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War, War, War
See other War, War, War Articles

Title: Top general in Iraq war to urge patience
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080408 ... t=AgFac3oOyRIXR8cRvqGoTcWs0NUE
Published: Apr 8, 2008
Author: ANNE FLAHERTY
Post Date: 2008-04-08 08:31:59 by angle
Keywords: None
Views: 326
Comments: 31

WASHINGTON - The four-star general in charge of Iraq wants more time in a war that is now in its sixth year. Democrats say he's got until the November elections.

Gen. David Petraeus planned to testify Tuesday on the war for the first time in seven months. He was expected to tell two Senate committees that last year's influx of 30,000 troops in Iraq had helped calm some of the sectarian violence but that to prevent a backslide in security, troops would likely be needed in large numbers through the end of the year.

Under his proposal, as many as 140,000 troops could be in Iraq when voters head to the polls this fall.

Democrats contend that this approach guarantees an open-ended commitment to a $10-billion-a-month war as the economy at home is faltering. They say the lack of political progress made in Iraq, as well as the recent spike in violence in Basra, indicates the troop buildup has failed.

"We need a strategy that will clearly shift the burden to the Iraqis, that'll begin to take the pressure off our forces, begin to allow us to respond to other challenges in the region and worldwide," said Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., a member of the Armed Services Committee.

Democrats also acknowledge that they are more or less helpless in trying to force President Bush's hand on the war. While anti-war legislation has been able to pass the House, it repeatedly sinks in the Senate, where Democrats lack the 60 votes needed to overcome procedural hurdles.

They contend, however, that come fall dissatisfied voters will head to the polls and put more Democrats in power, possibly including an anti-war president. In last month's Associated Press-Ipsos poll, only 31 percent said they approve of the job Bush is doing on Iraq.

Indeed, Tuesday's hearings are expected to be about as much as the presidential elections as they are about the state of Iraq. The three major candidates for president are on the committees for which Petraeus is providing testimony.

Sen. John McCain of Arizona, the No. 1 Republican on the Armed Services Committee, and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., a member of the panel, are expected to use the morning committee hearing to showcase their opposing views on the war. Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., will get his chance later that afternoon as member of the Foreign Relations Committee.

For now, Petraeus faces a dramatically different political landscape than last fall when support for the war had been eroding steadily among Republicans. Petraeus' testimony helped shore up GOP defections at the time. And since then, a significant drop in violence has helped stave off legislation ordering troops home.

Recent statistics reviewed by the AP show that while violence in Iraq is still down substantially, there have been spikes in both deaths and attacks since the slow withdrawal of U.S. troops began in December.

The internal strife was underscored by a rise in ethno-sectarian violence between Iraqis in March, the first such monthly increase since last July.

Defense officials also warned Monday of another likely spike in attacks this week, as U.S. forces strike back at militia fighters in Sadr City. And officials also said there are indications that al-Qaida is looking for an opportunity to reassert its influence in the Baghdad region.

With the Petraeus testimony approaching, only a subtle shift is expected in the GOP message. In addition to insisting that troops must stay in Iraq to fight the terrorists, which has been the party line for some time, Republicans are expected to talk more about the need for a comprehensive political settlement among Baghdad politicians. They believe that this tracks more closely with the voters' views that the U.S. commitment cannot be indefinite.

Petraeus' plan would allow the five extra brigades ordered to Iraq last year to withdraw by July without ordering their replacement. After that, he and other military officials would wait to see whether Iraq was stable enough to allow additional troops to leave.

His presentation was expected to include statistics reflecting the reduction in violence over the past seven months. It also will note the latest Iraqi-led operation in Basra and could give lawmakers more detail on the level of Iranian involvement in the fighting.

Ryan Crocker, the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, is expected to testify that there has been modest but positive political progress.

Also this week, possibly on Thursday when Bush addresses the nation on the war, the administration plans to announce that soldiers will spend no longer than 12 months at a time in combat, a decrease of three months in current combat tours.

I say ENOUGH.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 18.

#5. To: angle (#0)

Now that the war is won the Dimmies are urging a cut and run strategy. Hillary and Obama are the best political operatives President McCain could have.

Hagee  posted on  2008-04-08   9:20:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Hagee (#5)

Now that the war is won the Dimmies are urging a cut and run strategy.

Great, what do I win?

Maybe the US should try losing for once. WWI gave us WWII. WWII gave us the cold war. The Cold War gave the WOsT.

I say we give militant Isolation a try.

Pissed Off Janitor  posted on  2008-04-08   12:18:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Pissed Off Janitor (#12)

I say we give militant Isolation a try.

I like that term. We could aggressively avoid entanglements. Intervening in other peoples' conflicts sure hasn't done us a lot of good, unless the intent was to get embroiled in future ones.

I've grown weary of the speeches (especially from McCain) about how we can't abandon the Iraqis because without us they won't take over their responsibilities, which is a breathtaking statement he made last night or two nights ago to the VFW. His statement has to be truly offensive to any Iraqis, because he's implying that they're some kind of savages that without the magnanimous assistance of the indispensible nation they wouldn't be able to figure out a way to eventually stop killing each other. It's like he doesn't realize that Iraqis tend to LIVE IN IRAQ, so they would have a vested interest in figuring it out. There might be bloodshed involved in getting to that point, but it's not like it's a peaceful paradise now.

I'm confident that part of the increase in violence is specifically timed for now because of Petreus' testimony in front of Congress. There is a very large information warfare component to insurgencies and 4th Generation War, and they pay attention to what's going on, because part of their goal is to erode public support in the occupying land. Unless the occupier makes damned certain that under no circumstances will they ever leave, this kind of thing is going to go on. Pretty much the only way to assure the occupied land that you won't leave is if it's actually connected to you (like Russia and Chechnya).

In this respect the people who whine that the media erodes support are somewhat correct. The reason I say "somewhat" is that, even with a pretty effective control of media coverage to the Soviet Union about the situation in Afghanistan, the Soviets still decided they had a bad investment on their hands and that it was time to cut their losses. And the people who say that we handle Iraqis too gently (like we should be killing them like it's free, the supply is dwindling and everyone better hurry to get theirs) would need to look at how the Soviets dealt with Afghanistan, and see how effective it was for them. The Frunze Military Academy very early on (sometime around 1982) acknowledged that being too liberal with victory through firepower was counterproductive, and that for every one killed, four more began actively resisting. The Soviets' body count math got a little dodgy, too. Their numbers, when added up, indicate they killed the entire population at least once, and maybe twice, which obviously didn't happen.

historian1944  posted on  2008-04-08   13:40:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: historian1944 (#13)

His statement has to be truly offensive to any Iraqis, because he's implying that they're some kind of savages that without the magnanimous assistance of the indispensible nation they wouldn't be able to figure out a way to eventually stop killing each other. It's like he doesn't realize that Iraqis tend to LIVE IN IRAQ, so they would have a vested interest in figuring it out. There might be bloodshed involved in getting to that point, but it's not like it's a peaceful paradise now.

And Iraq has had recognized civilizations for how many millennia now?

robin  posted on  2008-04-08   14:59:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: robin (#16)

It's got to be a byproduct of an Americentric view that we're the only civilized place on earth and everyone else still has outhouses, no running water and uses horses as motive power to move things.

Sure, if we withdrawal there will be a host of problems (plus some problems due to excessive celebration), but there are already a host of problems, and our presence there doesn't help any. If you want a legitimate, recognized government, having the occupying force assist it in any operation (let alone a military operation with a desired end state in mind) only destroys that legitimacy and brands it as a puppet regime. Likewise the proclamations issued from our government directing them to do things and giving them deadlines.

Regardless of our actions, they will come up with a government that fits their local customs, culture, and expectations. There's no way around that, and we continuously believe that you can simply import a foreign system of government upon people without concern about their history, and all will be well. The idea is insane, and foolish. The question of when they come up with that government is only a function of how long we're there. The longer we're there, the more difficult for them, and the more expensive for us in lives and borrowed money.

If one looks at Vietnam today (a country we now trade with) can anyone say that their situation is better today because we were there for ten years four decades ago? Even worse for those who believe that the Vietnam War wasn't an epic fool's errand, the government is essentially the same as it was then, and we happily trade with them. So why'd we waste so many lives there, when we could have done the same thing in 1965?

historian1944  posted on  2008-04-08   15:11:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 18.

#19. To: historian1944 (#18)

There's no way around that, and we continuously believe that you can simply import a foreign system of government upon people without concern about their history, and all will be well. The idea is insane, and foolish.

And has cost us 4000 dead and a loss of one trillion dollars.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-08 15:15:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: historian1944 (#18)

But that's our oil under their sand, as Jim Hightower puts it.

What's best for the Iraqis has never been in the equation. When someone in charges realizes it is not even best for US, then maybe we'll get out.

robin  posted on  2008-04-08 15:25:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 18.

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