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(s)Elections
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Title: The Right And Obama's Speech (ANDREW SULLIVAN)
Source: Andrew Sullivan's Daily Dish
URL Source: http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.c ... 8/03/the-right-and-o.html#more
Published: Mar 18, 2008
Author: Andrew Sullivan
Post Date: 2008-03-19 10:39:13 by aristeides
Keywords: None
Views: 372
Comments: 28

The Right And Obama's Speech

For me, this is an epiphany of sorts. Not that I have changed my mind about the things I wrote in "The Conservative Soul." Not that I have stopped believing in limited government, individual freedom, personal responsibility, pragmatic change. But I have come to believe that large swathes of today's conservative movement truly are hateful. A reader writes:

I'll state right away that I am a McCain supporter. Still, I am very much drawn to Obama. It's not a silly, unthinking attraction. It has nothing to do with his race, and I have very little love for the Democratic party. I am also aware that he, in many ways, is just another politician. In other ways, he is anything but another politician.

Unfortunately (or fortunately), I was at my bank when Obama began his speech. I sat down with a group of people (all white, male and female) and watched. The collective groans coming from the group surprised me. Even when Obama was reaching out, saying things I felt were absolutely true, sincere and conciliatory, he was met with derision.

...

A couple people felt the need to talk back to the television as if Obama could hear them (as if their opinions were appropriate at that moment). This was done in public, in the midwest. A fairly moderate town overall. Maybe I'm out of touch, but what has happened over the past 16 years to my country?

Then I left, got in my car, turned on the radio and already Laura Ingram was taking soundbites of Obama's speech and mocking them, dismissing them out of hand while her listeners chimed in, supporting their queen of talk. I hate this all so much. But then I remembered that Obama will still probably get the nomination and face McCain. One is already great man, the other, Obama, may have taken his first step on his way to greatness. I hope America was listening.

I am immensely grateful that McCain is the nominee, because he is a far bigger man than many in the "conservative" movement today. To read the Corner today was to be reminded that some are immune to the grace and hope and civility that Reagan summoned at his best; the anger and bitterness is so palpably fueled by fear and racism it really does mark a moment of revelation to me.

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#1. To: aristeides (#0)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-03-19   10:42:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: ghostdogtxn (#1)

I don't agree with Sullivan on McCain.

But I think his reaction to the criticism of Obama's speech is interesting.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-03-19   10:43:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: aristeides (#0)

I am immensely grateful that McCain is the nominee, because he is a far bigger man than many in the "conservative" movement today. To read the Corner today was to be reminded that some are immune to the grace and hope and civility that Reagan summoned at his best; the anger and bitterness is so palpably fueled by fear and racism it really does mark a moment of revelation to me.

Ari...

You should be sent to your room with no supper for shoveling such trash into this 4um.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-19   10:45:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Cynicom (#3)

Trash? I think some of the things I have seen other people post on this forum over the past 24 hours is trash, and trash of the very kind Sullivan is writing about.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-03-19   10:47:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: aristeides (#4)

So, if others trundle in trash, Ari should stoop to that level?

Next you will be using profane/obscene language, just because others do.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-19   10:50:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: aristeides (#2)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-03-19   10:50:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Cynicom (#5)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-03-19   10:51:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Cynicom (#5)

I don't consider Sullivan's calling trash trash to be itself trash.

It is the truth.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-03-19   10:51:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: aristeides (#8)

I'll state right away that I am a McCain supporter. Still, I am very much drawn to Obama.

Truth is trash as above.

He is supporting two legs of the establishment triad, which means he is FOR all of them. All have been chosen by the establishment and Sullivan is a mouthpiece for them.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-19   10:55:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: ghostdogtxn, aristedes (#7)

One of these days Ari will lose his cool and POW, he will swear at me.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-19   10:57:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: ghostdogtxn (#1)

Me too, but at least he knows Laura Ingram is a total bitch. I'll never forget how she made fun of the Ron Paul supporters, and the outrageous introduction (it was just an all out attack) of Ron Paul. She did this to no other candidate.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-19   10:59:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: aristeides (#0)

Sullivan's not a racist, so he's anti-white.

Question Diversity

Tauzero  posted on  2008-03-19   11:00:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Cynicom (#10)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-03-19   11:21:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: robin (#11)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-03-19   11:22:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: ghostdogtxn, Aristedes (#13)

Ari gets terribly frustrated and a little profanity would vent the excess steam. However I know he is a gentleman, a nice guy, intelligent and I enjoy his company.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-19   11:24:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Cynicom (#15)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-03-19   11:35:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: ghostdogtxn (#14)

Not among Fox News viewers.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-19   11:40:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Cynicom (#9)

He is supporting two legs of the establishment triad, which means he is FOR all of them. All have been chosen by the establishment and Sullivan is a mouthpiece for them.

Sullivan=tool for the establishment. Just like those he supports (McCain and Obama).

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-03-19   11:40:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: James Deffenbach (#18)

James...

Sometimes the frustration caused by the Obamaphiles here on 4um makes me think of rowing upstream with a paddle filled with holes.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-19   11:47:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Cynicom (#19)

What I don't understand is people who claimed to be for Ron Paul, who is anything but a charlatan, statist whore, can decide to support someone who is. Just cannot understand that at all.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-03-19   11:55:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: robin (#17)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-03-19   12:10:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: James Deffenbach, Cynicom (#20)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-03-19   12:24:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: ghostdogtxn (#22)

Nice commentary. But I said a long time ago I was done trying to pick the "lesser of two evils." When they are all establishment whores there is no "lesser" to choose. I will probably write in Ron Paul assuming I live until the election. But I won't vote for any of the whores the establishment has tried to foist off on me.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-03-19   12:31:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: James Deffenbach (#23)

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-03-19   12:33:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: ghostdogtxn (#21)

Only what Limbaugh is able to re-enforce.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-19   12:56:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: aristeides (#0)

Andrew Sullivan: Why would anyone take this AIDS infected, gay, non citizen seriously? He's as conservative as Hillary.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-03-19   13:05:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: ghostdogtxn (#6)

People are growing tired of hating each other. It doesn't come natural to us.

It does if you can profit from it.

Keep in mind, the world runs on tribalism. Check what is going on in Belgium, Africa, and Asia for details.

America is the one place in the world where we try and say "come, bring the best from your homeland, leave the crap behind, and join us to build a new tomorrow."

But if there is profit in dividing people....it will be done.

Never underestimate that motivation. If someone can get ahead by squashing their neighbor, they will do it. Tax the smokers! Tax the rich! Then....GIVE IT TO ME!

America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.

mirage  posted on  2008-03-19   14:55:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Jethro Tull (#26)

Andrew Sullivan: Why would anyone take this AIDS infected, gay, non citizen seriously? He's as conservative as Hillary.

Sullivan, in his comment on Obama's speech, emphasizes how Christian a speech he finds it.

Since I detect not a drop of Christian sentiment in your post, I suppose I should not be surprised that you are unimpressed by his writing, and, I suppose, by Obama's speech.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-03-19   15:35:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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