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Religion
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Title: Hate group plans funeral protest [Religious Group to Disrupt Slain Soldier's Funeral]
Source: Marblehead Reporter
URL Source: http://www2.townonline.com/marblehe ... g?articleid=273702&format=text
Published: Jun 28, 2005
Author: Marlene Switzer
Post Date: 2005-06-28 16:32:05 by crack monkey
Keywords: [Religious, Soldiers, Funeral]
Views: 127
Comments: 20

Hate group plans funeral protest

By Marlene Switzer/ marblehead@cnc.com

Thursday, June 23, 2005

Marblehead police are readying for a possible hate group protest that threatens to mar the privacy and solemnity of a local man's military funeral. A radical Midwestern group has announced its intention to rally at the Marblehead funeral of U.S. Army Special Forces Staff Sgt. Christopher N. Piper, who died June 15 at Brooke Army Medical Center of wounds suffered in action in Afghanistan on June 3.

The Kansas-based Westboro Baptist Church, proclaiming "thank God for IEDs" or roadside bombs, claims the attacks on September 11 and American deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan are God's vengeance on a nation that is tolerant of homosexuality.

"It's going to shock and enrage every person who sees it. That is our goal," said Margie Phelps, daughter of WBC leader Fred Phelps, commenting on the planned protest.

The group is based in Topeka, Kansas, and has made headlines protesting homosexuality at school events, graduations and mainstream churches. Representatives of the hate group have said they would protest at the funerals of two Massachusetts soldiers who were killed in action because the slain heroes "were cast into hell to join many more dishonorable Americans."

Margie Phelps said her father is a self-declared prophet.

"He hasn't been sent to save. He's been sent to condemn," she said, adding that group members have protested the funerals of 11 slain soldiers across the nation in the past two weeks.

Marblehead veterans service agent David Rodgers said, "I don't understand people like that. Any disrespect shown towards him [Piper] and his family is beyond my imagination."

Faced with the possibility that a public display by such a hate group could draw a large number of emotionally charged counter protesters to town, Marblehead Police Chief James Carney is taking no chances. Wednesday he said he was planning a Thursday strategy meeting with town police, fire and EMS representatives, as well as other law enforcement officials experienced with riot control, to come up with a plan for maintaining order.

Carney said he was expecting to call on a combination of state police and officers from the North Eastern Massachusetts Law Enforcement Council, of which Marblehead is a member community, to bolster the very small local police contingent.

The chief believes there can't be too much law enforcement presence in such a situation. In fact, he is confident that insuring an orderly public protest will serve as a deterrent to the situation erupting into a dangerous confrontation.

"This is a publicity-hungry group that has latched onto the reprehensible tactic of appearing at soldiers' funerals," Carney said of the group that threatens to appear at Sgt. Piper's funeral.

Margie Phelps said the protests may be disruptive to family members, but "as long as it's being made into a public ordeal, then all bets are off."

She added, "Thank God for the mortar. Thank God for the shell that came from the gun. Thank God for the fact that it killed the fruit of America to punish it for its sins."

The wake, funeral and procession to the cemetery for Sgt. Piper could draw a large number of mourners, regardless of whether the protest takes place, so Carney recommends motorists avoid Elm Street Sunday from 7-10 p.m., and Green, lower Washington and Waterside streets Monday until about noon.

Boston Herald reporter O'Ryan Johnson contributed to this report.

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#1. To: All (#0)

I wondered if the dead soldiers were gay or were suspected to be gay. I read this through and couldn't be certain. That would explain why these people only chose to disrupt certain funerals.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-06-28   16:33:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Oh gawd.. it's that Pastor Phelps.. the "God Hates Gays" faux preacher.. sick man.

"I've coined new words, like, "misunderstanding" and "Hispanically"." - GW Bush

Zipporah  posted on  2005-06-28   16:35:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Oh gawd.. it's that Pastor Phelps.. the "God Hates Gays" faux preacher.. sick man.

OK. Then these are gay soldiers. That's what this is all about. The article wasn't clear about this.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-06-28   16:55:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I hate censorship and believe the First Amendment means what it says..

But this guy REALLY is a worst case scenario. I don't see how it could go further south from here.

The way I see it, the venue is more problematic than his message. IMO, it borders on harassment.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-06-28   17:35:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The way I see it, the venue is more problematic than his message. IMO, it borders on harassment.

The court can put time, place and manner restrictions on demonstrations as long as there is an alternate venue available. This is why you can almost never demonstrate near a school where classes will be disrupted or children frightened. I think these people would have a good shot at a restraining order for the funeral. The fundies could demonstrate in a lot of other alternate venues.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-06-28   17:37:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Rapture monkeys?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2005-06-28   18:30:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Although I know little about this group and based on what I see I don't agree with them, the use of the Marxism drenched 'hate group' smear in the article is troubling.

The usage of the term 'hate group' throughout the piece is noteworthy. It is never explained who gave the group this label or how it came about. How does this reporter know that the members of this Church hate gays? She did not even interview any of them to see whether they do, in fact, hate gays. What is with the subtle conditioning in the media?

There should have been coverage of this group so Americans could make up their minds on the group. But there was none. This is another subtle example of how we no longer have a free press. The group is a hate group, period. No questions asked or no other possibilities. Americans now know that when the govt gives special rights to groups, then most opposition to that group can be called hate, and Americans have no right to make up their own minds about many issues. Seems some issues have 'rights'.

I mention all this because the term hate group, the way they are using it, could be used against any group of Americans that tries to question another group that has received special status from the govt. The special status of a protected group could be used to advance the agenda of the group by assigning it victim status and protecting against all criticism, not only 'hateful' criticism. The special interest group receiving the special rights even gets to choose what is hateful when it comes to criticism and opposition that group faces. The only goal of the group is to advance its own agenda at the expense of Americans, when necessary. And they will always call all criticism 'hate' because the govt has allowed them the special group status.

While a collectivist system gives power to groups, its important to note that the power has to come from somewhere- it comes from individuals (we give it up), who are stripped of rights and not allowed to join together and form a group of their own- a majority group. The mechanism for this is mainly psychological- Americans feel that forming a majority group to oppose minority groups attacking them is somehow inherently evil- an attack on those who have been victimized already by their very nature. This majority group would face real resistance as well, from a coalition of the 100's of minority groups which rightly perceive the gaining of power by the majority could be at their expense. Attacking the majority is the one thing that unites all the special interest groups in a collectivist system. All this appears to be textbook Marxism in action- not unlike the system that helped bring down Russia early in the 20th century.

This is a great example why groups should never be given rights by a government. Is it any wonder the individual is under assault in this nation? The govt is assigning rights to groups all over the place and increasing their power they exercise on the majority as a group and individuals in the majority. Meanwhile, the govt is taking away rights from individuals as seen in the Patriot Acts- basically ending the all important right to privacy. The joining of corps and govt is also troubling. In DC, I read about a huge, new office complex specifically dedicated to handling the business of corps and govt coming together. If the fed govt colludes against Americans in the majority with special interest groups, then it will, without doubt, collude with corps against Americans as well. It simply does so by it's very nature at this point.

Bayonne  posted on  2005-06-28   20:04:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Thank God for the fact that it killed the fruit of America to punish it for its sins."

Seems like there are sects of rapture whackos who differentiate themselves by choosing different groups that they want God to kill for them. They seem to all require enemies to kill. They can't just live in Peace. Scary bunch. Easy pray for a charismatic cult leader. Hate can bind people together- just like love. Seems like all of the rapture cults have chosen hate.

Bayonne  posted on  2005-06-28   20:15:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Seems like all of the rapture cults have chosen hate.

They sure spook me out....being sucked up to heaven, while others stay behind. The words a pack of fucking nuts comes to mind.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2005-06-28   20:18:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

It is never explained who gave the group this label or how it came about. How does this reporter know that the members of this Church hate gays? She did not even interview any of them to see whether they do, in fact, hate gays. What is with the subtle conditioning in the media?

Look at their website: http://www.GodHatesFags.com

They have pictures of them pickiting funerals with signs saying things like: "Thank God He's Dead". Little kids with "I hate fags" shirts, the whole nine yards. Lots of printed material that just drips hate.

I didn't realize that Rush and Hannity were being Marxists when they used the term "Hate Group" on a daily basis. Rush used it several times today. I don't see Limbaugh as being a communist though.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-06-28   20:46:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

We had a funeral here for a soldier last week who was a soccer coach at a local school. These folks showed up here as well. Nasty editorial about it in the paper.

Of course it hurts, You're getting screwed by an elephant

justlurking  posted on  2005-06-28   20:49:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I don't see Limbaugh as being a communist though.

Oh I do.. hes in bed with the Trotskyite neocons.. hes one of them.

"I've coined new words, like, "misunderstanding" and "Hispanically"." - GW Bush

Zipporah  posted on  2005-06-28   20:50:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Although I know little about this group and based on what I see I don't agree with them, the use of the Marxism drenched 'hate group' smear in the article is troubling.

I noticed that and found it disturbing too. Even though this group sounds very wacky, it did seem odd how the term "hate group" was used throughout this article.

We are indeed becoming a Marxist country though the PTB still insist on calling it a democracy, though that term is making me cringe these days-- for instance when Bush talks about bringing 'democracy' (destruction and death) to the middle east.

Diana  posted on  2005-06-29   14:33:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Thanks for your response. I have made some posts in a similar vein and no ne seems to relate to them. I thought maybe I was paranoid about the Marxism because no ne else acknowledged the existence of what I thought were textbook signs of it.

After studying Marxism lately and posting on it, I have noticed a blind spot for it on most forums, even the patriot style forums like 4. Its almost like Americans have been conditioned so that they cannot realize collectivism, or at the very least, cannot comprehend that an opposing ideology to that of what is considered American, of founding fathers origim, can actually pose a very real threat to them personally in the US. No matter how collectivist the nation becomes, it is never a topic of serious discussion. Even the Patriot Acts, DHS, national ID etc, have caused little concern in the media.

Can Americans actually comprehend anymore that collectivism is a competing ideology actively promoted by many because a system in which special groups have powers that exceed what they would have normally have- at the expense of individuals in the majority, whose power is usurped? The ide of the individual being the source of all rights and the founding principles being trashed has not even panicked anyone.

I think people have bought into the line that collectivism officially died worldwide just because the soviet empire went bankrupt in a battle between the US and the USSR- a trumped up cold war as corrupt in nature as all wars... I mean, so what? Because Americans don;t understand the real real nature of collectivism, we can't see the actual threat it poses in the US.

We got used to viewing communism as a caricature intended as propaganda- to demonize the USSR- portraying communism as generally the oposite of all we love and value in the US- always an effective way to demonize- to show him as the complete opposite of 'us'. Our conception of Russians was exemplified by the Rusian bolshevik fighter in Rocky 2! That seemed plausible at the time. The real story and history of communism in Russia can best be studied in looking at the russian revolution.

Since the ideology of communism does not change except to adapt in subtle wats to the host society, some lessons can be drawn. Communism, or collectivism, is an ideology invented and employed by the peple who invented collectivism when they developed the ideology of Judaism. It is a system designed to allow them to use their mastery of collectivism over thousands of years in a system that is literally based on Judaism, to accrue power in far excess of population of the population, actually allowing them in a very complex way to exercise control over the majority, effecting what is literally known as a revolution, an overthrow of the majority power structure that existed. It happened in Russia and is a very real threat.

So, knowing this about the history of collectivism and seeing it start to dominate the US politically, I naturally become alarmed, especially when I see usual suspects like the neocoms promoting it.

Not that I believe in that style revolution happening in the US. Just the fact that collectism is in vogue means that by definition, the power and actual rights of individuals in the majority is under assault. This is borne out by evidence. pols in DC represent groups and attack indivs in the majority as a matter of evergay biz. DC is all about 'special interest groups' It is apparent the interests of Ams are not being represented. To me, I have even observed bush being openly hostile to the middle class as a matter of policy. he is the 1st pres i can recall that has had the balls to be penly anti middle class.

Anyway, as the system exists, individuals like us and everyone else on 4um will be under constant assault of groups accorded special status and power by govts. These groups tend to gain at outr loss. For example, hispanic groups promote full SS and other benefits for illegals. They only see the majority as a source from which they can gain economically or politically. They are typical collectivist group in the US. Bush and all the other polls support their rights to take fom the middle class AS A MATTER OF JUSTICE. This is what actually makes the system Marxist. The idea Bush and others push like a drug that all Mexicans are noble, love their families, work 20 hrs a day and love Jesus (goes over well with rapture monkeys). They try to collude with the special interest group at the expense of the majority both target. Bush tries to convince the majority to actually support the illegals who are a threat to them by portraying them as be be pretty much entitled to be a part of the collectivist system.

Note how Bush hides all the negatives this group of hispanics who represent illegals means for the majority. An example- illegals who come acros the border contain a certain amount of violent felons who attack Americans- they are here to pillage the nation. Bush and the Marxists hide negatives like this to alter perseption. For these men, better the truth be hidden and Marxism be advanced thaan Americans be told the truth about killers amonst them- as an example.

So we have the illegals now actively working in collusion with the fed govt against the majority. They will continue to take as much as they can from the majority for as long as collectivism is given power by our corrupt pols in DC. The illegals are getting full SS benefits and a multitude of other communist goodies at the expense mainly of the middle class. The upper classes like those in DC never even have to deal with illegals, overcrowded schools, hospitals, etc because they are segregated in affluent communities that only see Mexicans when it is time for the lawn to be cut.

Anyway, take the example of the Hispanics working tirelessly with support of the fed govt and multiply it by all the special interest groups in the US And you start to understand the problem.

The most dangerous problem for us as individuals is that our rights are also under attack. In a collectivist system, groups have rights. This was not even supposed to be technically possible, I thought, except by scrapping the Constitution, but is it happening nonetheless to us now. Groups are given rights by the fed govt. In a Marxist system, as with the money that has to come from the middle class to the special group, our rights have to be diminished in order to provide groups with rights. Again, it is it our expense.

In the tradition Am system, all men are equal and freedom is GUARANTEED if the system is functioning. THOSE DAYS ARE OVER. Our system no longer seems to value the rights of the individual and the power of groups can be used to destroy individuals in the majority- quick example- the ADL technically, in the system of the founders where indiv rights are absolute and groups cant possess rights, thus insuring each individual is safe and free, cannot have rights. Technically that is. The reality is that traditinal concepts of indiv rights have been officially scrapped years ago and pols in the fed govt and the beaurocracy itself now actually collude with the ADL, even though that org uses its group power derived from govt to destroy individuals that it deems a threat to its group, which as as group continuously functions to hammer the majority usurping individual rights. Maximizing its power, that of US Jews, is the only obligation it has, which also involves atacking people like us by its very nature.

Its hard to believe frd govt supports this but they do. As I outlined for you, the system is inherently corrupt because it is collectivist. Collectivism results in individuals being enslaved. It removes rights of individuals it has no right to even address. Because individuals are not guaranteed rights in the system like we used to have, men wind up making choices as to what rights citizens are entitled to. The collectivist system is inherently corrupt, and thus tends to corrupt those with power in the system.

Hope this wasn't too depressing. Thats the end of my primer on collectivism. Do you think that collectivism is the threat I envision it to be? I wasn't really that concerned about it until I saw a virtual police state being imposed for no valid reason. The crackdown and attack on the individual just because he is an individual is a textbook sign of totalitarianism creeping in. So far the collectivism has taken mild forms, but lately it is getting ugly.

Bayonne  posted on  2005-06-29   17:04:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Zipporah is right on the mark when identifying Limbaugh as a communist thru his associations with self proclaimed communists that now run the Rep pary.

Limbaugh is a master propagandist and a manipulator of millions for the main purpose of controlling listeners thru various means to support neocons in power. He knows full well the neocons have never refuted their beliefs and have never made even 1 statement in support of conservatism.

Limbaugh is evil in that he manipulates the listeners to literally act against their own interests- giving their total loyalty to Reps based on illusions Lush creates like libs encompassing all that is evil and reps representing all hat is good. There fore one must accept everything the reps tell you to and reject everything the reps tell you too. Limbaugh also incites hate of 'libruls' thru their portrayal as the only current danger to listeners in the US, while next portraying the Reps as the listeners saviors. Listeners feel so relieved that the reps are protecting them that they become emotionally condition to support them inherently because they are good, and actually make them feel good.

This may all seem a little wild to you, but let me assure you I am a self taught expert on Rep propaganda and control of BOTS. Lush and hannity dont believe in any battle against liberals or the importance of neocon ideology. Rep ideology went from paleo to neocon in the last 10 years. Both men droped their supposed deeply held consrv beliefs and jumped on the neo bandwagon as soon as the writing was on the wall.

They are evil, manipualting the very lives of listeners to benefit a political ideology. Any man like Lush that controls the minds of free men is the definition of evil.

Bayonne  posted on  2005-06-29   17:19:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Limbaugh is evil in that he manipulates the listeners to literally act against their own interests- giving their total loyalty to Reps based on illusions Lush creates like libs encompassing all that is evil and reps representing all hat is good. There fore one must accept everything the reps tell you to and reject everything the reps tell you too. Limbaugh also incites hate of 'libruls' thru their portrayal as the only current danger to listeners in the US, while next portraying the Reps as the listeners saviors. Listeners feel so relieved that the reps are protecting them that they become emotionally condition to support them inherently because they are good, and actually make them feel good.

I totally agree.. And its not wild whatsoever if anyone has eyes to see and ears to hear.. I did see a difference in Rush after he stayed in the Lincoln bedroom when Bush 1 was in office. I dont know if he truly changed or if he was hiding his true beliefs or if he was given an offer he couldnt refuse.

"I've coined new words, like, "misunderstanding" and "Hispanically"." - GW Bush

Zipporah  posted on  2005-06-29   17:31:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I didn't realize that Rush and Hannity were being Marxists when they used the term "Hate Group" on a daily basis. Rush used it several times today.

Technically, anyone that employs the concept of a hate group is Marxist by definition. The term is used more often than not to smear critics or opponents as haters whose arguments should be immediately discounted without analysis because they violate some supposed rights a group claims. Groups dont have any rights period. Anyone claiming or implying they do is a marxist POS.

The concept of hate groups is often used in an insidious evil way for a special interest group to defame the majority solely for political gain- and to portray themselves as victims of the majority 'hate group', which is portrayed as a natural predator of the victim- there is always the implication that the govt use force to limit the rights of the agresor to benefit the victm group. Bro, right out of theMarxism 101 TEXTBOOK.

This is not to say that some whacko groups do not exist that turn over tombstones and painst swastkias on cars. The idea is that which is a very minor threat to the victim group is portrayed as a huge threat, a caricature based on Marxist peinciples of the victim group being the natural prey of the majority aggressor- generating misplaced public sentiment abou the victim group- and used in general as an attack on the majority group. The accusation of a hate group existing to ruyhlessly prey on the victim by its nature is actually AN OFFENSIVE move by the group making the claim. That is a bizarre feature of Marxism. Moves that are offensive and designed solely to benefit the claimants group at the majority's expense are always portayed as defensive. The idea is to skew public perception over time, so that the agressor is seen as inherently ujust and the victim is seen as inherently just.

It is very complex when broken down. I have recently studied collectivism- its very nature. So I now have an understanding of it. A few months ago, I would be clueless about hate groups. I may be off base on some of this stuff, I'm still figuring it out. I try to identify characterisics of collectivism I see and then figure out ow it is being used, and most importantly, who benefits from its use.

I' telling you Hannity manipulates poloiyical correctness like someone who fully understands how to use it offensively. Just 5 years ago, he claimed PC violated rep principles- it was a communist tool of the dems. Now he crushes opposition with it. He plays the race card in routine debating whenever possible.

I recommend that all posters take the time to study collectivism in order to see how it is a big part of the US sytem now- and to see how politicians use it to increase their power. even colluding with special int groups at time to advance their common agendas. I always wondered what was up with the obsession in DC over special int groups- why they wielded such power, why pols in DC don;t seem to rep the constitutuents any longer. Why the Constitution seemed less and less relevant in DC. The answer to many of these questions involved the fact that collectivism was commonly accepted in DC by po;s and the fed govt leviathan. I came to understand how special int groups are just do gooder orgs trying to help those in need- they are well organized machines that use the collectivism in DC to actually screw the majority economically whenever possible. And there are thousands of these groups. I realized that under a system of collectivism, the majority is always under the attack of special groups the govt empowers to attack us, while selling us on some Marxist BS about justice and hiding the damage it does to us. We are literally conned into acting against our own interests by the govt when we support spec groups.

Worst of all, the collectivist system continuously operates to remove rights of individuals in the majority.

As long as this system is in force, we'll all be bitching about the system here on 4, and many of us will never even figure out that collectivism is a broad based menace. Its funny, but I now see how insane the system is in the US. Collectivism and other major ideologies like that of the neocons can operate almost without opposition in the US. Its like we dont have the abilty to realize when we are being openly screwed by even well established opposing ideologies we know are a threat. I men, the neocons treatened to suvery US foreign policy to serve Israel back in 1996. OPENLY. It was all even laid out publically.

So what happens? Known revotunaries who wrote the plan are literally INSTALLED in ideal positions of policy writing in DoD. They then proceed to rig the whole case for war and we invade Iraq. After the mission is accomplished, Wolf and Feith promptly quit... having never been held responsible for the now known deception and having the balls to just quit these high level positions when they finish the job for israel! It's insane!

isn't the story I related just about representative of how it all went down? What the hell is wrong with Americans that we allow traitors like this to screw us over with impunity to benefit Israel? Ant the whole while, there is a golden rule about the iraq war. Any mention of israel or these neocons doing anything to benefit israel is NOT ALLOWED. And why was a connection to Israel not allowed? Believe it or not because of collectivism. Even though 3 % pf the population, Jews have been able to manipulate the US system and gain so much group power that they can actually subvery the FP of the US to serve israel- against the interests of its own people! With full approval of all those im DC!

Although this is tragic for Americans and shows how collectivism is destroying us, the worst part of the story is taht US Jews and by extension Israel wields so much collective power over us, the majority, that they go into full offensive mode I spoke of earlier while playing the victim- predictably, by using this basic goto strategy, they make the false claim that THEY are being victimized by the accusation that they influenced the iraq war- by its very nature alone, the content of the accusation is ignored to dismiss the charges as the equiv of a hate crime!

The Jews do the collectivist equivalent of outlawing criticism about any connection to Iraq. Despite all the evidence that we were 'had', they have the gall to ban criticism! This is because judaism is collectivist by nature, and they actually believe that as a group, the Jews are rightfully entitled to as much power as they can usurp from the majority.

Just as we would naturally believe that individuals comprising the majority have rights, they believe that they, as a group, are entitled to dominate the majority as much as possible. Advancing the group is ethical, not advancing the group would be unethical. This is an important point, because it illustrates how our concepts of rights and power are COMPLETELY different than that of the Jews. As Americans, we naturally oppose collectivism, while they promote it and then exploit the Am sheeple because they are masters of the system, having literally invented it 1000's of years ago. This is the entire story behind why the Jews have always been dems in the US. They always sought to impose collectivism, because it provided them with an unfair advantage over the majority, the goal of which being to control the US govt to benefit themselves.

Bayonne  posted on  2005-06-29   18:29:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Looking back at events over the last 5 years or so, I have a hard time believing that Rush was ever honest, trying to improve the country for all as he portrayed himself. The corruption in the media is so great, with the 2 parties wielding so much influence over content and using the media to control constituents instead of represent them, that it is hard to imagine that Rush could remain independent, considering the effort the rep party would make to control him early on, seeing that he couls swing literally millons of votes by his words alone.

I am actually pessimistic about public republic media figures like Lush and the 'pop' conservatives because I know politics is corrupt by nature, and in the end rush is a politician PRETENDING he is not a politician. The maintenance of this illusion requires an incredible amount of deception, and after a point it becomes impossible to determine what the deceptions are, and frankly it doesn't matter. After all this deception to maintain the illusion of "Rush is just a regular conservative like me" what does rush have? He knows he is a fraud and not honest. Since he has no ethical principles, why wouldn't he take the position as one of the most imp members in the Rep party, a legend who is the master of controling voters in the party? A top producer of sorts. Better to be this instead of a fraud putting on a show just to con the dupes daily.

What do you think? Doesn't it appear that those at this level have to be corrupt? Maintaining an audience of millons requires adjusting beliefs so that as many reps agree with and listen to you is possible. Again, the illusion is the key to power.

I know that as an amateurish analyst of sorts, if I tried to build a following on a radio show by actually telling the truth as I perceived it would be impossible. The scene is too complex for political speculation. To run a tight show would require a common controlled message to project to an audience. Even Alex Jones and those like him must maintain a tight overall message that is consistent. I would be raving about collectivists and neocons and conspiracies, turning off everyone, because they have expectations of pol talk shows.

So, hearing all this, it seems clearly impossible that any of the neocon pop conservs were ever honest Rep activists with high ethical standards, loyal to all the schmos. That was a fantasy of the 90's, when we all believed that conservatism was a deeply held ideology in DC- an ideology that those in DC really believed in like we did. Looking back we see how conservatism was discarded as soon as possible and was mainly used by the party and media as a means to control republicans.

Bayonne  posted on  2005-06-29   18:59:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Very good.. another aspect that is inherent it seems in western societies and is exploited by these people is altruism and it is used as you said against the people's own best interest..and they are in fact destroying themselves. In reading your post, I began to think about the group in the original article and I wonder if they arent in fact a front group? Nothing works better than to co-opt a group like this and use it to create fear and hate of Christians by those who aren't aware that this is not reflective of true Christianity. As you stated, anyone who isn't aware of these tactics needs to study to understand exactly how they operate..

"I've coined new words, like, "misunderstanding" and "Hispanically"." - GW Bush

Zipporah  posted on  2005-06-29   18:59:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I have made some posts in a similar vein and no ne seems to relate to them. I thought maybe I was paranoid about the Marxism because no ne else acknowledged the existence of what I thought were textbook signs of it.

I agree so much with your post!

When I was a teenager I was very interested in Russia, and read many books about Russia and the Soviet system. I also read the George Orwell books and others warning that the same thing could happen to our country if we were not careful.

Too many people are comparing what is happening with nazi Germany, but there are too many paralells to Soviet Russia, down to names like "New Freedom Initiative" and "Patriot Act" where the terms mean the opposite of what they seem. There are just too many similarities and most people just don't see it, or else they've been so bombarded with the Holocaust that they don't realize the horrors of the Soviet Union and the mass exterminations of millions upon millions that occured. I don't think the history books have much to say about it anymore!

Diana  posted on  2005-06-29   19:51:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

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