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Title: ARG Poll has PA tied between Obama and Clinton at 45-45
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Democratic Underground
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Published: Apr 7, 2008
Author: DU people
Post Date: 2008-04-07 17:42:11 by ghostdogtxn
Keywords: None
Views: 3862
Comments: 259
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#1. To: ghostdogtxn (#0)
I doubt Obama is electable in the fall, but I KNOW Hillary isn't.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
so you think it's mcCain?
Barring a miracle, yes. A part of me wants McInsane to inherit this disaster. The other part of me wants to survive, though. McInsane may well end civilization. You can already feel it crumbling. But he'll probably ignite a thermonuclear 9/11 on the entire planet.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
It'll probably come down to who is the best warmonger. Don't forget how the media trots out the OBL tapes right before voting.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
wonder if the republicans can get away with the appearance of another stolen election.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
Really???? Dont bet the farm. Thousands of citizens did not switch parties to vote for Obama.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
I know of NO dyed in the wool democrat locally that will vote for Obama this month or in NOV. None, nada, zilch. They are such die hard party stalwarts that they will vote Clinton in Nov. regardless of whom she drags along as VP. Republican stalwarts have no stomach for McKooK and will stay home now and in Nov. or leave a lot of blanks. Will the white guilt, gender and homosexual crowd vote Obama and or Clinton, yes they will.
I didn't get the impression there was a big surge for Obama when I was in the southeast part of the state around Easter. It was non-stop MSM politics. People are sick of it.
"Hello Rothschild's cattle!" ~ Deek Jackson
Cancer may get him first. Enter RP.
"Hello Rothschild's cattle!" ~ Deek Jackson
In the real world of racial American politics, Obama has already won. Given his success to date, there is no way the Beast could be declared the nominee of the socialist wing of the National party w/o major social unrest. If that were to happen, the racist Rev. Wright, and those who think whites created AIDS to pare down the black populace, would erupt into riots, circa Harlem, 1965.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
Peter Beinart has an op ed in today's Washington Post suggesting that Obama's effective management of his campaign suggests that he would be an effective president: Obama at the Helm.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Rendell & Hillary are right. He can't win a national. There simply aren't enough guilt laden whites out here.......thank god.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
Gov. Rendell, white, Jew, democrat and governor of the State put it rather bluntly, regardless of polls etc, white voters will not vote Obama for president. Obama as dem candidate brings us McKooK, Americans lose regardless who wins.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
would it be wrong to pray for that?
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
It seems we have a lot of them here. They are all very quiet about the fact that Obama will garner 99 per cent of the black vote, " because he is black", very quiet.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
Plenty in both so called "parties". We received next to zilch support here for Ron Paul, the only non war monger, but all of a sudden the Obama chorus is loud and clear. Very odd.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
Well, at least you admit it. Score one for you. This talk about "war mongering" is just that, talk. a smoke screen to justify voting a guilty conscience because none of the three will end the war. NONE. You know that as well as others.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
Cyni, The Cleansed Ones claim a special political insight that ignores the black dual standard. As part of their guilt they willingly accept a seat on the back of the same bus Rosa Park rode. Take pity; their warm and fuzzy feeling will soon be replaced by shock when their kids become the brunt of the insanity they embrace.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
ghost... You raised the "war mongering" issue. Paul was the only man that would have ended the war, yet 4um gave next to zero support. Now all of a sudden we justify supporting Obama because he is not a warmonger???? Yet openly he says we need to move more troops into Afghanistan. why is that ghost, for what useful purpose????
And how opaque are the blacks that will 99 per cent vote for Obama because he is black.. Lets here what you have to say about them being racist, bigots or opaque'.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
Ah....because it's a D-selection process? When the rational thinkers in this nation are introduced to the real Hussein Obama (read my tag line), this selection will look like a George McGovern v Nixon event.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
Ah.......that would be because I refuse to vote.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
So state sanctioned reverse racism doesn't exist?
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
rah rah cheer leading does not count, money received counts. Obama received 2 million per day with little effort. Now we seem to understand from whence it came. " As for the troops in Afghanistan, it's a stupid move, a blunder, Lets discuss that part, have you given it any thot as to WHY Obama would want more troops in Afghanistan???
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
Who's bitching? White liberals have always provided me with an endless source of amusement. Please continue.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
Jethro ghost does not want to discuss the millions of blacks that will vote Obama because he is black. I find that odd.
Your non-answers are funny :)
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
would it be wrong to pray for that? I think so. Praying for enemies to change would be OK though.
God is always good!
The Cleansed Ones aren't capable of logical, direct discussion. In order for their universe to make sense, certain realities must be either ignored or rejected as racist.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
Remember Obama said he was a member of the “Joshua generation,” whose challenge is to complete the work of the “Moses generation,” specifically with respect to the rights of African-Americans. We should put a list of questions together and submit before their next debate. His position on mandatory 'service' needs some clarification. He supports 65K more troops and a redeployment plan, so does his committment to withdraw troops carry a deadline? December 5, 2007, 2:08 pm Obama Issues Call for Public Service By Jeff Zeleny http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/05/obama-issues-call-for-public- service/ MT. VERNON, Iowa – Senator Barack Obama implored young Americans “to step into the currents of history,” by not only supporting his presidential candidacy, but committing to form a new generation of public service. In a speech here today at Cornell College, Mr. Obama said he would seek to restore America’s standing in the world by doubling the size of the Peace Corps, increasing the strength of the Foreign Service and creating a national network – modeled after Craigslist – to connect volunteers to areas of need across the country. “I won’t just ask for your vote as a candidate, I will ask for your service and your active citizenship when I am president of the United States,” Mr. Obama said, drawing applause and a standing ovation from hundreds of students and residents of this eastern Iowa town. “This will not be a call issued in one speech or program, this will be a cause of my presidency.” Before presenting his proposals calling for a renewed commitment to national service, Mr. Obama was endorsed by Harris Wofford, a former senator from Pennsylvania who helped form the Peace Corps during his time in the Kennedy administration. As he introduced Mr. Obama to the crowd, Mr. Wofford said he had not felt as inspired “since the days of John Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King.” “Barack Obama has picked up the torch that they lit,” Mr. Wofford said. In his speech here, Mr. Obama also proposed to: * Expand AmeriCorps from 75,000 slots to 250,000 slots and establish five new “corps,” including: Classroom Corps, Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, Veterans Corps and Homeland Security Corps. * Increase the engagement of retired Americans in volunteer service. * Establish a goal of having students in middle school and high school contribute at least 50 hours a year to community service * Create a new American Opportunity Tax Credit to ensure the first $4,000 of a college education is free for Americans willing to complete 100 hours of public service a year. With four weeks remaining in the Iowa caucus campaign, Mr. Obama is aggressively courting college students and residents of college communities across the state. Today’s stop at Cornell College is one of five stops on college campus over a two-day stretch of campaigning. “This is one of those rare windows that don’t come around very often, maybe once in a generation,” Mr. Obama said. “As you get older, you get more set in your ways, you come to just assume that the world as it is, is the world as it must be. At your age, you’re still in the position to imagine what it might be. You are in the position to be the lever by which we move in a different direction.”
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
The key word is "redeployment". That does not mean bring the troops home, merely shift them elsewhere in the region. When Obama spoke of sending more troops to Afghanistan, that was not Obama speaking, that was his handlers putting words into his mouth. There is a reason to add troops to Afghanistan but not to look for Osama.
Any intelligent person knows that if he wasn't half black he wouldn't even be considered for President of the USA by the elite. Americans didn't pick this guy, mainstream media did, just like they picked the rest of the candidates. Americans are easily fooled by the talking heads on TV. That's why we will be destroyed as a nation. Too many Americans are easily fooled.
God is always good!
Why would I pay attention to anything a self professed Democrat would say to me? The mere fact that you have an association w/that wing of the Party tells me you have the political acumen of a bowling ball.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
Obama's 2006 rating by the Almanac of American Politics (2008) on Foreign Policy is 85% liberal, 12% conservative. (2005: 76% liberal, 15% conservative.) [39] His first major speech on foreign policy was delivered on April 23, 2007 to the Chicago Council on Global Affairs. He identified the problems the current foreign policy has caused, and the five ways America can lead again, focused on "common security", "common humanity", and remaining "a beacon of freedom and justice for the world":[40] "Bringing a responsible end" to the war in Iraq and refocusing on the broader region. "Building the first truly 21st century military and showing wisdom in how we deploy it." "Marshalling a global effort" to secure, destroy, and stop the spread of weapons of mass destruction. "Rebuild and construct the alliances and partnerships necessary to meet common challenges and confront common threats," including climate change. "Invest in our common humanity" through foreign aid and supporting the "pillars of a sustainable democracy – a strong legislature, an independent judiciary, the rule of law, a vibrant civil society, a free press, and an honest police force." During the speech Obama called for an expansion of the United States Armed Forces "by adding 65,000 soldiers to the Army and 27,000 Marines", an idea introduced by Secretary of Defense Robert Gates. In an address on national security to the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars on August 1, 2007, Obama stated that as President he would consider military action in Pakistan in order to attack al-Qaeda, even if the Pakistani government did not give approval.[41] Obama said, "I will not hesitate to use military force to take out terrorists who pose a direct threat to America."[42] He also said "As President, I would deploy at least two additional brigades to Afghanistan to re-enforce our counter-terrorism operations".[43] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol...ack_Obama#Network_neutral ity_and_government_use_of_information_technology
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
ghost... You be telling on yourself. LOL Anyone that contributed to Paul was bombarded day after day begging for more money, I received as many as three a day. Even after Paul took a dive, I received daily requests for money for his run for the Senate seat in Texas. So once again ghost, you be tellin on yourself here in public.
Lets not get into that again.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
That does not mean bring the troops home, merely shift them elsewhere in the region. When Obama spoke of sending more troops to Afghanistan, that was not Obama speaking, that was his handlers putting words into his mouth. There is a reason to add troops to Afghanistan but not to look for Osama. Yes, I understood what he meant. That dance was played upon the public that voted the dems in to end the war.. No, we're not going to Afgh, or Pak, for Osama... we are going for 'interests'.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
-much love. Just trying to keep his positions straight is a full time job.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
That does not mean bring the troops home, merely shift them elsewhere in the region. As the late Paul Harvey was fond of saying, "Here is the rest of the story." I didn't know Obama's full plan until I poked around and found the material. He bought the Iraqi Study Group's plan, lock, stock and barrel. And that plan, BTW, was hatched from an Israeli one that was developed in '82. Little did I know by simply offering it w/o comment, some would take offense.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
The fact that there are people on this forum arguing over which puppet they prefer is really quite disturbing. I really thought most of the members of this forum were above that.
God is always good!
Even more funny from a Democrat? This must be my lucky day. Thanks :)
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
Ricky.....they're Democrats. Think of all the Republican cultists on tFR. These creatures among us are just as goofy. Don't take them seriously, they're here for our amusement as is anyone holding Party ties at this late stage of the game.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
I among others considered ourselves to be Americans, no longer party believers, no longer conservative or liberal, rather Americans for America. As suspected this was untrue as it became apparent that the only unifying aspect was that we all hated Bush and friends. Now the liberal democrats come crawling out of the woodwork from their hidey hole to express support for Obama directly and for Clinton by extension. It is going to be interesting when Obama is willing to become VP candidate with Clinton in charge. These same people will in fact justify their votes for Clinton because of Obama.
this has been a debate only since the departure of Ron Paul. where are the large number of 4um's Paulites? if i may venture a guess. they're hopeless, burnt out, and have given up on politics.
I have always thought of myself as a Texan first and then an American. Right now would be an opportune moment for Texas to become a republic again. The problem is that then the leaders thereof would immediately begin trying to conquer the world just as the "leaders" this state sent to D.C. are doing. This is the fatal flaw of the Texan. He worships violence for violence's sake. Texas right now is one of the few states not in a recession. It's always been this way. I remember in the second half of the 1980s Texas being in a damned depression and the national media were constantly crowing about how it was boom times everywhere. Everywhere but here and a few other states of the "Oil Patch."
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
Frankly, I'm shocked to see you drinking the kool-aid. Not that I have any political accumen.
"Hello Rothschild's cattle!" ~ Deek Jackson
Yes.
"Hello Rothschild's cattle!" ~ Deek Jackson
Any discussion of Obama's statements or votes appears to be offensive. Such scrutiny is racist.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Right now would be an opportune moment for Texas to become a republic again. Sam... Well sir, you are one up on me. Texans fought on the morally right side during the Civil War and America lost. My ancestors fought for the blue bellies, so I try not to think of them. In my behalf however, my older ancestors fought and died in the Revolution, they were the good guys and America won.
He says so, but you don't know if he means it? Utter crap. I don't get where you're coming from at all.
"Hello Rothschild's cattle!" ~ Deek Jackson
I disagree about Texas being on the right side of that war. My namesake tried to convince Texans not to join the Confederacy. He was on record back then as saying he would rather the state go it alone as a republic again rather than join the doomed C.S.A. and, yes, he predicted its doom even before it began.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
Well, I think it became the debate when a few RP supporters used the Trotsky letter come out for Obama, and it happened in one post. That came as a shock to me, and perhaps to others as well. From a constitutionalist to a marxist/big government/redistributionist/commie and liar defies logic and perhaps intellect. I really don't think much time was spent on Obama before that, and McCain and Clinton were known entities, so it I guess it became important to learn about Obama, as he was the next best thing to Paul on the War, or was he? It's not about RP anymore, though I sure hope for a miracle, I'm a realist, or I try to be. I've seen a number of posts now that have expressed the same confusion about posters that jumped on the O-train... And, I have asked several times, for a case to be made to vote FOR Obama. No takers. Just spin and accusations that 'we' must want McCain. How they make that trip, I don't know either.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
They are in remisiion as this "much ado about nothing" unfolds.
"Hello Rothschild's cattle!" ~ Deek Jackson
Troops in Afghanistan. There is a reason they are there, there is a reason Obama was told that was his position. Obamas military expertise is totally lacking so that proposal is not his military strategy.
My opinion is that if the South had won the Civil War, Texas would not be in the position they now hold. Secession would be nice about now.
It's his miltary strategy if they say it's his military strategy.
"Hello Rothschild's cattle!" ~ Deek Jackson
And it is explained here: "The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Thank you.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
You peeked and saw Brzezinski behind the curtain?????
As usual you did you homework and this quote is correct. Many people here refuse to look beyond Iraq, at what is unfolding before their eyes, much larger affairs are in the works by this government and it has 'not a damned thing to do with party politics".
would it be wrong to pray for that Only if, as events unfold, it doesn't shake your faith.
I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party
here's one of the many articles that were posted last week that you missed. http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi? ArtNum=77477&Disp=40#C40 note Obama's reference to 911
This tactic by guilt laden whites has been adopted from the black radical handbook. For now they're useful idiots.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
Thank you. Many people here refuse to look beyond Iraq, at what is unfolding before their eyes, much larger affairs are in the works by this government and it has 'not a damned thing to do with party politics". I can only conclude, it's about perceived freebies. As our abilities to fund the government are eliminated, we sit with a $9T debt, the entitlement Titanic pointed straight at us, and never ending wars are declared, one wonders, how are we going to pay for it? If such needs for free healthcare is the largest concern, then I suggest they utilize the mechanism in place, enlist and see how they like the care there.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
I think you're old enough to remember how much of the Catholic vote JFK got in 1960. Do you ascribe his victory to "Protestant guilt"?
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
There's only one poster I've seen that said, I'm voting for O because he's black. And he has made it clear why. Honesty is refreshing.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
I wonder if by changing Obama to McCain in the above statement, it will dawn on the O'philes that he's just more of the same?
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
90% of that 99% would have voted for whomever the Democrats nominated, Get over it, Mr Duke.
I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party
Ah....ari my boy......the Catholic vote that went to JFK was the traditional Democrat vote, as most Catholics then, and now, remain Ds and political clueless. Nice try, tho.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
I know of whom you speak, and yes it's refreshing, but, that same poster would say nasty things about a white who did the same. That would be an example of the reverse racism he refuses to acknowledge.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
Can't wait to see how amused you are when the white plutocrap depression comes down.
I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party
The black vote that Obama will get is also traditionally Democratic, as most blacks then, and now, remain Ds. Thank you for making my point for me. There's no difference between how Catholics then voted for JFK, and how blacks today support Obama.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Translation please.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
Geeeeeze. Does anyone know when we fell down the rabbit hole?
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Sure there is a difference. Black Ds were Clintonites until a fellow black came into the mix. See? To them it's all about race, my fine diversity-loving friend.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
It's so silly to talk about guilt. If I vote for Obama, it will be out of a very healthy fear of the warmonger McCain. There is no guilt involved, just fear and anger of the CABAL currently led by the Bush Regime. You may have noticed, the ZioNazis don't like Obama. Why? If he is just like McCain, why don't they like Obama? Did you see the thread last night? T-shirts made in Israel that say "Who killed Obama?" Like Buchanan said, "McCain will make Cheney look like Gandhi". I don't know where this nonsense about guilt originated.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
It began w/socialism and has since wormed its way into the marrow of the white progressive. I wish I could drink their Kool Aid but reality always gets in my way.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
I see.. Same here.. Maybe their Koo "The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
For reasons I don't understand you've chosen to ignore countless articles detailing O's foreign policy as one that is closely aligned with the other two candidates. Obama's redeployment is to other ME nations and his adoption of the recommendations in the Iraqi Study Group, and the endorsement of it's co-chair Lee Hamilton, sounds like an endorsement of Obama as a custodian of continued homeland security (see Hamilton's 911 investigation). So, given this, some white guilt is a reasonable assumption for me at least.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
They think (and maybe rightfully so) that they have us over a barrel. If a dem wins, they inherit and get blamed for the mess in addition to obeying their masters. If McWar wins, the neocons will be even more emboldened to act on their "mandate."
"Hello Rothschild's cattle!" ~ Deek Jackson
He didn't mean it.
"Hello Rothschild's cattle!" ~ Deek Jackson
I assume you're talking about national ZioNazis, and nobody associated w/the forum?
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
Good tagline. Clearly he's supporting McCain.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
As for WHY Obama wants more troops in Afghanistan, I don't know that he really does. He says so, but you don't know if he means it? Utter crap. I don't get where you're coming from at all. So you take a politician at his word during campaign season? Me, not so much. If you don't take him at his word, how did you conclude he would be less of a disaster than the other 2? Was it is voting record? I am seriously trying to understand how some have come to this conclusion. Maybe it's just a 'feeling'... please elaborate!
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Those of us who have shucked off their party affiliations are more politically evolved than you are. Until you're able to liberate yourself from that coating you choose to wear, you will remain a political neophyte. Other than that closed mindset, you're OK.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
I agree. Insane doesn't have the support. He's too close to the current Bush admin who's approval ratings are in the toilet. He openly wants more war when it's extremely unpopular. And the economy will continue to tank between now and November and he'll have no answers to campaign with.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
They are such die hard party stalwarts that they will vote Clinton in Nov. regardless of whom she drags along as VP. As a write in or is Clinton going 3rd party? Clinton's history and she knows it, but doesn't want to face the truth yet.
They are polling Cain vs Obama and Obama hasn't even secured the D nomination yet. Once he does (and he will) his credibility will go up and his poll numbers will go up with it.
First, its not a concept it's a fact, and his son Mark is also an advisor, and yes it's very scary. Second, to follow along here, you say critics lapped up a movie and it was accepted by MOST Americans. I don't know that that's true, and I haven't seen the movie myself to agree or disagree... but you are suggesting that most Americans then embrace whatever it was in the movie, and that's good enough to keep on doing the same? How does this connect with Obama's policy? I liked the Godfather movies, but didn't conclude that it was okay embrace the criminal empire.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
WASHINGTON - The United States must add at least 7,000 troops in Afghanistan, double foreign aid spending to $50 billion, and be prepared to strike unilaterally against terrorist sanctuaries in Pakistan, Senator Barack Obama of Illinois said yesterday in a major speech laying out his counterterrorism plan. ************ Byline: Margaret Talev WASHINGTON _ Democrat Barack Obama said Wednesday that if he were president and had good intelligence about top terrorists in Pakistan, he'd send U.S. troops to hunt them down if Pakistan's government wouldn't do it. Seeking to establish his foreign-policy credentials a week after Democratic front-runner Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., accused him of being naive for being willing to talk with the leaders of hostile nations without preconditions, the first-term Illinois senator gave a comprehensive speech on fighting global terrorism before the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars in Washington. Obama called for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq and redeploying at least two more brigades to Afghanistan, along with $1 billion in additional nonmilitary aid. He reiterated a willingness to talk with leaders from nations such as Iran, Syria and North Korea: "The lesson of the Bush years is that not talking does not work. Go down the list of countries we've ignored and see how successful that strategy has been." But his controversial words about Pakistan _ where Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida has been regrouping, according to the latest National Intelligence Estimate _ drew the most attention. Obama said he'd make hundreds of millions of dollars in U.S. military aid to Pakistan conditional on President Pervez Musharraf moving to shutter terrorism training camps, preventing terrorists from hiding in his country and stopping the Taliban from running back and forth across the border to attack in Afghanistan. "I understand that President Musharraf has his own challenges," Obama said. "But let me make this clear: There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. ... If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf will not act, we will." ********** OELWEIN, Iowa - The U.S. should shift troops from Iraq to pursue al- Qaida along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border, Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Saturday. He said President Bush's war-fighting policies have left the United States at greater risk from terrorists. The first-term Illinois senator said decisions by the Republican president had allowed Osama bin Laden and his deputies to elude capture. "We cannot win a war against the terrorists if we're on the wrong battlefield," Obama said. "America must urgently begin deploying from Iraq and take the fight more effectively to the enemy's home by destroying al- Qaida's leadership along the Afghan-Pakistan border, eliminating their command and control networks and disrupting their funding." Obama spoke during his 15th trip to Iowa, where precinct caucuses set for January begin the presidential nominating process. He opened his day with a rally on the shores of a lake in Oelwein before his later stops. The senator focused on the threat of terrorism just days after a new U.S. intelligence assessment warned that al-Qaida has succeeded in rebuilding its strength. "What I would say is that as a consequence of bad decisions we are more at risk and less safe than we should have been at this point, given all the resources we have spent and the U.S. lives that have been lost," Obama said. Obama contended the Bush administration erred by choosing to fight in Iraq rather than concentrating on Afghanistan, where he said al-Qaida has rebuilt itself. "They have entirely regrouped along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border," Obama said. "The threat of terrorism has actually increased and we've seen a massive spike in terrorist activity, in part because we did not finish the job in Afghanistan and were distracted by a war of choice in Iraq." I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
Frankly, I'm surprised to hear this kool-aid nonsense coming out of your mouth, as well as the "lesser of evils, weevils ..etc" coming from others. IMO, Obama is head and shoulders above the other two in intellect, decency and background ... not to mention his inclination to promote bi-partisanship in congress and harmony amongst the citizenry as opposed to the hate-filled divisiveness which is the legacy of two decades of hate-radio and anonymous web chatter.
I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
Uhhhhh..... no, not at all, seeing how the net gain in lives saved would go up dramatically.
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
Wow, thanks for the fact filled post. I'm sure cleared up the confusion we're having with his past and present statements.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
As long as you remain confused it's my mission to correct.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
????????????
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
So basically, without a record and believing what you don't see is proof that he is not bought and sold, you just sort of feel that his is better choice. To excuse his non-voting record as okay because it's politically smart to keep everyone guessing is giving the guy a blank check with your life. This to me, hooks you a position to support him no matter what he does for purposes of loyalty to his success at the possible expense to your own.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
Obama's gotta get past the Dem party elite to secure the nomination first. that won't happen unless he's the selection.
I think there is a new political category called 'good ju-ju'. You don't know how you got there, but you know it when you feel it.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
Counselor, I just noticed my bozo number bounced up by 1. Could that be you who did this?
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
Yes, like the Israeli designer of that t-shirt I mention in the same post.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
Clinton is toast. And Obama might well be smart enough to leave the Clinton luggage in the baggage claim. He has to know that many R's are very upset with McCain having the R ticket, and the one thing that could keep them from voting for him is "VP Hillary". He'd probably be best off picking a moderate with some christian type values. It'll be a white guy so his campaign won't be screaming "Minority Revolution!"
Gotcha.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
I believe they will obey in a different, less destructive way. The Clinton years were bad, they were awful, but not as bad as the Bush years. Would an Al Gore presidency have been different? Yes, IMO. And I would have found much wrong with it, I'm sure.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
A lot are still active. Someone's approached me about having a couple RP dedicated forums (no commitment yet), and RPers seem to be infiltrating the ranks for the R convention, as posted here I think yesterday.
I did not ignore those articles, and I appreciate you posting them, as critical, opposing views should always be heard. We all learn from them. I learned that Obama is still not as bad as the warmonger McCain, but not as pure as some Dems believe. OTOH, you came away with the idea that Obama is just like the rest of 'em. If he is just like McCain, why doesn't Izzy like Obama?
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
It's okay, I've been called worse, and I sleep okay. ;) You mentioned above: look how the critics lapped up "Charlie Wilson's War". That was an unapologetic ode to Zbigniew Breszinski's policies that would have made Monica Lewinski blush from under the table, and yet it was accepted non critically by most Americans. I tried to understand the logic of it, but apparently fell short. Can you help me understand what you meant? I've accepted reluctantly that we are down to 3 likely candidates for president. Obama, Clinton or McCain is going to inherit the expanded and ghastly powers of "Free World's Slavemaster". Who do you want to see in that office, among the 3? If you disagree that we're down to 3, please explain how that can be? Same here. There are 3. I will not vote for any of them, at all, no matter what happens from now till November, I reject all three. And their are many many reasons, but one huge common denominator is that all three are or are controlled by the CFR, that is intent on a one-world government controlled by pure evil beings. To all three, I say, I won't vote for our own suicide. I don't know if that helps.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Fortunately you don't have to be a "guilt laden White" to know he is the best candidate of the three the system offers. I could of re-registered as a Democrat to vote for him in the primary, but I didn't. I am a Green, not a Democrat. I ultimately want someone fare better then Obama to be POTUS; someone who doesn't belong to either half of the current one party running things. The system is co-opted and broken. It does not run as the founders intended and has become owned by too few of the wrong people. But I will vote for the least objectionable candidate and keep hoping that martial law and a war against "American insurgents" doesn't develop. I vote for the candidate I feel is the most vulnerable to pressure from dissidents to make right choices. I got over thinking I would see a competent POTUS that is the true choice of the American people in an unmanipulated election long ago. I put my choice out here mostly in response to bullying of people supporting Obama and ad hominem attacks against them instead of people arguing in good faith without the character assassination. As far as race goes, it's importance has always been over exaggerated. When I look at any person I see a human being first and foremost. Race is only as important as bigotry drives it to be, nothing more. I am glad he is doing so well in Pennsylvania, but I don't trust the system and won't believe it until I see the tallies come in. I believe McCain will get the same manipulate the vote attempt at a win Bush got twice and which was used to marginalized and neutralize Ron Paul whom I would very much support over Obama despite strong ideological differences I have with him. If those in power could no longer twist the result of the election, then Bush would keep it from happening, they do not intend on giving up power without a fight. And if Obama gets in and shows the same fierce independence and unwillingness to accede to the desires of this shadow government group running things, they would shoot him just as brutally and quickly as they did John Kennedy. I know how unstable and volatile the situation is. But I am going to stay in there nominally supporting the process going on, because when and if the facade comes off and martial law is declared I want to survive the first round-ups of people to the FEMA camps. And I want to make sure I do because my core notion is the Constitution and the ideas behind it should not ever go quietly. I am prepared to survive, and to fight for what I believe. But I am not going to belittle and browbeat people still trying to make the system work. Working through problems and bringing elections back to the people for them to make the choice is preferable to seeing martial law and an insurgency develop with people dying and imprisoned as they try to keep the revolution of 1776 alive. That is why I take the stance I do. It isn't because Obama has African heritage to him. Race and gender should never keep someone from being president, conversely they should never be elected solely to put someone of a different race and gender then has been in that office either.
You're ignoring the other major difference between Obama and the other candidates: civil liberties. Obama repeatedly calls for restoring habeas corpus in his speeches. The other candidates do not do that.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
The Catholics who voted for JFK in the 1960 primaries (as most of them did) had mostly voted for Adlai Stevenson in '52 and '56. (A lot of Catholics had voted for Eisenhower in those elections, but most of those Catholics did not vote in the Democratic primaries in 1960.) Stevenson was one of the Democrats running for the nomination in 1960. Again, no difference. I remember. I was a Catholic Irish-American who (mistakenly) supported Nixon that year (mainly out of resentment of how it seemed to be expected that I should support JFK). I remember how unpopular that was in my circles.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Whereas most of them have only recently come here.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
What are my options? Did I? Unless you choose to write someone in, then really, there are are none. Unless you decide not to vote at all. That's a tricky thing, because we know the process is corrupted and the outcome pre-determined...so playing along at all is hard to do. We've all known that though, and aren't deluded into false beliefs. It's nice to think millions more people will engage in the process, because as I see it, they are more apt to keep tabs on what 'their guy' does, and who is fighting him/her/it. Still, the argument that not voting means you no longer have a right to criticize is made all the time, and I don't agree with that either. If you have no faith, and decide not to vote, then you just saved yourself time and bit of grief, but as a taxpayer, and a citizen, you have every right to speak up. There are other options though to try and change the system from the ground up, and expend your energy there. Didn't you say a while back you were asked to run as a Ron Paul Democrat? I can't remember exactly, but it takes more than most people are willing and able to give to consider doing that, and usually for a boat load of ungrateful people. ;) Sorry this was an essay.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Better than someone who's open to being in Iraq for 100 years and sings "Bomb, bomb, bomb... bomb, bomb Iran"? It's about impossible to imagine Obama be a worse choice, ergo, he must be at least a little better. Would that be wrong?
In which case, all discussion on (s)elections is for naught. Which I know is your main point.
So, in 1960 you were unpopular in your circles for supporting Nixon? I'm 58, so in 1960 I was busy trying to feel up Gracie Segona, the only girl w/boobs we knew. You were how old?
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
I was 14. I remember being punched in my high school for wearing a Nixon button. I hope my youth at the time serves to excuse the poor judgment I had in opposing JFK.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
A Clinton/Obama ticket would win with ease as many will write in or leave blank. There is no lesser of three evils currently in this race.
I've posted many articles from the Jerusalem Post where they find him quite acceptable.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
What separates Obama from the others? This is the argument we've been having since RP did his duck and cover.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
very nicely expressed, Mike (your entire post but that in particular)
My understanding is that he wants it restored for Gitmo detainees, as described here: In an e-mail to supporters, Sens. Chris Dodd (D-CT) and Patrick Leahy (D-VT) announced that they were reintroducing the Habeas Corpus Restoration Act as an amendment to a defense authorization bill today. Last fall’s Military Commissions Act stripped detainees charged as enemy combatants of their right of habeas corpus. Watch Dodd introduce the bill on the Senate floor today: thinkprogress.org/2007/09...eintroduce-habeas-corpus- restoration-act/ I can't assume he means for all of us at this point. Do you have a reference?
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
That's why I hope he picks a good running mate. Jim Webb is my choice.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
It's about impossible to imagine Obama be a worse choice, ergo, he must be at least a little better. Would that be wrong? When you look at his advisors, and read how his position has shifted time and again, he is being politically cute to obtain the support he needs from the audience he speaks before. We know McCain is nuts. We know Barack is controlled. We know HIllary want's to be Queen and is as ruthless as they come. Obama could indeed be worse, by looking at his fiscal mentality, of which there is none. Spend spend spend, more more programs, and we are broke. He is well aware that we are in the ME forever. Sorry, he is the worst of the three without fully knowing his own true positions. That said, he could state them, and then bring the truth of the matter to the people. Example, before we establish more entitlement programs, we must balance our budget and fund current commmittments such as Social Security etc. No, we see he supports a global tax, (more cfr crap) as well as a mandated health care program. Where, is the money going to come from? Is that leadership? Or is that pandering? Is there even a possibility it could happen at all? We are being pushed into socialized healthcare no doubt, but the responsible thing is to be honest about the true economic state of the nation, and the truth about our foreign committments.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
The American people must be able to trust that their president values principle over politics, and justice over unchecked power. I’ve been proud to stand with Senator Dodd in his fight against retroactive immunity for the telecommunications industry. Secrecy and special interests must not trump accountability. We must show our citizens – and set an example to the world – that laws cannot be ignored when it is inconvenient. Because in America – no one is above the law. It’s time to reject torture without equivocation. It’s time to close Guantanamo and to restore habeas corpus. It’s time to give our intelligence and law enforcement agencies the tools they need to track down and take out terrorists, while ensuring that their actions are subject to vigorous oversight that protects our freedom. So let me be perfectly clear: I have taught the Constitution, I understand the Constitution, and I will obey the Constitution when I am President of the United States. From Obama's speech accepting Dodd's endorsement (late February). Google "Obama" and "habeas corpus" and you will find repeated statements made by him, starting in the Senate debate in 2006 on the habeas corpus issue.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Oh golly, that just makes me warm and fuzzy all over.
Just curious. I assume you consider Hillary a better selection than McCain, should Obama fail, would you hold your nose and select her?
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
Jeffrey Rosen’s TRB column in the February 27, 2208, New Republic is about how Obama would be the first truly civil libertarian president. That column really sums up what I like about Obama. As a libertarian, civil and fiscal, I don’t agree with a lot of his ideas, but I love his honest and strong civil libertarian bent. After the Bush 43 years this approach to personal liberty and privacy would be a welcome change. And as far as government spending goes, I’m going to go out on a limb and guess he’d be less “liberal” than Bush. Sure Obama’s spending will focus on different areas than Bush’s, but in pure government expansion it’s almost impossible for Obama, or any other “spend thrift liberal,” to match Bush’s woeful record. Plus an Obama presidency might push the GOP to look deep into the dark night and find a core that seems to be lost in Rovian factions and coalitions. The Rove gloat of creating a generation of GOP rule died, oh, about two or three years in. All that being said, I sincerely hope Obama wins either Texas or Ohio and forces Clinton out of the Democratic nomination race. Of course that would also involve Clinton conceding with grace. An outcome still in serious doubt at this time. Here is Rosen’s lede: To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
well, we have to start with the belief that our votes are counted. i happen to believe they don't and that the PTB choose who's going to be president years in advance. i think our elections have been manipulated and fraudulent for years (i read Votescam: The Stealing of America in 2001). i was a reluctant voter for RP from the getgo because of this conviction. that's the reason i was so disappointed and angered when he made the declaration that vote fraud hadn't affected his results in NH and the primary after that. imo, illuminating vote fraud would have been the biggest favor RP could have done for us and this country. for without honest elections, we have nothing. no government for, by, and of the people. this is probably the main issue that separates in the current debate. others, obviously, believe that they're electing. i won't ever vote for one of their selection. it would be an endorsement that i believe in it and will continue to accept it.
Coming from anyone besides Ron Paul and maybe Bob Barr, this is an ominous.....lie. Got to admit that.
But not like McCain. No one is getting into the WH w/o a certain level of acceptance from that quarter.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
He hasn't just taught the Constitution at probably the most conservative major law school in the country, the University of Chicago, he was repeatedly offered tenure there. (He didn't take it, because he didn't want to teach full-time.) Don't you think his fellow law professors there knew something?
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Oh ye of little faith. Ari has already applied for tickets for Queen Hillarys coronation. Obama will be her batman.
No doubt he has a different view of what the Constitution means than you do. But he sincerely believes in civil liberties. Otherwise he wouldn't repeatedly call for restoring habeas corpus in his stump speeches.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Yes indeed, their eyes saw black. And their ears heard English, all that was required.
I don't think I could vote for Hillary. If she got the nomination, I think I would vote third-party.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
You're ignoring the economic costs of a war with Iran, I think.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
I resemble those remarks...well done Christine! I don't care to see what B.O., Hitlery OR McTraitor are going to do and doubt we'll get the opportunity to chat about it before long.
McCain and Hillary are not even mouthing these words, like restoring habeas corpus. Obama is saying them. It remains to be seen whether he will act on them or not. But a candidate who will not even say this, will never act on it.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
ROFLMAO!
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Yeah, B.O. subscribes to the "Steal from them to give to whoever votes for me" principles of the Constitution...LOLOL
Quite an argument.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
I am astounded you know every tiny nuance by Obama, bordering on idolatry. Yet you were never interested in Paul, the one man that made the rest look like the run of the mill politicians they are. i·dol·a·try (-dl-tr) n. pl. i·dol·a·tries 1. Worship of idols. 2. Blind or excessive devotion to something.
meant to PiNg you!
I recall Bush and his "compassionate conservatism" and "follow the Constitution"...
Yes, we are at war. If Iran is averted, it's not like our costs are going down now is it? Why more programs? We are 9T in debt, and he want's more programs. That costs money. Money we don't have. Jobs are leaving, people are losing jobs, so, shouldn't we pay the debt we have, rather than incur more debt for programs we can't afford? Cutting any programs will tick off that voting block. So, I suggest a 100% tax on a targeted segment society. Who should pay?
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
As I have said here repeatedly, the only presidential candidate I have contributed to this campaign season so far is Ron Paul. (And I made no effort to get my money refunded either, unlike some.) I heard Obama make that statement about restoring habeas corpus in another stump speech he made, when he took his campaign from Iowa to New Hampshire. (That's the same speech that Jeffrey Rosen heard and commented on.) I happened to have C-SPAN Radio on at the time his speech came on. And yes, I admit I was impressed by his statement. I think I even posted a thread here at the time. I know I posted one when he made the same statement when he accepted Dodd's endorsement a few weeks later. Unlike some, I do not have a closed mind.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
You think a man who can joke about "bomb bomb Iran" will avoid war with that country?
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
I've never heard ari say nary a dirty nuanced word about the North American Union...have you? That's the fait accompli that finishes off America for GOOD and the status quo completes it during the next Administration. Rearrange deck chairs on the CFR/D/R Titanic all they'd like, but America is finished and there is no political avenue that will fix it in time unless the corrupt process is broken by force.
There is every reason to be cynical. I see no similarities in the backgrounds and characters of Bush and Obama.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
The difference is that most politicians are scared of raising the issue of habeas corpus. That's why most of them don't.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Someone called the v2.1 "Convenient" Konservatism IIRC...
Ari, you ignore all truths about Obama. He voted for the Patriot Act. We've been through this before. You did not offer me any clarification above my post about Habeus being restored to detainees..only a speech that mentions it. You know, if you want to debate facts, then bring some. While words are nice, I'd like to see where he puts them in action. Thanks anyway..
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
He talked about restoring habeas corpus in general. He didn't say he was restricting that to Guantanamo, and there's no reason to interpret his words that way. But, even if you do, those of us who care about civil liberties would like to see habeas corpus restored even for the detainees at Guantanamo.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Perhaps you are confusing people with "closed minds" with people that have had enough of politics and will no longer follow the ring in our noses. This nation suffered thru eight long years with Clinton, another eight with Bush and you want us to accept the next Johnny come lately being foisted upon us by the system? We arrived at this place in history by voting for lesser of two evils with both evils serving the same master, somehow believing Obama is his own man by people is a valid sign that the government propaganda does indeed work on non thinking people.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
And by that do you suggest I support McCain? I've posted much about Obama's advisors strategy on this. Were you able to connect the dots? Obama is saying what we want to hear, but what is playing out here is a redeployment of troops for a much bigger one. Bigger wider war, more troops.. now THAT is more expensive no? Maybe it is that staying out of Iran is the better thing no matter what else blows up........ Then, with trusty McCain in the Senate, he can vote the funds for it! So, in a way, you could get it all.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Don't interpret for me, I just looked at the legislation brought forward. But, even if you do, those of us who care about civil liberties would like to see habeas corpus restored even for the detainees at Guantanamo. Habeus should be restored for all, so why the limited application in the legislation? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm?
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
A 'New World Order' for Conservatives? (McCain - North American Union)
this is an excellent thread with excellent debate absent of personal animous. that makes me happy. ;)
After this country was gang raped by the Clintons and the Bushes it is difficult for me to accept that intelligent Americans are perfectly willing to follow any new Pied Piper that the ruling elite put out front. These people would have you believe that the $2 million a day that rolls in to Obama are coming from Mom and Pop at ten bucks a clip. Right.
There's still time.. ;) JUST KIDDING.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Thanks FOH!
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Welcome to the New Communist World Order of One World Communist Monopolists...
I guess some folks will just go ahead and support a North American Unioner...sad.
Nor could they have been, the nation was much younger and not primed for the takedown. That was Clinton's job. Clinton=Bush=Clinton/Obama/McCain
"Hello Rothschild's cattle!" ~ Deek Jackson
FOH... I am so olde that I remember when State Government was the people that maintained the roads. The Federal Government was some body of no gooders that inhabited some swampland down in MD and VA. We heard nothing from Washington and very little from the State. We got by on our own. Then along came this countries first "savior" FDR. Now we have the second "savior" Obama.
You're a North American now...
It is. I think it's essentially a done deal except for the currency at this point. A harmonizing of the central banks, into a single entity needs to happen. We can see the pieces being put in place to be ready when the dollar collapses. A lot of acrobatics in that direction it seems to me anyway.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Is there any country that will accept emigrees from NORTH AMERICA?
Ich bin ein North American Unioner.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
The McCain years would be even worse.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
No one here now or in the past has supported McKooK in any fashion.
I agree, but McCain could end up in the WH if enough people do not vote against him.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
I couldn't find proof that he was offered tenure several times, as he was not on 'tenure-track'. Apparently in that world, (the law and all) a bunch of people get twisted up over details and know how to spin the wording to prove or disprove this or that. With this though, people are still unpeeling that onion. More on that here: Saturday, March 29, 2008 Obama's never been a "professor of law" nor any full-time or tenure-track legal educator beldar.blogs.com/beldarbl...8/03/obamas-never-be.html
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
A voting record to support that would be nice. As a constitutional lecturer, how does he square with funding an undeclared war, now knowing what he does about the intelligence? As much as his credentials are supposed to prove, he shrinks from his known responsibilities. A leader would lead.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
For me he is a fresher voice then the other two who represent gridlock bickering and an adherence to their own special sorts of gangster-ism and corruption. I am voting for him because he represents the best chance of a decent POTUS. I came out in support more aggressively here primarily to encourage debate on the election that does not involve personal attracts and recriminations simply over one's views on the election and the people involved. I am pleased with how this thread is going by the way, and I am always for civil discussion and lively debate over forum food fights. I have been enjoying your contributions in forum too by the way. Even though we disagree on things, you are an intelligent, educated and thoughtful person with a high political efficacy. And this is something I appreciate.
From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure- track. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School's Senior Lecturers has high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined. University of Chicago Law School: Statement Regarding Barack Obama. When I was a lecturer at Yale University, I was often given the courtesy title of "Professor." Just as I am entitled to be addressed as "Commander", even though I am only a Lieutenant Commander (retired).
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Maybe it's time to unpeel Romneys little onion too. Hillarys Health Care Sham You know, Hillary, we need to talk. Today you unveiled your shiny new health plan and I have to say that I am wildly underwhelmed. First we need to get something out of the way. For you to proclaim that your plan provides, Universal Health Care is a decided misnomer. Universal Health Insurance might be more like it. Universal Health Care is what they have in England and Canada and Spain and Germany and Japan and, well, every civilized nation in the world but ours. Its single payer health care provided free of charge with no need for interference by a greed-crazed insurance and pharmaceutical industry. Is that so freaking hard to understand?… Hillary Clinton yesterday set out an ambitious $110bn plan to introduce universal healthcare in the US more than 10 years after her earlier failed attempt. And that would be great, if private health insurance in this country didn't already suck for air. Senator, your plan is basically a national version of Republican Mitt Romneys Universal Health Care plan for Massachusetts, which has still left thousands in that state uninsured and even more struggling to make the payments on their new policies, which they are now required to have by law, but which may not pay them one thin dime should they actually become sick or hurt. What you are trying to pass off here as some kind of bold new way forward is just another bureaucratic nightmare in the making, as the already staggeringly inefficient insurance corporations struggle to take on the millions of new clients and patients. That'll work. That'll work just fine for rich people like you and your husband and the Bush family. Is there anybody here who believes that this plan wasn't conceived and dictated to Senator Clinton by passels of high-end lobbyists for the insurance industry? Yeah? Well, I've got some sports memorabilia in a hotel room in Vegas that I'll sell you. No, really, it's mine. We just need to go in there with our guns drawn to get it. Found here: thinkprogress.org/2007/09...leahy-reintroduce-habeas- corpus-restoration-act/#comment-4081633
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Okay commander, Obama was invited to join, but he declined. This too was noted and explained in the link I posted to you. You claimed he was invited several times. Small difference, or just embellishing the fact? Maybe he was under sniper fire?
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Just FYI ping.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Before you crack a joke, you need to read more carefully.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
September 17th, 2007 1:47 pm Before people get all worked about this, let’s take a look at Hillary’s plan. She proposes a government subsidy of $110 billion dollars annually to assist people in affording private insurance. This is sure to grow as the health care corporation find ways of jacking up prices. Essentially, this is throwing more money at our already bloated health care industry. Right now, we spend in excess of 9% GNP on health care in this country. No other Western country spends more than 3% of GNP to provide complete health care for all of it’s citizens. Moreover, our halth care service, as measured against other industriezed countries for quality, doesn’t even make it into the top 20! If we implimented a Scandiavian style system, one with truly universal coverage, we could cover every Amercian citizen under such a plan for about 80 bilion dollars annually and provide better quality care. Ms. Clinton’s involvemenbt of health care corporations in her plan is no different than Dick Cheney’s using energy corporation in his secret task force. Throwing money at corporations for essential services is insane, it is inefficient, it is too expensive, and is ultimately doomed to failure. If you really want (and I do) universal health care coverage, the way to achieve it is to remove private corporation from the process. That would immediately get costs uder control and remove the enormous group of investor parasite that make money off the misery of others. Hillary ought to be ashamed of herself. — Posted by Mike Brooks thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.c...asts-clinton-health-care- plan/#comment-253520 Post #13: “I would also like to note that I am a fully covered working professional, but I still wouldn’t mind paying a few extra tax dollars (should it come to that) to live in a world where my friends and family who work part- time and entry-level jobs can live their lives without having to equate getting sick or having an accident with financial disaster.” — Posted by Ryan Golden (Brooklyn) I do not want my tax dollars used to promote ’socialized warfare’ via the heavily contracted and subsidized Military-Industrial Complex and the corporations that comprise this group. These corporations make huge profits designing ingenious ways to destroy people. Now that’s an uplifting way to spend your time, isn’t it? I similarly don’t care much for the idea of subsidizing the airline industry….socialist ideas at work here? I particularly abhor the welfare payments called foreign aid entitlements that are used as a tool for control around the world. The welfare countries that operate with their palms up for the US to fill with our tax dollars is repulsive to me. That is socialized government. How about the subsidization of corporations that operate illegally offshore and continually cook their books in clever accounting tricks? The government looks the other way on this club. The Cayman Islands??? Isn’t that a nice vacation spot? No one that I know is advocating FREE health care. What people are finding is that a single-payer, not-for-profit, universal health system needs to be built here in the US. I’m quite convinced that American minds, unfettered by the chains of corporate influence by private insurers (who really aren’t in the biz of providing care, rather they’re in the business of denying care to maximize their profits) can devise a sensible, fair system of health care that can and will provide essential health care for all our citizens. I would like to see this as a priority. Only when this item is taken care of, do we even consider the ‘applications’ of foreign governments for ‘help’ in holding up their governments. Let them fend for themselves while we right our sinking ship of state, first and foremost. I don’t want to read or hear one more suggestion by any candidate re: 56.September 18th, 2007 9:06 am Tiflitis at Post 50, really sums up how many physicians feel today. They are squeezed from all sides. They can no longer determine how patient care is delivered when they are second-guessed by some clerk in another state. The red-tape, insurance forms, and administrative help that is required to run a practice today is overwhelming. This is a direct result of Nixon’s ideas brought to birth through the creation of ‘managed care.’ Mananged by whom? All we heard then was how this was the panacea to solve all the problems of health care. This would be the dawn of a new age in medicine. This would surely solve the problems of having arrogant doctors think for one second that they actually know how to diagnose and treat disease. It would also solve the irritating problem of the public actually have access to a doctor they liked and who could offer them treatments and care, as well as alternative plans of disease managment. Why, the nerve of them…the absolute effrontery of physicians to disagree with some private insurance customer service rep. in an obscure outpost office. Imagine that doctors actually want to care for their patients in ways they deem appropriate! People get sick? This is not allowed by private ‘insurers’ because they are not interested in providing care, they are only concerned with disqualifying people through loopholes like “pre-existing conditions” and maximizing their own profit margins. Health care is expensive, because people get sick…face it. It is not an area of “business’ like manufacturing widgets, it is far too personal. This whole debate is nauseating. How about all Americans receiving a plan similar to the one our Congress offers to its members? Exactly the same. How about it? 57.September 18th, 2007 11:58 am All the plans are politically unattainable. We need something simple like the Healthcare Access Card suggested at www.healthcaresoundoff.com 58.September 18th, 2007 5:13 pm tiflitis @ 50 Thanks for your insights as a medical professional. The leading candidates’ plans do nothing to address the real problem which is created by the insurance companies. Those that will allow anyone other than their physician to make decisions for their health care based on profit margins really needs a mental health professional which is obvious their health plan does not cover. HRC’s plan just perpetuates the current disjointed system. I would suggest everyone who intends to vote based on this issue to ask the opinion of their personal physician whom they should trust more than a politician. I know from personal experience that making sure our medical claims are reimbursed by the insurance is a full time job for my wife. Most of the doctors we use keep on dropping the insurances and will only take direct payment, which puts the patient at the mercy of the insurance companies. I can safely bet I am not the only one that has tousled with an insurance company and it is usually over the same thing - procedures which are not covered, medications which are not on their preferred list, lost claims, incorrectly processed claims, layers and layers of bureaucracy, etc…. and all along the premiums keep on rising and the coverage keeps on decreasing. So for anyone that believes the “market approach” is working I ask - working for whom? Cheers, — Posted by Romulo 59.September 18th, 2007 5:20 pm hacp @ 43 The insurance companies may have trashed the '93 plan, and will for sure try to trash any plan that tries to separate them from the teat, but if a president decided to push health care reform to benefit the populace instead of the insurances, who would you back? Now remember, the insurance companies rely on your belief that the system cannot be changed Cheers, — Posted by Romulo "The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
There is no proof that he was offered tenure several times.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Monday I'm going to a hearing at the state capitol for AJR 51. It is non binding but calls for the repeal of Real ID.
No proof, that is, if you don't find an official statement by the University of Chicago Law School to be evidence enough. Oh, I see, you're objecting that he was only offered tenure-track positions, not tenure. I suppose that's true. I stand corrected. I was somewhat inaccurate. Yes, I misremembered. But Obama was not inaccurate, and my point stands that the University of Chicago clearly thought highly of Obama as a professor.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Good of you to admit your reading comprehension sometimes is lacking. I have been telling you about that for some time. Ahem.
And did you read the link I provided above about that? Oh, I see, you're objecting that he was only offered tenure-track positions, not tenure. I suppose that's true. I stand corrected. I only object when people embellish the facts. The facts are the facts, and apparently the legal community likes to make sure they're right, especially when it's about them. I was somewhat inaccurate. Yes, I misremembered. But Obama was not inaccurate, and my point stands that the University of Chicago clearly thought highly of Obama as a professor. That's okay. There's no argument so far that people consider lecturers, 'professors' UofChicago. As a lecturer or professor on the Constitution, I'd expect to see his positions closer to Ron Paul, yet, despite his education, and respect given as a lecturer, his PERSONAL politics are contrary to it. I did read that he considers the Constitution a living document. So, if that is true then, his politics support that. He sort of picks and chooses what he likes about it.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Yes, and I consider an official statement by the University of Chicago Law School to be better evidence. Especially when it happens to coincide with my own experience as a lecturer at Yale.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
I drove by Yale once, they told me to keep moving.
I would say they were being politically careful, yet were taken to task on known definitions by others as well. Your experience as a lecturer at Yale then should by extention find it important that accuracy be maintained. However, the law means whatever you let people get away with at the moment. It may be rude of me to suggest that as a lecturer at Yale, I expect you to have a fine tuned ear and eye for BS. As retired military, I expect it. I have 3 cousins now deployed, another one is home a year now (with an injury the Gov. refuses to treat). The truth matters. Spinning it to fit some world view that will not happen, is hard for me to understand and accept at face value.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Ok Ari you been shelved by an expert, admit it. I once met a gentleman that was a Prof at a large engineering school. Degrees by the handful. I mentioned I had a loser friend that graduated from the same school and asked if perhaps he had "loser" for a student. He turned red faced and flustered, turned out my "loser" friend had HIM as a student.
Not an expert, or a doormat either. Thank you though.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Oh how I would LOVE to see Hillary run as a third-party/independent candidate. Just so she can see just HOW unpopular she is nationally.
The title of this thread is really misleading now. A poll came out in the last day or so placing Hillary 18 points ahead.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
There's no guarantee. All three are sanctioned by the criminals at the top else they wouldn't be there. Obama is getting so much favorable MSM coverage, don't you think? His message is allowable. The whole thing is a dog and pony show to distract you and the rest from seeing and reacting to the horror that our country has become.
"Hello Rothschild's cattle!" ~ Deek Jackson
Pregnant man tells Oprah: It's a miracle
lol. Don't forget Britney...it seems she's seeing her father for a limited time everyday.
"Hello Rothschild's cattle!" ~ Deek Jackson
Thanks Mike. I'm certain you have me confused with someone else tho :)
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
Who rattled your cage?
I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party
Sure there is... The Peoples Democratic Republic of Congo. They like you a lot - boiled with garlic.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" FF, While this may be the lamest ill-sourced post ever, I offer this. On MSNBC this morning, some pub came out warning against the National ID/Real ID legislation. I don't know the guys name, had never seen his face on the tube before, but the hosts kept teasing that he was on the short list of McCain VP possibilities. That they connected him with McCain, is a red flag on it's own. That he is warning of the lack of evidence that such a card is not a guarantee of a more secure nation... It made me wonder, what *else* was in the pipeline. Something different than a card? These people don't do anything without prepping the public with what they want to hear to embrace something worse as the exchange. I wish like hell I could tell you the guys name, but I can only relay what I saw and heard. FWIW.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
hehehehe..witty ;)
Not nice scare an olde man. You have seen too many of the boiling pot jokes. Maybe Turtle would let me become an Ozarker?
hehehehe..witty ;) Not funny at all, scare an olde man. I will tell on both of you.
Well I can tell you that the Real ID Act of 2005 puts our state drivers licenses under an international authority with Canada and Mexico and creates an international face recognition data base that will be shared with all other countries. There is a requirement that all people entering the US by air be checked against this data base. Since face recognition is only effective less than 40% of the time, what are the odds of false identification? And we know that "terrorists" are enemy combatants held with out bail or legal counsel. Real ID not only gets us closer to NAU but a one world government.
That's a good idea. They got coffins there and like to have sex in them. Weird bunch I tell you.
God is always good!
Yes indeed. You are at a social gathering of uppity people, most are unknown to each other. One person "attended" Yale, how will you know who that person is? Not to worry, they will tell you.
Only if you marry his wife. That's how you get in good with the families down there.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" I only mentioned I was a lecturer at Yale because it was relevant to the discussion of Obama's academic status. Are we not supposed to present evidence of our personal experiences when they are relevant to a discussion? I bet you can't find a single other posting of mine here where I mentioned that item in my history.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
That's what the guy on the tube yesterday mentioned as well.. I think he mentioned that people need to push back starting now before some implementation begins in 2009. Real ID not only gets us closer to NAU but a one world government. Agreed. I'm sure all 3 candidates are FOR this.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
Ari... I did not see its relevancy. My error.
Cyni, The entire exchange between you and ari should go like this: ari: "I've lectured at Yale. Have you?" Cyni: "No, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night."
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
You missed my point, which was that, although I was just a lecturer, I was often addressed by the courtesy title of "Professor". I mentioned Yale to suggest the analogy with the University of Chicago, which I suspect has similar customs. Trust you to miss my point.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Just joshing around.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
At least when you "speak" here, you never know what you'll be called ;P
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
REAL_ID_Act_of_2005 So they buried it in another bill no one would dare vote against. It was a unanimous vote in the Senate.
Cyni: "No, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night." Jethro... I "did" get the point Ari was making. It is true I came in on the turnip truck, but not yesterday. I have no paper to hang on the wall, no credentials, no ethics, however I do have a BS degree from UHN.
Grrr.
"The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." -- Herbert Sebastien Agar (1897-1980) Source: The Time for Greatness, 1942
And I'm a graduate of City University of New York, the land of Lionel Trilling, Irving Kristol and Norman Podhoretz. Our little commie wannabes have nooooooooo idea what the real radical left is capable of, but I suspect we'll see in good time.
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
#2. To: Sam Houston (#1)
#3. To: christine (#2)
#4. To: Sam Houston (#3)
#5. To: Sam Houston (#3)
#6. To: Sam Houston (#1)
#7. To: ghostdogtxn (#6)
I think Obama wins this election decisively.
#8. To: Cynicom (#7)
#9. To: ghostdogtxn (#8)
#10. To: ghostdogtxn (#6)
#11. To: Sam Houston (#3)
McInsane may well end civilization.
#12. To: all (#0)
#13. To: Cynicom (#9)
#14. To: angle (#10)
#15. To: ghostdogtxn (#14)
#16. To: ghostdogtxn (#14)
I think there's a lot of misunderestimation going on about Obama.
#17. To: ghostdogtxn (#13)
#18. To: aristeides (#15)
#19. To: angle (#11)
Cancer may get him first. Enter RP
#20. To: Jethro Tull (#16)
#21. To: Jethro Tull (#16)
There simply aren't enough guilt laden whites out here.......thank god.
#22. To: Cynicom (#17)
#23. To: christine (#19)
#24. To: ghostdogtxn (#20)
(Edited)
There may not be enough guilt laden whites out there, but how many bloodthirsty warmongers are left?
#25. To: Cynicom (#21)
#26. To: ghostdogtxn (#25)
Sure. I'm voting for the black guy because of my "guilt"...
#27. To: Cynicom (#24)
#28. To: Cynicom (#21)
They are all very quiet about the fact that Obama will garner 99 per cent of the black vote, " because he is black", very quiet.
#29. To: Cynicom (#26)
#30. To: Jethro Tull (#28)
#31. To: ghostdogtxn (#27)
Geeze. You make me sad, Cyni. You really do.
#32. To: ghostdogtxn (#30)
O please. Why don't you just come on out and say you'd never vote for a black guy and be done with it. You're about as opaque as a sheet of glass.
#33. To: Cynicom (#31)
#34. To: ghostdogtxn (#22)
How come he's winning in white states in the midwest, then?
#35. To: Cynicom, Jethro Tull (#32)
#36. To: ghostdogtxn (#30)
Why don't you just come on out and say you'd never vote for a black guy and be done with it.
#37. To: Jethro Tull (#34)
#38. To: Jethro Tull (#36)
#39. To: ghostdogtxn (#35)
This "reverse racism" card you guys continuously play, why does it never come out unless there's a black running for office? It's bullshit, that's why.
#40. To: ghostdogtxn (#33)
WTF are you talking about? 4um gave Ron Paul tons of support,
#41. To: Jethro Tull (#39)
#42. To: ghostdogtxn (#38)
Then quit bitching about the result.
#43. To: Jethro Tull, ghoistdogtxn (#39)
This "reverse racism"
#44. To: ghostdogtxn (#41)
I'd say it no more exists than good old fashioned racism.
#45. To: christine (#19)
Cancer may get him first. Enter RP
#46. To: Cynicom (#43)
ghost does not want to discuss the millions of blacks that will vote Obama because he is black. I find that odd.
#47. To: Jethro Tull (#28)
As part of their guilt they willingly accept a seat on the back of the same bus Rosa Park rode. Take pity; their warm and fuzzy feeling will soon be replaced by shock when their kids become the brunt of the insanity they embrace.
#48. To: Cynicom (#40)
#49. To: Jethro Tull (#44)
#50. To: Peppa (#47)
He supports 65K more troops and a redeployment plan,
#51. To: Cynicom (#43)
ghost does not want to discuss the millions of blacks that will vote Obama because he is black. I find that odd.
#52. To: ghostdogtxn (#49)
#53. To: ghostdogtxn (#48)
As for WHY Obama wants more troops in Afghanistan, I don't know that he really does
#54. To: Jethro Tull (#52)
#55. To: ghostdogtxn (#48)
You know something? I never heard ANYONE from the Ron Paul campaign bitching that they didn't have enough money. Did you?
#56. To: ghostdogtxn (#54)
, dumbass.
#57. To: Peppa (#53)
#58. To: Cynicom (#50)
The key word is "redeployment".
#59. To: Cynicom (#55)
#60. To: ghostdogtxn (#57)
Thanks, Peppa. Glad to see someone around here at least does some work!
#61. To: Cynicom (#56)
#62. To: Cynicom, Peppa, all (#50)
The key word is "redeployment".
#63. To: Peppa (#60)
#64. To: Cynicom (#17)
Obama as dem candidate brings us McKooK, Americans lose regardless who wins.
#65. To: ghostdogtxn (#54)
Then stop pinging me, dumbass.
#66. To: RickyJ (#64)
The fact that there are people on this forum arguing over which puppet they prefer is really quite disturbing.
#67. To: RickyJ, Jethro Tull, ghostdogtxn, Christine (#64)
I really thought most of the members of this forum were above that.
#68. To: RickyJ (#64)
#69. To: Cynicom (#67)
#70. To: ghostdogtxn (#14)
(Edited)
going against the first really 21st century candidate. It doesn't matter whether you like Obama or not, you have to look objectively at his machine. He's built the slickest political machine in living memory
#71. To: christine (#19)
would it be wrong to pray for that?
#72. To: Jethro Tull (#62)
Little did I know by simply offering it w/o comment, some would take offense.
#73. To: Sam Houston (#69)
I have always thought of myself as a Texan first and then an American.
#74. To: ghostdogtxn (#48)
As for WHY Obama wants more troops in Afghanistan, I don't know that he really does.
#75. To: Cynicom (#73)
#76. To: christine (#68)
this has been a debate only since the departure of Ron Paul. where are the large number of 4um's Paulites? if i may venture a guess. they're hopeless, burnt out, and have given up on politics.
#77. To: christine (#68)
where are the large number of 4um's Paulites? if i may venture a guess. they're hopeless, burnt out, and have given up on politics.
#78. To: angle (#74)
He says so, but you don't know if he means it? Utter crap. I don't get where you're coming from at all.
#79. To: Sam Houston (#75)
I disagree about Texas being on the right side of that war
#80. To: Cynicom (#78)
that proposal is not his military strategy
#81. To: Cynicom (#78)
Troops in Afghanistan. There is a reason they are there, there is a reason Obama was told that was his position. Obamas military expertise is totally lacking so that proposal is not his military strategy.
#82. To: ghostdogtxn (#63)
Welcome to politics.
#83. To: angle (#80)
(Edited)
It's his miltary strategy if they say it's his military strategy.
#84. To: PeppaJethro Tull, Christine, ghostdogtxn, Sam Houston (#81)
Zbig did not mention that the reason he wants to downplay certain aspects of US aggression in the Middle East is to free up resources for use in the much bigger and more dangerous adventures which the Trilateral Commission is now directing.
#85. To: christine (#19)
Cancer may get him first. Enter RP
#86. To: ghostdogtxn (#57)
#87. To: Peppa (#72)
Any discussion of Obama's statements or votes appears to be offensive. Such scrutiny is racist.
#88. To: Cynicom (#84)
As usual you did you homework and this quote is correct.
#89. To: Cynicom (#21)
They are all very quiet about the fact that Obama will garner 99 per cent of the black vote, " because he is black", very quiet.
#90. To: Jethro Tull (#87)
This tactic by guilt laden whites has been adopted from the black radical handbook. For now they're useful idiots.
#91. To: All (#86)
Obama, McCain, albeit using slightly different terms, agrees: "To defeat al Qaeda, I will build a twenty-first-century military and twenty-first-century partnerships as strong as the anticommunist alliance that won the Cold War to stay on the offense everywhere from Djibouti to Kandahar." - Sen Obama,McCain June 4, 2007
#92. To: Cynicom (#32)
And how opaque are the blacks that will 99 per cent vote for Obama because he is black..
#93. To: aristeides (#89)
I think you're old enough to remember how much of the Catholic vote JFK got in 1960
#94. To: Peppa (#90)
There's only one poster I've seen that said, I'm voting for O because he's black. And he has made it clear why. Honesty is refreshing.
#95. To: Jethro Tull (#42)
White liberals have always provided me with an endless source of amusement.
#96. To: Jethro Tull (#93)
......the Catholic vote that went to JFK was the traditional Democrat vote, as most Catholics then, and now, remain Ds
#97. To: iconoclast (#95)
Can't wait to see how amused you are when the white plutocrap depression comes down.
#98. To: Jethro Tull (#94)
(Edited)
I know of whom you speak, and yes it's refreshing, but, that same poster would say nasty things about a white who did the same. That would be an example of the reverse racism he refuses to acknowledge.
#99. To: aristeides (#96)
Thank you for making my point for me. There's no difference between how Catholics then voted for JFK, and how blacks today support Obama.
#100. To: aristeides, Cynicom, Jethro Tull (#89)
I think you're old enough to remember how much of the Catholic vote JFK got in 1960. Do you ascribe his victory to "Protestant guilt"?
Israeli designs 'Who killed Barack Obama?' T-shirts
#101. To: Peppa (#98)
#102. To: Jethro Tull (#101)
It began w/socialism and has since wormed its way into the marrow of the white progressive. I wish I could drink their Kool Aid but reality always gets in my way.
kl Aid is spiked?
#103. To: robin (#100)
It's so silly to talk about guilt. If I vote for Obama, it will be out of a very healthy fear of the warmonger McCain.
#104. To: robin (#100)
If I vote for Obama, it will be out of a very healthy fear of the warmonger McCain.
#105. To: christine (#86)
note Obama's reference to 911
#106. To: robin (#100)
#107. To: Jethro Tull (#106)
I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.
#108. To: Cynicom (#67)
#109. To: angle (#70)
#110. To: angle (#74)
#111. To: Cynicom (#84)
#112. To: ghostdogtxn (#110)
This has nothing to do with whether he'd make a good president or not. I think he'll be a poor president at best, but less of a disaster than the other 2 options.
#113. To: ghostdogtxn (#108)
I've never said I wasn't Democrat leaning. Never. I've been very open about my party affiliation, both former and present.
#114. To: ghostdogtxn (#6)
I think Obama wins this election decisively.
#115. To: christine (#86)
#116. To: Cynicom (#9)
#117. To: ghostdogtxn (#13)
It's a tie, and except for CBS/NYT, the leads of either side are within the MOE. As the election nears, I suspect Obama's numbers will rise against McCain, although that is by no means certain.
#118. To: ghostdogtxn (#111)
Zbig as Obama's foreign policy adviser is a scary concept, but look how the critics lapped up "Charlie Wilson's War". That was an unapologetic ode to Zbigniew Breszinski's policies that would have made Monica Lewinski blush from under the table, and yet it was accepted non critically by most Americans.
#119. To: ghostdogtxn (#48)
As for WHY Obama wants more troops in Afghanistan, I don't know that he really does.
Obama stakes turf, outlines counterterrorism plan - Would add troops in Afghanistan, double foreign aid
Obama says he'd send troops into Pakistan to hunt down terrorists.
Obama: Shift Troops to Fight al-Qaida
#120. To: angle (#70)
Frankly, I'm shocked to see you drinking the kool-aid.
#121. To: Peppa (#112)
#122. To: Jethro Tull (#113)
#123. To: christine (#19)
Cancer may get him first. Enter RP
would it be wrong to pray for that?
#124. To: Pinguinite (#114)
#125. To: iconoclast (#120)
#126. To: ghostdogtxn (#122)
#127. To: Cynicom (#31)
Paul was the only man that would have ended the war, yet 4um gave next to zero support.
#128. To: Peppa (#118)
#129. To: ghostdogtxn (#121)
#130. To: Jethro Tull, Cynicom (#126)
#131. To: Peppa (#129)
#132. To: Pinguinite, Sam Houston, all (#114)
#133. To: Jethro Tull (#125)
Wow, thanks for the fact filled post. I'm sure cleared up the confusion we're having with his past and present statements.
#134. To: christine (#132)
#135. To: ghostdogtxn (#130)
#136. To: Jethro Tull (#106)
I assume you're talking about national ZioNazis, and nobody associated w/the forum?
#137. To: Cynicom (#67)
It is going to be interesting when Obama is willing to become VP candidate with Clinton in charge. These same people will in fact justify their votes for Clinton because of Obama.
#138. To: robin (#136)
#139. To: angle (#104)
If a dem wins, they inherit and get blamed for the mess in addition to obeying their masters. If McWar wins, the neocons will be even more emboldened to act on their "mandate."
#140. To: christine (#68)
where are the large number of 4um's Paulites? if i may venture a guess. they're hopeless, burnt out, and have given up on politics.
#141. To: Jethro Tull (#103)
#142. To: ghostdogtxn (#128)
(Edited)
Your second point has me wondering a bit, though. I usually don't try to turn a question around unless the poser of it is an asshole, and believe me, I don't think that of you at all, but where are you coming from here?
#143. To: Jethro Tull (#16)
"Rendell & Hillary are right. He can't win a national. There simply aren't enough guilt laden whites out here.......thank god."
Obama for president 2008
#144. To: Jethro Tull (#103)
For reasons I don't understand you've chosen to ignore countless articles detailing O's foreign policy as one that is closely aligned with the other two candidates.
#145. To: Jethro Tull (#99)
(Edited)
Sure there is a difference. Black Ds were Clintonites until a fellow black came into the mix. See? To them it's all about race, my fine diversity-loving friend.
#146. To: ghostdogtxn (#108)
I've been standing right where I have been since day 1.
#147. To: ghostdogtxn (#131)
You ducked the question.
#148. To: Peppa (#129)
So basically, without a record and believing what you don't see is proof that he is not bought and sold, you just sort of feel that his is better choice.
#149. To: christine (#132)
Obama's gotta get past the Dem party elite to secure the nomination first. that won't happen unless he's the selection.
#150. To: aristeides (#145)
I remember. I was a Catholic Irish-American who (mistakenly) supported Nixon that year (mainly out of resentment of how it seemed to be expected that I should support JFK). I remember how unpopular that was in my circles.
#151. To: Jethro Tull (#150)
(Edited)
#152. To: Pinguinite (#137)
#153. To: robin (#141)
If he is just like McCain, why doesn't Izzy like Obama?
#154. To: Ferret Mike (#143)
#155. To: Ferret Mike (#143)
I am prepared to survive, and to fight for what I believe. But I am not going to belittle and browbeat people still trying to make the system work. Working through problems and bringing elections back to the people for them to make the choice is preferable to seeing martial law and an insurgency develop with people dying and imprisoned as they try to keep the revolution of 1776 alive.
#156. To: aristeides (#144)
Obama repeatedly calls for restoring habeas corpus in his speeches. The other candidates do not do that.
#157. To: Ferret Mike (#143)
And if Obama gets in and shows the same fierce independence and unwillingness to accede to the desires of this shadow government group running things, they would shoot him just as brutally and quickly as they did John Kennedy.
#158. To: Pinguinite (#148)
Better than someone who's open to being in Iraq for 100 years and sings "Bomb, bomb, bomb... bomb, bomb Iran"?
#159. To: Peppa (#156)
We know it’s time to time to restore our Constitution and the rule of law. This is an issue that was at the heart of Senator Dodd’s candidacy, and I share his passion for restoring the balance between the security we demand and the civil liberties that we cherish.
#160. To: aristeides (#159)
I have taught the Constitution, I understand the Constitution, and I will obey the Constitution when I am President of the United States.
#161. To: aristeides (#159)
#162. To: Peppa (#156)
If Barack Obama were to win the Democratic nomination and the White House, he would be, among other things, our first civil libertarian president. This is clear not just from his lifetime rating on the ACLU’s scorecard (82 percent compared to John McCain’s 25 percent). It is clear from the fact that civil liberties have been among his most passionate interests–as a constitutional law professor, state legislator, and senator. On the campaign trail, he has been unapologetic about these enthusiasms. In New Hampshire, I heard him end a rousing stump speech by promising the cheering crowd, “We will close Guantánamo, we will restore habeas corpus, we will have a president who will respect and obey the Constitution.” Has a political consultant ever urged a candidate to brandish habeas corpus?
#163. To: Pinguinite (#149)
#164. To: aristeides (#159)
So let me be perfectly clear: I have taught the Constitution, I understand the Constitution, and I will obey the Constitution when I am President of the United States.
#165. To: Jethro Tull (#153)
#166. To: Cynicom (#160)
#167. To: Jethro Tull (#161)
#168. To: Pinguinite (#164)
#169. To: aristeides (#166)
Don't you think his fellow law professors there knew something?
#170. To: Jethro Tull (#161)
#171. To: Peppa (#158)
Obama could indeed be worse, by looking at his fiscal mentality, of which there is none. Spend spend spend, more more programs, and we are broke. He is well aware that we are in the ME forever.
#172. To: christine, Original_Intent, TwentyTwelve, wudidiz, JamesDeffenbach, buckeye, Cynicom, JethroTull, lodwick, Critter, _______, Pinguinite, FormerLurker, farmfriend, *North American Union* (#163)
(Edited)
All three will bring us fully into the NAU and complete bastardization of our nation to the globalist god.
What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!
#173. To: Cynicom (#160)
#174. To: aristeides (#159)
So let me be perfectly clear: I have taught the Constitution, I understand the Constitution, and I will obey the Constitution when I am President of the United States.
#175. To: aristeides (#168)
No doubt he has a different view of what the Constitution means than you do.
What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!
#176. To: Peppa (#174)
ROFLMAO!
#177. To: aristeides (#168)
But he sincerely believes in civil liberties. Otherwise he wouldn't repeatedly call for restoring habeas corpus in his stump speeches.
#178. To: Peppa (#172)
I don't care to see what B.O., Hitlery OR McTraitor are going to do and doubt we'll get the opportunity to chat about it before long.
What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!
#179. To: robin (#173)
#180. To: aristeides (#171)
Obama could indeed be worse, by looking at his fiscal mentality, of which there is none. Spend spend spend, more more programs, and we are broke. He is well aware that we are in the ME forever. You're ignoring the economic costs of a war with Iran, I think.
#181. To: Cynicom (#177)
(Edited)
#182. To: Peppa (#180)
If Iran is averted, it's not like our costs are going down now is it?
#183. To: Cynicom (#177)
What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!
#184. To: Cynicom (#179)
#185. To: Cynicom (#179)
I recall Bush and his "compassionate conservatism" and "follow the Constitution"...
#186. To: Cynicom (#179)
What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!
#187. To: aristeides (#176)
ROFLMAO! Quite an argument.
#188. To: Peppa (#187)
#189. To: aristeides (#181)
Unlike some, I do not have a closed mind.
#190. To: Cynicom (#179)
#191. To: aristeides (#182)
(Edited)
You think a man who can joke about "bomb bomb Iran" will avoid war with that country?
#192. To: aristeides (#188)
He talked about restoring habeas corpus in general. He didn't say he was restricting that to Guantanamo, and there's no reason to interpret his words that way.
#193. To: Cynicom (#189)
What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!
#194. To: aristeides, Peppa, robin, Cynicom, Jethro Tull, ghostdogtxn, Ferret Mike, ALL (#189)
#195. To: FOH (#183)
#196. To: christine (#194)
this is an excellent thread with excellent debate absent of personal animous. that makes me happy. ;)
#197. To: FOH (#178)
I don't care to see what B.O., Hitlery OR McTraitor are going to do and doubt we'll get the opportunity to chat about it before long. meant to PiNg you!
#198. To: Cynicom (#195)
What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!
#199. To: Peppa (#197)
What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!
#200. To: robin (#139)
(Edited)
The Clinton years were bad, they were awful, but not as bad as the Bush years.
#201. To: FOH (#198)
Welcome to the New Communist World Order of One World Communist Monopolists...
#202. To: Cynicom (#201)
What North American Union? STOP the North American Union!
~~~~~> Have you seen THIS yet? TIME IS RUNNING OUT!
#203. To: FOH (#199)
I guess some folks will just go ahead and support a North American Unioner...sad.
#204. To: FOH (#202)
You're a North American now...
#205. To: FOH (#199)
#206. To: angle (#200)
#207. To: robin (#206)
The McCain years would be even worse.
#208. To: Cynicom (#207)
#209. To: aristeides, cynicom (#166)
He hasn't just taught the Constitution at probably the most conservative major law school in the country, the University of Chicago, he was repeatedly offered tenure there. (He didn't take it, because he didn't want to teach full-time.)
#210. To: aristeides (#162)
Obama, the civil libertarian.
#211. To: Jethro Tull (#154)
"What separates Obama from the others? This is the argument we've been having since RP did his duck and cover."
Obama for president 2008
#212. To: Peppa (#209)
(Edited)
The Law School has received many media requests about Barack Obama, especially about his status as "Senior Lecturer."
#213. To: All (#210)
Found this interesting post re: Universal Healthcare.. thought I would share.
#214. To: aristeides (#212)
Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined.
#215. To: JT, Hayek Fan, universal healthcare interested (#213)
#216. To: Peppa (#214)
Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined.
#217. To: All (#213)
Another interesting take on Universal Healthcare:
Here are a number of excellent posts regarding the issue, if you care to continue reading through them.
55.September 18th, 2007 8:49 am
Well said, my friend. I wouldn’t mind paying a few extra bucks either…that’s called community operating in the best interests of everybody. Tax dollars and receipts do NOT belong to the government…they are public funds that belong to the people who paid these taxes. That would be you and me. For those who insist that tax dollars and the federal government that takes them from us, shouldn’t be spending federal money on things like single payer, not for profit health care, I would ask you why you believe that this money is somehow ‘largesse’ from the government. It is not….it is our money, to be spent how WE, the people decide it will be spent. Government doesn’t have the right to exist in a democracy, unless it reflects and serves the will and the interests of the people, who ARE the government. Has everybody forgot their grade school civics lessons?
1. tax credits 2. tax subsidies as an incentive to buy insurance from these private insurance companies that are no better than professional pirates. 3. any involvement that uses the old model of private health companies like Kaiser-permanente, United, or the rest. Those companies must have their fangs removed from our new healthcare paradigm. Otherwise, we are wasting time and there is NOT going to be any change.
— Posted by Peter G.
— Posted by Mary Adams
— Posted by Steve Schuster
#218. To: aristeides (#216)
Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined. Before you crack a joke, you need to read more carefully.
#219. To: FOH, *California list* (#172)
Vote Republicrat or Democin, it doesn't matter, you still get McHillobama
#220. To: Peppa (#218)
There is no proof that he was offered tenure several times.
#221. To: aristeides (#220)
I stand corrected.
#222. To: aristeides (#220)
(Edited)
No proof, that is, if you don't find an official statement by the University of Chicago Law School to be evidence enough.
#223. To: Peppa (#222)
And did you read the link I provided above about that?
#224. To: aristeides (#223)
Especially when it happens to coincide with my own experience as a lecturer at Yale.
#225. To: aristeides (#223)
(Edited)
Yes, and I consider an official statement by the University of Chicago Law School to be better evidence. Especially when it happens to coincide with my own experience as a lecturer at Yale.
#226. To: Peppa, aristedes (#225)
I would say they were being politically careful, yet were taken to task on known definitions by others as well. Your experience as a lecturer at Yale then should by extention find it important that accuracy be maintained. However, the law means whatever you let people get away with at the moment. It may be rude of me to suggest that as a lecturer at Yale, I expect you to have a fine tuned ear and eye for BS.
#227. To: Cynicom (#226)
(Edited)
Ok Ari you been shelved by an expert, admit it.
#228. To: Pinguinite (#116)
...As a write in or is Clinton going 3rd party?
From Two Party System... ...to Two Family System.
#229. To: PnbC (#228)
#230. To: robin (#206)
The McCain years would be even worse.
#231. To: angle, christine, all (#230)
"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." ~ Mahatma Ghandi
#232. To: robin, All (#231)
"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." ~ Mahatma Ghandi
#233. To: wudidiz (#231)
#234. To: angle (#230)
#235. To: Cynicom (#226)
#236. To: Ferret Mike (#211)
#237. To: Jethro Tull (#205)
(Edited)
#238. To: Ferret Mike (#211)
#239. To: Jethro Tull (#125)
#240. To: Cynicom (#204)
Is there any country that will accept emigrees from NORTH AMERICA?
#241. To: farmfriend (#219)
Monday I'm going to a hearing at the state capitol for AJR 51. It is non binding but calls for the repeal of Real ID.
#242. To: tom007 (#240)
They like you a lot - boiled with garlic.
#243. To: tom007 (#240)
They like you a lot - boiled with garlic.
#244. To: christine (#242)
They like you a lot - boiled with garlic.
#245. To: Peppa (#241)
Vote Republicrat or Democin, it doesn't matter, you still get McHillobama
#246. To: Cynicom (#224)
I drove by Yale once, they told me to keep moving.
#247. To: RickyJ (#246)
Weird bunch I tell you.
#248. To: Cynicom (#243)
Maybe Turtle would let me become an Ozarker?
#249. To: Cynicom (#247)
#250. To: farmfriend (#245)
Since face recognition is only effective less than 40% of the time, what are the odds of false identification?
#251. To: aristeides (#249)
I only mentioned I was a lecturer at Yale because it was relevant to the discussion of Obama's academic status. Are we not supposed to present evidence of our personal experiences when they are relevant to a discussion?
#252. To: Cynicom, Ari, all (#251)
#253. To: Jethro Tull (#252)
ari: "I've lectured at Yale. Have you?"
#254. To: aristeides (#253)
#255. To: aristeides (#253)
#256. To: Peppa (#250)
The Real ID Act of 2005 was approved by both the House and Senate as part of the Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act for Defense, the Global War on Terror, and Tsunami Relief (H.R.1268) and signed into law on May 11, 2005 by President George W. Bush.[1]
Vote Republicrat or Democin, it doesn't matter, you still get McHillobama
#257. To: Jethro Tull, aristeides (#252)
ari: "I've lectured at Yale. Have you?"
#258. To: farmfriend (#256)
So they buried it in another bill no one would dare vote against. It was a unanimous vote in the Senate.
#259. To: Cynicom (#257)
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