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Title: Anti-War Conservatives for Obama
Source:
The Maverick Conservative
URL Source: http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/whalen/ ... ar-conservatives-for-obam.html
Published: Apr 4, 2008
Author: Richard Whalen
Post Date: 2008-04-06 12:05:07 by robin
Keywords: None
Views: 746
Comments: 52
Anti-war conservatives are rallying around ultra-liberal Barack Obama. He promises to “get out of Iraq as carefully as we went in carelessly,” and that’s enough for Andrew J. Bacevich, professor of history and international relations at Boston University. Bacevich, writing in The American Conservative, says: “Barack Obama is no conservative. Yet if he wins the Democratic nomination, come November principled conservatives may well find themselves voting for the senator from Illinois. Given the alternatives—and the state of the conservative movement—they could do worse. “Granted, when it comes to defining exactly what authentic conservatism entails, considerable disagreement exists even (or especially) among conservatives themselves. My own definition emphasizes the following: “Accept that definition and it quickly becomes apparent that the Republican Party does not represent conservative principles. The conservative ascendancy that began with the election of Ronald Reagan has been largely an illusion. During the period since 1980, certain faux conservatives—especially those in the service of Big Business and Big Empire—have prospered. But conservatism as such has not.” Bacevich, a Vietnam vet and a gold star father, whose beloved son and namesake was killed in Iraq is our generation’s Charles Beard. The Obama movement swells daily with traditional political figures of the first rank. Kevin Phillips, an old rightist, says he expects to vote for Obama. Another likely Obama supporter may be retired General Bill Odom, the leading anti-war strategist. In 2005, General Odom, former head of the National Security Agency under Reagan, called the Iraq War “the greatest single strategic mistake in our nation’s history.” A younger Reagan-era colleague, Doug Bandow and many of The American Conservative’s writers and editors are also leaning toward Obama. Are anti-war conservatives “disloyal” to the good old GOP? I think the endless War Party deserted them long ago. The conservative cause was the life’s work of the late Bill Buckley. And he, too, at the end, concluded that Iraq would destroy it all. Anti-war conservatives feel John McCain is the eternal warrior incarnate. Bacevich writes: “Above all, conservatives who think that a McCain presidency would restore a sense of realism and prudence to U.S. foreign policy are setting themselves up for disappointment. On this score, we should take the senator at his word: his commitment to continuing the most disastrous of President Bush’s misadventures is irrevocable. McCain is determined to remain in Iraq as long as it takes. He is the candidate of the War Party. The election of John McCain would provide a new lease on life to American militarism, while perpetuating the U.S. penchant for global interventionism marketed under the guise of liberation.” At the opposite moral pole of prophecy stands Osama bin Laden. He is confirmed in his belief that Iraq will become the open grave of America’s tottering financial economy. Iraq is the three trillion dollar war and we are still counting and borrowing from our nation’s rivals and enemies. Bacevich concludes: “But this much we can say for certain: electing John McCain guarantees the perpetuation of war. The nation’s heedless march toward empire will continue. So, too, inevitably, will its embrace of Leviathan. Whether snoozing in front of their TVs or cheering on the troops, the American people will remain oblivious to the fate that awaits them. “So why consider Obama?” Bacevich asks. “For one reason only: because the liberal Democrat has promised to end the U.S. combat role in Iraq. Contained within that promise, if fulfilled, lies some modest prospect of a conservative renewal.” I believe that for the U.S., the Iraq war has no attainable political or strategic objective and our combat role should cease within a year of the 2008 election.
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#13. To: aristeides (#11)
Who is to say that the local dictators in the area won't do that anyhow? One of the problems in trying to work things out are the unknowns. Assume Iran gets hacked off and shuts down the Straits of Hormuz. Assume Iraq ends up in the hands of a dictator and does similarly. Assume Saudi Arabia ends up in a coup (which isn't that hard to imagine) and does similarly. What then? Same situation, different method of getting there. So...who is going to open it up again? The USA? Russia? Israel? Therein lies one of the problems we have in trying to analyze this mess.
America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.
In Oregon, electing the Democrat is a given unless a Ronald Reagan pops up. Personally, I don't trust him. I get a very shaky feeling about him, mostly from reading his books and seeing how confused about his own identity he is. In a decade or so, once he has a chance to shake things out, sure, I'll consider him. Until then, I'm assigning him to the "underqualified" stack. You support who you think is best; I'll do similarly, and at this point, it is "none of the frontrunners".
America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.
My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man. Finally, whether you are citizens of America or citizens of the world, ask of us the same high standards of strength and sacrifice which we ask of you. With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own." John Kennedy, Friday, January 20, 1961 I agree with Kennedy's sentiments in his inaugural address. And if he were alive today he would be opposed to the fascist poison that the neocons are. We need to fight them and purge them from the body of politics in this country and elsewhere, and this should be done with no quarter given or compromise granted that in anyway gives aid and comfort to neocon agendas and goals.
Actually, the last election Bush had a chance to take Oregon, it was one of the short list of states that could go either way last election. Which is why I in my own check out the political landscape myself way of doing things discovered the serious fraud and flaws of the Nader attempt to get on the ballot being paid for by Republican monies to cause Kerry to either lose Oregon, or have to spend extra time and money securing it from going Republican and acted on it. I found the contract company doing it hired mostly junkies and homeless to petition, and used street ethics to make a fraudulent product. I was very much indeed the person who kept Nader off the ballot the last time around here in Oregon. And though Kerry was a horrible choice for the Democratic nomination, I still know he would of at least been a competent POTUS, something Bush could never do in a million years. It is to bad he lost. I say this knowing I would of been one of many setting his feet on fire pressuring him to end this foolish war. And I feel good about what I accomplished the last election here in my state. I will be here this time around doing much the same sort of ferreting around the Oregon political landscape this year too.
flipflip flipflop flipflop..typical politician. good post, peppa.
I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than vote for any of the three vermin in contention.
Rebates for Ron - Ron Paul For Dummies - New R3volution
Ain't it so.
Let's throw a pin sticking party.
Sounds kinky to me.
Rebates for Ron - Ron Paul For Dummies - New R3volution
Well you know me...
Is it any wonder that we find ourselves in this situation over and over again as the clock runs out on the Republic?
FOFLOL!
I agree. I'm an anti-war conservative and I won't vote for Obama. Because I checked his web site where he says that he wants to leave 'enough' troops in Iraq to keep it and to stage attacks on neighboring countries from Iraq. thanks for telling me of his tax ambitions. We've seen so many lies among our top politicians. we've grown accustomed to it.
1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
You're not really going to make us look at that for the next 7 months, are you?
Rebates for Ron - Ron Paul For Dummies - New R3volution
Let's replace Neocons with Neocommies and pretend like there's an ultimate difference for our nation. Sheer BullShit.
I'm going to start BOZOing the 4umCommies so that my head does not explode.
Sounds kinky to me. We should be throwing a lip-sticking party instead.
As you wish my dear.
It just makes so much more sense.
I'm looking for someone who wants to make $30 an hour planting tulips.
Rebates for Ron - Ron Paul For Dummies - New R3volution
Thanks. Elites 'play war' without consequence.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
I'm in. I'll even throw in some side benefits.
Sheer BullShit. Kissinger, Zbig = bookends. They prop up the Globalists on 'both' sides.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Sheer BullShit. Kissinger, Zbig = bookends. They prop up the Globalists on 'both' sides. Exactly. And we in the middle just get squeezed tighter and tighter.
That sells me. I have no reason not to trust a politician.
Obama, albeit using slightly different terms, agrees: "To defeat al Qaeda, I will build a twenty-first-century military and twenty-first-century partnerships as strong as the anticommunist alliance that won the Cold War to stay on the offense everywhere from Djibouti to Kandahar." - Sen Obama, June 4, 2007
Tell me you're fucking locked up somewhere with other slobbering psychos, puleeeze !!! Hahahahaha !
Guns don't kill people ... the Governments we finance thru taxes do
On this we agree completely ... I just don't think Obama is the gun. He's one of them !
Guns don't kill people ... the Governments we finance thru taxes do
Kerry's major mistake was thinking that "anyone but Bush" was a winning strategy. In doing that, he failed to differentiate himself from Bush and left the electorate with this choice: Bush or Bush Lite? Its no wonder that people preferred the original over the "I'll do everything he will do but I have better hair" carbon-copy. With Hillary and Obama, there isn't a gnat's eyebrow's worth of difference between them in terms of policy. Even Obama opines that is the case in the debates. I think Mencken was correct. America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.
Until everything inbetween, is eliminated.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Be sure that everyone has something with which to 'squeeze' back - many, many times.
sigh...
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Peppa, you have a propensity for the devastatingly obvious yet unspoken. Well done. I would like to state to our 4umResident Marxist-Communist that I admire that the poster has the courage of his-her convictions, unlike these other sleepers.
Well, I read the term 'bookends' elsewhere, and it helped click the pieces into place for me. When you step back, you can see it. The 'game' is to pretend that the left bookend has a different purpose that the right bookend...
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
I sense that they see it. They see it alright.
No, I always change that eventually. I was thinking of using ir next to support a stop to the legal lynching of Mumia Abu Jamal, but we'll see.
We shall see. As with Kerry, a vote from me is me giving him the benefit of the doubt. This country has really disillusioned me in recent years by the system letting criminals like Cheney, Bush and company to operate above the law and in ways that trample the Constitution. If things don't get better it won't be a case of whether or not there will be a new revolution here, but when.
The Dems were given every opportunity to rid the country of Cheney and Bush. They had a mandate and did nothing. They view the dictatorial powers taken by Bush under the false "Islamo-Farcism" threat as something they like ... there's only one party in D.C. We need to cut the shit and stop hoping for a messiah. We need to declare all out war on D.C., the Banks, and the Multi-National Corporations that are strangling our country. You and I have decidedly different opinions on a lot of things ... but we can and should find agreement against tyranny ... which is what exists in D.C.
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)
Cop Killer: How Mumia Abu-Jamal Conned Millions Into Believing He Was Framed is an Accuracy in Academia monograph that I’ve just published. The release of the monograph coincides with Monday’s ruling against Abu-Jamal by the U.S. Supreme Court that makes the signing of his death warrant imminent (although a separate appeal in federal court is expected). Accuracy in Academia will be distributing tens-of-thousands of copies of Cop Killer to students on campuses where the case has become “the issue.” Although the 38-page booklet contains more than 100 citations, don’t look for it to be used in any of the many campus “teach- ins” devoted to the subject or to be required reading in classes devoted to promoting Mr. Abu-Jamal. This is because it dares to suggest that the police got the right man. The booklet debunks claims that Abu-Jamal is a political prisoner like Nelson Mandela, painting the death row inmate as a wannabe O.J. Simpson—one who seeks to avoid punishment for a crime he did commit. A wealth of evidence points to his guilt: Five eyewitnesses implicated Abu-Jamal as the killer. His legally-registered gun was found at the scene with five spent shells in the chamber—shells that matched the bullet retrieved from the slain officer’s brain. Abu-Jamal was found wearing a holster. A return round from the policeman’s revolver was embedded in Abu-Jamal’s chest. When police arrived Abu-Jamal lunged for his gun. To this day Abu-Jamal and his brother, both witnesses to the crime, remain curiously silent on what happened. Numerous people report that they heard him confess—including an anti-death penalty activist sympathetic to his cause. “I shot the mother-f***** and I hope the mother-f***** dies,” three witnesses say he bragged. “I’m glad. If you let me go, I’ll kill all of you cops,” he screamed at a local hospital. Despite the evidence, Abu-Jamal counts scores of VIPs among supporters. Paul Newman, Susan Sarandon, Whoopi Goldberg, and Oliver Stone have fought for his conviction to be thrown out. Multi-platinum music acts The Beastie Boys, Rage Against the Machine, and Public Enemy raise money for his defense. France’s Jacques Chirac and South Africa’s Nelson Mandela demand his release. Abu- Jamal’s books can be read in at least eight languages. His radio commentaries air nationally. He’s even delivered a college commencement address via a videotaped jailhouse monologue. Since Abu-Jamal’s conviction, his defense team has put forth evidence and witnesses that, despite fueling the fervor of gullible supporters, have brought further discredit upon their cause in the eyes of mainstream observers. NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD On appeal, two defense witnesses testified to the dead acting in supernatural ways. William Singletary, who initially denied seeing anything, came forward years later and said a different man shot the policeman twice and when Abu-Jamal later tried to help the incapacitated officer, the officer raised his gun and shot him—a medical impossibility given that the cop was for all intents and purposes already dead. He also claimed that a Philadelphia Police helicopter circled overhead (none existed), that Abu-Jamal wore “a safari suit like the Arabs wear” that escaped everyone else’s notice, and that the policeman spoke after having been shot between the eyes. In 1997, Pamela Jenkins took the stand, claiming that a key prosecution eyewitness, Cynthia White, had recanted her entire testimony to her and outlined a police plot to frame Abu-Jamal. White, however, had died more than four years prior to the time when these conversations were supposed to have taken place. This inconvenient fact hasn’t stopped activists from claiming that prosecution witness White is still alive and that the states of New Jersey and Pennsylvania worked together to fake her death! IN PURSUIT OF THE REAL KILLERS A core tenet of the conspiracy theory is that several eyewitnesses saw “the real killers” flee the scene. Unfortunately for the defense, the accounts of these witnesses do not mesh with their story. One testified that Mumia Abu-Jamal was the killer and that he was the only person who attempted to escape the area. Another was angered by the defense’s efforts to intimate that she saw the “killers” flee when she told police that she saw people running about the scene long after the shooting had taken place. “No, I think the runner was part of the whole flow of the situation. There was a man killed. There’s panic. Someone was running, maybe two people are running, maybe three people are running, you know. There’s police, there’s news crews, etc.” Another of these defense “witnesses” failed a lie detector test. DID MUMIA’S GUN FIRE THE BULLETS? An article of faith among “Mumiacs” is the idea that the bullet that killed Officer Faulkner was a .44 caliber round, not matching Abu-Jamal’s .38 caliber revolver. Spent shells found in Abu-Jamal’s gun were all .38 Caliber “Plus P” ammunition, the same type of special high- pressure bullet that blew apart the officer’s face and was discovered in his brain. Ballistics tests on this retrieved bullet reported rifling groves that were consistent with the chamber of the gun found beside the suspect, a gun purchased by and registered to Mumia Abu-Jamal. Even Abu-Jamal’s own ballistics analyst conceded under oath that the bullet was not a .44 caliber round. To believe the story of innocence one has to buy into a conspiracy involving hundreds of people. One has to accept that the states of Pennsylvania and New Jersey acted in collusion to fake the death of a woman to keep her from testifying in favor of Abu-Jamal. Believing the story of a frame-up is to think that the police planted crucial evidence at the scene, including a murder weapon registered to Abu-Jamal. Accepting the defense’s version means that Officer Faulkner shot Abu-Jamal for no reason, that numerous eyewitnesses were coerced into lying, that blacks on the jury were tricked by the racist scheme, and that Abu-Jamal’s silence on this case—but apparently on nothing else—is just noble stoicism. Such a wild scenario might make for an entertaining fantasy. For those grounded in reality, there is no escaping the fact that Mumia Abu-Jamal, an intelligent and articulate man, is also a guilty man. -- Daniel J. Flynn
Obama, albeit using slightly different terms, agrees: "To defeat al Qaeda, I will build a twenty-first-century military and twenty-first-century partnerships as strong as the anticommunist alliance that won the Cold War to stay on the offense everywhere from Djibouti to Kandahar." - Sen Obama, June 4, 2007
Heh, damn Jethro I was just joking. I would never announce what I was going to put on a signature. I was amused at the comment about "are you going to make us look at that Obama logo all election season." Sure doesn't take much to get you going on Mumia in any event I see, but you should remember that even people of my sort of political stripes is perfectly capable of using dry humor. ;-)
If it would fit, I'd use this as a signature: Wait until oil shipments through the Persian Gulf are cut off, and see what that does to the economy.
#14. To: Ferret Mike (#8)
I am a skilled grass roots worker, and am going to work for him, the next nominee for president from the Democratic Party.
#15. To: aristeides (#10)
"The attack on Iran that Bush, Cheney, McCain, Hillary, and the neocons want will kill the economy real fast."
"In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its hour of maximum danger. I do not shrink from this responsibility—I welcome it. I do not believe that any of us would exchange places with any other people or any other generation. The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it—and the glow from that fire can truly light the world. 24 And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country.
Obama for president 2008
#16. To: mirage (#14)
"In Oregon, electing the Democrat is a given unless a Ronald Reagan pops up."
Obama for president 2008
#17. To: Peppa, Jethro Tull (#12)
#18. To: christine (#17)
(Edited)
#19. To: Critter. resistors here (#18)
I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than vote for any of the three vermin in contention.
#20. To: lodwick, Critter (#19)
Vote Republicrat or Democin, it doesn't matter, you still get McHillobama
#21. To: farmfriend, lodwick (#20)
Let's throw a pin sticking party.
#22. To: Critter, lodwick (#21)
Sounds kinky to me.
Vote Republicrat or Democin, it doesn't matter, you still get McHillobama
#23. To: robin (#0)
#24. To: Ferret Mike (#8)
Obama for president 2008
#25. To: mirage (#1)
Not this one
#26. To: Ferret Mike (#8)
Obama for president 2008
#27. To: Peppa (#12)
#28. To: Critter (#26)
#29. To: Critter. FF. all (#21)
Let's throw a pin sticking party.
#30. To: lodwick, Critter (#29)
Vote Republicrat or Democin, it doesn't matter, you still get McHillobama
#31. To: farmfriend (#30)
#32. To: farmfriend (#30)
#33. To: christine (#17)
flipflip flipflop flipflop..typical politician. good post, peppa.
#34. To: Critter (#32)
I'm looking for someone who wants to make $30 an hour planting tulips.
Vote Republicrat or Democin, it doesn't matter, you still get McHillobama
#35. To: _______ (#27)
Let's replace Neocons with Neocommies and pretend like there's an ultimate difference for our nation.
#36. To: Peppa. resistors here (#35)
Let's replace Neocons with Neocommies and pretend like there's an ultimate difference for our nation.
#37. To: all (#0)
“So why consider Obama?” Bacevich asks. “For one reason only: because the liberal Democrat has promised to end the U.S. combat role in Iraq.
#38. To: Ferret Mike (#16)
And though Kerry was a horrible choice for the Democratic nomination, I still know he would of at least been a competent POTUS,
#39. To: Ferret Mike (#15)
We need to fight them and purge them from the body of politics in this country and elsewhere, and this should be done with no quarter given or compromise granted that in anyway gives aid and comfort to neocon agendas and goals.
#40. To: Ferret Mike (#16)
And though Kerry was a horrible choice for the Democratic nomination, I still know he would of at least been a competent POTUS, something Bush could never do in a million years. It is to bad he lost.
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
#41. To: lodwick (#36)
And we in the middle just get squeezed tighter and tighter.
#42. To: Peppa (#41)
#43. To: lodwick (#42)
Be sure that everyone has something with which to 'squeeze' back - many, many times.
#44. To: Peppa, DrStrange (#35)
Kissinger, Zbig = bookends. They prop up the Globalists on 'both' sides.
#45. To: _______ (#44)
Kissinger, Zbig = bookends. They prop up the Globalists on 'both' sides. Peppa, you have a propensity for the devastatingly obvious yet unspoken.
#46. To: Peppa (#45)
When you step back, you can see it.
#47. To: Critter (#26)
Obama for president 2008
#48. To: noone222 (#39)
"On this we agree completely ... I just don't think Obama is the gun. He's one of them ! "
Obama for president 2008
#49. To: Ferret Mike (#48)
This country has really disillusioned me in recent years ...
#50. To: Ferret Mike (#47)
I was thinking of using ir next to support a stop to the legal lynching of Mumia Abu Jamal, but we'll see.
#51. To: Jethro Tull (#50)
Obama for president 2008
#52. To: Jethro Tull (#50)
Obama for president 2008
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