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Title: The Origins of Christianity and the Quest for the Historical Jesus Christ
Source:
Truth Be Known
URL Source: http://truthbeknown.com/origins.htm
Published: Apr 4, 2008
Author: Acharya
Post Date: 2008-04-04 04:45:14 by Zoroaster
Keywords: None
Views: 829
Comments: 48
The Origins of Christianity and the Quest for the Historical Jesus Christ Part 1 by Acharya S Was Jesus a man, myth or God? The answers may surprise you. Introduction Around the world over the centuries, much has been written about religion, its meaning, its relevance and contribution to humanity. In the West particularly, sizable tomes have been composed speculating upon the nature and historical background of the main character of Western religions, Jesus Christ. Many have tried to dig into the precious few clues as to Jesus's identity and come up with a biographical sketch that either bolsters faith or reveals a more human side of this godman to which we can all relate. Obviously, considering the time and energy spent on them, the subjects of Christianity and its legendary founder are very important to the Western mind and culture. The Controversy Despite all of this literature continuously being cranked out and the significance of the issue, in the public at large there is a serious lack of formal and broad education regarding religion and mythology, and most individuals are highly uninformed in this area. Concerning the issue of Christianity, for example, the majority of people are taught in most schools and churches that Jesus Christ was an actual historical figure and that the only controversy regarding him is that some people accept him as the Son of God and the Messiah, while others do not. However, whereas this is the raging debate most evident in this field today, it is not the most important. Shocking as it may seem to the general populace, the most enduring and profound controversy in this subject is whether or not a person named Jesus Christ ever really existed. Although this debate may not be evident from publications readily found in popular bookstores1, when one examines this issue closely, one will find a tremendous volume of literature that demonstrates, logically and intelligently, time and again that Jesus Christ is a mythological character along the same lines as the Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Sumerian, Phoenician, Indian or other godmen, who are all presently accepted as myths rather than historical figures2. Delving deeply into this large body of work, one uncovers evidence that the Jesus character is based upon much older myths and heroes from around the globe. One discovers that this story is not, therefore, a historical representation of a Jewish rebel carpenter who had physical incarnation in the Levant 2,000 years ago. In other words, it has been demonstrated continually for centuries that this character, Jesus Christ, was invented and did not depict a real person who was either the "son of God" or was "evemeristically" made into a superhuman by enthusiastic followers3. History and Positions of the Debate This controversy has existed from the very beginning, and the writings of the "Church Fathers" themselves reveal that they were constantly forced by the pagan intelligentsia to defend what the non-Christians and other Christians ("heretics")4 alike saw as a preposterous and fabricated yarn with absolutely no evidence of it ever having taken place in history. As Rev. Robert Taylor says, "And from the apostolic age downwards, in a never interrupted succession, but never so strongly and emphatically as in the most primitive times, was the existence of Christ as a man most strenuously denied."5 Emperor Julian, who, coming after the reign of the fanatical and murderous "good Christian" Constantine, returned rights to pagan worshippers, stated, "If anyone should wish to know the truth with respect to you Christians, he will find your impiety to be made up partly of the Jewish audacity, and partly of the indifference and confusion of the Gentiles, and that you have put together not the best, but the worst characteristics of them both."6 According to these learned dissenters, the New Testament could rightly be called, "Gospel Fictions."7 A century ago, mythicist Albert Churchward said, "The canonical gospels can be shown to be a collection of sayings from the Egyptian Mythos and Eschatology."8 In Forgery in Christianity, Joseph Wheless states, "The gospels are all priestly forgeries over a century after their pretended dates."9 Those who concocted some of the hundreds of "alternative" gospels and epistles that were being kicked about during the first several centuries C.E. have even admitted that they had forged the documents.10 Forgery during the first centuries of the Church's existence was admittedly rampant, so common in fact that a new phrase was coined to describe it: "pious fraud."11 Such prevarication is confessed to repeatedly in the Catholic Encyclopedia.12 Some of the "great" church fathers, such as Eusebius13, were determined by their own peers to be unbelievable liars who regularly wrote their own fictions of what "the Lord" said and did during "his" alleged sojourn upon the earth.14 The Proof The assertion that Jesus Christ is a myth can be proved not only through the works of dissenters and "pagans" who knew the truth - and who were viciously refuted or murdered for their battle against the Christian priests and "Church Fathers" fooling the masses with their fictions - but also through the very statements of the Christians themselves, who continuously disclose that they knew Jesus Christ was a myth founded upon more ancient deities located throughout the known ancient world. In fact, Pope Leo X, privy to the truth because of his high rank, made this curious declaration, "What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us!"15 (Emphasis added.) As Wheless says, "The proofs of my indictment are marvellously easy." The Gnostics From their own admissions, the early Christians were incessantly under criticism by scholars of great repute who were impugned as "heathens" by their Christian adversaries. This group included many Gnostics, who strenuously objected to the carnalization of their deity, as the Christians can be shown to have taken many of the characteristics of their god and godman from the Gnostics, meaning "Ones who know," a loose designation applied to members of a variety of esoteric schools and brotherhoods. The refutations of the Christians against the Gnostics reveal that the Christian godman was an insult to the Gnostics, who held that their god could never take human form.16 Page 1 of 6 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Next: Biblical Sources >> For more information, please see: The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled. The Historical Jesus? The Jesus Forgery: Josephus Untangled Pliny, Tacitus and Suetonius: No Proof of Jesus Moon Mary: Queen of Heaven Born of a Virgin on December 25th Easter: Christian or Pagan? Astrotheology of the Ancients Krishna Born of a Virgin? Krishna Crucified? Osiris The Lord: Out of Egypt Life of Buddha Introduction to Suns of God "Suns of God" Review Dr. Robert Price's "Suns of God" Review Jesus in India? Beddru is Beddou is Buddha Mithra/Mithras: The Pagan Christ The Myth of Noah's Ark Jesus God Man or Myth Debunking the Christ Myth Origins of Christianity, Part 1 Origins of Christianity, Part 2 Origins of Christianity, Part 3 Origins of Christianity, Part 4 Origins of Christianity, Part 5 Origins of Christianity, Part 6 The Christ Conspiracy Articles
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#9. To: Zoroaster (#6)
Yes religion is man made. I agree with that. But the Bible isn't a religion. It is a message from God that man is free to accept or reject. And there are consequences even if you don't believe so.
Similarly, just because it's in the Bible doesn't make it true. Actually, if it's in the Bible, it's probably false. Indeed, the overwhelmingly fraudulent intrinsic quality of the Bible itself is what foments fraud and attracts more frauds to it. The Bible is a complete fraud/victim magnet, it's a proven conspiracy, a coddled delusion. The Bible is a curse on those who won't join the conspiracy, and so you want to suggest that not following it means death. It's all just too disgusting, as its manifest fraudulence makes it a curse on any truths it incorporates.
Agreed.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
You make good points.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. What you said is not true. The Bible is totally accurate. That is why it has withstood the test of time. It has worn out many anvils. If I may ask. What do you perceive to be in the Bible that is not true?
Thank you both. Thank you much.
The Bible starts with a lie and practically nevers slows down. If you won't admit it, then you're better off ignoring me and that's how I'd prefer you behave.
Most welcome Friend.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
You are very welcome.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Like I said, the Bible attracts frauds who adopt it because it's a tolerated fraud. .... and of course it's a tolerated fraud because it serves the elite. The elite beat it into your ancestors' hides and skulls. So there you have it: The Bible is corruption serving the corrupt. Now you can't say you weren't told.
"God is dead." ~ Nietzche "Nietzche is dead." ~ God
I agree that the Bible is used by the corrupt for evil purposes, but I believe there is also alot of truth and wisdom to be found in it. I don't believe that God wrote it. That's absurd. God doesn't write books. People do.
The ark story is truly retarded.
You are so specific. not You are like others you criticise but can never give specifics. lame
Your comment is very ignorant. How the hell do you think the fossil record was created. The flood. No other even on earth could create the fossil record that we have. Millions of dead things buried in mud laid down by water all over the earth. Even in the frickin desert and highest mountains. Explain that away "einstein".
Pope Leo was a cryptoJew, part of the ongoing antiChrist plot: "DEATH OF THE PHOENIX FINAL ACT FOR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ACT III. THE DAWN OF AQUARIUS SCENE I. The Holy Roman Empire Enter Giovanni de Medici as Pope Leo X, also Merovingians William St. Clair and Mary de Guise In the early 16th century, Pope Leo X, formerly Giovanni de Medici of the Jewish House of Medici, bankrupted the Vatican with an extravagant remodeling program. To make up the deficit, Leo launched an empire-wide campaign for the selling of indulgences. This particular papal abuse was the final straw that triggered the Protestant Reformation... which may have been the plan from the start: “In one fell swoop, the Christian world was cleft in twain. No longer would Rome be able to raise great armies from its subject nations to crush heresies wherever the Papal finger pointed. There was no longer just one big boy on the block. Another had moved in. The mightiest church the world had ever known had been ‘divided’ and ‘conquered’.” (Rosslyn Chapel Revisited) By means of covert operations, the Merovingian dynasty has always managed to keep their opposition divided and ineffective. William St. Clair and Mary de Guise, who lived during the Reformation period, apparently knew this little secret and, as high-born Merovingian Jews, were skilled in deploying their agents provocateurs: “But the Reformed Church would not be allowed to remain squeaky clean. The life of Mary’s grandson, James VI, the first masonic* king of both Scotland and England, would be threatened by a plot hatched by ‘witches’ on Halloween, 1590. The celebrated but trumped-up case of the ‘North Berwick Witches’ kick-started over a century of Scottish witch hunts, and proved that your average Presbyterian could be just as vindictive as your average Catholic when it came to fighting Satan's minions. While an equilibrium had been established between the two great Christian powers, neither can yet lay claim to being the saintliest, and each still has that heavy cross of guilt to bear. Another perfect doublecross, perhaps?” (Ibid.) *We note here that Merovingian authors include King James among the Masonic conspirators when it suits their purposes. In reality they were bitter enemies of King James due to his prosecution of the Druids who were a criminal element in Scotland. To get a true reading on the Christian character of King James, and his abhorrence of the witchcraft of the Merovingians, one has only to read his book, The Daemonologie......." http://maranatha-amen.com/dawn-aquarius.html "....This is what sparked the Reformation. The Pope desperately needed money to build St. Peter's in Rome. Forgiveness of sins was offered for a price —murder, adultery, lying, theft, swearing etc., etc. You could even buy forgiveness for future sins. . . . Salvation was bought and sold like any common marketplace commodity. That the Gift of God could be treated so contemptuously was the last straw for Luther. Handwriting on the door. Oct. 31, 1517. Pope Leo X Pope Leo X. (1513 - 1521). Leo thundered at Saint Martin and ordered him to appear at Rome with 60 days!! The Burning of Babylon commences!! Roman Emperor Leo X., roared at Luther and sent him a Bull of Excommunication ordering him to appear at Rome within 60 days to recant . . . or face a fiery death. Flames consume the Papal Bull of Excommunication. Luther ignored this Papal thunder and on Dec. 10, 1520, outside the gates of Wittenberg, he burnt the Papal Bull;, the Decretals of Clement VI., the Summa Angelica, the Chrysposus of Dr. Eck etc., etc. By this brave act Luther formally excommunicated the Pope. Since that fateful day, the fire of God's wrath has never ceased to consume Babylon the Great...... http://www.reformation.org/luther.html CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Pope Leo X Pope Leo X. (GIOVANNI DE MEDICI). Born at Florence, 11 December, 1475; died at Rome, 1 December, 1521, was the second son of Lorenzo the Magnificent ... http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09162a.htm "...."Mrs. Van Hyning, I am surprised at your surprise. You are a student of history -- and you know that both the Borgias and the Mediciis are Jewish families of Italy. Surely you know that there have been Popes from both of these houses. Perhaps it will surprise you to know that we have had 20 Jewish Popes, and when you have sufficient time, which may coincide with my free time, I can show you these names and dates. You will learn from these that: The crimes committed in the name of the Catholic Church were under Jewish Popes. The leaders of the inquisition was one, de TorQuemada, a Jew." (Woman's Voice, November 25, 1953)...." 1001 Quotes By and About Jews MYSTERY BABYLON 3 MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT. CATHOLIC OR JEWISH? PART III. THE MEDICI ... Medici (1535-1605) was Pope Leo XI and Giovanni de Medici, Pope Leo X (1513-1521). ... http://watch.pair.com/mystery-babylon-3.html The Gnostics From their own admissions, the early Christians were incessantly under criticism by scholars of great repute who were impugned as "heathens" by their Christian adversaries. This group included many Gnostics, who strenuously objected to the carnalization of their deity, as the Christians can be shown to have taken many of the characteristics of their god and godman from the Gnostics, meaning "Ones who know," a loose designation applied to members of a variety of esoteric schools and brotherhoods. The refutations of the Christians against the Gnostics reveal that the Christian godman was an insult to the Gnostics, who held that their god could never take human form.16 1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come *** in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of ***** antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and *** even now already is it in the world. 2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. "THE REFORMATION: ROSICRUCIAN CONNECTIONS Today we hear frequent exhortations coming from Fundamental and Evangelical leaders that the Church needs a "new Reformation," or a second or third Reformation....... ".... * ESOTERIC CHRISTIANITY * Christians have been led to believe that the "one world religion" will eradicate Christianity, rather than transform it. * FICTION: The one world religion will exclude evangelical Christianity. “The most likely scenario in the years following this Parliament (of World Religions) will be the gradual formation of a 'World Council of Religion' which will function in a way similar to that of the present World Council of Churches or the United Nations. Despite their differences, this league of religions will be most united in three particular areas: “1. To foster the view that all religions (in which they mistakenly include Christianity) share the same God and are one in their ultimate ambitions. 2. To create permanent world peace and justice through cooperation with a similarly-confederated form of world government (e.g., the United Nations). 3. To propagate the concept that biblical, evangelical Christianity is a hindrance to 'evolutionary' progress and spiritual growth on this planet." (Alan Morrison, The Serpent & the Cross, K. & M. Books, 1994, 1999, Chapter 12.) * FACT: The "one world religion" will be a Gnostic form of Christianity. “Is Christianity to survive as the religion of the West? Is it to live through the centuries of the future, and to continue to play a part in moulding the thought of the evolving western races? If it is to live, it must regain the knowledge it has lost, and again have its mystic and its occult teachings; it must again stand forth as an authoritative teacher of spiritual verities, clothed with the only authority worth anything, the authority of knowledge. If these teachings be regained, their influence will soon be seen in wider and deeper views of truth; dogmas, which now seem like mere shells and fetters, shall again be seen to partial presentments of fundamental realities. First, Esoteric Christianity will reappear in the ‘Holy Place’, in the Temple so that all who are capable of receiving it may follow its lines of published thought; and secondly, Occult Christianity will again descend into the adytum, dwelling behind the veil which guards the ‘Holy of Holies’, into which only the Initiate may enter…” (Annie Besant, Esoteric Christianity, pp. 26-7)......" http://www.angelfire.com/journal...o-prayer/reformation.html great....all you who don't want Christ to rule over you....this is what you will get if you get your way: Scepter of Judah and Thesis Statements [Agenda for World War, Destruction of Christian America; and Jewish Supremacy] http://www.freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=75182 good job.
President Wilson signed the Federal Reserve Act on December 23, 1913. History proved that on that day, the Constitution ceased to be the governing covenant of the American people, and our liberties were handed over to a small group of international bankers. - Secrets of the Federal Reserve by Eustace Mullins
It's one thing to doubt a persons existence, because of what His believers say. You can say that they have an agenda. It's quite another thing when you consider what His enemies had to say. His enemies make great witnesses.
------They may look intimidating, by design, but they aren't bulletproof. -------
How the hell do you think the fossil record was created. The flood. While a fucking pile of moronic pitbull dogshit. Circular reasoning eschews plate tectonics. Too funny.
Have you ever stopped to think that maybe those like falwell, robertson and many of the others work for somebody/something south of the border. Their goal is to drive you away from believing?
Here's a link you may find interesting. The title of the page is "Fraud in the Bible: Or, it sucks that you don't know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic."
#10. To: Old Friend (#8)
(Edited)
Just because someone says they are a christian doesn't make it so.
#11. To: Old Friend (#9)
Yes religion is man made. I agree with that. But the Bible isn't a religion. It is a message from God that man is free to accept or reject. And there are consequences even if you don't believe so.
#12. To: Old Friend (#9)
Yes religion is man made. I agree with that. But the Bible isn't a religion. It is a message from God that man is free to accept or reject. And there are consequences even if you don't believe so.
Lord Acton
#13. To: nobody (#10)
Similarly, just because it's in the Bible doesn't make it true.
#14. To: James Deffenbach, Peppa (#12)
#15. To: Old Friend (#13)
(Edited)
What do you perceive to be in the Bible that is not true?
#16. To: Old Friend (#14)
Thank you both. Thank you much.
#17. To: Old Friend (#14)
Thank you both. Thank you much.
Lord Acton
#18. To: Old Friend (#13)
(Edited)
#19. To: Old Friend (#5)
"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." ~ Mahatma Ghandi
#20. To: nobody, Old Friend (#18)
The Bible is corruption serving the corrupt.
"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." ~ Mahatma Ghandi
#21. To: wudidiz (#20)
#22. To: nobody (#15)
The Bible starts with a lie and practically nevers slows down.
#23. To: nobody (#21)
The ark story is truly retarded.
#24. To: Zoroaster (#0)
The assertion that Jesus Christ is a myth can be proved not only through the works of dissenters and "pagans" who knew the truth - and who were viciously refuted or murdered for their battle against the Christian priests and "Church Fathers" fooling the masses with their fictions - but also through the very statements of the Christians themselves, who continuously disclose that they knew Jesus Christ was a myth founded upon more ancient deities located throughout the known ancient world. In fact, Pope Leo X, privy to the truth because of his high rank, made this curious declaration, "What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us!"15 (Emphasis added.) As Wheless says, "The proofs of my indictment are marvellously easy."
#25. To: Zoroaster (#6)
(Edited)
#26. To: Old Friend (#23)
(Edited)
Your comment is very ignorant.
#27. To: Zoroaster (#6)
#28. To: Old Friend (#13)
If I may ask. What do you perceive to be in the Bible that is not true?
 | Gold and silver are REAL money, paper is but a promise. |
#29. To: Old Friend (#22)
Due to the lies, putting wisdom into the Bible was a bit like putting food into a latrine pit, unfortunately.
#30. To: nobody (#29)
You offer no substance whatsoever. Just blather. I guess that is what I would expect from a nobody.
#31. To: Elliott Jackalope (#28)
I am not going to go sort your laundry. But if you have a comment from your little list. Please post it here. I might even have the wisdom to set you straight on your confusion. But maybe not. Give it a toss.
#32. To: Old Friend (#31)
The missing question in this debate is which Bible are we talking about? The most often quoted and pushed by the Christian right is the "Scofield Reference Bible "en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scofield_Reference_Bible Understanding this helps explain the various myths such as Jews are Gods chosen people and groups like Christians United For Israel and John Hagee Pat Robertson etc As stated before Jefferson wrote "The Life and Morals of Jesus" he like many questioned faith and to better understand the moral teachings of Jesus he paid no attention to the birth of Jesus or the book of Revelations .....smart man!
#33. To: robnoel (#32)
I like the King James version. I don't like the NIV because it has flaws in it. The Scofield is also not very good in my opinion. But the Bible makes it clear that the Jews are the chosen people of God. That just means that he chose them to reveal his word to. Then he said that the whole world would be blessed because of them. Saying that the Jews are not the chosen people is not what Gods word teaches. Jesus even said that he came first for the Jew then the Gentile. Nice to meet you Rob.
#34. To: Old Friend (#33)
God did not write the Bible, Jews did. It was written by Jews, for Jews.
Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.
#35. To: Old Friend (#33)
Although the reference in the bible you site is correct the true test of chosenness is how humble you are to suggest that as Jews they are somehow closer to G-d than all other nations smacks of arrogance and elitism this is the position of the likes of John Hagee in the support of Israel yet if one takes the end times philosophy to its ultimate conclusion G-d's chosen will have accept Christ and reject Judism or spend the rest of time in purgatory....needless to say Hagee does never address this small problem....nice to meet you as well :-)
#36. To: Old Friend (#33)
But the Bible makes it clear that the Jews are the chosen people of God. That just means that he chose them to reveal his word to. Then he said that the whole world would be blessed because of them. Saying that the Jews are not the chosen people is not what Gods word teaches. Jesus even said that he came first for the Jew then the Gentile. my KJV disagrees with yours.....the promises given to the so-called Jews were transferred to the Christian believers [we were grafted in with the OT FAITHFUL, and the harlot branches were cut off]. When you see a prophecy given for "Israel" that has not been fulfilled, think "church". Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. Luk 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. Isa 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name: [It's mate: Jhn 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. [not servants, but "friends", like Father Abraham, who BELIEVED God, and it was accounted to him for RIGHTEOUSNESS, and Abraham was a FRIEND OF GOD.] Jhn 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. (And what did He say to the Fig Tree in Jerusalem, symbol of Judaism: LET NO FRUIT GROW ON THEE HENCEFORTH FOREVER) ] Isa 65:16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; [ I AM the Way, the TRUTH, and the Life. No one comes to the Father but by me.] ] and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes...... http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Isa/Isa065.html#15 [There are TWO Israels in Isaiah 65...one cursed and one blessed. One chosen, and one not.] 1Pe 2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/1Pe/2/9.html 1Pe 2:10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. Rom 9:6 ¶ Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel: Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed...... Rom 9:22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. Rom 9:26 And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: Rom 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut [it] short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. Rom 9:29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha. Rom 9:30 ¶ What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because [they sought it] not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rom/Rom009.html#8 Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed. Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. Gal 3:10 ¶ For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree: Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Gal 3:15 ¶ Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though [it be] but a man's covenant, yet [if it be] confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to ***** thy seed, which is Christ. Gal 3:17 And this I say, [that] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. [You might want to take a look at Genesis 15:13-14 here, the promise that was given prior to the Israelites going into Israel, where they spent 430 years to the day, only about 160 of them being afflicted.] Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave [it] to Abraham by promise. Gal 3:19 ¶ Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one. Gal 3:21 [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. [so long, Noahide Laws] Gal 3:26 ¶ For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. *******Gal 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Gal/3/29.html To top it off: Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Rev/3/9.html Who's a Jew? Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: Rom 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rom/Rom002.html#29 / http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Rom/2/29.html To believe the Jews are the chosen people when they crucify Christ and His people today, is to believe in : Jewish Fables: Tts 1:14 — Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. 1Ti 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: [so do]. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Tts/Tts001.html#14 / http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Tts/1/14.html The Leaven of the Pharisees: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Mat/16/6.html [Note Ezodus 12:15-19 well.... It is to deny Christ: 2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. It is to play into the hands of the British-Israel Jews who have so twisted the Word of God to say that Jesus came and died so that the Synagogue of Satan could rule the world. Concerning the issue of Christianity, for example, the majority of people are taught in most schools and churches that Jesus Christ was an actual historical figure and that the only controversy regarding him is that some people accept him as the Son of God and the Messiah, while others do not. However, whereas this is the raging debate most evident in this field today, it is not the most important. Shocking as it may seem to the general populace, the most enduring and profound controversy in this subject is whether or not a person named Jesus Christ ever really existed. I think maybe they are running out of legs to stand on in their dash to rule the world through lies and murder and robbery...so now they want to deny that Jesus was ever born....and that is NOT the mark of a CHOSEN PEOPLE; it is the MARK of ANTICHRIST: 1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Jo/1Jo004.html#3 / www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/1Jo/4/3.html
I like the King James version.....
President Wilson signed the Federal Reserve Act on December 23, 1913. History proved that on that day, the Constitution ceased to be the governing covenant of the American people, and our liberties were handed over to a small group of international bankers. - Secrets of the Federal Reserve by Eustace Mullins
#37. To: robnoel (#35)
I can agree with that. Except for the purgatory part. Purgatory isn't in the Bible. It is a catholic perversion. That is my opinion.
if one takes the end times philosophy to its ultimate conclusion G-d's chosen will have accept Christ and reject Judism or spend the rest of time in purgatory....
#38. To: Zoroaster (#34)
So moses and Abraham were Jews? What about Jesus was he one too? Physically yes men did write it. But the Bible claims they were inspired by God. I believe the Bible is correct in its claim. Man couldn't have written a perfect book like the Bible. You of course are free to disagree with me on that point. But one thing I find interesting is that the Bible has withstood the test of time and has spread over all the earth. On the other hand zoroasterism is obsucre and virtually unknown and has not spread over the earth.
God did not write the Bible, Jews did. It was written by Jews, for Jews.
#39. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#36)
I don't think our Bibles disagree. I think one of us is right and one is wrong. Or maybe we are both wrong. I believe that I am correct. I of course could be wrong im no where close to perfect. I don't know the exact chapter but I think it is in revelation. It talks about all of israel being saved. Do you have a knowledge or opinion of that verse?
my KJV disagrees with yours.....the promises given to the so-called Jews were transferred to the Christian believers [we were grafted in with the OT FAITHFUL, and the harlot branches were cut off]. When you see a prophecy given for "Israel" that has not been fulfilled, think "church".
#40. To: Old Friend (#39)
I think you should try and use the Jefferson example which is where I am coming from ...... Thomas Jefferson believed that the ethical system of Jesus was the finest the world has ever seen. In compiling what has come to be called "The Jefferson Bible," he sought to separate those ethical teachings from the religious dogma and other supernatural elements that are intermixed in the account provided by the four Gospels. He presented these teachings, along with the essential events of the life of Jesus, in one continuous narrative. This presentation of The Jefferson Bible offers the text as selected and arranged by Jefferson in two separate editions: one edition uses a revised King James Version of the biblical texts, corrected in accordance with the findings of modern scholarship; the second edition uses the original unrevised KJV. The actual verses of the Bible used for both editions are those chosen by Jefferson. Visitors should find the revised KJV text much easier to read and understand. Those seeking the precise English version Mr. Jefferson used when making his compilation can click on "Unrevised KJV text."
#41. To: robnoel (#40)
I think I will just go with what Jesus said. That he is the ONLY WAY to God. I sincerely believe that.
#42. To: Old Friend, Zoroaster (#38)
No. Zoroaster was subsumed into the Persian Shia Islamic religious structure when the Arab conquests of the eighth century dominated Persia. The arabs converted the Persians at sword point and the Persians developed their Shia form of Islam by putting window dressing on their beloved Zoroaster beliefs. So the ancient religion still exists, the name had to be changed to exist under the Sunni occupation of Persia. The Arabs, generally speaking, hold the Shias in contempt both for their own racism and because they realize the Shias practice a form of Islam that is a bit of a sham, and is really much of the ancient religion they wanted to wipe out. In short Shias are apostates in the view of the Islam orthodoxy. The Sunni Arabs maintained a economic domination the relegated the Shia to a inferior social and economic status that persists to this day where ever the two sects coexist. You are of course correct in saying that it did not spread over the earth, and really is in stagnation as, AFAIK, Shia Islam does not do much to convert others. I know, picky, picky.
On the other hand zoroasterism is obsucre and virtually unknown and has not spread over the earth.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" 
#43. To: tom007 (#42)
Thanks for the insight.
#44. To: tom007 (#42)
Good info about Zoroasterism: I'm a Celt, not Persian; I picked up the user name Zoroaster because I liked Nietzsche's work "Thus Spoke Zarathustra." Although I've done research on Zoroaster, it never occurred to me that the Sha of Islam was based on Zoroastrianism. It fits in with what I've read. BTW, there may have been two Zoroasters, the first appearing about 1,500 BC, the second around 500 BC.
Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.
#45. To: Old Friend (#38)
Without the Old Testament, what I call the Jew Book, Judaism would have died out as a world religion long ago. Marcion the first editor, compiler, of the New Testament ( Rome, AD 135-150) believed Paul the prophet had declared the Old Testament as fulfilled and concluded. Going a step farther, Marcion the real creator of the New Testament pronounced the Old Testament defeated and cancelled. He saw in Paul’s work only the basis on which to found the true religion of salvation, and he strove to cut everything Jewish out of it, down to the last detail. From end to end he was fighting nothing but Judaism. If he had had his way, the New Testament would have stood alone, without the evil corruption of Jehovah, Yahweh, the Demiurge, the Creator-God, whatever, and the burden to lesser humans of a Jewish master race in a book that was written by Jews and for Jews. Well, as we all know, the early Roman Church canonized the Old Testament, and it has corrupted Christianity ever since. One could say that the popularity of the New Testament, carrying the Old along in its wake, has given legitimacy to the so-called Jews of today, imposters for the most part, with no connection to ancient Israel, let alone God. If the Old Testament had not been included with the New, and if the Khazar Kingdom had not converted to Judaism eight centuries after Christ, Judaism likely would have perished as a major religion. The key is the word, “Judeo,” as in Judeo-Christian. I must agree with Marcion, the real creator of the New Testament, that the symbiosis with the Old Testament not only confounds but defeats the good principals of Christianity. In the end the Old Testament may prove to be the poison that destroys the message of Christ, giving final victory to the modern-day Pharisees, i.e Zionism and its Christian Zionist syncopates
But one thing I find interesting is that the Bible has withstood the test of time and has spread over all the earth. On the other hand zoroasterism is obsucre and virtually unknown and has not spread over the earth.
Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.
#46. To: Old Friend (#39)
Rom 11:26 — And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion [Zion? they are not the same] the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: [...shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob who was renamed ISRAEL, turn ungodliness away from those who BELIEVE in the Deliverer, Jesus Christ...who turns away ungodliness by taking our sin on his back IF WE BELIEVE HIM. (see Isaiah 53:10-12....HIS righteousness Justifies Many...v 10...he will see HIS SEED....and IF YOU ARE CHRIST'S, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED: those who BELIEVE....See Acts 8....the Black Ethiopian understood this and HE BECAME JESUS' SEED THROUGH HIS BELIEF THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD....the Ethiopian joined the family of God and became a part of ISRAEL. Why do you suppose this chapter Isaiah 53 is not spoken in the synagogues? Probably because it agrees with everything Paul wrote about the Gentiles...(those stupid goyim, beasts, cattle, chattel)....becoming the true Israel and the true CHOSEN PEOPLE.] Again: Rom 9:6 ¶ Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel: Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed...... My opinion is that all Israel will be saved, but as the Scripture says....Not all who are OF Israael, ARE Israel....only people of faith in Jesus Christ are the Israel of God (including those of the OT, of course, who loved God and obeyed Him, and as Isaiah 9:6 says, Jesus IS the God of the OT). Israel today are those who have put on the robes of righteousness that are found only in His shop...remember the wedding party and someone came in without a wedding garment...He was thrown out because he wasn't wearing a 'robe of righteousness' WASHED 'in the blood of the Lamb'. Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, [note: ONLY] a remnant shall be saved: [Is that not true as well? How many Jews do you know who have turned to Christ? As Paul said, Since you believe yourselves to be unworthy of salvation, WE TURN TO THE GENTILES.] Rom 9:29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodom, and been made like unto Gomorrha. [note: left them a seed...A REMNANT as above...otherwise they would have been like Sodom and Gomorrha...WIPED OUT COMPLETELY...but He saved a Faithful REMNANT.] Rom 9:30 ¶ What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because [they sought it] not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Jesus Christ is the King of Israel...Is He the king of people who say His mother was a whore, and He was a false prophet who is burning in hell in excrement, and MAY HIS NAME BE BLOTTED OUT AND FORGOTTEN? That people who worship Him are idolators and must be decapitated? I don't think so, so those people who cling to that grotesque, satanic blasphemy are NOT Israel, and most certainly NOT THE CHOSEN PEOPLE of the KING of Israel. John 16:2 They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming WHEN ANYONE WHO KILLS YOU WILL THINK HE IS OFFERING A SERVICE TO GOD 3 THEY WILL DO SUCH THINGS BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN THE FATHER OR ME. If they don't know Jesus OR God, how in the world can they be 'chosen'. What were they chosen FOR? To teach the nations about God....if they did not know Him how in the world could they TEACH Him? God promised a NEW COVENANT....Jesus is IT. All those in Jesus are the new chosen...the fruit who remain FOREVER....the unbelieving Jews are the BAD FRUIT WHICH ARE CUT OFF. Please go back and read the scriptures in my previous post.....God told them they would leave THEIR NAME [they may be Khazars, but they themselves call themselves JEWS] for A CURSE [think about that for a moment...has that been fulfilled or not?]...and that He would call His servants by another name...they are called "friends" by Jesus, like ABRAHAM, OUR FATHER (Galatians 3:29), and CHRISTIANS after Christ (Christ's whole family in heaven and earth is named after Him: Ephesians 3:14-15) Some people teach a universal salvation. That's a nice thought, but I'm not sure at this point I would agree it....I would tend to NOT agree with it unless there is something I am missing. Why would Christ go through what He went through if that were the case? I know I wouldn't want to risk eternity on something that is not a sure thing, and in fact sounds to me very iffy if not impossible. Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: [NOTE: again, WHO IS RIGHTEOUS? THE ONES WEARING THE ROBES WASHED IN THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB] and he that is holy, let him be holy still. [for He looked down from Heaven and saw there were NONE righteous, no NOT ONE....without a Savior, Jesus Christ] Rev 22:12 ¶ And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. [Read Ezekiel 34...God says He, EVEN HE, will come and search for the LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND TAKE THEM TO THEIR OWN LAND, which is the New Israel/New Jerusalem, which I have pointed out again and again is Christian America, where the Daughter of Jerusalem (faithful Israel, which is now the church) dwells with the daughter of Babylon [the WHORE OF JERUSALEM was the unfaithful city which was supposed to be God's wife, and became a whore...see Ezekiel 8; and Ezek. 16.....the rabbis today are promoting their Pharisee religion]. What did Jesus say? I have not come BUT FOR THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL. Read John 10...He IS THE DOOR to THE SHEEPFOLD...His sheep ARE THOSE WHO FOLLOW HIM....He tells the Pharisees....You do not believe me, BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT MY SHEEP. Modern Judaism is a continuation of the RELIGION OF THE PHARISEES. Jesus called them THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN who He would bring to worship before the feet of the Christians. HOW CAN THEY BE THE CHOSEN PEOPLE?] Rev 22:15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rev/Rev022.html#11 Ye are of your father, the devil...he was a murderer from the beginning and when he speaks of a lie he speaks of his own, for he is the father of lies....paraphrased....ring a bell? what's changed? I wonder if you have spent a lot of time in a "Judeo-Christian" church which has been waylaid by wolves entered in unawares, as Jesus warned would happen. Read THE ILLUMINATI AND THE COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS. The Jews took over the Seminaries, where this false gospel of the Jews as the chosen people is preached ad nauseum today, which has allowed them to take over the world and rule it in a most demonic way. Ye shall know the Truth, and the Truth shall make you free....If the Son hath made you free, ye shall be free indeed. ============ excerpt from samliquidation re "the rapture" and "Daniel's 70 weeks" [I don't agree with all his interpretations, but this caught my eye]: "....Cast into the lake of fire with the False Christ and his False Prophet, all who worship after the beast and they too rejected Jesus the Messiah, as has already been determined since the foundation of the world. All whose names are not written in the Book of the Lamb, slain since the foundation of the world. What Rapture I ask? A Rapture so that all of the scripture only will be for the Jews who even rejected it? And a scripture that the Jews do not need Jesus for salvation "Secret Rapture"? lured into the snare of satan for they Stood not FIRM but fear they attempted to enter into the wedding without white robes If you have fallen for this lie, I ask you to pray for righteousness. I ask that you hungereth and thirsteth after it with all of your soul before you have been deceived by the Whore of Babylon. What if it takes exactly three score and two weeks to complete the building and cleansing of the new Temple unto the Messiah? The seventy weeks were finished November 18 2004, the Sanhedrin was "REvived Oct. 14 2004. The seventy men, the ancients the same hasidic Pharisees who crucified Jesus are Back and they hate the Holy Covenant, and Today Jan 12, 2005 they anounced they are about to coronate and "REVEAL" their king who is no KING for The King of Kings is the Christ Jesus. Very soon now they will begin their building. They already say that their Moshiach is in a cave in Tiberius waiting to be "REVEALED" has he been in that cave since November 2004? What if the seventy weeks are actually literal and while the whole world and Christians who have been taught by the Whore of Satan is busy watching the smoke in the distant horizon the fire is burning at their feet but they have yet seen it?......" http://www.samliquidation.com/daniel's_70.htm Christians will be 'raptured' all right, probably right to the waiting concentration camps built for them by the synagogue of satan, at which time the synagogue of satan will rule the world [or that's their plan, anyway....i don't think it's going to happen that way]. ======================== The Leaven of the Pharisees: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Mat/16/6.html [Note Ezodus 12:15-19 well.... I meant to add a comment there, but forgot, and something came up and I didn't have time to go back. We are to purge out the old leaven....what IF this passover coming up, Jesus came and we were worshipping the antiChrist.....word to the wise..... http://www.reformation.org/happy-resurrection-day.html April 29, (19, by the Gregorian calendar)....401 years in the land that is not ours (yet....Genesis 15:13-14/The US Is Still A British Colony Extorting Taxes for The Crown / The Ultimate Delusion by Stephen Ames/Galatians 3:16-29] 41 stripes [I disagree with a LOT of things here as well, but found this theory interesting]: "....If Ephraim was to receive 400 years blessing, then we should look to the date Joseph's descendents began to colonize on the soil of the new world. Jamestown, the first permanent settlement by the English, was founded in May 1607. Add the 400 years, but keep in mind the fully complete rules. It follows the birthdate/anniversary method in which whatever follows the period of blessing will not happen until the 400 is complete, i.e. not before the 401st stripe. The 401st stripe falls in May 2008, just shy of the June 2008 expiration date for the sign of the Fig Tree....." http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/feb2008/steveb223.htm note: Jamestown is not when and where they planted the cross and dedicated this country to Jesus Christ and the spreading of the gospel: Micah 4. The Blood Moon Eclipse, The Middle East, And End Time Events [Signs in the Sky?] http://www.freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=75014 ================ Biblical Astronomy ...a voice crying in the heavens "And God said let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and days, and years:" GENESIS 1:14 "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handy work. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard." PSALM 19:1-3 http://www.atlbible.org/astronomy.htm "....Mankind walks beneath the most glorious record of deliverance each night, and yet most are totally unaware of this magnificent story written in the stars above. The study of the stars, and more specifically the study of the constellations and what they are saying to us, is not typically taught from the church pulpit today. Some even consider the discussion of such a subject tantamount to witchcraft. The fact that the Lord has warned us in the Old Testament not to worship the stars, and by so doing break the first commandment, has kept many from looking to the story that God has written in the heavens. The word of God does, in fact, warn us about soothsayers, fortune tellers and other black arts. Lucifer and his army of followers have always attempted to lure mankind into a worship of devils. If the destroyer of men's souls can deceive a person into looking to anything other than the true God, he has achieved his goal. Satan will take what God created for beauty and good, and twist, pervert, confuse and cover it, to try to turn man's heart to the worship of the creation, rather than the Creator, Who deserves glory and honor forever! Most of today's common knowledge of the constellations, even among renowned astronomers and so called astrologers, is totally devoid of the awesome spectacle of love and redemption which God has recorded in the heavens through the ancient zodiac. In fact, the word zodiac comes from the ancient word Zoa, which means "the path" or "the way." How wondrous is God's love that moved Him to record His word in the heavens, so that all could see. If God made the stars, and they are for "signs" (Gen. 1:14), it is logical to ask, "What are the signs He is talking about?" The wise men (magi) from the east who visited the young child Jesus must have been very assured of the signs that they read in the heavens. They were convinced enough of the star they observed in the east to travel a great distance by camel. These wise men were priests from the country where Daniel and the children of Israel had been led captive. Their culture was schooled in the study of the stars. Daniel was made chief and master over all the wise men and astrologers of Babylon (Daniel 2:48 and 5:11). Daniel could have identified to these priests the promise of the coming Messiah to be born of the tribe of Judah, and out of the house of David. God had promised a redeemer for fallen man. He first wrote His promise in pictures in the heavens. These pictures told the story in great detail. The promised redeemer, the Messiah, the desired of all nations, the coming branch, would be born of a virgin. Satan would bruise his heel, but the redeemer would crush Satan's head (Genesis 3:15). This is the story the constellations give us! The mission of Biblical Astronomy is to study and research signs in the heavens that are relevant to Biblical prophecy and make the research available for others to study and consider. In the next few years, there are many rare celestial events which clearly portray the "Great Tribulation" written of in the Holy Scriptures. If the events written of in the prophecies concerning the end times from the Holy Scriptures, particularly "Jacob's Trouble", unfold at this time, remains to be seen. Though earthly events seem to be heading rapidly in that direction." http://www.atlbible.org/astronomy/astronomy1.htm I'm not sure I believe in the "Great Tribulation"....the early church was in tribulation, but I just ran across this site last night, and found it interesting in light of some of the other things I have been running across recently. I am looking [or hoping, at any rate] for deliverance....401 years of affliction seems plenty to me, especially considering the Israelites were only afflicted about 160. Then again, it goes without saying, i am not God, and He will do what He will do when He wants to do it. Still...... ================ ===============
President Wilson signed the Federal Reserve Act on December 23, 1913. History proved that on that day, the Constitution ceased to be the governing covenant of the American people, and our liberties were handed over to a small group of international bankers. - Secrets of the Federal Reserve by Eustace Mullins
#47. To: Zoroaster (#44)
Didn't hear that but it nicely explains the overly broad range of dates given for the historically Zoroastor. I seem to recall there is a underground sanctuary in Turkey? that has maintained a Zoroaster flame continuously for for a very long time dispite both Roman and Christian efforts to "extinguish" the Zoroaster apostasy. Like several thousand years. Seems understanding the Zoroaster concepts of rightousness are essential to understanding the fundamental Shia Iranians mindset.
there may have been two Zoroasters, the first appearing about 1,500 BC, the second around 500 BC.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#48. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt, innieway (#24)
The Gnostics From their own admissions, the early Christians were incessantly under criticism by scholars of great repute who were impugned as "heathens" by their Christian adversaries. This group included many Gnostics, who strenuously objected to the carnalization of their deity, as the Christians can be shown to have taken many of the characteristics of their godman from the Gnostics, meaning "Ones who know," a loose designation applied to members of a variety of esoteric schools and brotherhoods. The refutations of the Christians against the Gnostics reveal that the Christian godman was an insult to the Gnostics, who held that their god could never take human form.16 ========== FACT: The "one world religion" will be a Gnostic form of Christianity. “Is Christianity to survive as the religion of the West? Is it to live through the centuries of the future, and to continue to play a part in moulding the thought of the evolving western races? If it is to live, it must regain the knowledge it has lost, and again have its mystic and its occult teachings; it must again stand forth as an authoritative teacher of spiritual verities, clothed with the only authority worth anything, the authority of knowledge. If these teachings be regained, their influence will soon be seen in wider and deeper views of truth; dogmas, which now seem like mere shells and fetters, shall again be seen to partial presentments of fundamental realities. First, Esoteric Christianity will reappear in the ‘Holy Place’, in the Temple so that all who are capable of receiving it may follow its lines of published thought; and secondly, Occult Christianity will again descend into the adytum, dwelling behind the veil which guards the ‘Holy of Holies’, into which only the Initiate may enter…” (Annie Besant, Esoteric Christianity, pp. 26-7)......" forgot about this bit of evidence.... Gnostism stemmed from the Jews, too, as I THOUGHT: ".... THE ALEXANDRIAN GNOSTICS Alexandria, Egypt was a center of interchange of religious ideas as well as the intellectual meeting point between the Jews and the Greeks. After the fall of Jerusalem, Alexandria would become the epicenter from which the Cabalist Jews, who had synthesized their Chaldean witchcraft with Neo-Platonic philosophy, would cloak the new Cabalism in Christian terminology and attempt to penetrate the fledgling Church with heresy. As the origins of the Cabala were documented in the Chaldean mystery religion, the Jewish Encyclopedia locates the source of Gnosticism in Jewish Cabalism: “But especially does Gnosticism testify to the antiquity of the Cabala. Of Chaldean origin... Gnosticism was Jewish in character long before it became Christian... Gnosticism—that is, the cabalistic ‘Hokmah’ (wisdom)—seems to have been the first attempt on the part of the Jewish sages to give the empirical mystic lore, with the help of Platonic and Pythagorean or Stoic ideas, a speculative turn; hence the danger of heresy…of which the systems of Philo, an adept in Cabala...show many pitfalls... “Jewish gnosticism unquestionably antedates Christianity, for Biblical exegesis had already reached an age of five hundred years by the first century C.E. Judaism had been in close contact with Babylonian-Persian ideas for at least that length of time, and for nearly as long a period with Hellenistic ideas. Magic, also, which,...was a not unimportant part of the doctrines and manifestations of gnosticism, largely occupied Jewish thinkers. There is, in general, no circle of ideas to which elements of gnosticism have been traced, and with which the Jews were not acquainted.” (Jewish Encyclopedia)......." http://watch.pair.com/mystery-babylon.html from THE BLOOD MOON ECLIPSE, THE MIDDLE EAST, AND END TIMES EVENTS http://www.freedom4um.com/cgi-bi...?ArtNum=75014&Disp=13#C13 HMMMM.....just googled WHY LEAP THEE, and the following came up....for future study for any significance..... 4um: The Blood Moon Eclipse, The Middle East, And End Time Events This is a leap year and so Adar 14 is called Purim Katan. ..... Gen 27:28 Therefore God give thee of the dew of heaven, and the fatness of the earth, ... http://www.freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=75014 WHY LEAP THEE KJV of Psalm 68:16 Why do you look with envy, O mountains with many peaks, At the mountain which God has desired for His abode? Surely the LORD will dwell there forever. bible.cc/exodus/15-17.htm =========================== Pope Leo was a cryptoJew, part of the ongoing antiChrist plot: "DEATH OF THE PHOENIX FINAL ACT FOR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ACT III. "THE DAWN OF AQUARIUS" another little coincidence [I believe Matthew 24 was basically fulfilled in 70 AD, but as all scripture is given for an example]: Matthew 24: For as the lightning cometh out of the east,and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. [see Ezekiel 17, John 15:1-2, Matthew 15:13] 29 (NOTE: my seminary Bible has a note to see Dan. 7:11...I'd continue to the end of the chapter.)Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, (NOTE: There is supposed to be a full moon at passover, but the sun, of course, will have set; and furthermore, the sun, which should have been shining, was darkened at the crucifixion. Will the full moon go dark? see Darkness at Full Moon? http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=76308 ) and the stars shall fall from heaven, (NOTE: "The Planets. Best observations from midnight to dawn...looking eastward.... **** eta-Aquarids (COMING FROM THE CONSTELLATION AQUARIUS) APRIL 19 to May 28, 2008...." http://myweb.westnet.com.au.astroventures/page6.html ] and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. [note: I have been giving some thought to verses such as this in regard to the concept of "rapture"....the dead in Christ will be raised up first....they will be changed in the twinkling of an eye....they will meet him in the air and thus will they always be with the Lord....I could see this as the raising of all the "sleeping" saints even back to the old testament times, including those old bones in Ezekiel 37 which are raised "a great army"....to do battle in the New Jerusalem perhaps? I don't know....but I do not believe they will STAY in the air but be taken to their new home in the New Jerusalem, which I believe to be Christian America....where the wheat and tares are about to be separated.] 31Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near even at the doors. 34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35Heaven and earth [note: heaven and earth to the Jews, was the temple and the city of Jerusalem, and it passed away with the old covenant for good in 70 AD, in God's mind anyway....the "new" world order is nothing but an attempt to reinstate the old covenant with the Jews at the helm] shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away........ Isa 65:16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; [ I AM the Way, the TRUTH, and the Life. No one comes to the Father but by me.] ] and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes...... http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Isa/Isa065.html#15 [There are TWO Israels in Isaiah 65...one cursed and one blessed. One chosen, and one not.] continuing on with this theme through Isaiah 66: v. 20.......brethren....from all nations..... v.21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites [See Rev. 5:9-10], saith the Lord. 22 For as [Note in Bible...see Ch.65:17, 1Pet. 3:13, Rev. 21:1]the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed [seed....see Gal. 3:16-29] and your name [new name, called after "the seed", Christ] remain. And [Bible note: Zech. 14:16] it shall come to pass that [Bible note: from new moon to **** HIS new moon, and from sabbath to **** HIS sabbath] from one new moon (March 7? Old Year) to another (April 6? New Year) and from one sabbath [Friday March 21? beginning of the Sabbath for the Jews and also Purim for the Jews, "Good Friday" for Christians, and the last full moon of the old year] to another [April 20? which is the Biblical Passover for Jews and Christians, as it is the first full moon after the first new moon of the new (Biblical) year], (Bible note: Psalm 65:2) shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the (Bible note: see verse 16) the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me (my note: see Ezekiel 38-39): for their (Bible note: see Mark 9:44, 46, 48)worm shall not die; neither shall their fire be quenched and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. [Last word in Isaiah, which is said to be a mini-gospel.] ================================= ".....JEHOVAH's new year begins at the new moon following the spring equinox...... The first day of spring, when the sun is at the equator, falls on March 20.The new year new moon falls on April 6, and the Pascal or Resurrection full moon falls on April 20. Moses used a solar/lunar calendar. The spring equinox (March 20) began the solar year, and the lunar year began at the first new moon after the equinox. The Passover—the anniversary of the Exodus from Egyptian bondage— was always celebrated on the 14th day of the FIRST MONTH of the Jewish calendar. The Lord told Moses: "This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you" (Exodus 12:2). This was always at the time of the full moon, following the new moon, after the spring equinox. JEHOVAH told Moses: "In the fourteenth day of the FIRST MONTH at even is the LORD's passover" (Leviticus 23:5). Moses kept the Passover on the anniversary of the Exodus in the wilderness of Sinai: "And they kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the FIRST MONTH at even in the wilderness of Sinai: according to all that the LORD commanded Moses, so did the children of Israel" (Numbers 9:5)....... The feast of the Passover and Resurrection was celebrated every year by the Christians on the 14th of the month following the new moon, following the equinox....It was the most important holiday on their calendar. Here is a quote from one of the Early Congregation Fathers named Saint Anatolius of Laodicea: " . . .Following their example up to the present time all the bishops of Asia — as themselves also receiving the rule from an unimpeachable authority, to wit, the evangelist John, who leant on the Lord's breast, and drank in instructions spiritual without doubt — were in the way of celebrating the Paschal feast, without question, every year, whenever the fourteenth day of the moon had come, and the lamb was sacrificed by the Jews after the equinox was past." Here is the reason why the Passover was held at the time of the full moon. Quoting again from Saint Anatolius: "But it is clear that in the Paschal feast it is not possible that any part of the darkness should surpass the light; for the festival of the Lord's resurrection is one of light, and there is no fellowship between light and darkness. And if the moon should rise in the third watch, it is clear that the 22d or 23d of the moon would then be reached, in which it is not possible that there can be a true celebration of Easter. For those who determine that the festival may be kept at this age of the moon, are not only unable to make that good by the authority of Scripture, but turn also into the crime of sacrilege and contumacy, and incur the peril of their souls; inasmuch as they affirm that the true light may be celebrated along with something of that power of darkness which dominates all." Saint Anatolius of Laodicea: In the ancient world the night was divided into 4 watches 1st Watch 6 to 9 p.m 2nd Watch 9 to 12 Midnight 3d Watch Midnight to 3 am. 4th Watch 3 to 6 am. When the moon rises after midnight — in the 3rd watch — the darkness is greater than the light for that particular night...... [ATKHWDI Note: Luke 12:38] according to Holy Scripture," the Feast of the Passover should be observed only between the 14th and 20th day after the new moon; it was a crime to celebrate the resurrection of the Lord at a time when darkness was more powerful than light, for after the 20th of the lunar month the moon does not rise till after midnight;....... Christ our Passover!! The great antitype of the deliverance from Egyptian bondage was the death and Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. This great event took place on the anniversary of the Exodus: "Now before the feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world" (John 13:1)..... Happy Resurrection Day, April 20, 2008 http://www.reformation.org/happy-resurrection-day.html third watch and the darkest time of the night...my ramblings....see Matthew 26:34,74-76....watch....Matthew 26:40-41.....Matthew 24:42-51....Matthew 25:1-13, to end of chapter.....Luke 12:35-48 [ 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will SHALL BE BEATEN WITH MANY STRIPES. 47 BUT HE THAT KNEW NOT, AND DID COMMIT THINGS WORTHY OF STRIPES, SHALL BE BEATEN WITH FEW STRIPES. [up to and just before the 41st stripe for some, and 41 stripes for the rest??? http://www.freedom4um.com/cgi-bi...gi?ArtNum=76243&Disp=3#C3 Luke 12:38.....Exodus 12:29, Matthew 25:6] For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required, and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.... see also verses 54-57. Dan 12:11 And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days. [fulfilled] Dan 12:12 Blessed [is] he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days [???? 45 days....count 'em...[from "old" new moon, March 7, to "new" new moon, April 6, and from "old" sabbath - March 21 = beginning of Jewish Sabbath/Purim/"Good Friday" to the "new" sabbath?? "Jesus is our Sabbath/Rest"..."Jesus is our PASSOVER", which begins at even on the 20th of April, which could mean He considers "Sunday" His new Sabbath....well, after all, there is that quirky verse: the "Sun of Righteousness will rise with healing in his wings"....]..... with the "inclusionary reckoning".... http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/feb2008/marilyna229.htm Including March 7 and counting through Passover, April 20, is 45 days. Passover starts on the "even" of the 20th, BUT the Jewish SABBATH actually starts on the evening of the 18th and ends on the evening of the 19th. WE would not count the 7th, and 45 days would end on the 21st. However, sometime on the 19th of April [Julian calendar, 29th on the Gregorian], the Jewish sabbath, is the day our bondage began, for that is the day they planted the cross at Cape Henry [Gen. 15:13-14/Gal. 3:16-29], and I would expect deliverance to begin before the 41st stripe....and before the darkest time of the night.....IF my calculations are correct, and I am not at all sure they are, it all seems to fit...."Can a nation be born in one day? Who has heard of such a thing?"] I don't agree with a lot in this article, but found this theory of the inclusionary rule interesting and edifying.] [still researching and contemplating, but posting this before the computer crashes] Mark 13:35-37 Watch and Pray! ================ [p.s. there is a discrepancy here in my calculations here, i think, and it has to do with the confusion over when Passover begins....my calendar says it begins on the evening of the 19th, but I have read an article which says that is incorrect, and that it actually starts on the evening of the 20th....I will have to sort this out. I guess it might depend on whether this "inclusionary rule" is factual or not.]....calling innieway....help! ==================
President Wilson signed the Federal Reserve Act on December 23, 1913. History proved that on that day, the Constitution ceased to be the governing covenant of the American people, and our liberties were handed over to a small group of international bankers. - Secrets of the Federal Reserve by Eustace Mullins
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