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(s)Elections
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Title: March of the Obamacons
Source: http://www.takimag.com/
URL Source: http://www.takimag.com/blogs/article/morning_links1/
Published: Mar 31, 2008
Author: Justin Raimondo
Post Date: 2008-03-31 15:04:14 by robin
Ping List: *Justin Raimondo*     Subscribe to *Justin Raimondo*
Keywords: None
Views: 2215
Comments: 170

March of the Obamacons—The New York Sun notes that the “surge” is working ... that is, the surge of support for Obama among antiwar Republicans. Lincoln Chafee, Douglas Kmiec, Susan Eisenhower, and, perhaps, Senator Chuck Hagel. As the Sun notes: “Asked yesterday on CNN whether he would endorse his party’s presumptive nominee, Mr. Hagel said he would base his support on the candidates’ positions on withdrawing from Iraq.” While neocon hacks of the Rush Limbaugh variety are calling out the thinning ranks of the GOP troops to switch parties for a day and support Hillary, antiwar Republicans are switching and supporting Obama all without prompting from anyone, and the numbers are impressive in Pennsylvania, where the upcoming Democratic primary is going to be decisive. As the Sun reports:

“Of the 140,000 Pennsylvania Republicans and independents who switched registration in the last year to Democrat, the majority are Obama voters, the director of the Franklin and Marshall College poll, G. Terry Madonna, said. Registration for the state’s closed April 22 primary ended March 24. ‘If 2 million people vote in Pennsylvania, which would be a huge number, I think Obama gets 85,000 to 90,000 switchers,’ Mr. Madonna said. ‘That’s 3 or 4 or 5%, which is a big deal.’”

The Ron Paul Republicans are making a difference, albeit, at this point, a purely negative one. Here’s a nice touch from the Sun piece:

“Another Pennsylvania Republican who supports Mr. Obama is retired Major General Walter Stewart, a township supervisor in Burks County who says he has given money both to an anti-Bush Texas Republican, Rep. Ron Paul, and Mr. Hagel, who he said was his first choice for president this election season.

“General Stewart said he was supporting Mr. Obama because he could not endorse a candidate who voted to authorize the war in Iraq, which he compared to King George’s decision to send the British army and Hessian mercenaries into New York Harbor in the Revolutionary War. In 2004, General Stewart said, he supported Mr. Kerry, the Democratic nominee, over Mr. Bush. ‘I think there is a general feeling in the military that this war in Iraq has been a catastrophe,’ he said.”

Gen. Stewart, meet Andy Bacevich ....

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#105. To: christine (#102)

if obama is the selection, then the PTB have in mind for him to do something (that clinton or mcCain couldn't) to advance their anti-america(n) plan.

I totally agree! North American Soviet Union...here we come.

Live Free or Die (or, run away)


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-03-31   18:00:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: Cynicom (#103)

They ran because they feared the Patriots would hang 'em.

They still kiss the Queen's a** to this day...


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-03-31   18:01:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: ghostdogtxn (#36)

and who dropped some live bombs on the deck of the USS Forestall that killed over 160 of his fellow sailors. That's not fair to McCain. He didn't "drop bombs" on the deck; he performed an illegal flare up of his engine and ignited the bombs on other airplanes. Fortunately, he was able to run away to safety while the rest of the Forrestal's crew battled the fire and lost their lives being recklessly heroic. I'm glad McCain had the good sense not to be a hero.

I stand corrected, I should have re-read the USS Forestall article before making my comment. Needless to say McCain is/was reckless, criminally reckless, whether it involved bombs or illegal flare up of his jet engine is of small matter. The end result is the same, 160 dead sailors. The SOB should have faced a general court-martial.

Talk about fairness. Among McCain's first acts after the "Dinks" let him go and he came home to America was to divorce his wife, a woman who stood faithfully by his side during his five years as a POW.

Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.

Zoroaster  posted on  2008-03-31   18:10:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: Zoroaster (#107)

Among McCain's first acts after the "Dinks" let him go and he came home to America was to divorce his wife, a woman who stood faithfully by his side during his five years as a POW.

That's the tip of that smelly ice berg..."SONGBIRD" is a schmuck's-schmuck.


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-03-31   18:15:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: Cynicom (#103)

You think we wouldn't join you if it came to that? Just b/c we want the lesser of 3 evils?

This is a delaying tactic, to hopefully (yes it's a gamble) gain time to alert more sheeple.

There is no gamble with McCain or Hillary - they are proven quantities.

Voting 3rd party is a nice statement, for what's worth, but it's not like that's all there is to be done.

I spoke with a guy from the 9/11 LA group; he doesn't even care what's going on with the voting right now. He's focused just on getting info on 9/11 out and all the knowledge about New World Order that goes with it.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-31   18:25:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: Cynicom (#103)

Of course after the Revolution, a lot of the nay sayers ran off to Canada to hide.

Whereas you guys don't even care enough about liberties, habeas corpus, aggressive war, and all the tyrannical acts of the Bush regime to have said anything on my Bob Barr thread.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-03-31   18:57:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: Jethro Tull (#79)

so why in the world should we take it seriously?

You're a cop, and you don't take the rule of law seriously?

What is wrong with this picture?

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-03-31   18:58:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: aristeides (#111)

What is wrong with this picture?

Nothing. Jethro faces reality and too many lawyers live in a make believe world of their own making, one that does not exist.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-31   18:59:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: robin (#109)

I don't think I'd want to join a revolution led by fascists.

I'm willing to form alliances of necessity, so I might be willing to join one that has fascists (or Communists, for that matter) taking part, but I would have to think more than twice about it.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-03-31   18:59:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: aristeides (#113)

He referred to the American Revolution, so that's what I was referring to also.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-31   19:01:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#115. To: Cynicom (#112)

So you too admit that you do not believe in the rule of law.

But not only that, you're unwilling to believe that other people might believe in it. So much so that you ascribe to them motives that really are make believe and really are of your own making, like "white guilt."

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-03-31   19:01:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: robin (#114)

Robin, peas in a pod????

Democrat CFR Candidates:

Barack Obama

Hillary Clinton

John Edwards

Chris Dodd

Bill Richardson

Republican CFR Candidates:

Mitt Romney

Rudy Giuliani

John McCain

Fred Thompson

Newt Gingrich

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-31   19:05:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: Cynicom (#116)

I notice Obama is not on your list, whereas Hillary and McCain are.

Nevertheless, you proclaim your intention is to pull the lever for Hillary in the primary, with the intent of helping to defeat Obama.

I guess you don't care who's in the CFR and who is not.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-03-31   19:07:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: Cynicom (#116)

If there is a slight difference that leans toward peace, I'll take it to avoid McCain and his end of the world scenario.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-31   19:08:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#119. To: robin (#118)

, I'll take it to avoid McCain and his end of the world scenario.

McCain is a mad man waiting to get his fingers on the nuclear trigger.

Therefore I can understand you and others "accepting" Clinton/Obama.

People such as myself voting for lesser of evils are the reason we are where we are now.

I voted Perot as did 20 million Americans, the partisans voted the usual, so in my book they are more to blame than myself. Had more of them been Americans, we would never have had Clintons and Bush and certainly not madman McKooK.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-31   19:15:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#120. To: robin (#109)

You may have Christine fooled all this time, but that's about it...


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-03-31   19:16:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: Zoroaster, aristeides, ghostdogtxn (#95)

I'm writing in Ron Paul. - ghostdogtxn

I'm not even sure I'm going to vote for Obama. - aristeides

I'm uncertain whether or not I'll vote for Obama. - Zoroaster

I may be mistaken, but my recollection is that each of you, at one time or another, has stated that Obama is the best candidate that has a chance to be on the ticket.

What gives?

What kind of vote is one that just enables you to say in future, if things go worse, "Well, don't blame me ... I voted for Paul, Buchanan, Perot, the Constitution Party, the Libertarian Party."

How silly. What kind of comfort is that? What kind of logic is that? What does it do but effectively opt you out of participation in the process?

Worst of all your opting out can help assure the election of one which you fear or despise.

Stop the world, I wanna get off.

I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party

iconoclast  posted on  2008-03-31   19:17:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#122. To: Cynicom (#119)

The best thing that can happen at this point is to keep awakening those willing to follow truth, suppress turnout for the CFR candidates and fight every North American Unioner we come across...IMO.

However, it appears that one NAUer or the other will get a landslide and claim a mandate for their evil...


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-03-31   19:18:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: Cynicom (#119)

Had more of them been Americans, we would never have had Clintons and Bush and certainly not madman McKooK.

I understand your feelings/opinions on this vote. Hey, I remember someone berating me for not having voted for Anderson.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-31   19:19:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#124. To: iconoclast (#121)

All of your spineless World Commie buddies abandoning ship there Traitorbot?


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-03-31   19:19:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#125. To: iconoclast (#121) (Edited)

Worst of all your opting out can help assure the election of one which you fear or despise.

If you 'fear' one of the CFR quislings, you should 'fear' all 3.

But then you aren't intellectually honest, you're a traitor-shill.

You're such a fraud, a complete joke and LOSER if you will...


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-03-31   19:21:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#126. To: iconoclast (#121)

I'm not sure either, whether I'll vote for Obama in Nov. It's only 3/31; anything could happen. I know I won't vote for McCain or Hillary.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-31   19:21:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#127. To: robin (#126)

What will you do with a Clinton/Obama ticket?

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-31   19:23:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#128. To: FOH (#124)

All of your spineless World Commie buddies abandoning ship there Traitorbot?

When facts and logic fail you, act like a nine year old and call the other guy names. I assume you came here from LP or FR?

.

...  posted on  2008-03-31   19:24:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#129. To: Cynicom (#127)

Hope that Bob Barr runs? I don't know, it may not happen.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-31   19:26:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#130. To: Cynicom (#127)

HEHEHEHEH


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-03-31   19:26:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#131. To: ... (#128)

Names??? check back aways on sodie Pop.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-31   19:27:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#132. To: robin (#129)

I would be glad to vote Barr, other than that so far, Paul write in.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-31   19:28:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#133. To: iconoclast (#121)

I live in Maryland. The Democrat is certain to win Maryland.

That means I can afford the luxury of voting third-party, if that's what I decide to do in the end.

I haven't made up my mind. I am certainly favorable to Obama. I prefer Bob Barr's stands on the issues, but he has no chance of winning, and he might not even run.

But my reason for mentioning Bob Barr on this thread is to point out how uninterested many of the people posting here are about issues like war and civil liberties. They claim to be skeptical about Obama's sincerity on these issues. But they don't even bother to post on a thread about Barr, whose sincerity on these matters is beyond doubt. And notice that they don't express approval of him now on this thread either.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-03-31   19:29:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: aristeides, iconoclast (#133)

That means I can afford the luxury of voting third-party,

That's how I was able to vote Constitution Party in '04; CA was strong for Kerry.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-31   19:31:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#135. To: aristeides (#133)

Bob Barr of the American Communist Lawyers' Union?

THAT Bob Barr?


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-03-31   19:32:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#136. To: aristeides (#133)

Aw, sheet.

I should have known.

You're a card carrying Communist ACLU Member, too...LOLOL


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-03-31   19:32:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#137. To: robin (#92)

we won't survive a McCain Regime.

We already have. McCain, Bush, Obama, Hillary ect... all get their marching orders from the same people. Picking one puppet over another is the game they want you to play. Vote for yourself before voting for these goons so you can at least feel better about not being part of the problem. I am voting for Mel Gibson. He has proven he is not owned by them.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-03-31   19:33:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#138. To: aristeides (#133) (Edited)

But my reason for mentioning Bob Barr on this thread is to point out how uninterested many of the people posting here are about issues like war and civil liberties.

that's not the reason, ari. we're not interested at this point because it's mere speculation and talk. since Ron Paul, our best hope, declined a third party run stating that in the current system, it's futile, i'm certainly not going to get excited about a bob barr.

christine  posted on  2008-03-31   19:58:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#139. To: robin (#126)

I'm not sure either, whether I'll vote for Obama in Nov. It's only 3/31;

Et tu robin ... what the hell's goin on ... full moon tonight?

anything could happen.

Yeah, but my death is probably a lot more probable than any pipe dream you may be holding onto.

I know I won't vote for McCain or Hillary.

Now there's a courageous statement.

I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party

iconoclast  posted on  2008-03-31   20:01:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#140. To: RickyJ (#137)

We already have. McCain, Bush, Obama, Hillary ect... all get their marching orders from the same people. Picking one puppet over another is the game they want you to play.

really. that's the disconnect i have. why is it that people can't see it's a rigged game? until and unless all of us refuse to partake by accepting and ENDORSING their selections, nothing will change.

christine  posted on  2008-03-31   20:02:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#141. To: iconoclast, FOH, robin, christine, Jethro Tull (#139)

I believe in miracles

Your hopes and dreams with Obama in 2009...

buckeye  posted on  2008-03-31   20:05:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#142. To: iconoclast (#139)

It's not like he's my first choice.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-03-31   20:09:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#143. To: aristeides (#133)

That means I can afford the luxury of voting third-party

I wonder how many used that logic in 2000 when Gore won the popular vote, thus bringing about the subsequent imbroglio, and the fueling of the fires of those that wish to change our nation from a republic to a democracy?

I prefer Bob Barr's stands on the issues

I like Bob Barr, always have ... but with respect to the race, Jesse Owens he ain't.

I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party

iconoclast  posted on  2008-03-31   20:11:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#144. To: robin (#134)

see 143

I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party

iconoclast  posted on  2008-03-31   20:15:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#145. To: buckeye (#141)

Perfect.

Some are under strong delusion, maybe waking up.

Others are doing this with their eyes wide open...either way, watch your step.


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-03-31   20:18:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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