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Title: Obama Adviser Calls for 60,000-80,000 U.S. Troops To Stay in Iraq Through 2010
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www2.nysun.com/article/74207
Published: Apr 4, 2008
Author: Eli Lake
Post Date: 2008-04-04 10:26:15 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 4659
Comments: 86

WASHINGTON — A key adviser to Senator Obama's campaign is recommending in a confidential paper that America keep between 60,000 and 80,000 troops in Iraq as of late 2010, a plan at odds with the public pledge of the Illinois senator to withdraw combat forces from Iraq within 16 months of taking office.

The paper, obtained by The New York Sun, was written by Colin Kahl for the center-left Center for a New American Security. In "Stay on Success: A Policy of Conditional Engagement," Mr. Kahl writes that through negotiations with the Iraqi government "the U.S. should aim to transition to a sustainable over-watch posture (of perhaps 60,000–80,000 forces) by the end of 2010 (although the specific timelines should be the byproduct of negotiations and conditions on the ground)."

Mr. Kahl is the day-to-day coordinator of the Obama campaign's working group on Iraq. A shorter and less detailed version of this paper appeared on the center's Web site as a policy brief.

Both Mr. Kahl and a senior Obama campaign adviser reached yesterday said the paper does not represent the campaign's Iraq position. Nonetheless, the paper could provide clues as to the ultimate size of the residual American force the candidate has said would remain in Iraq after the withdrawal of combat brigades. The campaign has not publicly discussed the size of such a force in the past.

This is not the first time the opinion of an adviser to the Obama campaign has differed with the candidate's stated Iraq policy. In February, Mr. Obama's first foreign policy tutor, Samantha Power, told BBC that the senator's current Iraq plan would likely change based on the advice of military commanders in 2009. She has since resigned her position as a formal adviser.

The political ramifications of the disclosure are yet to be seen. The perception of a harder line in Iraq could help Mr. Obama combat charges by Senator McCain in a general election that Mr. Obama favors a hasty surrender and retreat in Iraq. But it could hurt the Obama campaign with anti-war voters in the Democratic primaries. Mr. Obama's rival for the Democratic nomination, Senator Clinton, has called for withdrawing troops from Iraq, but an architect of the surge has told the Sun that she has been wary of a precipitous withdrawal. In a situation with some parallels to this one, Mr. Obama suffered some political damage on the trade issue when he called publicly for a renegotiation of NAFTA while a policy adviser reportedly met with Canadian officials and downplayed the chances of a NAFTA retreat. In an interview yesterday, a senior Obama foreign affairs adviser, Susan Rice, said the Iraq working group is not the last word on the campaign's Iraq policy.

"We have experts and scholars with a range of views and Barack appreciates this range of views. They are in think tanks and like me they write in their own voice, they are people who do their independent scholarship. Barack Obama cannot be held accountable for what we all write," she said. Ms. Rice said she had not seen the paper, which is marked as a draft and "not for attribution without author's permission."

Mr. Kahl yesterday said, "This has absolutely zero to do with the campaign." He added, "There are elements that are consistent with the Democratic Party's approach, and I will leave it to others to find out if there are elements that are not."

Mr. Kahl's approach would call on the remaining troops in Iraq to play an "over-watch role." The term is used by Multinational Forces Iraq to describe the long term goal of the coalition force presence in the country, Mr. Kahl said in an interview.

"It refers to the U.S. being out of the lead, largely in a support role. It doesn't mean the U.S. does not do things like targeted counterterrorism missions or continue to train and advise the Iraqis," he said. "It would not be 150,000 Americans taking the lead in counterinsurgency."

Mr. Obama's policy to date also allows for a residual force for Iraq. In early Iowa debates, the senator would not pledge to remove all soldiers from Iraq, a distinction from his promise to withdraw all combat brigades. Also, Mr. Obama has stipulated that he would be open to having the military train the Iraqi Security Forces if he received guarantees that those forces would not be the shock troops of one side of an Iraqi civil war.

But the Obama campaign has also not said how many troops would make up this residual force. "We have not put a number on that. It depends on the circumstances on the ground," Ms. Rice said. She added, "It would be worse than folly, it would be dangerous, to put a hard number on the residual forces."

Mr. Kahl's paper laid out what he called a "middle way" between unlimited engagement in Iraq and complete and rapid disengagement. The approach is contingent, he said, on the progress and willingness of Iraq's major confessional parties in reaching political accommodation.

"There is a fundamental difference in the assumption between the Democratic approach and the Bush-McCain approach. That approach is premised on the assumption the Iraqi government wants to reach accommodation and what they need is time. The surge is premised on the notion of creating breathing space," Mr. Kahl said. He added that his strategy would pressure and entice the Iraqi government to begin political accommodation by not only starting the withdrawal, but also by stating that America had no intention to hold permanent bases in the country.

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#1. To: christine (#0)

A key adviser to Senator Obama's campaign is recommending in a confidential paper that America keep between 60,000 and 80,000 troops in Iraq as of late 2010, a plan at odds with the public pledge of the Illinois senator to withdraw combat forces from Iraq within 16 months of taking office.

It's not really "at odds." All one has to do is re-define the meaning of combat troops and *presto* problem solved. We'll just have 10,000s of "advisors" running around Iraq. Germany did the same thing in the 1930s "An army? Not at all. It's a state financed rifle club...with 500,000 members."

Still, it seems a bit hasty to attribute the rough draft writings of staff to Obama himself. I say go right to the source:

"As the U.S. redeploys from Iraq, we can recapture lost influence in the Middle East. We can refocus our efforts to critical, yet neglected priorities, such as combating international terrorism and winning the war in Afghanistan. And we can, then, more effectively deal with one of the greatest threats to the United States, Israel and world peace: Iran."

"My plan also allows for a limited number of U.S. troops to remain and prevent Iraq from becoming a haven for international terrorism and reduce the risk of all-out chaos. In addition, we will redeploy our troops to other locations in the region, reassuring our allies that we will stay engaged in the Middle East."

The road homes leads through Tehran, it seems. Along with anyone else who needs 'liberated' along the way.

"The more I see of life, the less I fear death." - Me.

"If violence solved nothing, then weapons technology would have never advanced past crude clubs and rocks." - Me.

Pissed Off Janitor  posted on  2008-04-04   10:58:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Pissed Off Janitor (#1)

It's not really "at odds." All one has to do is re-define the meaning of combat troops and *presto* problem solved. We'll just have 10,000s of "advisors" running around Iraq.

He also never addresses the Blackwater-types, who probably outnumber our troop levels. He's a politician; folks need to 'listen' what he isn't saying.

Obama, albeit using slightly different terms, agrees: "To defeat al Qaeda, I will build a twenty-first-century military and twenty-first-century partnerships as strong as the anticommunist alliance that won the Cold War to stay on the offense everywhere from Djibouti to Kandahar." - Sen Obama, June 4, 2007

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-04   11:01:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Pissed Off Janitor (#1)

"My plan also allows for a limited number of U.S. troops to remain and prevent Iraq from becoming a haven for international terrorism and reduce the risk of all-out chaos. In addition, we will redeploy our troops to other locations in the region, reassuring our allies that we will stay engaged in the Middle East."

the fact is, nothing will change in regard to ME foreign policy with anyone from the democrat party. the puppet will do the bidding of his globalist masters.

christine  posted on  2008-04-04   11:04:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: christine (#3) (Edited)

the fact is, nothing will change in regard to ME foreign policy with anyone from the democrat party. the puppet will do the bidding of his globalist masters.

It does seem like the same old march down the same old road, doesn't it?

Nothing short of a US bankruptcy will end the occupation/war, and maybe not even that.

Pinguinite.com EcuadorTreasures.ec

Pinguinite  posted on  2008-04-04   11:10:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Pinguinite (#4)

Nothing short of a US bankruptcy will end the occupation/war, and maybe not even that.

i agree.

christine  posted on  2008-04-04   11:18:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: christine (#0)

Mr. Kahl yesterday said, "This has absolutely zero to do with the campaign." He added,

"We have experts and scholars with a range of views and Barack appreciates this range of views. They are in think tanks and like me they write in their own voice, they are people who do their independent scholarship. Barack Obama cannot be held accountable for what we all write,"

What a concept! Americans allowed to have their own separate opinions. How different from the Bush Regime!

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-04   11:22:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Brian S, aristeides, iconoclast, Elliott Jackalope, Arator, vast rightwing conspirator (#6)

Please note reaction and my previous post.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-04   11:23:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Pinguinite, Pissed Off Janitor, christine (#4)

The troops have to stay in Iraq until the war with Iran starts. The troops are there to blackmail the American public into supporting the war with Iran and the whole Muslim world of 1.3 billion people. We do not have resources to do battle so what we can do is to nuke the Muslims (i.e.genocide is the plan.)

Both political parties are Zionist entities. It is not for nothing that people call our government ZOG (Zionist Oxxupation Group.)

The Truth of 911 Shall Set You Free From The Lie

Horse  posted on  2008-04-04   12:47:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Horse (#8)

If that's true, then what we should do is pray for a speedy demise of the USA.

Pinguinite.com EcuadorTreasures.ec

Pinguinite  posted on  2008-04-04   13:34:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Horse (#8)

This would certainly trivialize any previous holocausts. Time to build a bigger memorial.


From Two Party System... ...to Two Family System.

PnbC  posted on  2008-04-04   13:57:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Horse (#8)

Both political parties are Zionist entities. It is not for nothing that people call our government ZOG (Zionist Oxxupation Group.)

agreed

christine  posted on  2008-04-04   14:00:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Horse (#8)

Both political parties are Zionist entities. It is not for nothing that people call our government ZOG (Zionist Oxxupation Group.)

The only way to save America is to round up the tribe and confine it to reservations. It worked with the native American Indian tribes in the Nineteenth Century and it can work today.

Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.

Zoroaster  posted on  2008-04-04   14:01:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Zoroaster (#12)

The only way to save America is to round up the tribe and confine it to reservations.

The "tribe"? I'm not sure which tribe you're talking about, but I don't like this sort of statist solution no matter what tribe you're talking about.

I think Native American Indian tribes would concur with me on this. If you were among those confined to a reservation, you might not be so crazy about it either. And if were to bet money on who is likely to end up on a reservation I certainly wouldn't rule out either of us showing up on one.


From Two Party System... ...to Two Family System.

PnbC  posted on  2008-04-04   14:22:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Horse (#8)

The troops have to stay in Iraq until the war with Iran starts.

You're right. In reading about Obama's phased, systematic withdrawal (he gives no date certain) this morning, the logical question I had was where would they be withdrawn to? In more than one article I read, the answer was to Afghanistan which plays in nicely to your Iranian war scenario.

Obama, albeit using slightly different terms, agrees: "To defeat al Qaeda, I will build a twenty-first-century military and twenty-first-century partnerships as strong as the anticommunist alliance that won the Cold War to stay on the offense everywhere from Djibouti to Kandahar." - Sen Obama, June 4, 2007

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-04   14:26:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Jethro Tull (#14)

CHICAGO, Oct. 31 — Senator Barack Obama said he would “engage in aggressive personal diplomacy” with Iran if elected president, and would offer economic inducements and a possible promise not to seek “regime change” if Iran stopped meddling in Iraq and cooperated on terrorism and nuclear issues.

Obama Pledges ‘Aggressive’ Iran Diplomacy .

I can't say I've seen Hillary or McCain call for such negotiations with Iran.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-04   14:28:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Jethro Tull, Horse (#14)

The troops have to stay in Iraq until the war with Iran starts.

At that point, you can write off the hope of bringing them home alive.


From Two Party System... ...to Two Family System.

PnbC  posted on  2008-04-04   15:01:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: aristeides (#15)

Obama speaks to AIPAC on Iran

Obama, albeit using slightly different terms, agrees: "To defeat al Qaeda, I will build a twenty-first-century military and twenty-first-century partnerships as strong as the anticommunist alliance that won the Cold War to stay on the offense everywhere from Djibouti to Kandahar." - Sen Obama, June 4, 2007

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-04   15:01:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Jethro Tull (#17)

I suggest people look at the relative dates of his speech to AIPAC and his interview where he said he would negotiate with Iran. Which is more recent?

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-04   15:05:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: aristeides (#18)

I suggest people look at the relative dates of his speech to AIPAC and his interview where he said he would negotiate with Iran. Which is more recent?

What would a date have to do with the veracity of his comments?

Obama, albeit using slightly different terms, agrees: "To defeat al Qaeda, I will build a twenty-first-century military and twenty-first-century partnerships as strong as the anticommunist alliance that won the Cold War to stay on the offense everywhere from Djibouti to Kandahar." - Sen Obama, June 4, 2007

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-04   15:14:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Jethro Tull (#19) (Edited)

Well, I think a later statement is more likely to represent a man's current thoughts.

(And a politician's speech to AIPAC is likely at best to shade that politician's true beliefs.)

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-04   15:18:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: aristeides (#20)

And a politician's speech to AIPAC is likely at best to shade that politician's true beliefs

god know what's in the man's head, but what came out of his mouth is what will follow him throughout his career, especially comments delivered to the Lobby. He said all the right things to THEM, as all politicians (who get anywhere) do. Did you assume his phased redeployment would mean the troops would be coming home? I didn't. And these comments confirm it.

Obama, albeit using slightly different terms, agrees: "To defeat al Qaeda, I will build a twenty-first-century military and twenty-first-century partnerships as strong as the anticommunist alliance that won the Cold War to stay on the offense everywhere from Djibouti to Kandahar." - Sen Obama, June 4, 2007

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-04   15:26:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Jethro Tull (#21)

I notice you're not telling me which statement is more recent.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-04   15:31:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: aristeides (#22)

Dates aren't important, unless he disavowed and/or amended it, which is what you're assuming.

Obama, albeit using slightly different terms, agrees: "To defeat al Qaeda, I will build a twenty-first-century military and twenty-first-century partnerships as strong as the anticommunist alliance that won the Cold War to stay on the offense everywhere from Djibouti to Kandahar." - Sen Obama, June 4, 2007

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-04   16:15:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Jethro Tull (#14)

In more than one article I read, the answer was to Afghanistan

oh really, i missed that.

christine  posted on  2008-04-04   16:44:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: christine (#24)

For the Record:
Barack Obama on the War

March 12, 2007

Barack Obama is running for President and advertising himself as an anti- war candidate.

But the facts tell a different story.

Since becoming a Senator in 2005, Obama has voted to fund the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan on every occasion, including at least 3 major funding bills (see below).

Furthermore, in a series of recent speeches and a bill introduced in the Senate ("Iraq War De-escalation Act of 2007"), Obama completely rejects the demand "U.S. troops, Out of Iraq, Now!" Obama's homepage summarizes his bill, introduced in the Senate on January 30, 2007: "a phased redeployment of U.S. troops . . . a residual U.S. presence may remain in Iraq for force protection, training of Iraqi security forces, and pursuit of international terrorists . . . troops should be redeployed . . . to Afghanistan and to other points in the region."

In a major policy speech on November 20, 2006 at the Chicago Council on Global Affairs, Obama further elaborates his plan, underlining that "U.S. forces might remain in Iraq for a more extended period of time . . . dedicated to the critical, but less visible roles, of protecting logistics supply points, critical infrastructure, and American enclaves like the Green Zone, as well as acting as a rapid reaction force to respond to emergencies and go after terrorists."

Obama further insists that any "drawdown" or "redeployment" of U.S. troops in Iraq should be used to escalate the so-called "war on terrorism" in other places. Obama writes: "drawing down our troops in Iraq will allow us to redeploy additional troops to Northern Iraq and elsewhere in the region as an over-the-horizon force. . . . Perhaps most importantly, some of these troops could be redeployed to Afghanistan. . . By redeploying from Iraq to Afghanistan, we will answer NATO's call for more troops and provide a much-needed boost to this critical fight against terrorism."

How many troops would be "redeployed" and how many would remain in Iraq? Obama himself avoids giving specific numbers but he repeatedly emphasizes that his plan would implement the "recommendations of the bipartisan Iraq Study Group" which issued a report last December. The Iraq Study Group was built on the idea of a long-term occupation of Iraq by 70,000 U.S. troops.

Even Obama's promise for a partial "redeployment" of troops turns out to be empty. While promising out of one side of his mouth, Obama, provides a loophole, out of the other side. Obama's bill allows for the "suspension of the redeployment . . . if the Iraqis are successful in meeting the thirteen benchmarks for progress laid out by the Bush Administration."

No, Barack Obama's plan for Iraq is not a program for peace. It is a plan for a long-term occupation and a protracted U.S. war against Iraq. It is a plan for escalating U.S. imperialism's so-called "war on terrorism" in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

In short, Obama is a war-wolf in sheep's clothing. His empty promises and false advertisements aim only at diverting the American people's anti-war struggles and buying time for the warmakers to continue their occupation of Iraq.

Obama's Votes on the War

Obama, albeit using slightly different terms, agrees: "To defeat al Qaeda, I will build a twenty-first-century military and twenty-first-century partnerships as strong as the anticommunist alliance that won the Cold War to stay on the offense everywhere from Djibouti to Kandahar." - Sen Obama, June 4, 2007

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-04   18:00:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Jethro Tull (#25)

In short, Obama is a war-wolf in sheep's clothing. His empty promises and false advertisements aim only at diverting the American people's anti-war struggles and buying time for the warmakers to continue their occupation of Iraq.

Ensure a Strong U.S.-Israel Partnership: Barack Obama strongly supports the U.S.-Israel relationship, believes that our first and incontrovertible commitment in the Middle East must be to the security of Israel, America's strongest ally in the Middle East. Obama supports this closeness, stating that that the United States would never distance itself from Israel.

Those troops are never coming home.

"The more I see of life, the less I fear death." - Me.

"If violence solved nothing, then weapons technology would have never advanced past crude clubs and rocks." - Me.

Pissed Off Janitor  posted on  2008-04-04   18:15:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Jethro Tull (#25)

Obama further insists that any "drawdown" or "redeployment" of U.S. troops in Iraq should be used to escalate the so-called "war on terrorism" in other places. Obama writes: "drawing down our troops in Iraq will allow us to redeploy additional troops to Northern Iraq and elsewhere in the region as an over-the-horizon force. . . . Perhaps most importantly, some of these troops could be redeployed to Afghanistan. . . By redeploying from Iraq to Afghanistan, we will answer NATO's call for more troops and provide a much-needed boost to this critical fight against terrorism."

and there you have it.

christine  posted on  2008-04-04   18:22:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Pissed Off Janitor (#26) (Edited)

Those troops are never coming home.

If our forces revolted, they could load up and head north and hope they could go uncontested through Eastern Turkey to the Black Sea. Russian forces could come down and take them to safe refuge from the NEOCONS. That's the best case scenario I see. Who knows how many Amerikans/Iraqis/Others they'd have to kill to get out.

_______  posted on  2008-04-04   18:25:21 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: _______ (#28)

The way to get out of Iraq is to strike a deal with Iran. I'm sure they'd demand that we recognize their predominance in Iraq, but in return I do believe they'd assure our troops safe passage home.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-04   18:28:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: aristeides (#29)

Fuck Iran

_______  posted on  2008-04-04   18:35:56 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: _______ (#30)

How does it feel to be in the company of Bush, Cheney, and McCain?

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-04   18:37:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: aristeides (#31)

How does it feel to be in the Company of Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Ho Chi Minn, Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and other such trash?

_______  posted on  2008-04-04   18:39:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: _______ (#32)

You still seem to suffer from the misconception that I'm a Communist.

And you're apparently so confused that you lump in Ahmadinejad with the Communists.

One would think you're actually a Bush supporter. That's the kind of boneheaded lunacy he and his supporters would be guilty of.

You are in dire need of some education about the world.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-04   18:46:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: aristeides (#33)

YOU are the one shilling for the Commies on Freedom4um.

_______  posted on  2008-04-04   18:47:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: _______ (#34)

YOU are the one shilling for the Commies on Freedom4um.

Translation: I have made some postings that are favorable to Obama.

To people who suffer from your delusions, that amounts to shilling for the Commies.

By the way, the Cold War happens to be over. Did you sleep through its end?

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-04   18:48:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: aristeides (#35)

Dance, monkey, dance!

_______  posted on  2008-04-04   18:49:25 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: _______, aristeides (#36)

And what sort of creature are YOU backing (or at least hoping) for president?


From Two Party System... ...to Two Family System.

PnbC  posted on  2008-04-04   19:23:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: christine (#27)

Obama further insists that any "drawdown" or "redeployment" of U.S. troops in Iraq should be used to escalate the so-called "war on terrorism" in other places. Obama writes: "drawing down our troops in Iraq will allow us to redeploy additional troops to Northern Iraq and elsewhere in the region as an over-the-horizon force. . . . Perhaps most importantly, some of these troops could be redeployed to Afghanistan. . . By redeploying from Iraq to Afghanistan, we will answer NATO's call for more troops and provide a much-needed boost to this critical fight against terrorism."

and there you have it.

And that's the truth of the matter that those with family, or not, need to understand.

With mass job layoffs, where do you think the increased forces are going to come from?

"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-04   19:38:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: PnbC (#37)

And what sort of creature are YOU backing (or at least hoping) for president?

Personally, my hopes died with Ron Paul's campaign.

I suppose I realized we were 'surrounded' right before the 2003 Imperialist invasion of Iraq in 2003.

However, now my vote will simply be an ATTEMPT to register my opposition to the cabal.

May-be that I'll be voting for the 1st Libertarian candidate of my life. I'm passively interested in seeing the Constitution Party nominate someone like Chuck Baldwin, my personal favorite, or maybe I'll just support my local Constitutionally minded reps.

_______  posted on  2008-04-05   0:25:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: PnbC (#37)

As I have indicated a number of times on this forum, I am presently undecided between Obama and Barr.

I wouldn't call either of them a "creature". I would reserve that term for supporters of the Bush/Cheney/McCain neocon policy of aggression in the Middle East.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-05   11:49:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: _______ (#36)

Dance, monkey, dance!

That's the kind of gloating bullying I would expect from the denizens of Free Republic.

Has this site turned into a new version of Free Republic?

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-05   11:52:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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