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Editorial
See other Editorial Articles

Title: Reverend Jeremiah Wright: Anti-American Or A Man Speaking Truth To Power
Source: Huffington Post
URL Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lecia ... d-jeremiah-wright_b_91848.html
Published: Mar 17, 2008
Author: Lecia Shorter
Post Date: 2008-03-17 12:19:30 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 895
Comments: 92

There has been quite a furry over the past week concerning some admittedly controversial statements made by Senator Obama's pastor, Reverend Jeremiah Wright. Yet if we look at Rev. Wright's statements in full context, they are nothing more than a man speaking truth to power. Rather than acknowledge the truth about the dark past of America, and in some instances the present, we are quick to charge anyone who removes the veil of our history as being racist and/or anti-American.

African American religious leaders have historically combined sociology, theology and politics. In some instances, it has been done to inspire change, and in other instances, to inspire awareness. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. is a prime example. Yet he was considered an agent of change and is celebrated for his courage and involvement in the Civil Rights movement through non-violent means. Why now is Rev. Wright viewed differently and even vilified? Is it because Dr. King was more eloquent in his speech than Rev. Wright. No! The answer can only lie in the fact that Rev. Wright is the pastor of an African American presidential hopeful who has seemingly wooed white America by running a campaign that has made every effort to transcend racial divisiveness. In other words, if Senator Obama is removed from the equation, how interested is America in the veracity or inflammatory nature of the comments made by Rev. Wright?

The comments of Rev. Wright deserve a closer analysis in order to determine whether they are in fact racist and anti-American, or, is the media engaging in nothing more than sensationalism in an effort to diminish Senator Obama's cross cultural appeal.

One of the primary comments criticized by the media is that Senator Obama knows what it means to be a black man in an America controlled by rich, white people. Does the malfeasance lie in the fact that Senator Obama grew up as a black man in America or that America is controlled by rich, white people? Certainly it cannot be the former. It is irrefutable that George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are rich, white men in control of economic, social and political policy in America. The question then becomes, is it racist or anti-American to say that Ameica is controlled by rich, white people or is this a truth spoken to power?

Another comment which is more shocking than anything else is Rev. Wright's announcement that Senator Clinton can never know what it means to be a black man in America, and, she has never been called the "n" word. Yet, whether we are speaking of Hillary Clinton or any other white person of privilege in this nation, the fact remains they can never know what it has meant, or what it means, to be a black man in America. Neither can they know how deeply hurtful it is to be called the "n" word or worse yet to be treated as a member of the "n" class. Unfortunately, as progressive as we would like to consider ourselves, racism is alive and well in our society. We have made strives but we still have a long road ahead.

Interestingly, although Bill Clinton has been spoken of as the first black president of the United States, Rev. Wright said Bill Clinton did to black people what he did to Monica Lewinski, "he was riding dirty." In other words, Bill Clinton had an intimate relationship with a mesmerized young woman with no intention of treating her with dignity or respect. The impact of the three strikes laws on the African American community and funding of prisons to the detriment of education and healthcare is a prime example.

A close look at any state budget in this country will reveal that the majority of state resources are directed toward prisons to the detriment of education and other necessary state programs. Many states are experiencing critical budget crisis but they will not compromise where the prison systems are concerned. In the past five years alone, states have faced a combined $200 billion in budget gaps. Meanwhile, prisons continue to consume a larger portion of the state budget pie--$35 billion annually in 1999, up from $17 billion in 1990--rendering them a bigger target for budget cutters. From 1985 to 2000, prison budgets grew at six times the rate of higher education budgets. If imprisoned, the Black man provides jobs and economic opportunities for the white underclass. The three strikes law and mandatory sentencing is a good way of ensuring the prison system stays in business and correctional officers employed.

Another example is Bill Clinton's welfare reform which eliminated Aid to Families With Dependent Children and forced women into low paying jobs with no consideration for child care. Thus, a new category of the working poor.

Finally, Rev. Wright spoke of the lies of the American government. According to Rev. Wright, the American government lied about the connection of Al Qaeda to Saddam Hussein, the connection of 9/11 to Operation Iraqi Freedom, and weapons of mass destruction. Ironically, the goal of the Democratic Party is to unseat the current administration because of these very lies and the detriment they have caused to our economy and standing in the world. The remaining Bush supporters are among the rare few who choose to think otherwise. They (Sean Hannity) are also believed to be the originators of this controversy.

Once again, the American public is being duped. Unfortunately, Senator Obama is receiving the brunt of it all. He is now being charged as being associated with a racist and anti-American minister by white Americans and lacking allegiance by African American ministers. There has been no focus on John McCain's spiritual advisors or the Reverend Billy Graham who was heard on tape speaking against the Jewish people to former president Richard Nixon. Hopefully, Americans will look beyond the rhetoric and analyze Senator Obama's capacity to be president upon his record and ideological perspectives about the issues that really matter to this country. Subscribe to *Obama 2008*

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#15. To: robin (#13)

Frank Schaeffer: Obama's Minister Committed "Treason" But When My Father Said the Same Thing He Was a Republican Hero.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-03-17   14:17:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: mirage (#14)

So far your homework earns a D-.

I gave links to show you how incorrect your previous statements were. You of course, did not acknowledge any of it.

Have you ever heard of social injustice? It is not blame whitey, it is blame racism in the system.

I posted this to you on the other thread:

But recent research has kept the argument alive. A 2005 study by the Justice Department found that while Hispanic, black and white drivers were stopped by the police about as often, Hispanic drivers or their vehicles were searched 11.4 percent of the time and blacks 10.2 percent of the time, compared with 3.5 percent for white drivers. Data collected from state courts by the Justice Department also shows that a higher percentage of black felons than white felons receive prison sentences for nearly all offenses, and also that blacks receive longer maximum sentences for most offenses.

www.nytimes.com/2007/10/0...w&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Even Dr. Paul has commented on this sort of injustice.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   14:21:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: robin (#16)

Have you ever heard of social injustice? It is not blame whitey, it is blame racism in the system.

"Social Injustice" for the most part is a canard used by those who want someone else to give them a handout. It has no place in Christian Theology until someone finds a passage in the Bible that says "The rules apply to everyone EXCEPT government-sponsored victim groups."

If you want to blame racism in the system, are you referring to Affirmative Action, which is Government-Sponsored Racism in FAVOR of so-called "disadvantaged minorities"? If so, you label yourself as a racist, not that there is anything wrong with that, but wear the label proudly if you choose to go that route. Get a button that says "Throw Whitey to the back of the bus." See how well that works.

Socioeconomics and culture are the really big players; skin color is less so a player these days. Skin color is actually a minority of issues since we've been training police properly. It just gets the headlines because the news media loves a feeding frenzy and can't get their minds out of the 1960s and understand that the country has evolved.

Now...are you saying that people of color should be allowed to get away with things that others are not for "social justice" purposes? Would that not be racist on its face and unjust to other groups not so highly favored by your "social justice" theory? Or do you believe the law should apply equally to all people at all times?

Studies show that Hispanics tend to drive drunk more often than anyone else. Its a cultural thing. Should we limit the number of DUI arrests on Hispanics because Asians don't tend to drive drunk or should we set quotas where if you arrest a hundred Hispanics, you have to arrest a hundred Asians? Would that be fair? Should we go to quota systems and use Affirmative Action in murder trials? We let the killer go because we hit the quota?

I'm having problems trying to keep up with this stuff because it is unequal and makes little to no sense. Either we do something or we don't. Its binary. It is "yes" or it is "no." This half-assed stuff makes a mockery of equal protection under the law and bring Animal Farm two steps closer to reality.

The way to end racism is to end racism. Period.

The way to perpetuate it is to do what we have been doing and let canards like "social justice" where people are granted special favors run wild. You cannot make up for the ills of 500 years ago today. Those people are gone forever. What you can do is build a better tomorrow but that is impossible until people let go of historical grievances and decide to move forward into the future rather than being mired in the past.

America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.

mirage  posted on  2008-03-17   14:51:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: mirage (#2)

the Reverend skips that last part

That's because he's a high-functioning retard, just like every other "holy" man.

nobody  posted on  2008-03-17   14:56:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: mirage (#17)

But recent research has kept the argument alive. A 2005 study by the Justice Department found that while Hispanic, black and white drivers were stopped by the police about as often, Hispanic drivers or their vehicles were searched 11.4 percent of the time and blacks 10.2 percent of the time, compared with 3.5 percent for white drivers. Data collected from state courts by the Justice Department also shows that a higher percentage of black felons than white felons receive prison sentences for nearly all offenses, and also that blacks receive longer maximum sentences for most offenses.

www.nytimes.com/2007/10/0...w&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Even Dr. Paul has commented on this sort of injustice.

What part of this study do you not understand? It is well known and has been well documented in more than one study.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   15:02:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: robin (#9)

Paul and a lot of other people have said the same thing, however NOT in the form of a racist rant.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-17   15:03:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: robin (#19)

What part of this study do you not understand?

I'm going to explain something to you here.

There is a difference between "equal opportunity" and "equal outcome" and these studies and you don't understand that difference.

Equal Opportunity means just that; everyone has the same chance at things. Equal Outcome is what you're talking about with "social justice" - these studies complain that "its unequal!" and are therefore calling for equal outcome.

But people are not equal. Cultures are not equal. Societies are not equal. True equality can never be achieved; all that can be achieved is equal OPPORTUNITY because people are different. They have different gifts, different sizes, and different abilities.

If I were to tell you that Hispanics drive drunk more than Asians, would you not expect a higher percentage of Hispanics to be convicted of a DUI? If you don't say "Why, if more Hispanics drive drunk, I'd expect more DUI stops on Hispanics" then you need to sit down and ask yourself why you don't expect more DUI stops on Hispanics if they have a greater tendency to drive drunk.

Think about it for a minute. If a group has a higher tendency to do something, then the police are going to stop more of them and less of someone else, right? Does that not make sense? It does to most people.

This is one of those "Duh" moments. Genetically, American Indians are alcoholics. They didn't evolve the ability to deal with alcohol and they didn't make it themselves. Would you not expect them to have problems with it once they were introduced to it? Thinking people would. Thinking people know that not everyone is the same.

Your study does NOT take differences among groups into account. It doesn't take into account that people and cultures are different. Behind the scenes, it tries to say "But we're all the same!" -- WE ARE NOT ALL THE SAME.

That is where your argument fails. People are different. Cultures are different. Equal Outcome is a non-starter. It simply does not work.

"Social Justice" demands equal outcome. It doesn't work because people are not all the same. It would only work if all people had the same background, the same education, the same genes, the same upbringing, etc.

It just doesn't work. Regardless of what Dr. Paul says, he misses the fact that Equal Outcome DOES NOT WORK. It never has and it never will until and unless all people are identical - the same - no variations between them.

That is why the argument fails.

America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.

mirage  posted on  2008-03-17   15:18:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: mirage (#21)

Therefore don't even bother to try to remove social injustice? That's absurd and just plain wrong.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   15:25:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: nobody (#18)

That's because he's a high-functioning retard, just like every other "holy" man.

Well, not all of them. Some are really good at giving their flocks the knowledge and tools needed to make their way in the world. Others are not so good. Still others fail utterly.

Here at Chez Mirage, we have a great respect for those pastors who tend to their flocks and give them what they need to 'make it' in the world. We trash those who offer no real solutions.

America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.

mirage  posted on  2008-03-17   15:26:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: mirage (#23)

Never saw the need, my parents gave me more advice than I needed and all the pastors had nothing interesting to say, ever. Sorry, it is a fault of mine that I cannot relate to people from messed-up homes.

nobody  posted on  2008-03-17   15:30:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: robin (#22)

Therefore don't even bother to try to remove social injustice? That's absurd and just plain wrong.

It can't be done. Let me throw a situation out at you.

There are two people. One has an IQ of 60 and didn't finish grade school. The other has an IQ of 250 with a triple-PhD in physics, math, and mechanical engineering.

Which one becomes a rocket scientist?

"Social Justice" says that since there aren't too many low-IQ rocket scientists, you give the job to the guy with the IQ of 60 whether or not he can handle it.

What is more absurd? Recognizing that everyone has different talents or trying to make someone with an IQ of 60 a rocket scientist?

Do you start to see the problems with "equal outcome" which is what "social justice" mandates?

America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.

mirage  posted on  2008-03-17   15:36:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Brian S, aristeides, robin, all (#0)

Once again, the American public is being duped. Unfortunately, Senator Obama is receiving the brunt of it all. He is now being charged as being associated with a racist and anti-American minister by white Americans and lacking allegiance by African American ministers.

This surprises people? Y'all didn't think they were going to allow Obama the presidency, did you?

Vitamin Z  posted on  2008-03-17   15:40:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: mirage (#25)

This isn't about a career choice, this is about injustice in the judicial system.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   15:42:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: aristeides (#12)

No politician is ever going to be perfect.

Consequently, even politicians who want to end our wars will furnish grounds for criticism, if only through guilt by association.

You think Obama really wants to end all wars? Do you agree with Ron Paul's statement last week that Obama is a fraud, he has voted to fund the wars, and that he would actually expand the wars?

However, our media are only going to dwell on the failings of politicians who oppose the interests of the military-industrial complex.

Our media? LOL. Until a few weeks ago, Obama had received the best media coverage of any politician in recent memory.

Vitamin Z  posted on  2008-03-17   15:44:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: mirage (#25)

I believe I am at the point (aren't we all?) where I can usually recognize a genius in some field of knowledge and have no inclination to consider their lack of religious affiliation as being automatically relevant.

nobody  posted on  2008-03-17   15:44:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: mirage, robin (#25)

It can't be done. Let me throw a situation out at you.

While employed by the FAA, our facility had zero "minorities". A young black male from NYC showed up unannounced for training and work. All was fine until we found out he knew NOTHING of what the job entailed. While he sat there doing noting for six months, we gave him manuals to read to try to give him some sort of background before he went to Oklahoma city to the FAA academy.

All of us apprised management that money was being wasted only to have racism thrown in our faces. After time he was sent to the Academy at great expense, to return as a total failure. Some of his grades were in the 20s and 30s. Now he has almost a year in and what to do with him????? Month after month he sat there, drawing a good salary because management dared not release him. He knew what was going on and that they dared not terminate him.

Finally they found him a Federal job in NYC doing something and he accepted it.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-17   15:50:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Cynicom (#30)

Well again, this is not about affirmative action, this is about the proven (by many studies, including the one in the link I posted here) injustice that exists in the judicial system.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   16:07:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: robin (#31)

Well again, this is not about affirmative action,

It is about them not wanting to improve their own lot, rather cry injustice and racism.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-17   16:10:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Cynicom (#32)

Maybe you missed this earlier post, to which I was referring:

But recent research has kept the argument alive. A 2005 study by the Justice Department found that while Hispanic, black and white drivers were stopped by the police about as often, Hispanic drivers or their vehicles were searched 11.4 percent of the time and blacks 10.2 percent of the time, compared with 3.5 percent for white drivers. Data collected from state courts by the Justice Department also shows that a higher percentage of black felons than white felons receive prison sentences for nearly all offenses, and also that blacks receive longer maximum sentences for most offenses.

www.nytimes.com/2007/10/0...w&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Even Dr. Paul has commented on this sort of injustice.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   16:14:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: robin (#33)

But recent research has kept the argument alive. A 2005 study by the Justice Department found that while Hispanic, black and white drivers were stopped by the police about as often, Hispanic drivers or their vehicles were searched 11.4 percent of the time and blacks 10.2 percent of the time, compared with 3.5 percent for white drivers. Data collected from state courts by the Justice Department also shows that a higher percentage of black felons than white felons receive prison sentences for nearly all offenses, and also that blacks receive longer maximum sentences for most offenses.

The state of CA this year is spending $8 billion dollars to fund the state prisons. I do not have the current makeup at hand but the last I knew, white inmates were in the small minority.

If that is still correct, that means the "others" are either there unjustly, OR, they commit more crime.

You are correct in that there is NO justice in the justice system, unless you have money or connections. O J Simpson comes to mind.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-17   16:22:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Cynicom, robin, all (#34)

Criminal justice is like military intelligence - an oxyMORON.

Lod  posted on  2008-03-17   16:37:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: lodwick (#35)

Indeed.

For justice you need the best Judge money can buy.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-17   16:38:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Brian S (#0)

One of the primary comments criticized by the media is that Senator Obama knows what it means to be a black man in an America controlled by rich, white people.

Change rich white people to rich Jewish people and it will be a correct statement. Most white people aren't Jewish and I am getting tired of being lumped in with them.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-03-17   16:45:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: RickyJ (#37)

Change rich white people to rich Jewish people and it will be a correct statement. Most white people aren't Jewish and I am getting tired of being lumped in with them.

Excellent observation - thanks.

Lod  posted on  2008-03-17   16:49:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: robin (#27)

This isn't about a career choice, this is about injustice in the judicial system.

There is no difference in the argument.

Hispanics drive drunk in greater numbers than Asians. This is a well-documented fact.

Your argument is that we should not be arresting "as many" Hispanics even if they drive drunk in greater numbers.

Your argument calls for a quota system. We get to a certain number of criminals from an ethnic group and we stop arresting them.

That is an absurd argument and is just as absurd as expecting a 60 IQ person to be able to be a rocket scientist.

Its less about race and more about culture and attitude.

Think about this one.

T-Bone is black and lives in the inner city. He thinks going to school is 'white' so he skips class and eventually drops out. He then goes off and robs a liquor store because he can't get a job due to his lack of ability to do basic math, speak coherent English, and because he didn't finish high school.

T-Bone made a choice early on that led him down the path to committing armed robbery.

Should T-Bone go to jail or not? Did he not make his own choices that led to his ending up in a jail cell?

"Social Justice" says its not his fault. After all, T-Bone is black and its just not fair that he dropped out of school and ended up putting a gun in someone's face.

You say that T-Bone is not responsible for his own actions and call for "social justice" - why? He set himself up to fail. He made a decision after setting himself up to fail to go and rob the store.

Tell me why T-Bone should not be held accountable for his own actions. Did he not do it all himself? Did he not make his own choices in this? If not, who made the choices for him and then forced him to pull a gun on a clerk in a liquor store?

America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.

mirage  posted on  2008-03-17   19:02:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: mirage (#39) (Edited)

This has everything to do with racism in the criminal justice system. I have now posted this about 4 times on this thread. You refuse to read or acknowledge this.

Data collected from state courts by the Justice Department also shows that a higher percentage of black felons than white felons receive prison sentences for nearly all offenses, and also that blacks receive longer maximum sentences for most offenses.

www.nytimes.com/2007/10/0...w&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   19:08:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: robin (#40)

This has everything to do with racism in the criminal justice system. I have now posted this about 4 times on this thread. You refuse to read or acknowledge this.

I read it and rejected it. I've already told you that.

I have also told you that he problem is that these studies lump people in together and assume they are all the same.

People are not the same. Crimes are not the same. They need to be looked at on a case-by-case basis.

Let's take your quote and I'll show you what is wrong with it and why the generalization fails:

Data collected from state courts by the Justice Department also shows that a higher percentage of black felons than white felons receive prison sentences for nearly all offenses, and also that blacks receive longer maximum sentences for most offenses.

Okay, so let's take a murder. Defendant 'A' simply shoots the victim in the head and he dies. Defendant 'B' tortures the victim for three days, shoots the victim a dozen times, then sodomizes the body twice after the victim died as well as eating part of it.

Which one should get the longer sentence or should they get the same sentence because, after all, "its just murder."

Both are 'murder' and show up in the statistics as 'murder' - but Defendant 'B' gets a much longer sentence because the jury is absolutely horrified at what he did. Defendant 'B' stood up on the stand and described the stew he made out of the victim, suggesting that more salt was needed.

Where is that in the 'study'?

Now, tell me why Defendant 'B' should not get a longer sentence than Defendant 'A'.

America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.

mirage  posted on  2008-03-17   19:17:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: mirage (#41)

It only makes sense that public defenders and lower-paid lawyers are less effective, and it comes back to the bell curve, via IQ/wealth, which are loosely correlated.

nobody  posted on  2008-03-17   19:25:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: mirage (#41)

I read it and rejected it.

Based on what? Your opinions over the results of many studies.

How arrogant!

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   19:29:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Brian S (#0)

Article - A close look at any state budget in this country will reveal that the majority of state resources are directed toward prisons to the detriment of education and other necessary state programs.

Common sense would indicate that this is mistaken. A casual look at a state budget proves it. It is difficult to believe any state directs the majority of its resources to prisons.

www.ebudget.ca.gov/agencies.html

In California, for the proposed 2008-09 budget, there is $141B total state funds. The cost of education dwarfs the prison budget, as does Health and Human Services.

$141B total

$10.7B - Corrections and Rehabilitation
$48.3B - K-12 Education
$15.1B - Higher Education
$40.2B - Health and Human Services
$13.4B - Business, Transportation and Housing

nolu_chan  posted on  2008-03-17   19:50:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: mirage, robin (#41)

tell me why Defendant 'B' should not get a longer sentence than Defendant 'A'.

Each has but one life to serve.

nolu_chan  posted on  2008-03-17   19:53:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: mirage, robin (#17)

The way to end racism is to end racism. Period.

How does one do that? If appeal to the hearts and minds of racists does not work, racism persists. The law operates on behavior, not beliefs.

How do you address the problem of a large facility whose hiring and discipline practices have resulted in identifiable preferential treatment for one group or another? (Where they are in power, a "minority" can render preferential treatment to themselves.)

Another problem from the sixties was certain unions who had greater demand for membership than the need for members. The long-standing and non-racist policy was to first accept children of existing union members. In some cases this filled the need for members for generations. But, if there were no Black members, how did one ever access employment in that field? (Also, how could a white plumber's son become an electrician?)

When there is identifiable unequal treatment, based on something such as race or other status, how should the law attempt to fashion a remedy?

nolu_chan  posted on  2008-03-17   20:05:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: nolu_chan, mirage (#45)

I have more faith in the details of these studies than mirage has. mirage just assumes they are faulty, I do not.

Obviously if someone has committed more than one crime in the process of another, that will be matched with a similar on the other side of the color divide.

But mirage is desperate to make a very weak case, why I can only speculate.

Anyone who does a little research will find there are numerous studies, with the details to insure accuracy.

From another study....

The results of two new studies which underscore the continuing injustice of racism in the application of the death penalty are being released through this report. The first study documents the infectious presence of racism in the death penalty, and demonstrates that this problem has not slackened with time, nor is it restricted to a single region of the country. The other study identifies one of the potential causes for this continuing crisis: those who are making the critical death penalty decisions in this country are almost exclusively white.

From the days of slavery in which black people were considered property, through the years of lynchings and Jim Crow laws, capital punishment has always been deeply affected by race. Unfortunately, the days of racial bias in the death penalty are not a remnant of the past.

And here's another....

Crimes and Punishment: Blacks in the Army's Criminal Justice System

Naomi Verdugo44;

Are Blacks discriminated against in U.S. Army courts-martial? This article reviews the literature and presents original research to address this question. Other topics examined include the overrepresentation of Blacks in the Army courts-martial and soldiers' perceptions of the fairness of the justice system. 1 examined all aggravated assault charges heard in Army courts-martial during a 6-year period and found several striking differences. White defendants are far more likely to have a pretrial agreement (i.e., plea bargain) than are Blacks (69% vs. 5 I%), and hence, Whites are more likely to plead guilty (87%) than are Blacks (72%). These same patterns are found when all courts-martial, regardless of offense, are analyzed for the same 6-year period. Once a defendant enters the Army courts-martial system, there is no statistical evidence of discrimination. If discrimination occurs in this process, it will occur where command- ers have greater discretion (e.g., for less serious offenses, prior to deciding on courts-martial). Suggestions for further research are offered.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   20:05:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: nolu_chan, mirage (#46) (Edited)

www.slashdoc.com/documents/32414

The “War on Drugs” established that the impact of incarceration would be used as a weapon to combat the illegal drug problem in this country. Unfortunately, this war against drugs has fallen disproportionately on black Americans. “Blacks constitute 62.6% of all drug offenders admitted to state prisons in 1996, whereas whites constituted 36.7%. The drug offender admissions rate for black men ranges from 60 to an astonishing 1,146 per 100,000 black men. In contrast, the white rate begins at 6 and rises no higher than 139 per 100,000 white men. Drug offenses accounted for nearly two out of five of all black admissions to state prisons (Human Rights Watch, 2000).” The disproportionate rates at which black drug offenders are sent to prison originate in racially disproportionate rates of arrest.

This brings up the question; do blacks use drugs more than whites? Contrary to public belief, the higher arrest rates of black drug offenders do not reflect higher rates of drug law violations. Whites, actually, commit more drug crimes than blacks. “By 1988, with national anti-drug efforts in full force, blacks were arrested on drug charges at five times the rate of whites. Statistical as well as anecdotal evidence indicate drug possession and drug selling cut across all racial, socio-economic and geographic lines. But, because drug law enforcement resources have been concentrated in low-income, predominantly minority urban areas, drug offending whites have been disproportionately free from arrest compared to blacks (Human Rights Watch, 2000).”

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   20:09:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: mirage, robin, all (#41)

Where is that in the 'study'?

Now, tell me why Defendant 'B' should not get a longer sentence than Defendant 'A'.

Unless this Justice dept. study goes into detail about each crime, and the prior background of criminals involved, this document is just one more a useless govt. document. I pray to god that some here could see the savage carnage some man-animals of color leave in their wake. The brutality involved just might make them shuck their liberal clothing and join reality.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-03-17   20:15:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Jethro Tull (#49)

There are plenty of studies and more details if you choose to examine them, as I noted in another post. If you think a study would be so inaccurate w/o checking then you have an agenda. I found 2 more studies and here's another:

Let's dispense with all the legalese: if you are black and deal you will be treated 10 times worse than if you are white and deal drugs. That's the bottom line.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   20:19:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Jethro Tull, mirage (#50)

And another study:

Black youths are six times more likely to be incarcerated than whites, even when they are charged with the same crimes and have never been in detention before.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   20:22:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: robin (#19)

But recent research has kept the argument alive. A 2005 study by the Justice Department found that while Hispanic, black and white drivers were stopped by the police about as often, Hispanic drivers or their vehicles were searched 11.4 percent of the time and blacks 10.2 percent of the time, compared with 3.5 percent for white drivers.

Hellooooooooo............is there anything here that mentions that blacks and Hispanics *agreed* to allow their cars to be searched? That's a common tactic by the PD and shame on the dopes who agree to let it happen.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-03-17   20:24:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Jethro Tull (#52)

Data collected from state courts by the Justice Department also shows that a higher percentage of black felons than white felons receive prison sentences for nearly all offenses, and also that blacks receive longer maximum sentences for most offenses.

You left out the more interesting sentence that follows.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   20:27:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: robin (#53)

nearly all offenses, and also that blacks receive longer maximum sentences for most offenses

Beware of the modifiers, *nearly* and *most*. Given it's a govt. study, and details are missing, these words can, and do, disguise a multitude of sins.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-03-17   20:50:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: robin (#43)

How arrogant!

Yes, how arrogant that I read through your study and determined they looked at a spreadsheet of statistics that had no bearing on the individual cases and found not a shred of evidence that they looked at cases individually.

A friend of mine was torn limb from limb by a meth addict in his own house.

According to you, the perp got a "much stiffer sentence than was merited" and "social justice" demands that the perp get let out.

Go explain that to his 4-year old daughter, that her father's killer doesn't merit the death penalty.

How arrogant indeed that daughters are left without fathers and you complain about the justice system in the manner you do.

Should not someone who physically tore a man's limbs off get a stiffer sentence?

Or are you so smug and self-righteous that you can brush off facing a four-year old and telling her that since her daddy's killer was not white and that the KILLER is a victim of injustice?

I'm really starting to get disgusted by you here because you can't think beyond your polarizing political conditioning to see beyond your rhetoric into reality.

Case-by-case is the only way this stuff can be examined. Not heaps of statistics on a spreadsheet. Case-by-case.

I'll arrange the meeting with the four-year old and her grandmother for you if you have the guts to tell her that her daddy's killer is a victim of injustice.

I'll bet real money you don't. Revel in your self-rightousness and run from the victims of crimes. Its best that way. You won't have to deal with reality then.

America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.

mirage  posted on  2008-03-17   20:51:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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