact verse) it reads: "The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the people on earth to be his people, his treasured possessions." You're right, it doesn't name Jews, but since Jews are basically all that remain today of ancient Israel, it's easily to extrapolate they are the Choosen." We could argue for days about the nonsense of God's pets, but I see no point in it. Best Regards. -Z-
Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.
You think God "laughs" at people for following the teachings of his son? That is an interesting hypothesis but not one I believe.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. You think God "laughs" at people for following the teachings of his son? That is an interesting hypothesis but not one I believe. Where did I say that God laughs at people for following the teachings of his son ??? I also want to mention I think people often blame the Bible for the idiocy promoted by the flakes and fakes calling themselves priests and preachers. Witnessing more hypocrisy every day within the so-called church than in the secular world. Trips to Jerusalem, the seat of Judaic satanism and home of the war mongering murderers called Israelis, the selling of Jerusalem sand and other momentos of ridiculousness, calling it holy. Bringing God down to the pitiful level of human understanding.
And the men who loan money to governments, so called, for the purpose of enabling the latter to rob, enslave, and murder their people, are among the greatest villains that the world has ever seen. And they as much deserve to be hunted and killed (if they cannot otherwise be got rid of) as any slave traders, robbers, or pirates that ever lived. ... Lysander Spooner
I think it was this that gave me the first clue that you think God laughs at people for following the teachings of his son. "If God is really "GOD" ... what makes any man think GOD needs his help converting others ... the Creator of this universe giggles at man's wisdom, and laughs out loud at his over-inflated ego." Beginning in the book of Mark, chapter 16, verse 14, Jesus talks sternly to his disciples for doubting those who had seen him alive following his resurrection. It says that he "...upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen." In the following verse he tells them to "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." Do you believe that this commandment was only for the disciples he was talking to at that very minute? He then said, in verse 16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." But some people wonder about those who may have never heard of God or Jesus. And they say things like, "So what about people living in the jungle somewhere? Are you Christians saying that they can't go to heaven because of where he was born?" And the answer of course is no. "The Bible tells us that God doesn't work that way. We understand that God is perfectly loving, perfectly holy, and perfectly just. Therefore, it's against His nature to "hide the ball" on salvation, or condemn someone who is ignorant of His truth. In fact, scripture declares that God is loving and patient, "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (II Peter 3:9). God is a perfectly righteous judge. Although we don't understand all of His ways, He somehow reveals the simple truth of the Gospel to everyone throughout the world. In Africa, missionaries often tell how Christ reveals Himself in nature. In India, it's been estimated that half the conversions to Christianity are a result of Jesus simply revealing Himself in a dream or vision. Whatever the form of revelation, God holds each of us accountable for what we know and what we've done with that knowledge." EVERYONE is accountable to God. No one is beyond his love and his mercy.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. .... and on the seventh day, the Lord said "I want you all to take a break, you've been screwing me over for six straight days." He died on day ten, if I recall correctly.
Keep Jesus Off My Penis
Protection? Condoms still spread herpes and genital warts. There goes his thesis. It's not very enlightened.
I think we are looking at someone who has deeply embraced the "I'm a lesbian in a man's body" concept. Bare midriff. Think it's waxed or lased?
He died on day ten, if I recall correctly. A while back a caller to C-Span said that religion is a creation of man, not God. I tend to agree since God could never screw something up as bad as man has confounded religion.
Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.
I don't know. I am not that familiar with this guy. And as a guy generally interested in only puting part of my body into that of a heterosexual woman, I don't identify well with desires to be a lesbian instead of a man. Though being I live in Eugene, Oregon, I'm sure I can find someone who could tell me about this. ;-)
I think you would have to agree, JD, with the idea that there is a difference between true evangelizing and the 'bringing them to Jesus' crowd. The first, of course, is just spreading the gospel as Scripture says, the shining the light of God's Word. The latter is arrogance on the part of the sayer, in that Jesus Christ himself said no man comes to the Father but through him (the him being Jesus)--he is the 'drawing' factor like the light bulb to the moth. It is NOT man. The 'bringing them to Jesus' crowd never leave the security of their church building to go where those who need Jesus the most are--they don't seem to recognize that Jesus also said that doctors don't minister to healty people but to the sick. Generally, the 'sick' are not sitting in the pews of some church building......they're in a bar, a jail, on the street, around the corner, etc. Further, the idea of altar calls should be revealing. First, I don't believe in them--the public spectacle, the saying of some sort of standardized repeat after me "I'm a sinner....." prayer. Especially not after some person 'preaches' what is being passed off as the gospel today. A convert wouldn't have any idea as to what they were getting into. Secondly, it seems as though altar calls are 'coup counting' ceremonies for preachers. I'm like noone222......I do believe God giggles/laughs at mankind's arrogance. God, to be The God, is capable of anything, everything, or nothing. I believe when mankind thinks they can destroy planet earth, He has to laugh. It's HIS planet and He'll decide what happens--when and if and by whom.
Turn your back on the sun and you only see the shadows.
He used a phrase about feminism that conceivably could be applied to more than just abortion rights, but doesn't clarify. Probably hasn't been through a divorce with children and a liar.
I see nothing wrong with altar calls because the angels in heaven rejoice when someone accepts Christ. Not saying that you have to go to an altar in a church somewhere to be saved because many people have been saved who weren't anywhere near an altar. But the Bible states quite explicitly that those who deny Jesus before men he will deny them before the Father. Mat 10:32 ¶ Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. None of that says anything about browbeating anyone or trying to force your beliefs on them. If someone is in church, and is of "legal age" the general assumption is that he (or she) is there of their own free will and the altar call gives them the opportunity, if they choose to accept it, to publicly acknowledge Christ. No one is forced to go, at least not in my experience.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Yoou missed my point, I believe, but that is OK. I agree totally on the brow- beating---you can't beat Christ into anyone.
Turn your back on the sun and you only see the shadows.
I have never believed the lie Christianity is. I am guilty of posturing to avoid flack as a kid and went along with being dropped off at church by my mother with my siblings, but I never felt free until I dropped the pretense that I believed that crap. Christianity is just meant to keep people assimilated, meek and accepting of oppression and is largely useless. The Bible has some good writings in it, and yes, I had been forced to study it; but it is censored with some of the best of it cut out of it. It is a lie by omission. Christianity and Islam are much alike and the similarities of intolerance, oppression and violence both deal in. I am only amused when I see a funlessmentalcase (fundamentalist) Christian scream and rage about the horrors of Islam. I know it must suck for them to have to look so hard in the mirror when they see the joys of Islam at work in the world when it is doing it's worst. There is nothing Islam has done or is doing that does not have a parallel to actions Christians have been guilty of over the centuries. I have been in situations where a social lie would of helped me and I could have made good use of Christianity as a cover, but I much prefer being bluntly honest about my sense of religion. I am glad it works for you and I don't begrudge your faith. In fact, I would fight the efforts of anyone to suppress Christianity, Judaism, Islam or any other major faith. But as for myself, I want nothing to do with it or any other major religion in the world today.
You are entitled to believe as you will. No one can force you to believe that which you choose not to believe and I don't try to do that. I witness to those who want to listen and if they choose not to listen or accept I have still done what I feel is required of me. I don't argue about religion.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. I can respect your approach, but I am here to tell you it is not shared by everybody. I was thinking the other day while I listened to choir practice at the Salvation Army site my employer serves a meal to those who need it at how the only Christian song I remember from going to Mass as a kid was one an angry Catholic Deacon had made us kids memorize before we went to after church catechism. He badgered and bullied us snarling the whole time how horrible it was to sit through Mass watching us ungrateful brats not sing like we should of. That this was a one time thing they let him do tells me that his class offended more then me and other peers sitting through this ordeal. But he can rest assured I remember this song, and I am glad too. It reminds me why I was glad enough to grow too big to be coerced into going to church.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestI recently saw a documentary on Mormons on public television. It may have been Frontline or The American Experience, I can't remember, but it was a revealing expose of the underside of the Church of Later Day Saints and their evangelical 'mission' to brainwash young men into giving up two years of their young lives to go to a far-away place and engage in the very sort of un-welcomed coercion that I'm describing here. One disillusioned ex-missionary remarked that after two solid years of daily accosting, haranguing, and 'evangelizing', he had not succeeded in obtaining even a single convert (what a surprise!). Had this individual retained the capacity tothink for himself and not allow himself to be blindly brainwashed, he would have recognized that Jesus never engaged in 'evangelical' behavior. The people who listened to Jesus sought Him out, not the other way around. Jesus gained followers by example and the wisdom of his counsel, not by any form of coercion (if even one self-described fundamentalist Christian reading these words acquires an understanding or realization that's it's fundamentally WRONG to try and force your beliefs on others-the very core of "evangelism"- then I will have succeeded in serving humanity with this article).
#2. To: Zoroaster (#0)
The false postulate that the fundamentalist Christian has an obligation, or duty, or mission to "save" other people on behalf of "God" or Jesus is an affront to the free will and self-determination that every soul in God's creation is entitled to-and no one has the right to try to impose his beliefs or will upon others.
Lord Acton
#3. To: Old Fud (#1)
Lord Acton
#4. To: James Deffenbach (#3)
#5. To: Old Fud (#4)
Lord Acton
#6. To: James Deffenbach (#2)
The Bible does not teach anyone that they have a right to try to force anyone to believe anything.
#7. To: Old Fud (#1)
#8. To: James Deffenbach (#2)
That was as far as I got with the article but I have to tell you that Christian's have a duty to witness to others but no Christian--at least none that I know--believe they have a right to "impose" their beliefs or will upon others. The Bible does not teach anyone that they have a right to try to force anyone to believe anything.
#9. To: Old Fud (#4)
#10. To: rowdee (#9)
#11. To: Zoroaster (#10)
#12. To: James Deffenbach (#2)
#13. To: Zoroaster (#6)
Your brand of Christianity, fundamentalism, does not absord; it repluses.
Lord Acton
#14. To: Ferret Mike (#12)
I let him push and kick while I ignored it (and the very real pain). He got charged with assault, was banned from the Square, and they started putting these clowns in a designated spot to do this away from the benches and steps to avoid future confrontations.
U.S. conservative pundit Pat Buchanan, imagining presidential hopeful John McCain in the White House.
#15. To: rowdee (#8)
You've nailed that diatribe quite nicely.
Lord Acton
#16. To: James Deffenbach (#5)
absotively
#17. To: Zoroaster (#6)
Your brand of Christianity, fundamentalism, does not absord; it repluses.
#18. To: Zoroaster (#0)
#19. To: Old Fud (#17)
#20. To: Zoroaster (#0)
#21. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#20)
#22. To: Zoroaster (#21)
"...it pales in comparison to "The Jews Are Chosen" nonsense, nonsense that could end civilization.:
#23. To: James Deffenbach (#2)
The false postulate that the fundamentalist Christian has an obligation, or duty, or mission to "save" other people on behalf of "God" or Jesus is an affront to the free will and self-determination that every soul in God's creation is entitled to-and no one has the right to try to impose his beliefs or will upon others.
#24. To: ReallyOrnery (#22)
"...it pales in comparison to "The Jews Are Chosen" nonsense, nonsense that could end civilization.: Zoroaster:
#25. To: noone222 (#23)
Lord Acton
#26. To: James Deffenbach (#25)
the Creator of this universe giggles at man's wisdom, and laughs out loud at his over-inflated ego. [What I said is nothing like waht you implied I said]
#27. To: noone222 (#26)
Lord Acton
#28. To: Zoroaster (#0)
#29. To: nobody (#28)
--
#30. To: Ferret Mike (#29)
#31. To: Ferret Mike (#29)
(Edited)
#32. To: nobody (#28)
.... and on the seventh day, the Lord said "I want you all to take a break, you've been screwing me over for six straight days."
#33. To: nobody (#31)
#34. To: James Deffenbach, noone222 (#27)
#35. To: Ferret Mike (#33)
#36. To: rowdee (#34)
Lord Acton
#37. To: James Deffenbach (#36)
#38. To: James Deffenbach (#36)
#39. To: Ferret Mike (#38)
But as for myself, I want nothing to do with it or any other major religion in the world today.
Lord Acton
#40. To: James Deffenbach (#39)
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