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(s)Elections
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Title: SOME RP CAMPAIGN INFO FOR Y'ALL
Source: ROWDEE
URL Source: http://NONE
Published: Mar 12, 2008
Author: ROWDEE
Post Date: 2008-03-12 21:52:33 by rowdee
Keywords: RON PAUL, CAMPAIGN, FINANCES
Views: 850
Comments: 61

More than a couple of times different people have made comments regarding finances in the Ron Paul campaign. Even my friend, Peppa, one of RP's staunchest supporters, commented something to the effect that she wished he had spent more on advertising.

Having been a candidate for a state house office, raised finances, and approved spending (though on nowhere near the grand scale of a presidential campaign), my interest was piqued.

I am a bookkeeper by training and by major work experience, so my interest was tweaked at the same time.Thus with my interest being both piqued and tweaked, I took a look at one of his financial reports just to see what was going on.

The report used in my research is for the month of January 2008, with the report being filed February 20, 2008.

Cash on Hand at Beginning of Reporting Period............$7,839,420.90
Total Receipts This Period............................... 4,635,626,06
SUBTOTAL.................................................12,475,046.96
Total Disbursements This Period.........................< 6,472,858.78 >
CASH ON HAND AT CLOSE OF REPORTING PERIOD................ 6,002,188,18

TO DATE NET CONTRIBUTIONS................................32,562,115.77
TO DATE NET OPERATING EXPENDITURES.......................26,512,232.30

No loans were received.

Expenditures were reduced by offsets (refunds,rebates).. 212,608.66

Interest/Dividends as Other Receipts.................... 5,010.63

Contribution Refunds ................................... 10,335,50

The campaign did not allocate any expenses by state.

This report is 2,158 pages long.

Receipts start at Page 4, with 3 entries to a page, and are reported through pages 1498, which only contains 2 entries. That would disclose 4,479 donors.

Starting at Page 1,499 is the listing of expenditures for the month. This is 659 pages of itemized expenditures, 3 to a pages--except the last page which was only 2 items. That would make 1,976 itemized expenditures. For my purposes, I only researched to page 1552, and only the first item on that page. It should be noted that there are some earlier dates recorded, which would seem to me to be someone late in turning in bills/receipts for payment/reimbursement.

For this research project, I only looked at expenses posted during the first 10 days of the month (this period has several 'earlier' receipts which are being reimbursed apparently during this time frame). So, keep in mind that these expenditures are only for a third of the month.

Credit Card Processing Fees.......................$ 310,878...10.3%
Air Travel........................................ 121,133... 4.0%
Bulk Mail Processing.............................. 286,710... 9.5%
Copy Product...................................... 117...
Office Supplies................................... 2,107... .1%
Postage........................................... 19...
Service Charge (appear to be bank charges)........ 75...
Telecommunications................................ 257,301... 8.5%
TV Spot Production................................ 912,716...30.2%
Print Advertising................................. 7,437... .2%
Radio Spot Advertising............................ 517,263...17.1%
Campaign Buttons.................................. 4,090... .1%
Shirts............................................ 19,371... .6
Consultants (Field Work).......................... 15,678... .5%
Freight........................................... 68,443... 2.3%
Signs/Supplies.................................... 192,681... 6.4%
Bulk Printing Brochures........................... 59,230... 2.0%
Contribution Refunds.............................. 3,300... .1%
Rent Expense...................................... 25,120... .8%
Audio/Visual...................................... 3,335... .1%
Entertainment..................................... 2,880... .1%
Accounting........................................ 1,180...
Petition Coordination............................. 18,000... .6%
Polling........................................... 85,657... 2.8%
Software Maintenance.............................. 500...
Ballot Access Coordinators........................ 8,365... .3%
Filing Fees....................................... 10,750... .4%
Gas/Mileage Reimbursement......................... 1,082...
Reimbursement Expense (?)......................... 3,982... .1%
Voter Lists....................................... 12,000... .4%
Web Page.......................................... 28,269... .9%
E-Mail Service.................................... 939...
Federal Express................................... 486...
Hotel Accom./Food/Catering........................ 22,052... .7%
Notary Services................................... 900...
Field Coordinator................................. 1,375...
PR Services....................................... 1,000...
Computer Supplies................................. 37...
Parking........................................... 39...
Utilities......................................... 147...
Video/DVD Processing.............................. 7,500... .2%

TOTAL EXPENDITURES FOR THIS 10-DAY PERIOD....... $ 3,018,046

For the record, the small amounts that didn't have a "% of Disbursements" figure, amount to $7,396, or .3%.

Adding up the obvious Bulk Mailing, Radio, TV, Buttons, Shirts, Signs, Print Advertising, etc., gives a total of $2,035,384, or 67% of the expenditures for this time period. I didn't set a criteria for myself to look at the name on each individual entry, though it seems like I did, or nearly always so. I do not recall seeing any items specifically for a radio station or tv station, i.e., KPAX TV or KFI 900.

Does anyone have any idea on what the typical advertising % is? I don't.

I did not include Telecommunications in this number, as I'm not sure what all was put in there.

The Credit Card Processing Fees were astounding to me. I'm aware that Visa, et al, charge merchants a varying fee schedule, and know Pay Pal does as well, but I wouldn't have considered it as capable of taking a large chunk of change....the third largest expense!

Because of my having campaigned, I'm aware that notary fees are involved because of all the filings that have to take place.

Speaking of filings, the Filing Fee in the list was for Louisiana. If all states charged the same amount, every campaign would have to pay out over half a million dollars just to the 50 states!

And how about those Voter Lists. There were only 2 entries, but yet that took $12,000.

Ballot Access Coordination, Petition Coordination, Consultants, and Polling companies--while not huge amounts--at least not on this report--can add up quickly.

An interesting tidbit--there is an expense paid to the Tancredo campaign for $1500. It is coded office supplies. This tells me the RP people were being cost conscious and picked up on a good deal.

Hopefully, these figures will give some of you fine people something to chew over when you contemplate what Ron Paul woulda, coulda, shoulda done with the campaign.

Furthermore, I would hope that it would be a bit instructive to some of you who believe he shoulda gone third party. Treated as the bastard child, such candidates have to pay full bore for everything--from lawyers fighting states election laws and election law determinations by some bureaucrat, to having to have ballot access coordinators, petition coordinators, and, of course, buying voter lists from the various states or counties.

And a final comment.........it looks like people can ask for their beer money back.

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#22. To: rowdee (#18)

It would be good to see monthly accountings, and the '07 closeout. To me, the snapshot was pretty darn tight, and I was surprised at the % to advtsg. I would guess finance staff had a number of things on their minds... one, money bombs don't go on forever without strong showings, two, if in for the long haul, one must plan to take on future frontrunners.. so thrift is necessary and three... one of the larger points you make, as the bastard child, he's not getting a cutrate.

With that in mind, having funds avail mid-mo J, for SuperT, was a sign of tight planning, imho.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-03-13   0:41:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Peppa (#20)

One thing about that, Peppa.........nowhere does it say prayers will be answered how and when we want them to be, though there be many out there that don't believe this. They're still in the 'me, me, me' stage of life. :)

Turn your back on the sun and you only see the shadows.

rowdee  posted on  2008-03-13   0:45:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Peppa (#22)

Oh, I agree with you about having funds available. Even contractors have a contingency fund built into their bids (that is, of course, if they are wise businessmen)--back when my husbandy was a GC, it was 10%; I don't have any idea of what would be considered smart in todays' world.

I'm really thinking of reviewing the rest of the month to see if it stayed essentially the same....but I'd really like to look into December 2007--that was when the big money bomb action took place. I'd like to see what transpired from mid to end of month.

Who knows.......maybe even go back to say, the month of September....or a time when it was really lean.... But right now I just can't. My Mother is moving up here this weekend, and I will have people to entertain for several days, including a niece I've never met (one of my deceased brothers' daughters) and Mom's pastor. Can you believe it--he and his wife are going to follow behind my Mom's car all the way up here to make sure she gets here safely? He was even wanting to rent a van and just haul her car!

Turn your back on the sun and you only see the shadows.

rowdee  posted on  2008-03-13   0:52:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: rowdee (#23) (Edited)

One thing about that, Peppa.........nowhere does it say prayers will be answered how and when we want them to be, though there be many out there that don't believe this. They're still in the 'me, me, me' stage of life. :)

:) I was taught that prayers aren't always answered in the form desired no matter how much faith one has or not. (If at all)

Maybe beer money has another level of expectation. Serious business./s ;)

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-03-13   0:55:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: rowdee (#24)

Oh, I agree with you about having funds available. Even contractors have a contingency fund built into their bids (that is, of course, if they are wise businessmen)--back when my husbandy was a GC, it was 10%; I don't have any idea of what would be considered smart in todays' world.

I'm really thinking of reviewing the rest of the month to see if it stayed essentially the same....but I'd really like to look into December 2007--that was when the big money bomb action took place. I'd like to see what transpired from mid to end of month.

I think the Boston Tea Party money bomb was mid D, however, I remember an email from the campaign that asked for donations early in Dec., to allow buy time for ads. So, D07 is going to be pretty skewed I would think.

It'd be fun to check it out R, but only if you have time to kill, which obviously you don't!!!

But right now I just can't. My Mother is moving up here this weekend, and I will have people to entertain for several days, including a niece I've never met (one of my deceased brothers' daughters) and Mom's pastor. Can you believe it--he and his wife are going to follow behind my Mom's car all the way up here to make sure she gets here safely? He was even wanting to rent a van and just haul her car!

Wow that is more than kind of her pastor! Fantastic! You are gonna be verrrry busy. Check in when you can!! Good luck! :)

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-03-13   1:31:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Peppa (#26)

I'll certainly try to check in........I'm safe til about Sunday evening/early Monday morning. :)

Re collecting the big bomb, I'm anxious to see the expense side. December was the big bomb, and January was the little one, as I recall.

Turn your back on the sun and you only see the shadows.

rowdee  posted on  2008-03-13   1:50:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: rowdee (#27) (Edited)

I'm safe til about Sunday evening/early Monday morning. :)

LOL good!

Re collecting the big bomb, I'm anxious to see the expense side. December was the big bomb, and January was the little one, as I recall.

I took a quick look at ronPaul Graphs http://www.ronpaulgraphs.com/

MoneyBomb graph here: www.ronpaulgraphs.com/direct ory.html? number=0&list=moneybomb

First MB on 11/5; shot heard round the world. Then on to TPty, 12/16. Just thinking there might have been a ramp in expense side beyond original plan. 1107 EOM v 1207 EOM could look very different.

Edit: After posting, a brain cell called and said it remembered something about RP making significant adds to his staff. Probably in prep for the IW caucus & NH Primary. www.ronpaulgraphs.com

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-03-13   2:16:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Jethro Tull (#13)

I used to crack people up by saying that if I hit the Powerball I would share the wealth by buying my friends a case of Piels!

HAH!

Last of the big spenders!

"...Because I used to love her...but it's all over now!"___Mick Jagger

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-03-13   5:32:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: rowdee (#17)

Otherwise, I would imagine you'd want me to write the letter, too..........and put the stamp on it! :)

Yes, I do. Please don't dangle beer money in my face w/o supplying the necessary means of obtaining a complete refund :)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-03-13   9:19:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Peppa (#20)

does God have to return the money in the donation plate?

You seem to be confusing God with the church.

A society grows rich by producing things…and saving money.

angle  posted on  2008-03-13   9:31:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: angle (#31)

You seem to be confusing God with the church.

Nope, clear on that concept.

Some people confused RonPaul with Jesus.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-03-13   9:33:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: rowdee (#0)

Thanks much for all the research and tabulation here.

The credit card cost seems to be at least double the going rate, and it's interesting how much money folks 'over-contributed' to the campaign which was dutifully refunded them.

Cheers up there.

Lod  posted on  2008-03-13   9:51:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: rowdee (#21)

From what I have seen of debit cards being used at the grocery store by being run thru a card reader, I am thinking it directly hits your bank account, and appears on your bank statement. But that is my thinking, as I have no knowledge of how it works.

That is correct, but that is not the point. The point is that the credit card/debit card company gets a percentage of EVERYTHING that is bought/paid for with the card. A cashless society would mean that they would receive, depending on percentages, up to 5% of EVERY dollar spent in the entire economy.

It would make the oil business look like .... well, nothing. And would go a lot further towards making the rich much, much rich and concentrating the wealth in a few strong hands.

When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest. ++++ Attention, Shrub; A life of evil is ultimately a life of wretchedness.

richard9151  posted on  2008-03-13   10:31:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Peppa (#32)

Some people confused RonPaul with Jesus.

Some people confused him for someone who was in this election as a presidential contender.

A society grows rich by producing things…and saving money.

angle  posted on  2008-03-13   10:43:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: rowdee (#0)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-03-13   10:49:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: angle (#35)

Some people confused him for someone who was in this election as a presidential contender.

LOL!! Okay, lets do this for a while.

Did not.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-03-13   10:52:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Peppa (#37) (Edited)

"Victory in the conventional political sense is not available in the Presidential Race."

Do you see what I mean by not speaking plainly?

I mean he's in it or he's not.

A society grows rich by producing things…and saving money.

angle  posted on  2008-03-13   10:58:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: angle (#38)

Do you see what I mean by not speaking plainly?

I mean he's in it or he's not.

Do you see that the other Presidential Candidates (though I'm not sure how you define them) are no different that what we already have had?

We are going into unconventional times. We need unconventional leadership from US.

If the definition of a quality candidate is continuing to lie and defraud the public, and carry on the lie that there is a functioning two party system AT WORK, then, I guess, the other 3 qualify as quality, qualified and exactly what you want. If Obama is reform from inside the Dem party, then why isn't RP reform from within the Rep party. Because of peoples utter hipocracy about it.

If the message and record matters, but the strategy does not, I don't know who is left to fill the void.

It is what it is... I don't really think you like any of them... but this is a fraud of an argument to hold RP to one bar, and not the others.. it's hipocricy, and everyone see's through it.. except those that want RP to fall on his sword over certain factions pet issues. They miss the big and deadly picture of what has to happen first. They are in effect saying, I want you RP to run and act like the other liars.

Though we have known from the start that RP won't be allowed the nomination does not excuse people for pretending they donated to any thing other than a lost cause.

So, to me, it's put up or shut up time.

Bring another candidate that is all things to all people and let's unite.

Until then, finding excuses to do nothing and hiding behind unrealistic expectations and hipocracy, is GOING to return the same.

Let's talk about achievements. Some have said that RP has achieved nothing in Congress. If that's the criteria for a vote FOR, then the ONLY candidate that has that stripe on his sleeve is McCain and Bush. They definitely got things done. So, by extention, that would be the 'achievement' candidate. See how rediculous the arguments are. If people DON'T like any of them, fine. But the triple standard is transparent, and those smearing RP are being disingenuous. JM2centavos.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-03-13   11:22:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Peppa (#39)

I'm not smearing Ron Paul in any way. I'm asking questions.

A society grows rich by producing things…and saving money.

angle  posted on  2008-03-13   11:51:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: richard9151 (#34)

Everything has a cost attached......or so it seems.....whether paying for checks, serive charges, and the like.

Turn your back on the sun and you only see the shadows.

rowdee  posted on  2008-03-13   12:04:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: angle (#38)

Do ya want yer candidates to paint the pictures for you, as well as draw them? LOL.

Turn your back on the sun and you only see the shadows.

rowdee  posted on  2008-03-13   12:07:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: ghostdogtxn (#36)

I believe him to be the best also.

Turn your back on the sun and you only see the shadows.

rowdee  posted on  2008-03-13   12:24:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: angle (#40)

I'm not smearing Ron Paul in any way. I'm asking questions.

Questions?

No. You have thrown down the 9/11 gauntlet as your litmus test of a failing candidate as I see it. (I'm sure there are other issues that are important to you as well, but that is one we have been tossing back and forth)

The same questions be asked of the other candidates, should you choose to apply the same test fairly. Otherwise, we're just having posting party.

:)

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-03-13   12:36:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Peppa, rowdee (#44)

As far as the 911 thing and RP, you're the one tossing it back and forth. Throw down the gauntlet? I mentioned it. Believe me darlin that if I throw down the gauntlet, you'd be reeling off your computer chair.

I made the comment that in addition to 911 and his dismissal of voter fraud as an issue, in addition to his dropping out-no-I'm-in, there's-no-conventional- way-to-win, this-is-a-revolution-which-is-a-project pronouncements, I'm a bit disillusioned with his plan of attack.

There's not a candidate out there and Paul was my best hope, so you can give it a rest on your let's ask the other candidate bullshit because as I said before, who gives a fukk what they think.

As far as a posting party, you're all alone there becasue I'm not interested in cynicom style non answer posts. If that's what you have in mind carry on without me. You and lol rowdee can whoop it up.

If Paul's proposition is revolution in the coming years by organizing a grassroots base of like minded folk, goody gumdrops. I was in the market for a bit more in the way of forestalling the demise of this country in the short term. That's he's pulling out of that effort is disappointing. The revolution now being a community based project with the hope of rallying local troops is fine, but is has a lot less energy, less enthusiam and less effort and what it can accomplish without a figurehead is questionable.

I supported Ron Paul and support the ideas behind the revolution. I don't follow RP blindly nor do I shrink from pointing out where I see inconsistencies in the proposed plan.

How much moolah has RP raised since his Lenin email and his latest video? Why doesn't his website have a contact anymore? Where has Paul been campaigning?

A society grows rich by producing things…and saving money.

angle  posted on  2008-03-13   19:06:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: angle (#45)

Wow, another temper tantrum..............

Yawn.

No one forced you to post. You said you were just asking questions.

It's of course not fair if someone asks them of you.

As for voter fraud.. it's a factor, a big one. Knowing that, and holding to your last hope also seems NOT to be anyones fault.

You work with what you have, and can't call foul as if you didn't expect the worst.

If you give the system the power and decide not to work around it, which seems to be what the RP folks have been trying to show, and do, then, you must give up entirely and wait for the Fema bus.

:) Don't play the victim, it's not working.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-03-13   19:15:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: angle (#45)

I'm not interested in cynicom style non answer posts.

Hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-13   19:19:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: angle (#45)

If Paul's proposition is revolution in the coming years by organizing a grassroots base of like minded folk, goody gumdrops. I was in the market for a bit more in the way of forestalling the demise of this country in the short term. That's he's pulling out of that effort is disappointing. The revolution now being a community based project with the hope of rallying local troops is fine, but is has a lot less energy, less enthusiam and less effort and what it can accomplish without a figurehead is questionable.

I supported Ron Paul and support the ideas behind the revolution. I don't follow RP blindly nor do I shrink from pointing out where I see inconsistencies in the proposed plan.

i think what you've expressed is a realistic appraisal and one with which i agree.

christine  posted on  2008-03-13   19:45:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: christine (#48)

i think what you've expressed is a realistic appraisal and one with which i agree.

It would be hard to say anyone here followed/follows RP blindly. You and others have been concerned about voter fraud from the start. Running an ad for RP in spite of that was a cause for concern about committing to such an effort. All that has happened since has been to tear down the last shred of hope. In effect, to ensure there was none.

I have to ask, why then, did the 4um play that game to begin with?

As for those who support other candidates... jonesing for the CFR isn't all that attractive either.

Rp was drafted into running by supporters, he said he would stay if they wanted him to. That's been the case from the very beginning. IMO, most around here have recognized the corrupted system and hoped the 'people would wake up' and seek to change it. Many did. They tried, and are still trying too.

It's insulting to suggest people were and are blind.

Again, it's a shot to heart of people that ARE trying to do something before the window slams shut, permanently.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-03-13   20:01:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Peppa (#49)

first of all, i didn't suggest that anyone is/was following RP blindly. i agree with the totality of what angle expressed as far as his concerns about the future of the Ron Paul Revolution without its leader.

secondly, i believe we have more than covered the ground about why we did the ad. however, i'll reiterate. at that point, we were all excited and hopeful (in varying degrees) regarding a RP win in NH. we were willing to take a chance and do something to help in that effort. i also have to say that i expected that when vote fraud did happen there that RP would scream from the mountain top about it. when he instead declared that he didn't think it affected his results, i admit, i was very disappointed.

christine  posted on  2008-03-13   20:24:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: christine (#50)

There's a kind of reluctance on his part to spark an escalation of rhetoric.

buckeye  posted on  2008-03-13   20:30:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: christine (#50)

first of all, i didn't suggest that anyone is/was following RP blindly. i agree with the totality of what angle expressed as far as his concerns about the future of the Ron Paul Revolution without its leader.

secondly, i believe we have more than covered the ground about why we did the ad. however, i'll reiterate. at that point, we were all excited and hopeful (in varying degrees) regarding a RP win in NH. we were willing to take a chance and do something to help in that effort. i also have to say that i expected that when vote fraud did happen there that RP would scream from the mountain top about it. when he instead declared that he didn't think it affected his results, i admit, i was very disappointed.

Christine, I was responding to both claims.

That RP didn't do what you wanted him to about voter fraud, then begs the question, why donate to the Granny Warriors. All monies collected were offered back to donors. So why the bitching? The constant constant bitching.

The caterwauling about what he is not, has gone way overboard. There were no illusions. I wanted a more agressive RP, but didn't see it either. No reason for the smear team to move in. The constant whipping of a guy that tried, is REFLECTIVE of those that cast the stones. It's more than hipocracy.

My comments are only to have a fair discussion. Some can not accept RP at his word, pure and simple. That does not suit many. That we HOPED he was a different sort of politician, and ended up that he WAS different sort of politican, is enough reason to blame HIM for OUR expectations.

The hipocracy of it all has been exposed, and as such, many hide behind you.

JMHO.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-03-13   20:43:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Peppa (#52) (Edited)

where in what angle posted, that i agreed with, do you see criticism of Ron Paul? i didn't. he wrote that he is disappointed that Paul quit and of his concern about the future of the rEVOLution without its namesake leading it. i think you're confusing our expression of disappointment and asking of questions for bitching and caterwauling.

christine  posted on  2008-03-13   20:55:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: christine (#53)

where in what angle posted, that i agreed with, do you see criticism of Ron Paul? i didn't. he wrote that he is disappointed that Paul quit and of his concern about the future of the rEVOLution without its namesake leading it. i think you're confusing our expression of disappointment and asking of questions for bitching and caterwauling.

Sure confusion, that's it.

Crimeny.

Go Hillary.

Eff it.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-03-13   21:01:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Cynicom (#47)

I'm not interested in cynicom style non answer posts.

Hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell him if he messes with you, he'll sleep with the taters.

The stupider people are the more surprised they are when you kill them.

YertleTurtle  posted on  2008-03-13   21:03:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: YertleTurtle (#55)

he'll sleep with the taters.

I have been looking on the internet for an affordable flak jacket,ear plugs, shatterproof lens and big mittens. Some days people throw so many stones that I get all barked up.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-13   21:11:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Cynicom (#56) (Edited)

Some days people throw so many stones that I get all barked up.

Yeah well, that's what happens when you're an olde guy and always hanging around. You become a fixture.

Don't forget the boots.

A society grows rich by producing things…and saving money.

angle  posted on  2008-03-13   22:19:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: angle (#57)

You become a fixture.

I been booted out of several places. Right out in the street. Hurt my dignity.

Have met a lot of good people tho, so it is worth it. If Christine shows up here with her boots on, I will know who the booter and the bootee will be.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-13   22:27:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Cynicom (#58)

Right out in the street. Hurt my dignity.

Their loss.

A society grows rich by producing things…and saving money.

angle  posted on  2008-03-13   22:30:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: angle (#59)

Their loss.

angle...

I get worried when you are nice to me. I dont know if I can handle it.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-13   22:38:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Cynicom (#60)

Where abouts do you hark from in PA?

A society grows rich by producing things…and saving money.

angle  posted on  2008-03-13   22:40:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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