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Title: 40% of American Jews "not driven by the word of God," says McCain supporter John Hagee
Source: AMERICAblog
URL Source: http://www.americablog.com/2008/03/ ... n-jews-not-driven-by-word.html
Published: Mar 3, 2008
Author: John Aravosis
Post Date: 2008-03-03 16:08:34 by aristeides
Keywords: None
Views: 6733
Comments: 172

40% of American Jews "not driven by the word of God," says McCain supporter John Hagee

by John Aravosis (DC) · 3/03/2008 12:12:00 PM ET

McCain supporter John Hagee:

I think if I could put a dividing line, the Orthodox and Conservatives who have a Torah appreciation give us wholehearted support. The rest [of Jews] who are not driven by the Word of God have a liberal agenda.

And the liberal agenda is they are pro-abortion. They're pro-homosexual. They're pro-gay marriage -- they want men to marry men and women to marry women -- and their difference with me is not really what I'm doing with Israel. Their hostility to me is poisoned by their liberalism. They take a liberal position that poisons their view of what we could be doing for Israel.

Note that a bit more than one-third of American Jews (around 41%, per the latest PEW survey) belong to the Reform (or "liberal," as Hagee would say) denomination of Judaism. More here.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 144.

#37. To: aristeides (#0)

I think if I could put a dividing line, the Orthodox and Conservatives who have a Torah appreciation give us wholehearted support. The rest [of Jews] who are not driven by the Word of God have a liberal agenda.

And the liberal agenda is they are pro-abortion. They're pro-homosexual. They're pro-gay marriage -- they want men to marry men and women to marry women -- and their difference with me is not really what I'm doing with Israel. Their hostility to me is poisoned by their liberalism. They take a liberal position that poisons their view of what we could be doing for Israel.

He DOES seem to have some grasp of one level of the issue.

FOH  posted on  2008-03-03   23:16:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

He DOES seem to have some grasp of one level of the issue.

He has the same basic grasp that any perennial sucker does for the over-used inevitably-pro-zionist ginned-up left-right extremist dialectic. What this means is he's remarkably imbecilic, even for a zionist expansionist.

nobody  posted on  2008-03-03   23:22:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The rest [of Jews] who are not driven by the Word of God have a liberal agenda.

And what grasp are you talking about?

Are you an offended liberal or Jew?

Or just your garden variety God hater (except for Allah)?

FOH  posted on  2008-03-03   23:28:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

You're quoting Hagee as if it's an excuse to ask me if I'm a liberal?

Regardless of whether you're a turdburglar who has fathered 60 aborted fetuses, zionism is still fraud, theft and murder.

nobody  posted on  2008-03-03   23:34:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

But the subject here isn't "Zionism".

What views regarding the central topic do you disagree with?

FOH  posted on  2008-03-03   23:37:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I don't like Ted Bundy types. They discredit anything they say anyway. If you weren't so unusually slow for your level of intellectual ambition, you'd have figured it out already.

nobody  posted on  2008-03-03   23:40:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

See 48.

FOH  posted on  2008-03-03   23:42:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

So you think zionists aren't all amoral. That just makes you an idiot. Not my problem, idiot.

nobody  posted on  2008-03-03   23:44:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Is God a "Zionist"?

FOH  posted on  2008-03-03   23:48:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

You're a zionist, which means you're an idiot. Thus, there's no point in discussing anything with you.

nobody  posted on  2008-03-03   23:50:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

You're a zionist, which means you're an idiot. Thus, there's no point in discussing anything with you.

If God is a "Zionist", then you can bet your last amero that I am one too.

Do you believe that God is a "Zionist"?

Oh, that's right. There is no God (outside of you being your own god).

You came out of the swamp, maybe your ancestors were hatched...

FOH  posted on  2008-03-03   23:53:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Do you believe that God is a "Zionist"?

From the Christian perspective, it truly varies. There are Christians who follow the Old Testament, and those who don't. There are Christians who follow the 10 Commandments (each one) and those who only follow some. Likewise with Jews, in that some of them are reform, and others are orthodox, and all shades in between. I don't see much earthly Zionism in the New Testament, but then again I'm not a biblical scholar.

I do see that America's constitution says nothing about the state of Israel.

I also see that the Clean Break policy is in Israel's interest and not necessarily mine.

What has become clear to me is that Christian Zionists, especially of the rapture doctrine persuasion, are very committed to using American foreign policy as an instrument of eschatology. The result of this is that they imagine the country of Israel as having defense and economic boundaries that are virtually within the extended limits of the United States.

In other words, Christian Zionists (those who believe that God's kingdom can be realized on earth by human actions) have joined themselves with Jewish Zionists, and they want to use my tax dollars, our children's blood, and our national security as a tool for propagating these beliefs. What's in it for America? I think the reactions to the 9/11 Reichstag fire speak for themselves. The Constitution, formerly under attack, post-9/11 is dead. I supported Ron Paul because he did not follow the Christian Zionist template of Tancredo and Hunter. He was willing to treat Israel as any other country on the planet: as a potential friend, but a separate country from the United States.

Until our borders are secure, the illegal alien problem is solved, our troops are withdrawn from needless foreign wars, our spending is under control, our fiscal policy has been restored, we do not even have time to spend on Israel's concerns. Anyone who advocates American policies that benefit Israel at the expense of American interests in any way deserves to be politically skewered.

The trick played on the American people in the press is that Israel's national security relates to ours. How did this happen? We have plenty of clues, and one of them is that our Homeland Security Department head is Chertoff, who has dual citizenship with Israel. Many of the loudest proponents of RealID and the Patriot Acts have been pro-Israel Jews or Christian Zionists. (Hunter being a prime example.) Ron Paul offered a way forward that permitted Israel to conduct its own foreign policy separate from ours.

But the media has done everything it can to stop that from happening. I think we know why. When push comes to shove, secular Jews in leadership positions in our Establishment tend to side with anyone who will continue to support an American foreign policy of Zionism. Until our republic is restored, all who advocate American government support for Zionism are part of the problem. Unless Christian Zionists concede that America's earthly foreign policies toward Israel are none of their concern, they're part of the problem. We see this on TOS2 every day. Somehow they could never get behind ending the Iraq war. They could never support Ron Paul. They could never support withdrawing our forces from strategic locations around the planet that benefit Israel.

An independent Israel is in everyone's interests. Without American foreign aid welfare, Israel would have to conduct a very different foreign and domestic foreign policy. As Ron Paul has suggested, if Iraq and Iran were serious threats to Israel, its troops would be doing the fighting, not ours. Without a need to defend Israel militarily, many of our self-destructive foreign policies could change overnight. We could come home from Iraq and stop threatening Iran, since these would be Israel's problems instead of ours as well.

The notion that global security required us to put Israel under our umbrella appears to be a tool of the global government advocates. One of the UN's first tasks was establishing Israel, for example. Israel managed to capture America's support during the Cold War, but when will it end? No time soon, as far as Hagee is concerned.

Hagee is part of the problem. He's in the middle of it. And he deserves to be criticized for it. He's misleading America's rapture believers into deeper and deeper associations of Israel with America's foreign policy. He might as well be working for the Council on Foreign Relations.

buckeye  posted on  2008-03-04   6:04:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I do see that America's constitution says nothing about the state of Israel.

I don't see it either, nor do I see any other nation mentioned.

Nor do I see where Christian-State World Dominance by force is found in the Bible.

The fact of the matter is, everyone has fault in this mess.

Sadly, most Christians (whether they're right, wrong or confused) would not get behind Ron Paul for lack of understanding.

It's not difficult to understand, for me at least.

FOH  posted on  2008-03-04   12:09:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Sadly, most Christians (whether they're right, wrong or confused) would not get behind Ron Paul for lack of understanding.

Its probably the case that most haven't heard of him.

Back around 1999 or 2000, when I was posting at tos1, I had a friend over in Washington state who was also a supporter of Alan Keyes.

She related the story about how no one where she worked knew who he was--not even the black men or women. I'm sure there some racists that would have some smart-assed remarks re this, but it would fly in the face of the fact that blacks have always been looking for leaders, someone they can look up to as one of theirs.

Whether one likes Keyes or not, he is very intelligent, he is well spoken. He isn't shy about speaking up or out---and yet none of them knew who he was.

Once they were given transcripts or a video of some of his speeches, they were ticked that they, their families, and their friends, had been shut off from knowing anything about the guy.

Not everyone is all gung ho in politics like most of us here; not everyone has cable or satellite; not everyone reads full articles, if they take the newspaper, but IIRC, research has shown they generally read the first few paragraphs to get a feel for the story and move on.

They're involved in job(s), church, school, their families and their childrens activities.

rowdee  posted on  2008-03-04   12:35:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I supported Alan 20 years ago.

He fell out of grace with me over time and with good reason.

FOH  posted on  2008-03-04   12:42:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I supported Alan 20 years ago.

He fell out of grace with me over time and with good reason.

Same here. He started to sound a little too much like a religious fundie who'd codify his beliefs into federal law if he could.

But, when I first heard him speak years ago he really wowed me. He even made a joke about how his alma mater Harvard wouldn't be too quick to claim him anymore because his politics are antithetical to their star players' views.

And, when he attempted to crash the debate in Atlanta (League Of Noisy Voters I think it was) I thought that he lost more than he gained from it.

Which is exactly why Ron Paul didn't challenge the results in New Hampshire. The results would have been a net loss because the only publicity he would get would be bad. Some folks believe that the great unwashed can read between the lines but that simply isn't true, and it's always a mistake to open the door for O'Reilly and Hannity to savage a candidate.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-03-04   12:53:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

When it became Alan was nothing more than a PNAC-lite opportunist I parted company.

FOH  posted on  2008-03-04   13:02:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

When it became Alan was nothing more than a PNAC-lite opportunist I parted company.

Then we all agree.

As Americans we're starved for leadership that speaks to our hearts, and Alan was really good for a while until it was time to make a choice.

He sided with Harvard/Israel/PNAC/perpetual imperialism after all.

And, he of all people, Mr. "Tell It Like It Is and Let The Chips Fall Where They May" folded like an accordion, and it was ever so obvious that he compromised his morals to avoid the consequences of truth.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-03-04   13:27:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#145. To: HOUNDDAWG (#144)

Yessir.

I nearly gagged when he and dershowitz were going to go at it over torture to find that he was all for torture, that their argument was the degree or type.

rowdee  posted on  2008-03-04 13:30:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Then we all agree.

A good note to break on!

FOH  posted on  2008-03-04 13:34:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

As Americans we're starved for leadership that speaks to our hearts

You're starved for a fresh load of Hagee Spackle and that's about it, Sybildawg.

nobody  posted on  2008-03-05 05:37:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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