4um: Obama on Iraq - He supports the Biden-Gelb Plan

Title: Obama on Iraq - He supports the Biden-Gelb Plan
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Published: Mar 26, 2008
Author: Various
Post Date: 2008-03-26 13:57:24 by Jethro Tull
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Views: 2664
Comments: 55

Biden Campaign Welcomes Sen. Obama's Support for Biden-Gelb Plan for Iraq

The presidential campaign of Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., issued the following news release:

Wilmington, DE (August 16, 2007) -- The Biden Campaign today welcomed Sen. Barack Obama's support of the Biden-Gelb Plan for Iraq.

At a town hall meeting in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, Sen. Obama said, "The idea of a partition, of some sort, in Iraq, some sort of federal system that gave the Sunni, the Shia, the Kurds their own autonomy in their regions, is something that's been talked about....I had a long conversation with Les Gelb, who used to be the head of the Council on Foreign Relations, and who advised Biden on this plan. I think it may end up being the best solution [Obama Town Hall Meeting, Cedar Rapids, IA, 7/30/07.]

To view the video of Sen. Obama's statement of support for the Biden-Gelb Plan for Iraq go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ7dSVyP1p4

For well over one year, Sen. Biden has argued that the only way to maintain a unified Iraq is to decentralize it, thereby giving the Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis local control over their daily lives - as provided for in the Iraqi Constitution. Specifically, Section 112 of the Constitution states, "The federal system in the Republic of Iraq is made up of a decentralized capital, regions and governorates, and local administrations" The Constitution gives significant powers to the regions and limits the authority of the central government to truly common concerns like border security and the distribution of oil revenues.

"There is not a single person out there, including all of my democratic opponents, who want our troops to spend another day - another minute - in Iraq. And we're getting out one way or the other. But what do we do when we leave and how we leave makes a big difference. It is going to matter and I have a political plan that gives us a way to leave without leaving chaos behind" said Sen. Biden. "There is absolutely no chance - zero - that the Iraqi people will support a strong central government. It is time for the Democratic Party to unite and get behind the Biden-Gelb plan. And it is time for all of my colleagues to join with myself and Sens. Boxer, Brownback and Nelson in supporting our legislation which would make this plan the policy of our government."

"Sen. Clinton and others continue to cling to the idea that Iraq can come together behind a strong central government. This is just mistaken.", said Sen. Biden. "The Bush Administration has pushed this idea for years and we continue to see this does not work and will only lead to continuing civil war and increasing danger in unstable world. (http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=2354 ) We must answer the question of what happens after we leave Iraq, and in my view, the only real solution is a loosely federated regional system, as called for in the Iraqi constitution. We need to debate this issue of what comes next in Iraq - and we need to do that now."

Sen. Biden also today launched a new series of videos on his website www.headtohead08.com which show some of the latest videos on this topic, including Sens. Clinton, Obama and Governor Richardson.

Biden-Gelb Plan

OK, from what I've read, Obama is buying the Biden-Gelb Plan for Iraq. What it calls for is a partition of Iraq, with separate parts of the country to be carved out for the Sunni, Shia, the Kurds. It’s a political settlement, rather than a militarily one. In any event, it does mention that America’s interests in the region will be maintained (read oil) and a military presence will be maintained there (no mention of the number to remain or the length of their stay). It also doesn’t mention when the completion date of this plan will be or when our troops will begin to come home.

Anyone out there in 4umland read get anything different from this CFR hatched delight? (1 image)

Whether inspired by CFR or not, show me the candidate with a chance of winning w/o ties to CFR.

Only the northern Kurds want to completely withdraw from Iraq and form an independent nation, Kurdistan. They should be allowed to do this, since they were forced by the Allied occupation after the first World War, to become part of Iraq. Most of the present national boundaries around Iraq were arbitrarily created by the Allies without any consideration or understanding of the ethnic, tribal, religious or sectarian groups.

In 1923, Turkey was recognized as an independent nation according to the Treaty of Lausanne. This treaty divided the Kurdish region among Turkey, Iraq and Iran.

The Kurds have consistently sought independence. After the Persian Gulf War in 1991, the U.S. encouraged the Kurds to rise up against Saddam Hussein and establish independence. However when the Kurds did start a rebellion, the U.S. and U.N. did nothing to assist them, as they had promised.

This resulted in the Iraqi Army killing thousands of Kurds. The U.S. then blamed Hussein for the killings, even though the U.S. was primarily responsible for instigating the uprising. The U.S. abandoned the Kurds in their struggle for independence and then blamed Hussein for crushing the insurgency. The U.S. also condemned Hussein for using poison gas against the Kurds during the rebellion.

The U.S. failed to note that it was the U.S. and U.K. that had given Hussein the poison gas during the Iraq-Iran war. Apparently the U.S. approved of Hussein using the poison gas against the Iranians but disapproved of him using it against the Kurds. What´s the difference? (The U.S. still has huge stockpiles of poison gas and lethal chemicals that have not yet been destroyed. The U.S. has more WMD than any nation on Earth.)

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

The way to get our troops out of Iraq in an orderly way is to strike a deal with Iran. Of the three candidates left standing, Obama is the only one who calls for negotiating with Iran.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

I didn't realize that, and of course, Iran could be a huge help. They live next door, they have offered to help and they have good reason to want peace in the area.

The truth is that responsible Southerners have deliberately weakened their own defense because of their unwillingness to raise the underlying problem. They talk of states’ rights when they should be talking anthropology, and they do so out of instinctive human kindness. There is a point at which kindness imposed upon ceases to be a virtue.

The Kurdish language belongs to the Iranian family of languages, and is thus related to Farsi. It is more distantly related to the Indic branch of the Indo-Iranian family, thus to the languages of India descended from Sanskrit. It is ultimately Indo-European, thus related to most of the languages of Europe, including English.

Hebrew is of course a Semitic language, thus related to Arabic, but not related to the Indo-European languages.

The Kurds seem to be the same people that Xenophon writes about traveling through the country of, in his Anabasis [The March Up Country]. That's about 400 B.C.

Ah,,,,,,yeah, they do, but that isn't the argument. The argument is, now that Obama has bought into this Plan, when will it be consummated, and more specifically, when will the American military no longer be in Iraq as occupiers?

It's not symmetric. If A is the closest relative to B it does not follow B is the closest relative to A.

I have no idea if it's part of the Biden-Gelb plan. I only know that Obama supports it (and has come into a lot of criticism from neocons and Zionist types for saying so.)

Too stupid to come up with his own plan..has to sign on to someone else's and then call it "his policy to deal with Iraq." Why are we supporting the lesser (false) of 3 ~~evils~~ lawyers? Why are people defending ANY of these whack jobs? No former RP supporter can possibly be for any of the three of them, including Obama, unless they never supported RP to begin with. I'm nauseated over all of these articles and post defending Obama, or any of the others. The filtering and purges have begun...to protect my sanity.

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." © IndieTx

I think the NeoCons and Zionists are enjoying the status quo (all the way to the bank).

Has it occurred to you that somebody who just posts mockery and ridicule is himself a fit object of ridicule?

You know, if you're just going to mock and ridicule, there is absolutely no point in my reading your postings.

Has it occurred to YOU that a spineless Liberal jellyfish such as yourself can suck some nuts?

I swear, some of these airheads are bowing to Mecca five times a day and running around in drag on these forums...

And the solution for America is to give the SW to Mexico, the solution for Israel is to give it to the Mohammedans, etc...

Carve it up and create a new Middle East Organization of sovereign-less states...f*_cking World Communist idjits.

These same idjits very likely supported bombing the (Christian) Serbs for the (Mohammedan drug running, human trafficking-terrorist Albanians) KLA...

Well, it isn't in the Plan, and Obama isn't going to incorporate it, or he wouldn't bothered to sign on to what is established. So, again, the man you're supporting has no time line on when he'd leave Iraq and, in fact, will leave in perpetuity, a American military presence to protect the oil we've stolen. Great choice.

Oh, that article is dated Nov. 2, 2007, which makes it more recent than the other one from August.

To call for diplomacy with Iran and to sign on to a detailed foreign policy plan that keeps our military in Iraq for an uncertain time aren't even remotely the same thing.

If we negotiated seriously with Iran, do you imagine a settlement for Iraq would not be one of the biggest items on the agenda?

The Biden-Gelb plan was originally an Israeli plan. I remember reading a reprint of an article published in Israel in 1982 by an Israeli journalist. His plan was for was aginst Iraq to be followed by a partition so that no strong Muslim state could oppose Israel.

The alternative to negotiating with Iran is WW III which I continue to believe will be launched this year around the time of the Summer Olympics. Below is the scenario for WW III I posted here soon after the USS Cole was stationed off the coast of Lebanon.

Phase I will be war agsinst Lebanon and the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. This will deplete the Palestinians of their rockets and allow Israel to push back the resistance from their borders.

Phase II will be a propaganda period during the occupation which is designed to convince the Israeli and American opinion that Iran and Syria are responsible for the horrors of the occupation.

Phase III is the Israeli air attack against the Iranian nuclear facilities using American supplied bunker buster bombs. The Iranians have said they will respond by firing 11,000 missiles and artillery shells in the first 60 seconds. The Iranians have Russian made Sunburn and Yakhonts anti-ship missiles. They also have Chinese designed rocket artillery with a range up to 150 kilometers.

Phase 4 is the justification of World War III to the American public. We have 17,500 sailors and marines on aircraft carrier task forces in the Persian Gulf. Their ships are well within range of the Sunburn and Yakhonts, 120 and 180 miles. If they wanted to protect the lives of those sailors and marines, they would put them in the Indian Ocean out of harms way when Israel attacks Iran. They are in the Gulf precisely so they can be sacrificed for the greater good of Israel. The goal of WW III is to exterminate the Muslims so Israel and the Bilderbergers can have all of the Mideast oil.

Good Plan? The U.S. Central Command has American troops stationed in 27 nations of which 25 are Muslim. One rogue Muslim artillery officer can fire on an American base and in one minute render the base and its jets unusable. Our soldiers would be cut off from all supplies and air cover. They would be lucky if they were not killed or captured.

The final phase or aftermath of WW III is the destruction of the United States so what remanins can be folded into the North American Union. The Iranian response to the Israeli air strike will include the cut off of all oil from the Persian Gulf that should raise the price of oil to $300 or $400 a barrel. That would bankrupt more than 50% of all American families as they would have no means of buying gas to get to work. The destruction of the dollar will make food unaffordable to half of our population too."

I remember telling people in 1982 that David Rockefeller was planning World War III and that his plan requires America to lose.

OTOH, I have posted numerous links and copied pieces from them in attempt to give FOH some facts.

Think Balkans...Korea...East/West Germany...Timor. EMPIRE is not easy, neither is selling it to the sheeple.

Iraq is an independent country and has already begun to reduce tensions w/Iran; Ahmadinejad was there two weeks ago. The case to extract our military from Iraq - the plan Barack signed on to - is to subdivide Iraq into three separate areas. Again, there is no estimate on how long this will take so all the hoopla about him bringing the troops home is nonsense since we have no time line.

I've put FOH on Bozo, precisely because I have learned not to expect facts from him, and because he openly proclaimed he was going to mock and ridicule people. That I can do without, and, if enough people do without it, his whole purpose will be defeated.

There's no other war required to accomplish the end game finalizing the implementation of the NAU.

Just allow the worthless Federal Reserve Notes do their job, we're almost there...crisis without a shot fired, NAU without anyone caring.

BTW, you are an extraordinarily large puss bag, but you knew that already...that's why you derive some sense of power from being a big government stooge.