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(s)Elections
See other (s)Elections Articles

Title: Obama Would Consider Gore for Major Post
Source: AP
URL Source: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8VPS88O2&show_article=1
Published: Apr 2, 2008
Author: DEVLIN BARRETT
Post Date: 2008-04-02 13:57:38 by Jethro Tull
Keywords: None
Views: 1591
Comments: 109

WALLINGFORD, Pa. (AP) - Democrat Barack Obama says as president he would consider putting Al Gore in a Cabinet-level position—or higher. A woman at a town hall asked the Illinois senator if elected president would he consider tapping the former vice president for his Cabinet, or an even higher level office, to address global warming.

"I would," Obama said. "Not only will I, but I will make a commitment that Al Gore will be at the table and play a central part in us figuring out how we solve this problem. He's somebody I talk to on a regular basis. I'm already consulting with him in terms of these issues but climate change is real."

-Snip


Poster Comment:

Armand Hammer, Occidental Petroleum, and the Gore Family

 

* Lenin presented an inscribed portrait to "Comrade Armand Hammer" in 1921, The inscription has Lenin in parentheses & Ulanioff, his birth name.

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#1. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

A woman at a town hall asked the Illinois senator if elected president would he consider tapping the former vice president for his Cabinet, or an even higher level office, to address global warming.

"I would," Obama said. "Not only will I, but I will make a commitment that Al Gore will be at the table and play a central part in us figuring out how we solve this problem. He's somebody I talk to on a regular basis. I'm already consulting with him in terms of these issues but climate change is real."

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-02   14:01:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

Sheesh

Freaking World Communists...


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-04-02   14:02:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: robin (#1)

I forgot, is this a period of Global Cooling...or Global Warming?


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-04-02   14:02:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: robin (#1)

We agree Gore shouldn't be anywhere near government, right?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-02   14:05:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: FOH (#3)

I forgot, is this a period of Global Cooling...or Global Warming?

I'm thinking more the End Times.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-02   14:07:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Jethro Tull (#4)

From the pool of people who remain as likely government officials, Gore isn't half bad.

From a pure idealogical standpoint, no, Gore is not a good choice.

Do you think if Gore had won we would have invaded Iraq? That there would have been a 9/11? That the NeoCons and ZioNazis would be in control of our foreign and domestic policies? That our economy would be the disaster it is now?

I doubt all these things would be true. We still would have empowered Red China, the PRC still might be scanning our containers in our own ports. A company from Dubai would still be in control of our ports. I can believe that would be the same.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-02   14:09:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

Gag.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   14:09:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: robin (#1)

We have a duty as Americans to defend our citizens' right not only to life but also to liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is therefore vital in our current circumstances that immediate steps be taken to safeguard our Constitution against the present danger posed by the intrusive overreaching on the part of the Executive Branch and the President's apparent belief that he need not live under the rule of law.

I endorse the words of Bob Barr, when he said, "The President has dared the American people to do something about it. For the sake of the Constitution, I hope they will."

Al Gore "Constitution In Grave Danger" (speech of Jan. 16, 2006 in Constitution Hall).

It's not just global warming that Al Gore takes seriously, he also takes constitutional issues seriously.

(By the way, Al Gore was supposed to be introduced for that speech by Bob Barr, who shared and shares his constitutional concerns. Some suspicious "technical difficulties" prevented the transmission of Bob Barr's remarks to Constitution Hall that day.)

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-02   14:10:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Jethro Tull (#5)

I'm thinking more the End Times.

Yeah.


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-04-02   14:14:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: aristeides (#8)

LOLOL


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-04-02   14:16:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: robin (#6)

Yeah, right.

Watch vid at #10...


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-04-02   14:17:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: robin (#6)

From the pool of people who remain as likely government officials, Gore isn't half bad.

From a pure idealogical standpoint, no, Gore is not a good choice.

So your answer is a yes, no?

And yes, had Gore won nothing would have changed. The man is tethered to Armand Hammer for goodness sake. That alone should nullify him as a candidate except as a customer at the nearest gulag.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-02   14:17:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: aristeides (#8)

(By the way, Al Gore was supposed to be introduced for that speech by Bob Barr, who shared and shares his constitutional concerns. Some suspicious "technical difficulties" prevented the transmission of Bob Barr's remarks to Constitution Hall that day.)

interesting

Now that Obama has said he speaks with Gore often, I expect we'll see a lot of Gore bashing in the coming days.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-02   14:25:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: robin (#13)

I expect we'll see a lot of Gore bashing in the coming days.

I hope so. It's so easy to bash that lying World Communist it's really not even sporting...he must've had to flip a coin "Globalist Neocon or Neocommie?" at one point.


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-04-02   14:30:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: robin (#13)

Now that Obama has said he speaks with Gore often, I expect we'll see a lot of Gore bashing in the coming days.

Gore bashing? You act as if he deserves respect. He, his father, and the political wing of the National Party he clings to deserve disdain. And, btw, I'm thinking once upon a time, sometime before you took a political left hand turn, you had his ilk figured out accurately. Am I right, or was that a different robin?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-02   14:32:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Jethro Tull (#15)

As I said in my first post, among the pool that are likely to end up with an official govt position.

I like reality, however unpleasant it may be.

If there is only 2% difference that's better than 0%. It's not like there is a good, viable alternative. Is it a gamble? Yes. But it is a CERTAINTY that McCain will destroy whatever remains of this nation once Bush/Cheney finally slither out.

We don't have time to bicker about left and right. This is about our nation's survival. Yes, Obama and Gore are left of center. Horrors, they might give you the oppty to have single-payer health care.

But more importantly, they have more respect for the Constitution than Bush, Hillary or McCain and they don't like a certain war in the ME.

That you have no respect for them is your free choice.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-02   14:38:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: robin (#13)

Like all Americans I have been wrestling with the question of what our country needs to do to defend itself from the kind of intense, focused and enabled hatred that brought about September 11th, and which at this moment must be presumed to be gathering force for yet another attack. I'm speaking today in an effort to recommend a specific course of action for our country which I believe would be preferable to the course recommended by President Bush. Specifically, I am deeply concerned that the policy we are presently following with respect to Iraq has the potential to seriously damage our ability to win the war against terrorism and to weaken our ability to lead the world in this new century.

Opening paragraph of Gore's speech opposing war with Iraq, delivered Sept. 23, 2002.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-02   14:41:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

Obama Would Consider Gore for Major Post

The worst thing I've heard come out of Obama's mouth.

We've had more than enough C- intellects in positions of authority (read Bush and McCain). Gore may easily be the dumbest of the three. He is a walking manifestation of the Peter Principle ... along with being one more example of "legacy" rule in our increasingly class-divided society.

OTOH, if his body is as dense and wooden as his head, he may well be a solid prospect for a post (read fence).

I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-02   14:44:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

The Tree would make an excellent Post.

Lod  posted on  2008-04-02   14:44:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: iconoclast (#18)

Mental telepathy bump

Lod  posted on  2008-04-02   14:46:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Jethro Tull (#12)

Algore Jr., top tier CFR:

www.apfn.org/apfn/cfr- members.htm


"In the economic-technological field, some international cooperation has already been achieved, but further progress will require greater American sacrifices. More intensive efforts to shape a new world monetary structure will have to be undertaken, with some consequent risk to the present relatively favorable American position." --Zbigniew Brzezinski, CFR member and founding member of the Trilateral Commission, and National Security Advisor to five presidents

"The technotronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and maintain up-to-date complete files containing even the most personal information about the citizen. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the authorities." --Zbigniew Brzezinski


Tennessee's globalist connections

The core values of the average voter in Tennessee are very conservative. This fact has produced Democrats that voted overwhelmingly for Ronald Reagan. But, out of misguided local loyalty, the conservative voters in Tennessee have also repeatedly elected homegrown globalists. Among them are prominent United States Sens. Howard Baker, Bill Frist, Lamar Alexander, and – yes – Fred Thompson.

All four of those Republican senators from Tennessee were members of the globalist Council on Foreign Relations during their tenure in the United States Senate. (And, a Democratic senator from Tennessee – Al Gore, who became vice- president – was also a CFR member.) Baker, who mentored Thompson into politics in 1972, was part of the "Panama Canal giveaway team" during the administration of President Jimmy Carter – another CFR member. (Note that the linked CNN commentary was written by Robert A. Pastor, another CFR globalist. Pastor recently wrote a column for WorldNetDaily, claiming to distance his North American Community plan from an assault upon American sovereignty.

The "lamestream" news media treats the CFR as merely some advisory think tank. But, the Council on Foreign Relations is much more than that. Going back almost a hundred years, the CFR mission is to establish a one-world government. Because of our historic role as a beacon of freedom, the United States is an obstacle to global domination. Therefore, CFR members must work – some openly, and some secretly – to steadily undermine American sovereignty. The recent news about the North American Union is only one phase of an unrelenting effort toward global government. To solidify elitist power, that effort includes a concurrent effort toward global currency. That effort toward a one-world money system is, in turn, linked to an effort to use RFID chips in commerce and marketing. Many people believe that the use of such chips is the "Mark of the Beast," as predicted in the Holy Bible. (And, the president of the company that makes the chips is another Republican CFR member, presidential candidate Tommy Thompson. (Is anyone surprised?)

[snip] Baker helped to give away the Panama Canal. Gore's committee on aviation security eschewed probable terrorist connections to the downing of TWA Flight 800. Thompson voted to expand NAFTA, and to relax limits on migrant farm workers. Frist (as majority leader) refused to push a tough border-security bill through the Senate, even though H.R. 4437 – the "Wall Bill" – had passed in the House overwhelmingly. [snip] [snip] http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55776


September 29, 2007 Surprise! CFR Behind Gore’s Global Warming Movie Scam

http://rattube.com/blog1/2007/09/29/surprise-cfr-behind-gores-global-warming- movie-scam/

Rat Says: Nothing new here for my little rats, but for those new to RatTube, global warming is a scam set up to implement a global carbon tax. Like Rockefeller needs more money, it is all about power and crushing the world’s poor and middle classes. Nothing but slavery for the masses is acceptable to those that consider themselves the Elite.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   14:46:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: aristeides (#17)

How is it possible that Gore and Obama both spoke against a war in Iraq in 2002? They're both liberals. They didn't really mean it. I'm sure they both have given a speech at CFR. They both are just NWO puppets, it's obvious. Not a dime's worth of difference between any of them. No point in voting for any of them. Let's just sit around and bash Obama. And then we'll bash Gore when we get tired of smearing Obama.

Meanwhile, back in at the ranch in AZ, McCain gains momentum to insure 100 years of wars in the ME.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-02   14:47:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Jethro Tull (#15) (Edited)

National *Globalist Party?

*Globalist = "Capitalist-Commie-Fascist"


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-04-02   14:47:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: iconoclast (#18)

Gore's speech on constitutional issues that I linked to in #8 did not strike me as the speech of a stupid man when I heard it.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-02   14:47:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: robin (#16)

Unbelievable according to everything I know and have heard about you, robin...


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-04-02   14:49:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: iconoclast (#18)

Heretic!!


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-04-02   14:50:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Peppa (#21)

The Lieberals/Globalists love the Establishment...


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-04-02   14:51:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: robin (#22)

S

U

C

K

E

R

!!


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-04-02   14:51:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

A Commentary on the War Against Terror: Our Larger Tasks Author: Al Gore

February 12, 2002 Council on Foreign Relations

www.cfr.org/publication.html?id=4343 [snip] "As important as identifying Iraq, Iran and North Korea for what they are, we must be equally bold in identifying other evils that confront us. For there is another Axis of Evil in the world: poverty and ignorance; disease and environmental disorder; corruption and political oppression. We may well put down terror in its present manifestations. But if we do not attend to the larger fundamentals as well, then the ground is fertile and has been seeded for the next generation of those born to hate us, who will hold these things up before the world's poor and dispossessed, and say that all these things are in our image, and rekindle the war we are now hoping to snuff out. “Draining the swamp” of terrorism must of course in the first instance mean destroying the ability of terrorist networks to function. But drying it up at its source must also mean draining the aquifer of anger that underlies terrorism: anger that enflames the hearts of so many young men, and makes them willing, dedicated recruits for terror. Anger at perceived historical injustices involving a mass-memory throughout the Islamic world of past glory and more recent centuries of decline and oppression at the hands of the West. " [snip]

Bombing them into prosperity and good govenors of the earth. Presidential logic. I guess he didn't read the CFR reports on the ME before he opened his yap.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   14:54:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Peppa (#29)

Too easy.

I wonder why so many supposed Conservative-Constitutionists that supported Ron Paul buy into the Globalist-Commie-Fascists' schtick?

Maybe they want the Nanny State...


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-04-02   14:56:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: lodwick (#20)

Mental telepathy bump

A little spooky! ;-)

I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-02   14:58:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: FOH (#27)

The Lieberals/Globalists love the Establishment...

Rabid defenders of the hate machines. They know better but do it anyway.

(everybody sing!)

You got to walk, that lonesome valley,
You got to walk it by yourself
Oh, nobody else, can walk it for you,
You got to walk it by yourself.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   14:59:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: FOH (#30)

Maybe they want the Nanny State...

Who knows. Control over others. They're wired different.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   15:00:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: aristeides (#24)

Gore's speech on constitutional issues that I linked to in #8 did not strike me as the speech of a stupid man when I heard it.

Oh, I'm confident the speech writer had him by at least 50 IQ points.

I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-02   15:01:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: iconoclast (#34)

It says something for someone if he can choose good speech writers.

Compare Bush. Compare McCain.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-02   15:03:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Peppa (#33)

They're wired different.

I guess I am. I'm wired to want an end to the aggressive wars and violations of civil liberties of the Bush regime.

You folks seem wired to have different priorities.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-02   15:04:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: aristeides (#35)

It says something for someone if he can choose good speech writers.

Compare Bush. Compare McCain.

You have a point, but it's pretty faint praise.

I already did compare them in a previous post and in another context.

I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-02   15:08:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Peppa (#32)

Some 50 years of "Sex, Drugs and Rock'N'Roll" didn't seem to help the "Republic"...that's going to draw some boos and hisses I'm sure. heheh


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-04-02   15:08:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: aristeides (#36)

Sounds good, but you're a dyed in the wool Lieberal supporting the World Commies...so you don't pass even the long distance smell test.


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-04-02   15:09:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: aristeides (#36)

To: Peppa

They're wired different. I guess I am. I'm wired to want an end to the aggressive wars and violations of civil liberties of the Bush regime.

You folks seem wired to have different priorities.

Sorry, you support a candidate that has not voted according to your values. Period.

That you continue to stick a fork in your own eye isn't my fault, but unfortunately, becomes everyones problem. Frankly, I consider it cowardly. Maybe you just want to BELIEVE. Well believe this, the more power you give to government over you, the more they will take. And who are you to condemn us all for your weakness?

My folks? Ah, you mean freedom loving Americans? Yes, we do have different priorities than you. You need a government teat and a sick need to control everyone else.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   15:13:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: FOH (#38) (Edited)

Some 50 years of "Sex, Drugs and Rock'N'Roll" didn't seem to help the "Republic"...that's going to draw some boos and hisses I'm sure. heheh

That the drugs are used to destroy the mind and potential is evil. Whether they are legal or illegal. However, I basically subscribe to the belief that a person has the right to do what he wants to himself, as long as he does not hurt others or nature.

I guess I'm somewhere in the Libertine corner on such issues.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   15:18:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Peppa (#40) (Edited)

WELL said!

The self-involved elites suffer from diverse spiritual and mental issues IMO...a prevailing darkness if you will.

That's fine as long as they take it somewhere else (as in out of my face) and quit using government to sanction it...

"Liberty is never given, it is always taken"


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-04-02   15:18:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Peppa (#40)

You must be confusing me with someone else. As I have said repeatedly, what I want is an end to the Bush regime's wars of aggression and violations of civil liberties. What is cowardly about that?

I think the cowardly people are the ones who want -- or at least are willing -- to see those atrocities continue, just so that they can feel safe.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-02   15:19:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: aristeides (#36)

You folks seem wired to have different priorities.

And how ... with head slowly shaking.

I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-02   15:20:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Peppa (#41) (Edited)

I agree, live and let live. I'm a libertarian in many if not most ways.

'Cept that's not what they do...(live and let live)


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-04-02   15:20:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: aristeides (#36)

I'm wired to want an end to the aggressive wars and violations of civil liberties of the Bush regime.

You folks seem wired to have different priorities.

Anyone who wants McCain, a continuation of the Bush Regime, would be very busy on boards bashing and smearing any opponent of McCain and his 100 years of wars in the ME.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-02   15:24:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Peppa (#41)

That the drugs are used to destroy the mind and potential is evil. Whether they are legal or illegal. However, I basically subscribe to the belief that a person has the right to do what he want's to himself, as long as he does not hurt others or nature.

May the bird of paradise shit a crack house in your back yard.

Ever had an addict in your family?

And, please don't bring up the sorry "War on Drugs".

I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-02   15:24:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: robin (#46)

Anyone who wants McCain, a continuation of the Bush Regime, would be very busy on boards bashing and smearing any opponent of McCain and his 100 years of wars in the ME.

You're the one supporting McHillObama, robin.

You fraud.


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-04-02   15:27:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Peppa (#41)

I guess I'm somewhere in the Libertine corner on such issues.

Thats' quite a confession, Hon .... I don't believe it. :-)

I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-02   15:29:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: aristeides (#43) (Edited)

You must be confusing me with someone else. As I have said repeatedly, what I want is an end to the Bush regime's wars of aggression and violations of civil liberties. What is cowardly about that?

I think the cowardly people are the ones who want -- or at least are willing -- to see those atrocities continue, just so that they can feel safe.

You want to believe that Obama is different on the war and he isn't. His advisors want bigger wars, globalism and further suspension of civil liberties. Why you refuse to acknowledge this is perplexing, if you were in control of common sense. You are a neo-con and perhaps don't realize it. Your position is that you will sacrifice everything for something you imagine is true. That you can't face it, is cowardly.

No one wants the atrocities to end more than the Ron Paul folks, and I think you know that. That he is not going to win doesn't mean people abandon their principles, or what is right in nature. That you feel you must embrace 'something' that sounds good, when under the smallest scrutiny is abhorrent, is contemptable and worse.

There are hundreds of thousands of soldiers around the world who are now slaves to the madness, and you are not doing your part to defend or support them, who believe, they are supporting you.

What twisted mind can say that Obama's advisors blueprints for bigger wars, is somehow better is beyond my understanding.

That he is able to dance around direct answers and you swallow it, is unbelievable.

You constantly hide behind Party labels to make your case for you... since you can NOT make a good one for BO.

He's a globalist, and their first order of business is to destroy what's left of our country. You will have your way, and I suspect you will be the biggest flag waver if your guy is leading the charge.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   15:32:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: iconoclast (#47)

May the bird of paradise shit a crack house in your back yard.

Ever had an addict in your family?

And, please don't bring up the sorry "War on Drugs".

I,

I've seen more than I care to.

And, I didn't bring up the war on drugs... read up and follow along.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   15:34:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: iconoclast (#49)

Thats' quite a confession, Hon .... I don't believe it. :-)

I'm not worried about what you believe.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   15:36:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Peppa (#50)

!!


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-04-02   15:37:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Peppa (#50)

We know it’s time to time to restore our Constitution and the rule of law. This is an issue that was at the heart of Senator Dodd’s candidacy, and I share his passion for restoring the balance between the security we demand and the civil liberties that we cherish.

The American people must be able to trust that their president values principle over politics, and justice over unchecked power. I’ve been proud to stand with Senator Dodd in his fight against retroactive immunity for the telecommunications industry. Secrecy and special interests must not trump accountability. We must show our citizens - and set an example to the world - that laws cannot be ignored when it is inconvenient. Because in America - no one is above the law.

It’s time to reject torture without equivocation. It’s time to close Guantanamo and to restore habeas corpus. It’s time to give our intelligence and law enforcement agencies the tools they need to track down and take out terrorists, while ensuring that their actions are subject to vigorous oversight that protects our freedom. So let me be perfectly clear: I have taught the Constitution, I understand the Constitution, and I will obey the Constitution when I am President of the United States.

Finally, it’s time to once again inspire this nation to rally behind a common purpose - a higher purpose. Throughout his campaign, Senator Dodd spoke eloquently about the need to turn the page to a new era of public service. That is the legacy of his own family - the legacy of a father who stood up to the Nazis at Nuremberg, and a young man who enlisted in the Peace Corps after he heard President Kennedy’s call to service on a cold Inauguration Day.

From Obama's speech accepting Dodd's endorsement.

I heard him call for restoring habeas corpus in his first campaign speech in New Hampshire, after Iowa. The New Yorker says he repeatedly calls for restoring habeas corpus in his speeches, and that the line always gets big applause.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-02   15:43:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Peppa (#52)

I'm not worried about what you believe.

Fair enough.

And I won't worry about your libertine lifestyle.

I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-02   15:45:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: aristeides (#54) (Edited)

He supported the unconstitutional Patriot Act.

He liked to refer to himself as a Constitutional Professor, which he is not, and when caught, corrected it to lecturer.

Speeches are nice, but where is he on the floor of the Senate, speaking out about such?

Why embed his advisors with CFR members and hate mongerers? Maybe you can expand on your personal logic.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   15:47:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Peppa (#50)

He's a globalist, and their first order of business is to destroy what's left of our country.

Damn few politicians of any stripe aren't right now.

In the meantime I'll sleep better with one of the alliance types than the pre-emptive war types in office.

PS Obama is also not the type of globalist that considers protectionism a bad word.

I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-02   15:52:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: iconoclast (#55)

Fair enough.

And I won't worry about your libertine lifestyle.

My libertine tendancies and positions tell you nothing about my lifestyle. Don't trip over your assumptions.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   15:55:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Peppa (#50)

His advisors want bigger wars, globalism and further suspension of civil liberties. Why you refuse to acknowledge this is perplexing

Where you ever came up with this baseless smear is what's perplexing.

I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-02   15:55:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: iconoclast (#57)

In the meantime I'll sleep better with one of the alliance types than the pre-emptive war types in office.

You better read up on Zbig then. As a reminder, he and his son Mark are advisors to Obama. I would say that alliance is one that requires some attention.

As I mentioned the other day, Obama should run as 3rd party and declare the positions that are his own, and toss the globalists from his circle.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   15:57:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: iconoclast (#59)

Where you ever came up with this baseless smear is what's perplexing.

I've posted quite a bit about the Grand Chessboard by Zbig.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   15:58:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Peppa (#58)

My libertine tendancies and positions tell you nothing about my lifestyle.

I was just joshin you kid.

Hint ...

Stop using words you don't know the meaning of.

I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-02   16:00:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Peppa (#61)

I've posted quite a bit about the Grand Chessboard by Zbig.

And I have repeatedly pointed out to you that The Grand Chessboard, from a decade ago, no longer represents Brzezinski's thinking. The more recent The Choice: Global Domination or Global Leadership (2004) and Second Chance: Three Presidents and the Crisis of American Superpower (2007) are very different in their thinking.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-02   16:03:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: iconoclast (#59)

Where you ever came up with this ...is what's perplexing.

It's called reading and analysis. Read who BO's advisors are. Read what their positions are. Then you will understand how Peppa came up with this conclusion. "Baseless smears"? Mischaracterization is tiresome and time wasting. Please refrain.

"Look well therefore to this Day!" ~ Kalidasa

angle  posted on  2008-04-02   16:05:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Peppa (#60)

As I mentioned the other day, Obama should run as 3rd party and declare the positions that are his own, and toss the globalists from his circle.

And then he would get one percent of the vote, just like every other third party candidate. Our electoral system is completely rigged against third parties. Picture this: A hurdles race with multiple tracks. Two tracks have "hurdles" that consist of wooden platforms about six inches high, all the runners in those lanes have to do is to not be so uncoordinated that they actually trip over them. The "hurdles" in the other lanes consist of brick walls about fifty feet high, soaked in a mix of crude oil, raw sewage and toxic waste. The tops of the walls are set with shards of broken glass. And there's one wall every five feet, and each one is ten feet taller than the one before it.

THAT is the system we currently have that confronts third party candidates. It's a joke, a sham, there will NEVER EVER EVER be a "third party" candidate elected to the presidency. We'll grow wings and fly to the moon under our own power before that happens. The Plutocrats have rigged this system REAL good, all for them, nothing for us, and that's how it's going to stay until there's a major revolt.

Gold and silver are REAL money, paper is but a promise.

Elliott Jackalope  posted on  2008-04-02   16:06:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Peppa (#41)

That the drugs are used to destroy the mind and potential is evil. Whether they are legal or illegal. However, I basically subscribe to the belief that a person has the right to do what he wants to himself, as long as he does not hurt others or nature.

I guess I'm somewhere in the Libertine corner on such issues.

me too

christine  posted on  2008-04-02   16:08:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: aristeides (#63)

And I have pointed out to you that his blueprint led to disaster and is hurting the cause of imperialism. That his plan was a bad and deadly one, and his aim is to move for a wider and bigger war. A bad plan with yet another bad plan for the cause of globalism and one world order.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   16:08:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Peppa (#29)

There isn't a need to show me Peppa. Some folks I came to this forum with have become infatuated w/the political left for reasons that are beyond me. They won't communicate to you, and it's best they ignore me too. If Gore, et al, are viable political choices for them, we can save our time and energy trading posts.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-02   16:09:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: Peppa (#60)

You better read up on Zbig then. As a reminder, he and his son Mark are advisors to Obama.

Zbig's foreign policy philosophy is rooted in WWII and cold war western alliances. It bears little or no resemblance to the neocon, imperialistic globalism of the highjacked Republican party.

It is not congruent with my own politics of populist protectionism and isolationism but it's miles closer that what your (my old) party has arrived at. In the words of RR, I didn't leave the party, it left me.

I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-02   16:10:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Elliott Jackalope (#65)

Agreed, but you do remember the months of trying to get Ron Paul to run 3rd party to show that he rejects the evil GOP? Well, why shouldn't the same standard be applied to Obama if he were, in fact, different?

It exposes the shills, liars and moles that infested this place for months.

I agree with you completely though.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   16:11:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Peppa (#67)

Have you read either of the books I just cited?

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-02   16:12:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: christine (#66)

me too

Cool. Careful, you'll be accused of watching Fox News here in a bit.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   16:12:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Jethro Tull (#68)

There isn't a need to show me Peppa. Some folks I came to this forum with have become infatuated w/the political left for reasons that are beyond me. They won't communicate to you, and it's best they ignore me too. If Gore, et al, are viable political choices for them, we can save our time and energy trading posts.

Understood.

I do this for the 'children'. ;)

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   16:13:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Elliott Jackalope (#65)

The Plutocrats have rigged this system REAL good, all for them, nothing for us, and that's how it's going to stay until there's a major revolt.

They didn't rig it well enough to prevent JFK from becoming president. And then he proved enough of a nuisance to them that they had him assassinated.

Obama MIGHT turn out the same.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-02   16:13:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: christine, Peppa, aristeides (#66)

I guess I'm somewhere in the Libertine corner on such issues.

me too

Good heavens, ari, we're surrounded by loose women. ;-)

I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-02   16:14:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: iconoclast (#69)

Zbig's foreign policy philosophy is rooted in WWII and cold war western alliances. It bears little or no resemblance to the neocon, imperialistic globalism of the highjacked Republican party.

It is not congruent with my own politics of populist protectionism and isolationism but it's miles closer that what your (my old) party has arrived at. In the words of RR, I didn't leave the party, it left me.

Incredible. Your reading comprehension and the inability to connect the events that transpired as a result, is off the chart.

What a lazy mind.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   16:17:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: aristeides (#74)

If Obama is the antithesis of the neocons, why do you suppose they provide him with such favorable state-owned media coverage?

"Look well therefore to this Day!" ~ Kalidasa

angle  posted on  2008-04-02   16:19:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: aristeides (#71)

Have you read either of the books I just cited?

Have you read the Grand Chessboard yet, or still jonesing to ignore the glaring goals of Zbig and the CFR? Of course his strategy changes, to find the best path to create the least resistance to Global Corporate control. It's hideous.

Have you read ANYTHING about how we got here, or are you satisfied to fill your shelves with only that which agrees with your opinion at the moment?

History is not something you can choose, and if it were so, there are millions buried whose families would love to change it as well.

Are you so divorced from reality that you CAN not see, or is it easier to hide your eyes?

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   16:22:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: Peppa (#76)

You've lifted my spirits today! Thanks!!

Gotta run, and NOT for office...;)


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-04-02   16:22:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: FOH (#79)

You've lifted my spirits today! Thanks!!

Gotta run, and NOT for office...;)

I'm looking for the counselor to make his case FOR Obama. His case. Not the establishment approved message, but his own. You'd think, he'd be capable of doing so.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   16:25:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: Peppa (#78)

I have read The Choice, a much more recent book than The Grand Chessboard. I doubt if anybody else on this thread or forum has read even that much Brzezinski. If I ever get around to reading another book by him, it will be his most recent one. Since it deals something close to the current world, it would be a more productive use of my time.

I see no reason why I should waste my time reading a book he published about a decade ago, in a very different world.

Brzezinski recognizes that the world has changed. Other people seem stuck in Cold War thinking.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-02   16:25:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: angle, Peppa, buckeye, christine, JamesDeffenbach, Cynicom, JethroTull, Hayek Fan, lodwick, IndieTX, robin, iconoclast, aristeides, ALL (#77)


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-04-02   16:26:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: aristeides (#81)


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-04-02   16:28:48 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Elliott Jackalope (#65)

THAT is the system we currently have that confronts third party candidates. It's a joke, a sham, there will NEVER EVER EVER be a "third party" candidate elected to the presidency. We'll grow wings and fly to the moon under our own power before that happens.

Sad but true. And, the voting/elections rules are laid down at the state level. It would take a a constitutional amendment (maybe even a constitutional convention, and God knows we don't that) to change things.

The Plutocrats have rigged this system REAL good, all for them, nothing for us, and that's how it's going to stay until there's a major revolt.

Both "parties" bear the shame. Red states are no different that blue in this regard.

I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-02   16:28:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: Peppa (#80)

I'm looking for the counselor to make his case FOR Obama. His case. Not the establishment approved message, but his own.

Good luck with that! Later...


What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!

FOH  posted on  2008-04-02   16:29:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: aristeides (#81)

I see no reason why I should waste my time reading a book he published about a decade ago, in a very different world.

If you deny history, you repeat it, and it appears you are happy to embrace it under the perversion of our language.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   16:35:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: FOH (#85)

I'm looking for the counselor to make his case FOR Obama. His case. Not the establishment approved message, but his own. Good luck with that! Later...

He is loathe to respond to a direct question, but feels entitled to demand it from others. A case of faulty wiring.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   16:38:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: aristeides (#54)

I heard him call for restoring habeas corpus in his first campaign speech in New Hampshire, after Iowa. The New Yorker says he repeatedly calls for restoring habeas corpus in his speeches, and that the line always gets big applause.

Yes, and do you remember who he excludes?

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   16:40:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: FOH (#82)

who is this speaking? excellent information regarding the bloodlines.

christine  posted on  2008-04-02   16:45:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Peppa (#86)

I take it you have not read a single book by Brzezinski, and yet you feel able to demand that I read a book about a world very different from the current one.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-02   16:45:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Peppa, FOH (#87)

I have put FOH on Bozo, because he confessed he was only here to mock and ridicule. I will not answer a question from him, whether somebody relays it or not.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-02   16:48:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: aristeides (#90)

I take it you have not read a single book by Brzezinski, and yet you feel able to demand that I read a book about a world very different from the current one.

You'd be wrong, and still try to dance your way around history. We are different world, by whose hand? Do you understand how we got here, or is here enough and trusting the same evil to set forth the next blueprint?

It really doesn't appear that you've read his last book either. Zbig doesn't write in code, he makes the goals quite clear.

But, considering that history is not your concern, could you have him rewrite the laws of gravity, cause and effect, and reverse the rotation of the Earth?

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   16:54:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: aristeides (#91)

I have put FOH on Bozo, because he confessed he was only here to mock and ridicule. I will not answer a question from him, whether somebody relays it or not.

To each their own.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   16:57:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: Peppa (#76)

Your reading comprehension and the inability to connect the events that transpired as a result, is off the chart.

What a lazy mind.

Do you never tire of substituting ad hominem attacks for fact based rebuttal?

What are the "events" to which you refer? Cite/source them and we will stand or fall on our responses to them.

I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-02   17:03:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: Peppa (#88) (Edited)

Yes, and do you remember who he excludes?

You must have been a real little teaser in your time.

What is your reason for not revealing this nugget, assuming you have at least a factoid.

I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-02   17:13:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: iconoclast (#95)

You must have been a real little teaser in your time.

What is your reason for nut not revealing this nugget, assuming you have at least a factoid.

Nope, always a tell it like it is sort.

You could always look it up for yourself. You seem capable. :)

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   17:27:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: iconoclast (#94)

Do you never tire of substituting ad hominem attacks for fact based rebuttal?

What are the "events" to which you refer? Cite/source them and we will stand or fall on our responses to them.

Being a yipping poodle suits you.

Oops... there I go again.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   17:28:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: aristeides (#91)

I have put FOH on Bozo

I did so quite a while back. He's reappeared as of late.

"Look well therefore to this Day!" ~ Kalidasa

angle  posted on  2008-04-02   17:47:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: angle, aristedes (#98) (Edited)

I have put FOH on Bozo

I did so quite a while back. He's reappeared as of late.

I have never put anyone on bozo.

Not even Ari...

I have been called vulgar names, insulted and zapped but bozoing is not the way to go, never has been.

Just because you and Ari never agree with anything I have to say does not mean we cant be friends, even if the two of you are wrong most of the time. hehehehehe

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-02   17:51:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: FOH (#83)

From your arguments, I can see how the GOP fooled you into voting for Bush - twice.

Hint: Once an organization like the Republican Party makes an utter fool of you that way, don't go around telling people like me what an idiot you were.

.

...  posted on  2008-04-02   18:22:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: angle (#98)

I have put FOH on Bozo

I did so quite a while back. He's reappeared as of late.

You really don't have to put him on bozo, if you question him about his prior rabid support of Bush, he puts you on bozo to end the conversation.

That's how I got rid of the obnoxious moron.

.

...  posted on  2008-04-02   18:25:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: ... (#101)

You really don't have to put him on bozo, if you question him about his prior rabid support of Bush, he puts you on bozo to end the conversation.

Thanks for the advice, the little creep accused me of being a CFR member just for asking that we limit attacks to candidates rather than each other.

“Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life." - Jack Kerouac

Dakmar  posted on  2008-04-02   18:39:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: Cynicom (#99)

bozoing is not the way to go, never has been.

Sez you. Freedom of association. When you bug me too much, you've been on as well, love.

"Look well therefore to this Day!" ~ Kalidasa

angle  posted on  2008-04-02   18:47:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: angle (#103)

Now my feelings are broken.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-02   18:58:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: Peppa (#96)

You could always look it up for yourself. You seem capable.

Are you referring to your personal qualities or your unsubstantiated charges.

It is customary on forums I've been on to have the person who makes charge back them up with source(s).

Those that don't are ... well let's just say they lose all credibility

I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-02   19:30:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: Cynicom (#104)

Now my feelings are broken.

Didn't you see the love part?

"Look well therefore to this Day!" ~ Kalidasa

angle  posted on  2008-04-02   20:15:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: angle (#106)

Yes but I am a very sensitive person.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-02   20:16:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: iconoclast (#105)

You got to walk,
That lonesome valley,
You got to walk it by yourself,
Oh, nobody else, can walk it for you,
You got to walk, it by yourself.

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-02   20:18:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: Cynicom (#107)

Yes but I am a very sensitive person.

Yes, well, toughen up. Perhaps I put you on filter for your own protection.

"Look well therefore to this Day!" ~ Kalidasa

angle  posted on  2008-04-02   20:25:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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