[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help] 

Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

A Comprehensive Guide To Choosing The Right Protein Powde

3-Time Convicted Violent Criminal Repeatedly Threatened to Kidnap and Kill Judge Cannon and Her Family

Candace Owens: Kamala Harris is not Black Â…

Prof. John Mearsheimer: Israel NOT Going To Win In Lebanon

Iran to destroy all Israel gas fields, power plants at once if Tel Aviv makes mistake: Deputy IRGC chief

Army Vet Calls Out FEMA for Prioritizing Migrants Over Hurricane Victims, Takes Matters Into His Own Hands

Unemployment among 25-34-year-olds with degrees nearly doubles in 4 months

Silver breaks 13-year resistance, signaling potential new secular trend

Two Ukrainian officials found with $6M cash, yet Hurricane Helene victims struggle for aid?

Elite colleges shocked: Students "Don't know how' to read books."

Is Washington's 'high threat' volcano about to blow? Scientists baffled by record spike in earthquakes around Mount Adams

FEMA whistleblowers revealed a treasonous misuse of taxpayer funds.

Exposing how useless FEMA is in Asheville, NC.

Kamala Harris Admin ARRESTED a man for bringing a helicopter full of supplies to Hurricane Helene victims.

MSNBC brings on an anti-Trump impeachment witness, only to be stunned when he announces he's voting for Trump.

She escaped the religious sect she grew up in. Now she says Trump’s MAGA movement is eerily similar

Federal Law REQUIRES Car Makers to MONITOR You

Candace Owens: When are you going to address this, KAMALA?

Democrats Celebrate a Seemingly Impressive September Jobs Report – What They are Not Telling You

The Boiling Point – America Have You Had ‘Enough,’ Yet?

Shopping Malls Implementing Curfews And Teen "Waiting Zones" To Try And Curb Chaos, Theft And Fights

US Public Debt Grew $115 Billion A Day For the Past 3 Days Totaling $345 Billion.

Dramatic Footage Shows Tanker Blown Up In Critical Maritime Chokepoint As Disasters Mount For Biden-Harris

The Remdesivir Papers: Did Service Members Deserve to Die?

“My Blood is Boiling”: Furious Elon Musk Goes Off on FEMA for Blocking SpaceX Engineers from Assisting

“The Stench is Unbearable”: Dead Bodies Piling Up, FEMA Abandons NC Residents Amid Hurricane Helene

Cash and the Constitution

Disaster Relief (INSIDER) Tells Why FEMA Won't Let Citizens Help.

The $212 Billion Dollar Food ingredient poisoning your Brain

"Last Election EVER" - Elon Musk vs Mark Cuban: Billionaires BATTLE Over Dangers If Trump Loses 2024


Editorial
See other Editorial Articles

Title: Reverend Jeremiah Wright: Anti-American Or A Man Speaking Truth To Power
Source: Huffington Post
URL Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lecia ... d-jeremiah-wright_b_91848.html
Published: Mar 17, 2008
Author: Lecia Shorter
Post Date: 2008-03-17 12:19:30 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 931
Comments: 92

There has been quite a furry over the past week concerning some admittedly controversial statements made by Senator Obama's pastor, Reverend Jeremiah Wright. Yet if we look at Rev. Wright's statements in full context, they are nothing more than a man speaking truth to power. Rather than acknowledge the truth about the dark past of America, and in some instances the present, we are quick to charge anyone who removes the veil of our history as being racist and/or anti-American.

African American religious leaders have historically combined sociology, theology and politics. In some instances, it has been done to inspire change, and in other instances, to inspire awareness. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. is a prime example. Yet he was considered an agent of change and is celebrated for his courage and involvement in the Civil Rights movement through non-violent means. Why now is Rev. Wright viewed differently and even vilified? Is it because Dr. King was more eloquent in his speech than Rev. Wright. No! The answer can only lie in the fact that Rev. Wright is the pastor of an African American presidential hopeful who has seemingly wooed white America by running a campaign that has made every effort to transcend racial divisiveness. In other words, if Senator Obama is removed from the equation, how interested is America in the veracity or inflammatory nature of the comments made by Rev. Wright?

The comments of Rev. Wright deserve a closer analysis in order to determine whether they are in fact racist and anti-American, or, is the media engaging in nothing more than sensationalism in an effort to diminish Senator Obama's cross cultural appeal.

One of the primary comments criticized by the media is that Senator Obama knows what it means to be a black man in an America controlled by rich, white people. Does the malfeasance lie in the fact that Senator Obama grew up as a black man in America or that America is controlled by rich, white people? Certainly it cannot be the former. It is irrefutable that George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are rich, white men in control of economic, social and political policy in America. The question then becomes, is it racist or anti-American to say that Ameica is controlled by rich, white people or is this a truth spoken to power?

Another comment which is more shocking than anything else is Rev. Wright's announcement that Senator Clinton can never know what it means to be a black man in America, and, she has never been called the "n" word. Yet, whether we are speaking of Hillary Clinton or any other white person of privilege in this nation, the fact remains they can never know what it has meant, or what it means, to be a black man in America. Neither can they know how deeply hurtful it is to be called the "n" word or worse yet to be treated as a member of the "n" class. Unfortunately, as progressive as we would like to consider ourselves, racism is alive and well in our society. We have made strives but we still have a long road ahead.

Interestingly, although Bill Clinton has been spoken of as the first black president of the United States, Rev. Wright said Bill Clinton did to black people what he did to Monica Lewinski, "he was riding dirty." In other words, Bill Clinton had an intimate relationship with a mesmerized young woman with no intention of treating her with dignity or respect. The impact of the three strikes laws on the African American community and funding of prisons to the detriment of education and healthcare is a prime example.

A close look at any state budget in this country will reveal that the majority of state resources are directed toward prisons to the detriment of education and other necessary state programs. Many states are experiencing critical budget crisis but they will not compromise where the prison systems are concerned. In the past five years alone, states have faced a combined $200 billion in budget gaps. Meanwhile, prisons continue to consume a larger portion of the state budget pie--$35 billion annually in 1999, up from $17 billion in 1990--rendering them a bigger target for budget cutters. From 1985 to 2000, prison budgets grew at six times the rate of higher education budgets. If imprisoned, the Black man provides jobs and economic opportunities for the white underclass. The three strikes law and mandatory sentencing is a good way of ensuring the prison system stays in business and correctional officers employed.

Another example is Bill Clinton's welfare reform which eliminated Aid to Families With Dependent Children and forced women into low paying jobs with no consideration for child care. Thus, a new category of the working poor.

Finally, Rev. Wright spoke of the lies of the American government. According to Rev. Wright, the American government lied about the connection of Al Qaeda to Saddam Hussein, the connection of 9/11 to Operation Iraqi Freedom, and weapons of mass destruction. Ironically, the goal of the Democratic Party is to unseat the current administration because of these very lies and the detriment they have caused to our economy and standing in the world. The remaining Bush supporters are among the rare few who choose to think otherwise. They (Sean Hannity) are also believed to be the originators of this controversy.

Once again, the American public is being duped. Unfortunately, Senator Obama is receiving the brunt of it all. He is now being charged as being associated with a racist and anti-American minister by white Americans and lacking allegiance by African American ministers. There has been no focus on John McCain's spiritual advisors or the Reverend Billy Graham who was heard on tape speaking against the Jewish people to former president Richard Nixon. Hopefully, Americans will look beyond the rhetoric and analyze Senator Obama's capacity to be president upon his record and ideological perspectives about the issues that really matter to this country. Subscribe to *Obama 2008*

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

Comments (1-41) not displayed.
      .
      .
      .

#42. To: mirage (#41)

It only makes sense that public defenders and lower-paid lawyers are less effective, and it comes back to the bell curve, via IQ/wealth, which are loosely correlated.

nobody  posted on  2008-03-17   19:25:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: mirage (#41)

I read it and rejected it.

Based on what? Your opinions over the results of many studies.

How arrogant!

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   19:29:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Brian S (#0)

Article - A close look at any state budget in this country will reveal that the majority of state resources are directed toward prisons to the detriment of education and other necessary state programs.

Common sense would indicate that this is mistaken. A casual look at a state budget proves it. It is difficult to believe any state directs the majority of its resources to prisons.

www.ebudget.ca.gov/agencies.html

In California, for the proposed 2008-09 budget, there is $141B total state funds. The cost of education dwarfs the prison budget, as does Health and Human Services.

$141B total

$10.7B - Corrections and Rehabilitation
$48.3B - K-12 Education
$15.1B - Higher Education
$40.2B - Health and Human Services
$13.4B - Business, Transportation and Housing

nolu_chan  posted on  2008-03-17   19:50:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: mirage, robin (#41)

tell me why Defendant 'B' should not get a longer sentence than Defendant 'A'.

Each has but one life to serve.

nolu_chan  posted on  2008-03-17   19:53:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: mirage, robin (#17)

The way to end racism is to end racism. Period.

How does one do that? If appeal to the hearts and minds of racists does not work, racism persists. The law operates on behavior, not beliefs.

How do you address the problem of a large facility whose hiring and discipline practices have resulted in identifiable preferential treatment for one group or another? (Where they are in power, a "minority" can render preferential treatment to themselves.)

Another problem from the sixties was certain unions who had greater demand for membership than the need for members. The long-standing and non-racist policy was to first accept children of existing union members. In some cases this filled the need for members for generations. But, if there were no Black members, how did one ever access employment in that field? (Also, how could a white plumber's son become an electrician?)

When there is identifiable unequal treatment, based on something such as race or other status, how should the law attempt to fashion a remedy?

nolu_chan  posted on  2008-03-17   20:05:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: nolu_chan, mirage (#45)

I have more faith in the details of these studies than mirage has. mirage just assumes they are faulty, I do not.

Obviously if someone has committed more than one crime in the process of another, that will be matched with a similar on the other side of the color divide.

But mirage is desperate to make a very weak case, why I can only speculate.

Anyone who does a little research will find there are numerous studies, with the details to insure accuracy.

From another study....

The results of two new studies which underscore the continuing injustice of racism in the application of the death penalty are being released through this report. The first study documents the infectious presence of racism in the death penalty, and demonstrates that this problem has not slackened with time, nor is it restricted to a single region of the country. The other study identifies one of the potential causes for this continuing crisis: those who are making the critical death penalty decisions in this country are almost exclusively white.

From the days of slavery in which black people were considered property, through the years of lynchings and Jim Crow laws, capital punishment has always been deeply affected by race. Unfortunately, the days of racial bias in the death penalty are not a remnant of the past.

And here's another....

Crimes and Punishment: Blacks in the Army's Criminal Justice System

Naomi Verdugo44;

Are Blacks discriminated against in U.S. Army courts-martial? This article reviews the literature and presents original research to address this question. Other topics examined include the overrepresentation of Blacks in the Army courts-martial and soldiers' perceptions of the fairness of the justice system. 1 examined all aggravated assault charges heard in Army courts-martial during a 6-year period and found several striking differences. White defendants are far more likely to have a pretrial agreement (i.e., plea bargain) than are Blacks (69% vs. 5 I%), and hence, Whites are more likely to plead guilty (87%) than are Blacks (72%). These same patterns are found when all courts-martial, regardless of offense, are analyzed for the same 6-year period. Once a defendant enters the Army courts-martial system, there is no statistical evidence of discrimination. If discrimination occurs in this process, it will occur where command- ers have greater discretion (e.g., for less serious offenses, prior to deciding on courts-martial). Suggestions for further research are offered.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   20:05:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: nolu_chan, mirage (#46) (Edited)

www.slashdoc.com/documents/32414

The “War on Drugs” established that the impact of incarceration would be used as a weapon to combat the illegal drug problem in this country. Unfortunately, this war against drugs has fallen disproportionately on black Americans. “Blacks constitute 62.6% of all drug offenders admitted to state prisons in 1996, whereas whites constituted 36.7%. The drug offender admissions rate for black men ranges from 60 to an astonishing 1,146 per 100,000 black men. In contrast, the white rate begins at 6 and rises no higher than 139 per 100,000 white men. Drug offenses accounted for nearly two out of five of all black admissions to state prisons (Human Rights Watch, 2000).” The disproportionate rates at which black drug offenders are sent to prison originate in racially disproportionate rates of arrest.

This brings up the question; do blacks use drugs more than whites? Contrary to public belief, the higher arrest rates of black drug offenders do not reflect higher rates of drug law violations. Whites, actually, commit more drug crimes than blacks. “By 1988, with national anti-drug efforts in full force, blacks were arrested on drug charges at five times the rate of whites. Statistical as well as anecdotal evidence indicate drug possession and drug selling cut across all racial, socio-economic and geographic lines. But, because drug law enforcement resources have been concentrated in low-income, predominantly minority urban areas, drug offending whites have been disproportionately free from arrest compared to blacks (Human Rights Watch, 2000).”

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   20:09:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: mirage, robin, all (#41)

Where is that in the 'study'?

Now, tell me why Defendant 'B' should not get a longer sentence than Defendant 'A'.

Unless this Justice dept. study goes into detail about each crime, and the prior background of criminals involved, this document is just one more a useless govt. document. I pray to god that some here could see the savage carnage some man-animals of color leave in their wake. The brutality involved just might make them shuck their liberal clothing and join reality.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-03-17   20:15:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Jethro Tull (#49)

There are plenty of studies and more details if you choose to examine them, as I noted in another post. If you think a study would be so inaccurate w/o checking then you have an agenda. I found 2 more studies and here's another:

Let's dispense with all the legalese: if you are black and deal you will be treated 10 times worse than if you are white and deal drugs. That's the bottom line.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   20:19:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Jethro Tull, mirage (#50)

And another study:

Black youths are six times more likely to be incarcerated than whites, even when they are charged with the same crimes and have never been in detention before.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   20:22:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: robin (#19)

But recent research has kept the argument alive. A 2005 study by the Justice Department found that while Hispanic, black and white drivers were stopped by the police about as often, Hispanic drivers or their vehicles were searched 11.4 percent of the time and blacks 10.2 percent of the time, compared with 3.5 percent for white drivers.

Hellooooooooo............is there anything here that mentions that blacks and Hispanics *agreed* to allow their cars to be searched? That's a common tactic by the PD and shame on the dopes who agree to let it happen.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-03-17   20:24:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Jethro Tull (#52)

Data collected from state courts by the Justice Department also shows that a higher percentage of black felons than white felons receive prison sentences for nearly all offenses, and also that blacks receive longer maximum sentences for most offenses.

You left out the more interesting sentence that follows.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   20:27:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: robin (#53)

nearly all offenses, and also that blacks receive longer maximum sentences for most offenses

Beware of the modifiers, *nearly* and *most*. Given it's a govt. study, and details are missing, these words can, and do, disguise a multitude of sins.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-03-17   20:50:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: robin (#43)

How arrogant!

Yes, how arrogant that I read through your study and determined they looked at a spreadsheet of statistics that had no bearing on the individual cases and found not a shred of evidence that they looked at cases individually.

A friend of mine was torn limb from limb by a meth addict in his own house.

According to you, the perp got a "much stiffer sentence than was merited" and "social justice" demands that the perp get let out.

Go explain that to his 4-year old daughter, that her father's killer doesn't merit the death penalty.

How arrogant indeed that daughters are left without fathers and you complain about the justice system in the manner you do.

Should not someone who physically tore a man's limbs off get a stiffer sentence?

Or are you so smug and self-righteous that you can brush off facing a four-year old and telling her that since her daddy's killer was not white and that the KILLER is a victim of injustice?

I'm really starting to get disgusted by you here because you can't think beyond your polarizing political conditioning to see beyond your rhetoric into reality.

Case-by-case is the only way this stuff can be examined. Not heaps of statistics on a spreadsheet. Case-by-case.

I'll arrange the meeting with the four-year old and her grandmother for you if you have the guts to tell her that her daddy's killer is a victim of injustice.

I'll bet real money you don't. Revel in your self-rightousness and run from the victims of crimes. Its best that way. You won't have to deal with reality then.

America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.

mirage  posted on  2008-03-17   20:51:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: mirage (#55)

I have posted several more studies, the results are the same.

You may have read the study, but not the details. You never post a link or a quote just your own opinion. An opinion colored (pun intended) by what happened to your friend.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   20:54:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Jethro Tull (#54)

I have posted several studies, including studies that make it clear the crime and criminal history of the cases were the same.

There are many more. Not that any will convince you since it appears you have already made up your mind.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   20:56:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: robin (#57)

No, you could convince me will a well developed argument. I'd also love the opportunity to give you a tour of Harlem, Bed Sty, Brownsville and Jamaica, Queens. The black hatred of whitey is grossly under reported by the MSM who has an agenda of spreading the gospel of multiculturalism.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-03-17   21:05:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Jethro Tull (#58)

I have already posted several links to studies on this thread, I'm not going to repost them. Here's another one:

Philadelphia Study: Conclusions

After controlling for levels of crime severity and the defendant's criminal background, the average death sentencing rates in Philadelphia were .18 for black defendants and .13 for other defendants, which amounts to a 38% higher rate for blacks (coincidentally, these rates were approximately the same as the unadjusted rates on p.8). The disparities for various racial combinations of defendant and victim were even wider and are shown in the table below.

Whichever measures the researchers employed, the statistics pointed to the same conclusion: black defendants on average face a distinctly higher risk of receiving a death sentence than all other similarly situated defendants. The various independent tests were so thoroughly consistent that they pointed to race discrimination as the underlying cause. The researchers stated: "In the face of these results, we consider it implausible that the estimated disparities are a product of chance or reflect a failure to control for important omitted case characteristics. . . . In short, we believe it would be extremely unlikely to observe disparities of this magnitude and consistency if there were substantial equality in the treatment of defendants in this system."14

For those on death row from Philadelphia, these numbers translate into a harsh and deadly reality: if the death penalty were applied to blacks as it is to others, there would be far fewer blacks facing execution.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   21:08:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: mirage (#59)

ping

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   21:08:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Jethro Tull, robin (#58)

I'd also love the opportunity to give you a tour of Harlem, Bed Sty, Brownsville and Jamaica, Queens.

My last home in Queens Village is now part of a vast jungle. My last visit there was back in the 1970s. Remainder of the wifes family had moved out on Long Island.

When he retired they moved to upstate NY for SAFETY.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-17   21:12:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Jethro Tull (#58)

The black hatred of whitey is grossly under reported

Maybe social/criminal injustice is one of the reasons why.

There are neighborhoods in L.A. I don't drive through, and streets in San Diego. And something similar is true for blacks, they don't want to be pulled over and harassed by the police, guaranteed in certain neighborhoods.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   21:20:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: robin, mirage (#59)

re: social justice

I don't remember where I first heard it, but "social justice" is one of those phrases puts a kink in my neckbone, I think it come from Ford Foundation.

It sounds like something any reasonable person would support, until you discover the connection between such an innoculous sounding phrase and the hideous Marxist political agenda behind it. Social Justice is nothing more than the globalist equivalent of tyranny by special interest groups.

“Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life." - Jack Kerouac

Dakmar  posted on  2008-03-17   21:20:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Dakmar (#63)

I'm referring to injustice in the criminal/judicial system.

I posted many links to studies that show the inequity that continues to exist, for the same crime, the same criminal background.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-17   21:21:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: robin (#64)

I posted many links to studies that show the inequity that continues to exist, for the same crime, the same criminal background.

Social injustice occurs for anyone that cannot fight the system, regardless of color.

O J Simpson proved that point very well.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-17   21:24:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: robin (#62)

There are neighborhoods in L.A. I don't drive through, and streets in San Diego. And something similar is true for blacks, they don't want to be pulled over and harassed by the police, guaranteed in certain neighborhoods.

It's been since 1996 or so since Cops rioted and beat up on random citizens here in Indy. It's been about ten minutes I'd guess before an honest citizen was aggressed against by a lowlife of any color. People who live in public parks have already surrendered their 4th Amemdment rights if you ask me.

“Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life." - Jack Kerouac

Dakmar  posted on  2008-03-17   21:25:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: robin (#64)

I'm referring to injustice in the criminal/judicial system.

I know, and I'm in complete agreement with you on "the vision thing", but social justice is one of those terms set me on edge, like change agent or christian zionist.

“Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life." - Jack Kerouac

Dakmar  posted on  2008-03-17   21:31:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Cynicom, robin (#65)

Social injustice occurs for anyone that cannot fight the system, regardless of color.

Spoken like a true hardcore founder of the Social Injustice Movement! :)

“Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life." - Jack Kerouac

Dakmar  posted on  2008-03-17   21:34:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: robin (#56)

You may have read the study, but not the details.

They're not looking at it case-by-case. That's what the articles all say. "On average" -- well, "average" doesn't take into account mitigating circumstances or severity of crime.

Where is the case-by-case analysis? These guys don't do them. Read "The Color of Crime" and you might gain some enlightenment.

America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.

mirage  posted on  2008-03-17   21:37:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Dakmar (#68)

Spoken like a true hardcore founder of the Social Injustice Movement! :)

My last foray for justice involved political figures. I lost because the local Chief of Police got on the stand and perjured himself because of pressure. To make matters worse, he was an old family friend. On his death bed he said he was sorry.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-17   21:40:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Cynicom (#70)

That sort of nonsense would spook me too, and you have to officially join The Party to get the really timely notifications.

“Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life." - Jack Kerouac

Dakmar  posted on  2008-03-17   21:43:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Dakmar, robin (#63)

Social Justice is nothing more than the globalist equivalent of tyranny by special interest groups.

Bingo.

Every time I see one of these so-called studies, I always read "on average" which sets me off.

What is an "average" crime? What is an "average" armed robbery? Is it where they lock people up? Is it where they don't lock people up?

"On average" is a weasel-word when people want to hide the facts.

If someone were to say "An armed robbery where the perp was polite and didn't offer to kill the victim several times got 10 years whereas an armed robbery where the victims were tied up in the back and had their heads kicked in got 15 years".....yeah, then it would make some sense.

But these crusaders don't do that. They lump everything in together and say "The average murder..." - um, right. Like a mob hit where a guy pulls a gun and shoots his victim once, then leaves and Jeffery Dahmer are the same?

Nuh-uh. Not true and they never give citations other than "We went through the DC records..."

They don't give a list of crimes and the circumstances that might lead to a stiffer sentence. Its always "on average" as if there is an average crime!

America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.

mirage  posted on  2008-03-17   21:45:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: robin, cynicom, all (#62)

Maybe social/criminal injustice is one of the reasons why.

So we're looking for the famed 'root cause' are we?

John Lindsey made a political career out of that, and when he left NYC it was uninhabitable.

Maybe Dr. William Shockley was correct after all, or do you dismiss his work out of hand?

And what makes you believe all those black prisoners you cite are innocent? Does that Justice Dept study discuss prior arrests? Was there a complainant identifying them as the perpetrator? If yes, how does the system release them? Also please address my question about the car stops. How many black and Hispanics agreed to having their vehicle searched? And, btw, it was standard practice for 'hood denizens to not carry registrations, etc, so what is a cop to do when Jose or Jemal is stopped and produces nada in the way of ownership? When that happened to me, I assumed the car didn't belong to them and was possibly stolen. That's reasonable, right?

robin, there isn't a thing I've posted that hasn't happened to me. To me liberalism is a feel good mental disorder that will, in time, get you or your family killed. For sure it is ruining the nation. Please back up off the cliff and take a reasoned look at America. Racism isn't destroying it. Socialism is.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-03-17   21:45:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: mirage (#72)

They don't give a list of crimes and the circumstances that might lead to a stiffer sentence. Its always "on average" as if there is an average crime!

The Average Crime is committed by a blue-collar factory worker angry about NAFTA.

Serious! :)

“Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life." - Jack Kerouac

Dakmar  posted on  2008-03-17   21:50:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Jethro Tull, robin (#73)

I print this all the time because it is true and it is what is destroying this country...

" Most importantly of all, revealed in this work is the one true cause of the rise and fall of the world's greatest empires - that all civilizations rise and fall according to their racial homogeneity and nothing else - a nation can survive wars, defeats, natural catastrophes, but not racial dissolution."

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-17   21:51:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: Cynicom (#75)

Social engineering is the root cause of discord, as it is meant. Happy, functional societies come together on their own.

“Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life." - Jack Kerouac

Dakmar  posted on  2008-03-17   21:52:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: Cynicom (#75)

Ironically, the homogeneity of nations/neighborhoods years ago was true diversity. If I wanted a good Italian meal, I went to Little Italy; for Chinese, Chinatown, for a cold libation, Bay Ridge, Brooklyn. This *forced* (as in section 8 housing) mixed and mingle has been a social disaster, foisted on us by academics and condoned by those folks lucky enough to not be affected.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-03-17   22:00:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: robin (#59)

here we go again...

So your excerpt here says:

the average death sentencing rates
black defendants on average

So...where is the actual crime? Where is the severity of the crime? Where is the fact that the perp not only killed the guy but sodomized his body and thus got a stiffer sentence?

In all of these articles you post -- those bits are missing entirely. There is absolutely no context to put it in.

Was it a stiffer sentence? You can't tell because they don't include enough data for you to draw a conclusion about it. Thus, these "studies" are suspect and it reads as if they threw together a spreadsheet and said "Damn, them blacks get stiffer sentences" without looking at the underlying detail.

I guarantee you that with someone who is simply "killed" they get a lighter sentence than the guy who not only kills his victim, but makes a stew out of his bones too.

America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.

mirage  posted on  2008-03-17   22:02:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: robin, Jethro Tull (#51) (Edited)

Let's pull something from the article:

Black youths are six times more likely to be incarcerated than whites, even when they are charged with the same crimes and have never been in detention before.

Now, right away, what jumps out is "same crime" and no mention of a prior rap sheet. For kids, going to detention is not an automatic, especially in Seattle, where this article came from.

Throughout the entire article, there is no mention of a prior rap sheet or truancy, which makes this suspect. OF COURSE a stiffer sentence comes down when there are priors, but they conveniently ignore this in the article.

Go re-read it. It makes no mention of priors. Its "same crime" but no mention of priors which DO lead to stiffer sentences. Armed Robbery plus Drug Dealing plus Grand Theft - those are three different crimes, yet the way this article is phrased, they could have all three THEN get picked up for vandalism but the author makes you think that doesn't happen.

The reader, not knowing any better, assumes that all kids have a clean rap sheet, but the article makes no mention of that whatsoever. Thus, the conclusions are suspect because we know of a factor that leads to a longer sentence that is NOT referred to here.

Its the same in all of your articles and studies. There is insufficient data or there is something critical to drawing a proper conclusion that is left out.

Couldn't be that there is an agenda, is there? Nah....that would NEVER happen at an ultra-liberal rag like the PI......never in a million years......and they've NEVER been caught in that before several times....

America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.

mirage  posted on  2008-03-17   22:10:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Jethro Tull (#77)

This *forced* (as in section 8 housing) mixed and mingle has been a social disaster

Sounds a lot like the "social engineering" I'm always freaked about. It's not enough to Celebrate Diversity these days, that's for inbred bigots. To be accepted into the cabal one must Promote Diversity these days.

“Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life." - Jack Kerouac

Dakmar  posted on  2008-03-17   22:11:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: Dakmar (#80)

It is social engineering. Was it Skinner who had this Utopian dream? Anyway....section 8 housing is the forebearer of this sub prime mortgage mess, but if I dare make the connection, I'll be called bad names :)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-03-17   22:21:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: robin, mirage (#47)

While crimes must undergo scrutiny individually to mete out justice fairly, statistical studies can show that punishments are meted out to one group disproportionately to such an extent that it becomes statistically impossible to rationalize away as impartial justice based upon individual circumstances. The interpretation of individual circumstances is found to favor one group to an extent that an inherent unfairness is apparent.

-----

In military courts-martial, almost everyone tried is convicted. With different spanks for different ranks, senior people are usually dealt with without trial.

A court-martial is not meant to be fair. It is part of the Executive system, not the Judicial system. The convening authority chooses to have the charges tried. A jury is provided by the convening authority. The military provides a military Jag Corps judge. The convening authority may even provide a military Jag Corps defense counsel. Upon conviction one may appeal... to the convening authority.

From 1997-2000, including all forms of courts-martial, the U.S. Navy achieved a 96.7% conviction rate. In some years, a branch of service achieved a perfect 100% conviction rate for General Courts-Martial.

The reason for the existence of the military courts is the furtherance of good order and discipline, not the promotion of fairness or justice. A a Summary Court, there is no automatic right to counsel.

Held:
1. There is no Sixth Amendment right to counsel in a summary court-martial, since that proceeding is not a "criminal prosecution" as that term is used in the Amendment. ...

2. Nor does the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment require that counsel be provided the accused in a summary court-martial proceeding. ...

We have only recently noted the difference between the diverse civilian community and the much more tightly regimented military community in Parker v. Levy, 417 U.S. 733, 749 (1974). We said there that the UCMJ "cannot be equated to a civilian criminal code. ...

MR. JUSTICE STEWART dissents, believing that the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment requires that a defendant be accorded the assistance of counsel in a summary court-martial proceeding.

MR. JUSTICE MARSHALL, with whom MR. JUSTICE BRENNAN joins, dissenting.

We only recently held that, absent a waiver, "no person may be imprisoned for any offense, whether classified as petty, misdemeanor, or felony, unless he was represented by counsel at his trial." Argersinger v. Hamlin, 407 U.S. 25, 37 (1972). Today the Court refuses to apply Argersinger's holding to defendants in summary court-martial proceedings. Assuming for purposes of its opinion that the Sixth Amendment applies to courts-martial in general, the Court holds that, because of their special characteristics, summary courts-martial in particular are simply not "criminal prosecutions" within the meaning of the Sixth Amendment, and that the right to counsel is therefore inapplicable to them. I dissent.

-- Middendorf v. Henry, 425 U.S. 25 (1976)
Decision of the court by Rehnquist, CJ.

Thus, we find a Summary Court-Martial determined by the Supreme Court to be a disciplinary proceeding, rather than a judicial proceeding, with no requirement for presence of qualified legal counsel. Had they ruled otherwise on the Constitutional right to counsel, many years worth of summary courts would have been overturned on Constitutional grounds.

The right to counsel continues at a Special or General Court-Martial.

nolu_chan  posted on  2008-03-17   23:09:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



      .
      .
      .

Comments (83 - 92) not displayed.

TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest


[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help]