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Title: ARG Poll has PA tied between Obama and Clinton at 45-45
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Democratic Underground
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Published: Apr 7, 2008
Author: DU people
Post Date: 2008-04-07 17:42:11 by ghostdogtxn
Keywords: None
Views: 3982
Comments: 259
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#211. To: Jethro Tull (#154)
For me he is a fresher voice then the other two who represent gridlock bickering and an adherence to their own special sorts of gangster-ism and corruption. I am voting for him because he represents the best chance of a decent POTUS. I came out in support more aggressively here primarily to encourage debate on the election that does not involve personal attracts and recriminations simply over one's views on the election and the people involved. I am pleased with how this thread is going by the way, and I am always for civil discussion and lively debate over forum food fights. I have been enjoying your contributions in forum too by the way. Even though we disagree on things, you are an intelligent, educated and thoughtful person with a high political efficacy. And this is something I appreciate.
From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure- track. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School's Senior Lecturers has high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined. University of Chicago Law School: Statement Regarding Barack Obama. When I was a lecturer at Yale University, I was often given the courtesy title of "Professor." Just as I am entitled to be addressed as "Commander", even though I am only a Lieutenant Commander (retired).
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Maybe it's time to unpeel Romneys little onion too. Hillarys Health Care Sham You know, Hillary, we need to talk. Today you unveiled your shiny new health plan and I have to say that I am wildly underwhelmed. First we need to get something out of the way. For you to proclaim that your plan provides, Universal Health Care is a decided misnomer. Universal Health Insurance might be more like it. Universal Health Care is what they have in England and Canada and Spain and Germany and Japan and, well, every civilized nation in the world but ours. Its single payer health care provided free of charge with no need for interference by a greed-crazed insurance and pharmaceutical industry. Is that so freaking hard to understand?… Hillary Clinton yesterday set out an ambitious $110bn plan to introduce universal healthcare in the US more than 10 years after her earlier failed attempt. And that would be great, if private health insurance in this country didn't already suck for air. Senator, your plan is basically a national version of Republican Mitt Romneys Universal Health Care plan for Massachusetts, which has still left thousands in that state uninsured and even more struggling to make the payments on their new policies, which they are now required to have by law, but which may not pay them one thin dime should they actually become sick or hurt. What you are trying to pass off here as some kind of bold new way forward is just another bureaucratic nightmare in the making, as the already staggeringly inefficient insurance corporations struggle to take on the millions of new clients and patients. That'll work. That'll work just fine for rich people like you and your husband and the Bush family. Is there anybody here who believes that this plan wasn't conceived and dictated to Senator Clinton by passels of high-end lobbyists for the insurance industry? Yeah? Well, I've got some sports memorabilia in a hotel room in Vegas that I'll sell you. No, really, it's mine. We just need to go in there with our guns drawn to get it. Found here: thinkprogress.org/2007/09...leahy-reintroduce-habeas- corpus-restoration-act/#comment-4081633
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Okay commander, Obama was invited to join, but he declined. This too was noted and explained in the link I posted to you. You claimed he was invited several times. Small difference, or just embellishing the fact? Maybe he was under sniper fire?
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Just FYI ping.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Before you crack a joke, you need to read more carefully.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
September 17th, 2007 1:47 pm Before people get all worked about this, let’s take a look at Hillary’s plan. She proposes a government subsidy of $110 billion dollars annually to assist people in affording private insurance. This is sure to grow as the health care corporation find ways of jacking up prices. Essentially, this is throwing more money at our already bloated health care industry. Right now, we spend in excess of 9% GNP on health care in this country. No other Western country spends more than 3% of GNP to provide complete health care for all of it’s citizens. Moreover, our halth care service, as measured against other industriezed countries for quality, doesn’t even make it into the top 20! If we implimented a Scandiavian style system, one with truly universal coverage, we could cover every Amercian citizen under such a plan for about 80 bilion dollars annually and provide better quality care. Ms. Clinton’s involvemenbt of health care corporations in her plan is no different than Dick Cheney’s using energy corporation in his secret task force. Throwing money at corporations for essential services is insane, it is inefficient, it is too expensive, and is ultimately doomed to failure. If you really want (and I do) universal health care coverage, the way to achieve it is to remove private corporation from the process. That would immediately get costs uder control and remove the enormous group of investor parasite that make money off the misery of others. Hillary ought to be ashamed of herself. — Posted by Mike Brooks thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.c...asts-clinton-health-care- plan/#comment-253520 Post #13: “I would also like to note that I am a fully covered working professional, but I still wouldn’t mind paying a few extra tax dollars (should it come to that) to live in a world where my friends and family who work part- time and entry-level jobs can live their lives without having to equate getting sick or having an accident with financial disaster.” — Posted by Ryan Golden (Brooklyn) I do not want my tax dollars used to promote ’socialized warfare’ via the heavily contracted and subsidized Military-Industrial Complex and the corporations that comprise this group. These corporations make huge profits designing ingenious ways to destroy people. Now that’s an uplifting way to spend your time, isn’t it? I similarly don’t care much for the idea of subsidizing the airline industry….socialist ideas at work here? I particularly abhor the welfare payments called foreign aid entitlements that are used as a tool for control around the world. The welfare countries that operate with their palms up for the US to fill with our tax dollars is repulsive to me. That is socialized government. How about the subsidization of corporations that operate illegally offshore and continually cook their books in clever accounting tricks? The government looks the other way on this club. The Cayman Islands??? Isn’t that a nice vacation spot? No one that I know is advocating FREE health care. What people are finding is that a single-payer, not-for-profit, universal health system needs to be built here in the US. I’m quite convinced that American minds, unfettered by the chains of corporate influence by private insurers (who really aren’t in the biz of providing care, rather they’re in the business of denying care to maximize their profits) can devise a sensible, fair system of health care that can and will provide essential health care for all our citizens. I would like to see this as a priority. Only when this item is taken care of, do we even consider the ‘applications’ of foreign governments for ‘help’ in holding up their governments. Let them fend for themselves while we right our sinking ship of state, first and foremost. I don’t want to read or hear one more suggestion by any candidate re: 56.September 18th, 2007 9:06 am Tiflitis at Post 50, really sums up how many physicians feel today. They are squeezed from all sides. They can no longer determine how patient care is delivered when they are second-guessed by some clerk in another state. The red-tape, insurance forms, and administrative help that is required to run a practice today is overwhelming. This is a direct result of Nixon’s ideas brought to birth through the creation of ‘managed care.’ Mananged by whom? All we heard then was how this was the panacea to solve all the problems of health care. This would be the dawn of a new age in medicine. This would surely solve the problems of having arrogant doctors think for one second that they actually know how to diagnose and treat disease. It would also solve the irritating problem of the public actually have access to a doctor they liked and who could offer them treatments and care, as well as alternative plans of disease managment. Why, the nerve of them…the absolute effrontery of physicians to disagree with some private insurance customer service rep. in an obscure outpost office. Imagine that doctors actually want to care for their patients in ways they deem appropriate! People get sick? This is not allowed by private ‘insurers’ because they are not interested in providing care, they are only concerned with disqualifying people through loopholes like “pre-existing conditions” and maximizing their own profit margins. Health care is expensive, because people get sick…face it. It is not an area of “business’ like manufacturing widgets, it is far too personal. This whole debate is nauseating. How about all Americans receiving a plan similar to the one our Congress offers to its members? Exactly the same. How about it? 57.September 18th, 2007 11:58 am All the plans are politically unattainable. We need something simple like the Healthcare Access Card suggested at www.healthcaresoundoff.com 58.September 18th, 2007 5:13 pm tiflitis @ 50 Thanks for your insights as a medical professional. The leading candidates’ plans do nothing to address the real problem which is created by the insurance companies. Those that will allow anyone other than their physician to make decisions for their health care based on profit margins really needs a mental health professional which is obvious their health plan does not cover. HRC’s plan just perpetuates the current disjointed system. I would suggest everyone who intends to vote based on this issue to ask the opinion of their personal physician whom they should trust more than a politician. I know from personal experience that making sure our medical claims are reimbursed by the insurance is a full time job for my wife. Most of the doctors we use keep on dropping the insurances and will only take direct payment, which puts the patient at the mercy of the insurance companies. I can safely bet I am not the only one that has tousled with an insurance company and it is usually over the same thing - procedures which are not covered, medications which are not on their preferred list, lost claims, incorrectly processed claims, layers and layers of bureaucracy, etc…. and all along the premiums keep on rising and the coverage keeps on decreasing. So for anyone that believes the “market approach” is working I ask - working for whom? Cheers, — Posted by Romulo 59.September 18th, 2007 5:20 pm hacp @ 43 The insurance companies may have trashed the '93 plan, and will for sure try to trash any plan that tries to separate them from the teat, but if a president decided to push health care reform to benefit the populace instead of the insurances, who would you back? Now remember, the insurance companies rely on your belief that the system cannot be changed Cheers, — Posted by Romulo "The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
There is no proof that he was offered tenure several times.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Monday I'm going to a hearing at the state capitol for AJR 51. It is non binding but calls for the repeal of Real ID.
No proof, that is, if you don't find an official statement by the University of Chicago Law School to be evidence enough. Oh, I see, you're objecting that he was only offered tenure-track positions, not tenure. I suppose that's true. I stand corrected. I was somewhat inaccurate. Yes, I misremembered. But Obama was not inaccurate, and my point stands that the University of Chicago clearly thought highly of Obama as a professor.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Good of you to admit your reading comprehension sometimes is lacking. I have been telling you about that for some time. Ahem.
And did you read the link I provided above about that? Oh, I see, you're objecting that he was only offered tenure-track positions, not tenure. I suppose that's true. I stand corrected. I only object when people embellish the facts. The facts are the facts, and apparently the legal community likes to make sure they're right, especially when it's about them. I was somewhat inaccurate. Yes, I misremembered. But Obama was not inaccurate, and my point stands that the University of Chicago clearly thought highly of Obama as a professor. That's okay. There's no argument so far that people consider lecturers, 'professors' UofChicago. As a lecturer or professor on the Constitution, I'd expect to see his positions closer to Ron Paul, yet, despite his education, and respect given as a lecturer, his PERSONAL politics are contrary to it. I did read that he considers the Constitution a living document. So, if that is true then, his politics support that. He sort of picks and chooses what he likes about it.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Yes, and I consider an official statement by the University of Chicago Law School to be better evidence. Especially when it happens to coincide with my own experience as a lecturer at Yale.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
I drove by Yale once, they told me to keep moving.
I would say they were being politically careful, yet were taken to task on known definitions by others as well. Your experience as a lecturer at Yale then should by extention find it important that accuracy be maintained. However, the law means whatever you let people get away with at the moment. It may be rude of me to suggest that as a lecturer at Yale, I expect you to have a fine tuned ear and eye for BS. As retired military, I expect it. I have 3 cousins now deployed, another one is home a year now (with an injury the Gov. refuses to treat). The truth matters. Spinning it to fit some world view that will not happen, is hard for me to understand and accept at face value.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Ok Ari you been shelved by an expert, admit it. I once met a gentleman that was a Prof at a large engineering school. Degrees by the handful. I mentioned I had a loser friend that graduated from the same school and asked if perhaps he had "loser" for a student. He turned red faced and flustered, turned out my "loser" friend had HIM as a student.
Not an expert, or a doormat either. Thank you though.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Oh how I would LOVE to see Hillary run as a third-party/independent candidate. Just so she can see just HOW unpopular she is nationally.
The title of this thread is really misleading now. A poll came out in the last day or so placing Hillary 18 points ahead.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
There's no guarantee. All three are sanctioned by the criminals at the top else they wouldn't be there. Obama is getting so much favorable MSM coverage, don't you think? His message is allowable. The whole thing is a dog and pony show to distract you and the rest from seeing and reacting to the horror that our country has become.
"Hello Rothschild's cattle!" ~ Deek Jackson
Pregnant man tells Oprah: It's a miracle
lol. Don't forget Britney...it seems she's seeing her father for a limited time everyday.
"Hello Rothschild's cattle!" ~ Deek Jackson
Thanks Mike. I'm certain you have me confused with someone else tho :)
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
Who rattled your cage?
I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party
Sure there is... The Peoples Democratic Republic of Congo. They like you a lot - boiled with garlic.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" FF, While this may be the lamest ill-sourced post ever, I offer this. On MSNBC this morning, some pub came out warning against the National ID/Real ID legislation. I don't know the guys name, had never seen his face on the tube before, but the hosts kept teasing that he was on the short list of McCain VP possibilities. That they connected him with McCain, is a red flag on it's own. That he is warning of the lack of evidence that such a card is not a guarantee of a more secure nation... It made me wonder, what *else* was in the pipeline. Something different than a card? These people don't do anything without prepping the public with what they want to hear to embrace something worse as the exchange. I wish like hell I could tell you the guys name, but I can only relay what I saw and heard. FWIW.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
hehehehe..witty ;)
Not nice scare an olde man. You have seen too many of the boiling pot jokes. Maybe Turtle would let me become an Ozarker?
hehehehe..witty ;) Not funny at all, scare an olde man. I will tell on both of you.
Well I can tell you that the Real ID Act of 2005 puts our state drivers licenses under an international authority with Canada and Mexico and creates an international face recognition data base that will be shared with all other countries. There is a requirement that all people entering the US by air be checked against this data base. Since face recognition is only effective less than 40% of the time, what are the odds of false identification? And we know that "terrorists" are enemy combatants held with out bail or legal counsel. Real ID not only gets us closer to NAU but a one world government.
That's a good idea. They got coffins there and like to have sex in them. Weird bunch I tell you.
God is always good!
Yes indeed. You are at a social gathering of uppity people, most are unknown to each other. One person "attended" Yale, how will you know who that person is? Not to worry, they will tell you.
Only if you marry his wife. That's how you get in good with the families down there.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" I only mentioned I was a lecturer at Yale because it was relevant to the discussion of Obama's academic status. Are we not supposed to present evidence of our personal experiences when they are relevant to a discussion? I bet you can't find a single other posting of mine here where I mentioned that item in my history.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
That's what the guy on the tube yesterday mentioned as well.. I think he mentioned that people need to push back starting now before some implementation begins in 2009. Real ID not only gets us closer to NAU but a one world government. Agreed. I'm sure all 3 candidates are FOR this.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Ari... I did not see its relevancy. My error.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest"What separates Obama from the others? This is the argument we've been having since RP did his duck and cover."
Obama for president 2008
#212. To: Peppa (#209)
(Edited)
The Law School has received many media requests about Barack Obama, especially about his status as "Senior Lecturer."
#213. To: All (#210)
Found this interesting post re: Universal Healthcare.. thought I would share.
#214. To: aristeides (#212)
Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined.
#215. To: JT, Hayek Fan, universal healthcare interested (#213)
#216. To: Peppa (#214)
Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined.
#217. To: All (#213)
Another interesting take on Universal Healthcare:
Here are a number of excellent posts regarding the issue, if you care to continue reading through them.
55.September 18th, 2007 8:49 am
Well said, my friend. I wouldn’t mind paying a few extra bucks either…that’s called community operating in the best interests of everybody. Tax dollars and receipts do NOT belong to the government…they are public funds that belong to the people who paid these taxes. That would be you and me. For those who insist that tax dollars and the federal government that takes them from us, shouldn’t be spending federal money on things like single payer, not for profit health care, I would ask you why you believe that this money is somehow ‘largesse’ from the government. It is not….it is our money, to be spent how WE, the people decide it will be spent. Government doesn’t have the right to exist in a democracy, unless it reflects and serves the will and the interests of the people, who ARE the government. Has everybody forgot their grade school civics lessons?
1. tax credits 2. tax subsidies as an incentive to buy insurance from these private insurance companies that are no better than professional pirates. 3. any involvement that uses the old model of private health companies like Kaiser-permanente, United, or the rest. Those companies must have their fangs removed from our new healthcare paradigm. Otherwise, we are wasting time and there is NOT going to be any change.
— Posted by Peter G.
— Posted by Mary Adams
— Posted by Steve Schuster
#218. To: aristeides (#216)
Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined. Before you crack a joke, you need to read more carefully.
#219. To: FOH, *California list* (#172)
Vote Republicrat or Democin, it doesn't matter, you still get McHillobama
#220. To: Peppa (#218)
There is no proof that he was offered tenure several times.
#221. To: aristeides (#220)
I stand corrected.
#222. To: aristeides (#220)
(Edited)
No proof, that is, if you don't find an official statement by the University of Chicago Law School to be evidence enough.
#223. To: Peppa (#222)
And did you read the link I provided above about that?
#224. To: aristeides (#223)
Especially when it happens to coincide with my own experience as a lecturer at Yale.
#225. To: aristeides (#223)
(Edited)
Yes, and I consider an official statement by the University of Chicago Law School to be better evidence. Especially when it happens to coincide with my own experience as a lecturer at Yale.
#226. To: Peppa, aristedes (#225)
I would say they were being politically careful, yet were taken to task on known definitions by others as well. Your experience as a lecturer at Yale then should by extention find it important that accuracy be maintained. However, the law means whatever you let people get away with at the moment. It may be rude of me to suggest that as a lecturer at Yale, I expect you to have a fine tuned ear and eye for BS.
#227. To: Cynicom (#226)
(Edited)
Ok Ari you been shelved by an expert, admit it.
#228. To: Pinguinite (#116)
...As a write in or is Clinton going 3rd party?
From Two Party System... ...to Two Family System.
#229. To: PnbC (#228)
#230. To: robin (#206)
The McCain years would be even worse.
#231. To: angle, christine, all (#230)
"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." ~ Mahatma Ghandi
#232. To: robin, All (#231)
"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." ~ Mahatma Ghandi
#233. To: wudidiz (#231)
#234. To: angle (#230)
#235. To: Cynicom (#226)
#236. To: Ferret Mike (#211)
#237. To: Jethro Tull (#205)
(Edited)
#238. To: Ferret Mike (#211)
#239. To: Jethro Tull (#125)
#240. To: Cynicom (#204)
Is there any country that will accept emigrees from NORTH AMERICA?
#241. To: farmfriend (#219)
Monday I'm going to a hearing at the state capitol for AJR 51. It is non binding but calls for the repeal of Real ID.
#242. To: tom007 (#240)
They like you a lot - boiled with garlic.
#243. To: tom007 (#240)
They like you a lot - boiled with garlic.
#244. To: christine (#242)
They like you a lot - boiled with garlic.
#245. To: Peppa (#241)
Vote Republicrat or Democin, it doesn't matter, you still get McHillobama
#246. To: Cynicom (#224)
I drove by Yale once, they told me to keep moving.
#247. To: RickyJ (#246)
Weird bunch I tell you.
#248. To: Cynicom (#243)
Maybe Turtle would let me become an Ozarker?
#249. To: Cynicom (#247)
#250. To: farmfriend (#245)
Since face recognition is only effective less than 40% of the time, what are the odds of false identification?
#251. To: aristeides (#249)
I only mentioned I was a lecturer at Yale because it was relevant to the discussion of Obama's academic status. Are we not supposed to present evidence of our personal experiences when they are relevant to a discussion?
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