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Title: ARG Poll has PA tied between Obama and Clinton at 45-45
Source: Democratic Underground
URL Source: [None]
Published: Apr 7, 2008
Author: DU people
Post Date: 2008-04-07 17:42:11 by ghostdogtxn
Keywords: None
Views: 4700
Comments: 259

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 215.

#1. To: ghostdogtxn (#0)

I doubt Obama is electable in the fall, but I KNOW Hillary isn't.

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-04-07   17:51:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-04-08   9:37:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I didn't get the impression there was a big surge for Obama when I was in the southeast part of the state around Easter. It was non-stop MSM politics. People are sick of it.

angle  posted on  2008-04-08   9:57:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2008-04-08   10:06:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I think there's a lot of misunderestimation going on about Obama.

Rendell & Hillary are right. He can't win a national. There simply aren't enough guilt laden whites out here.......thank god.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-08   10:13:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

There simply aren't enough guilt laden whites out here.......thank god.

It seems we have a lot of them here.

They are all very quiet about the fact that Obama will garner 99 per cent of the black vote, " because he is black", very quiet.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-08   10:19:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

They are all very quiet about the fact that Obama will garner 99 per cent of the black vote, " because he is black", very quiet.

I think you're old enough to remember how much of the Catholic vote JFK got in 1960. Do you ascribe his victory to "Protestant guilt"?

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-08   11:51:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I think you're old enough to remember how much of the Catholic vote JFK got in 1960. Do you ascribe his victory to "Protestant guilt"?

It's so silly to talk about guilt. If I vote for Obama, it will be out of a very healthy fear of the warmonger McCain.

There is no guilt involved, just fear and anger of the CABAL currently led by the Bush Regime.

You may have noticed, the ZioNazis don't like Obama. Why? If he is just like McCain, why don't they like Obama?

Did you see the thread last night? T-shirts made in Israel that say "Who killed Obama?"
Israeli designs 'Who killed Barack Obama?' T-shirts

Like Buchanan said, "McCain will make Cheney look like Gandhi".

I don't know where this nonsense about guilt originated.

robin  posted on  2008-04-08   12:17:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

It's so silly to talk about guilt. If I vote for Obama, it will be out of a very healthy fear of the warmonger McCain.

For reasons I don't understand you've chosen to ignore countless articles detailing O's foreign policy as one that is closely aligned with the other two candidates. Obama's redeployment is to other ME nations and his adoption of the recommendations in the Iraqi Study Group, and the endorsement of it's co-chair Lee Hamilton, sounds like an endorsement of Obama as a custodian of continued homeland security (see Hamilton's 911 investigation).

So, given this, some white guilt is a reasonable assumption for me at least.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-08   12:36:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

For reasons I don't understand you've chosen to ignore countless articles detailing O's foreign policy as one that is closely aligned with the other two candidates.

You're ignoring the other major difference between Obama and the other candidates: civil liberties. Obama repeatedly calls for restoring habeas corpus in his speeches. The other candidates do not do that.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-08   14:03:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Obama repeatedly calls for restoring habeas corpus in his speeches. The other candidates do not do that.

My understanding is that he wants it restored for Gitmo detainees, as described here:

In an e-mail to supporters, Sens. Chris Dodd (D-CT) and Patrick Leahy (D-VT) announced that they were reintroducing the Habeas Corpus Restoration Act as an amendment to a defense authorization bill today. Last fall’s Military Commissions Act stripped detainees charged as enemy combatants of their right of habeas corpus. Watch Dodd introduce the bill on the Senate floor today:

thinkprogress.org/2007/09...eintroduce-habeas-corpus- restoration-act/

I can't assume he means for all of us at this point. Do you have a reference?

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-08   14:26:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Jeffrey Rosen’s TRB column in the February 27, 2208, New Republic is about how Obama would be the first truly civil libertarian president. That column really sums up what I like about Obama. As a libertarian, civil and fiscal, I don’t agree with a lot of his ideas, but I love his honest and strong civil libertarian bent. After the Bush 43 years this approach to personal liberty and privacy would be a welcome change.

And as far as government spending goes, I’m going to go out on a limb and guess he’d be less “liberal” than Bush. Sure Obama’s spending will focus on different areas than Bush’s, but in pure government expansion it’s almost impossible for Obama, or any other “spend thrift liberal,” to match Bush’s woeful record. Plus an Obama presidency might push the GOP to look deep into the dark night and find a core that seems to be lost in Rovian factions and coalitions. The Rove gloat of creating a generation of GOP rule died, oh, about two or three years in.

All that being said, I sincerely hope Obama wins either Texas or Ohio and forces Clinton out of the Democratic nomination race. Of course that would also involve Clinton conceding with grace. An outcome still in serious doubt at this time.

Here is Rosen’s lede:

If Barack Obama were to win the Democratic nomination and the White House, he would be, among other things, our first civil libertarian president. This is clear not just from his lifetime rating on the ACLU’s scorecard (82 percent compared to John McCain’s 25 percent). It is clear from the fact that civil liberties have been among his most passionate interests–as a constitutional law professor, state legislator, and senator. On the campaign trail, he has been unapologetic about these enthusiasms. In New Hampshire, I heard him end a rousing stump speech by promising the cheering crowd, “We will close Guantánamo, we will restore habeas corpus, we will have a president who will respect and obey the Constitution.” Has a political consultant ever urged a candidate to brandish habeas corpus?

Obama, the civil libertarian.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-08   14:39:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Obama, the civil libertarian.

A voting record to support that would be nice. As a constitutional lecturer, how does he square with funding an undeclared war, now knowing what he does about the intelligence? As much as his credentials are supposed to prove, he shrinks from his known responsibilities. A leader would lead.

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-08   16:04:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Found this interesting post re: Universal Healthcare.. thought I would share.

Maybe it's time to unpeel Romneys little onion too.

Hillarys Health Care Sham

You know, Hillary, we need to talk. Today you unveiled your shiny new health plan and I have to say that I am wildly underwhelmed.

First we need to get something out of the way. For you to proclaim that your plan provides, Universal Health Care is a decided misnomer. Universal Health Insurance might be more like it.

Universal Health Care is what they have in England and Canada and Spain and Germany and Japan and, well, every civilized nation in the world but ours. Its single payer health care provided free of charge with no need for interference by a greed-crazed insurance and pharmaceutical industry. Is that so freaking hard to understand?… Hillary Clinton yesterday set out an ambitious $110bn plan to introduce universal healthcare in the US more than 10 years after her earlier failed attempt.

And that would be great, if private health insurance in this country didn't already suck for air.

Senator, your plan is basically a national version of Republican Mitt Romneys Universal Health Care plan for Massachusetts, which has still left thousands in that state uninsured and even more struggling to make the payments on their new policies, which they are now required to have by law, but which may not pay them one thin dime should they actually become sick or hurt.

What you are trying to pass off here as some kind of bold new way forward is just another bureaucratic nightmare in the making, as the already staggeringly inefficient insurance corporations struggle to take on the millions of new clients and patients. That'll work. That'll work just fine for rich people like you and your husband and the Bush family.

Is there anybody here who believes that this plan wasn't conceived and dictated to Senator Clinton by passels of high-end lobbyists for the insurance industry? Yeah? Well, I've got some sports memorabilia in a hotel room in Vegas that I'll sell you. No, really, it's mine. We just need to go in there with our guns drawn to get it.

Found here: thinkprogress.org/2007/09...leahy-reintroduce-habeas- corpus-restoration-act/#comment-4081633

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-08   16:13:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Just FYI ping.

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-08   16:21:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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