4um: Obama: Trust Me to End the War

FAYETTEVILLE, N.C. (AP) — Barack Obama suggested Wednesday that Hillary Rodham Clinton could not be trusted to end the Iraq war because she only started opposing it when she began her bid for president.

In a speech not far from North Carolina's Fort Bragg military base, the Democratic presidential hopeful told military families and local officials that the war has emboldened al-Qaida, the Taliban, Iran and North Korea.

"Ask yourself," Obama told the crowd, "Who do you trust to end a war: someone who opposed the war from the beginning, or someone who started opposing it when they started preparing a run for president?"

Obama used the five-year anniversary of the Iraq invasion to again cast himself as the only true anti-war candidate, one who openly opposed the invasion as a state lawmaker. He renewed criticism of Clinton for voting to authorize the use of force against Iraq.

Clinton campaign spokesman Phil Singer responded: "The reality is that Senator Obama took practically no action to end the war until he started his White House run while Senator Clinton has been a consistent critic of Iraq for many years."

Obama also teased likely Republican nominee John McCain for a foreign policy gaffe Tuesday in which McCain, touring the Middle East, said several times that Iran was training al-Qaida in Iraq. Iran is a predominantly Shiite Muslim country and has been at pains to close its borders to al-Qaida fighters of the rival Sunni sect. After another senator on the trip, Joe Lieberman, an independent from Connecticut, whispered in his ear, McCain corrected himself to say Iran was training Shiite militants.

"Maybe that is why he voted to go to war with a country that had no al-Qaida ties," Obama said to laughter and applause. "Maybe that is why he completely fails to understand that the war in Iraq has done more to embolden America's enemies than any strategic choice that we have made in decades."

In the days before she won primaries in Texas and Ohio, Clinton argued that she was better prepared to be commander in chief and broadcast a television ad that asked who could handle a middle-of-the-night crisis. Obama countered that Clinton had bungled her crisis moment when she voted to authorize military force to oust Saddam Hussein.

"What we need in our next commander in chief is not a stubborn refusal to acknowledge reality or empty rhetoric about 3 a.m. phone calls," he said. "What we need is a pragmatic strategy that focuses on fighting our real enemies, rebuilding alliances and renewing our engagement with the world's people."

He said Clinton and McCain talk tough on national security yet make decisions that leave the country less secure.

"This is why the judgment that matters most on Iraq — and on any decision to deploy military force — is the judgment made first," Obama said.

Special forces from Fort Bragg were among the first soldiers in Iraq during the 2003 invasion and its paratroopers led last year's troop increase. President Bush visited the base to deliver his 2005 Independence Day speech, in which he warned that setting a timetable to withdraw from Iraq would only embolden terrorists.

"These are the mistaken and misleading arguments we hear from those who have failed to demonstrate how the war in Iraq has made us safer," Obama said.

Mark Salter, a senior adviser to McCain, responded: "John McCain wants American forces to come home when our clear and serious interests at stake in Iraq, which nearly 4,000 Americans have given their lives to secure, are truly safe, when al-Qaida is defeated; Iran's influence is contained, and the potential for a truly cataclysmic civil war in Iraq is remote. That, I think, is what is called 'making us safer.'"

Obama also defended his contention that the United States should act on intelligence about top terrorist targets in Pakistan even if President Pervez Musharraf refuses — a statement last year that drew criticism from Republicans.

"We have a security gap when candidates say they will follow Osama bin Laden to the gates of hell, but refuse to follow him where he actually goes," Obama said, referring to McCain's vow to chase down bin Laden.

North Carolina holds its primary May 6. Obama traveled to Charlotte on Wednesday evening for a town-hall meeting and a fundraiser.

“Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life." - Jack Kerouac

Too much. I don't think he sees himself that way. Others might want the art for their wall though.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

America is on its last legs, and that three CFR members, including one whose wife is a CFR member, another Clinton, and the author of SB 1378 is the GOP presumed nominee proves it.

I am not a liar. Obama like Ron Paul opposed the war before it started. Both have said they would close Gitmo and restore habeas corpus. Both have spoken out against torture.

How long have you known the posters/owners of 4um? I have known them a few years now, since before this 4um began, and I have met one of them.

I voted Republican since Nixon's 2nd term, up until '04. And I have stated this consistently.

You have called me liar and a "stupid bitch" today. This does not add to your credibility, believe me.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

Yes. A Democrat will "save us". Riiiggghhhtt. It's your vote and you have to do what you think is best. IMHO, one cannot become a United States Senator or successful presidential candidate without being a bought and paid for member of the two party fraud and their masters. The media will not allow a non-vetted member to get anywhere. As evidence, I present the presidential campaigns of Paul and Kucinich.

Mark my words, regardless of who wins the presidency, very little will change. The government will continue to grow at an unprecedented rate and our freedoms and liberties will decrease proportionally with that growth. Foreign policy in the Middle East will not change, and it is beganning to appear that the political masters may be taking an increasing interest in expoliting the resources of Africa. We will continue to be the bully of the world and use the tension this creates to whip up nationalistic feelings among the rubes of both parties, both in order to take attention away from the economy and the loss of liberties and to boost cannon-fodder numbers.

Having said that, I'm voting for whomever the Libertarian or Constitution Party candidate is. While I believe that the result of the election has already been determined, I'll at least cast my vote in opposition to the two party fraud. When it's tinme for me to become worm dirt, I'll at least know that I had nothing to do with destroying the country.

People in my neighborhood go out of their way to vote for creeps like McCain and Clinton, despite every indication I see that most are dissatisfied with the status quo. I had a savant cousin married a hindu rubber girl. My family never told me the rest of the story.

“Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life." - Jack Kerouac

I'm not sure what they knew, know, think, want, see, or care about. Furthermore, you just can't trust what they say anymore anyway. Operatives. Trying to find advantage in a game of politics, when there are bigger things at stake. I'm still looking for someone to share the decoder ring.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Both Obama and Ron Paul were against the war before it started and have said they would bring home our troops. Both Obama and Ron Paul have spoken out against the use of torture. Both Obama and Ron Paul said they would end Gitmo. Both Obama and Ron Paul have stated they would restore habeas corpus.

Ron Paul has a long history that we can confirm he means these things. The new guy doesn't. That's the gamble.

Have you seen the list of former presidents who belonged to CFR? Everyone must play the game at least a little.

I can't go along with that. It proves that we've lost the country. Getting it back does not start with voting for someone who appears to play the game a little more like the way we want it to be played.

Obama is a central planning collectivist who wants to use the power of government to take even more of my money in order to redistribute it to everyone He and his people think deserve it more than me and my own family. He's a crusader, which in and of itself is fine, except when he is in a position to force me to be a part of his crusade by stealing my money at gunpoint.

As I said, you have to do what you think is right, but I'm not going to vote for this POS just because he's against the war. He is everthing I have stood against my whole adult life. I haven't voted for a Republican since 1984 because I believed them to be central planning collectivists. I sure as hell won't back this yahoo just because he's against the war.

And here's another with an incomplete list (for example: Clinton and both Bushes):

I will mention the names of the United States Presidents who were members of the CFR: Franklin Roosevelt, Herbert Hoover, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Jack Kennedy [also, Nixon, and George Bush when they later became U.S. President..Ed ]. Others who were considered for the presidency are Thomas E. Dewey, Adlai Stevenson, and vice-president of a CFR subsidiary, Barry Goldwater. Among the important cabinet members of the various administrations we have John Foster Dulles, Allen Dulles, Cordell Hull, John J. MacLeod, Robert Morganthau, Clarence Dillon, Dean Rusk, Robert McNamara, and just to emphasize the "red color" of the "CFR;" we have as members such men as Alger Hess, Ralph Bunche, Pusvolsky, Haley Dexter White (real name Weiss), Owen Lattimore, Phillip Jaffey, etc., etc..

Maybe you prefer the way Bush does this with his friends through corporate welfare and a war?

He refers to all Americans for his health care ideas, which are not like Hillary's who will penalize people who do not choose a health care plan.

And his campaign is run by every color. He would not get away with special preference of one race or group. Certainly not the way Bush has gotten away with enriching his already rich friends.

And as if a member of the CFR is going to get elected, then go rogue and act independently. As long as there is a drop of oil in Iraq, as long as Iran is Israel's enemy, American troops will be in Iraq. This is the complete disconnect I see on the forum. People who have spent years reading and posting about the enemy within, suddenly think the system that is owned and controlled by the elite, is theirs to tap into. There must be something in the water.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this issue. I am philosophically against central planning collectivism, to include socialized healthcare. I refuse to have anything to do with him or the other two party fraud candidates. Whatever happens happens, but as I said before, I'll die knowing that I had nothing to do with it. I'll do like I've done since 1988 and vote Libertarian, or maybe Constitution Party if they have a candidate in my state.

It seems everyone is grasping for some kind of hope. I thought my hope had died years ago, then came Dr. Paul. Now that he has fizzled out, I'm right back to where I was. Oh well. What can you do but keep on keeping on.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

I don't know anything about a unity onion but I know that the American people want to be tax/regulation slaves to the federal, state and local governments and are working hard to make it come to pass. Freedom and liberty are too hard for them because it entails having to take responsibility for, and living with, the consequences of their decisions and actions, be they good or bad.

He wouldn't be where he is now if he wasn't. The elite need puppets they can control.

Ron Paul has a reputation for integrity and honesty. I've never heard him trash talk another candidate unless he was telling the truth. Furthermore, even John McCain once called Paul the "most honest man in Congress."

Within the past few weeks, Ron Paul has said that Obama is mostly a fraud, that he has voted to fund the wars, and that he will likely expand the wars.

Interesting, and this is only one State. . . . . the speaker of the House's state!

If this doesn't open your eyes, nothing will . . . .



From the L.A. Times
1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County ( L.A. County has 10.2 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.
4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.
7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking.
10. In L.A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L.A. County ).
(All of the above are from the Los Angeles Times)

Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare. Over 70% of the United States ' annual population growth (and over 90% of California , Florida , and New York )   results from immigration.    29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.

We are a bunch of fools for letting this continue.

WHY CAN'T WE SEND THEM HOME
HOW CAN YOU HELP? Send copies of this letter to at least two other people .. 100 would be even better.

< /div>

Yep. Well said. I would like to add a tiny caveat. They love the power to control others lives. Ron Paul said that should a man decide another has a cause and believes in it, let him take from his own funds. This does not sit well with some.

Freedom is hard, but harder on those that pay in blood for frauds, liars and traitors.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Ron Paul himself is not trying to overturn the apple cart. Talking a good game but then not doing anything about it, won't accomplish anything.

I can't see the pics for some reason, but have seen those stats before. CA was clanging the bell about the problems a decade ago, while the rest of the country laughed.

Naturalized citizens overwhelmingly voted to stop unchecked illegal immigration. The 9th circuit overturned the will of the people. They did it time and again, but still the people are blamed for being too stupid to fix it.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

(joining late) Me too. Paul and Obama are 180 degrees apart, except for Barry's verbal stance on Iraq. They seem to forget that a Paul administration would do all it could do dismantle the welfare state which Obama is resolute on expanding.

That's nice, but you completely missed the point of my post. The question is do you agree with Ron Paul's comments about Barack Obama? Try to focus on just that narrow issue for now.

Once the war was ended, they would have opposed any Paul efforts to dismantle the federal Diversitoid machinery.

Same goes for me. As a recovering Respectable Conservative, I could certainly overlook Paul's refusal to commit lashon hara vis-a-vis blacks. All I really need is my rights of contract, including my right to discriminate and enter into restrictive covenants with my neighbors. :)

Absolutely, robin. The CFR was formed by Rockefeller-tied people to promulgate global socialism. It has always had ties to the globalists in the Royal Institute for International Affairs, and the secret society that Cecil Rhodes established to unite the world under Anglo socialist dominance. One of its first overtly successful acts was to create the United Nations. A majority of America's delegates were CFR members. Edward Mandell House, the CFR's founder, had ties to the Rothschild financial empire.

In a free country, we would have no membership requirements in extra-governmental organizations for candidates to be elected to any office. If our Constitution applied, the CFR might nominate an occasional candidate to one party or the other. It is clear that CFR membership is indicative of some greater purpose that has nothing to do with representative government.

Once I understood this history, there was no way I could vote for CFR members. The real task before us is to break the cycle of social engineering being used to control our nation via the media. Without that, candidates who have CFR affiliations and sympathies would have to directly convince the American people to finance globalism at each step instead of assuming that they agree due to prior media manipulation.

There is a good argument that if our troops are in a war, even one we don't approve of, that they should receive the funding necessary for their well-being; equipment, decent food and water, air conditioning or heating, etc.

Obama spoke out very strongly against the war in 2002, naming Perle, Wolfowitz and Rove by name. He understood their game, and he clearly despised them for it.

Ron Paul did not call Obama a fraud, he said because he voted for more war funding, he was not a true anti-war candidate. I disagree, for the reasons above.

But Dr. Paul has always held a purist ideology. I admire him very much, voted for him in the primary, but I do not agree with everything he says. For example Dr. Paul's stated opinions about 9/11.