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Editorial
See other Editorial Articles

Title: Smear Of Ben Stein's Film 'Expelled' Already Begun
Source: News With Views
URL Source: http://www.rense.com/general81/conven.htm
Published: Apr 9, 2008
Author: Devvy Kidd
Post Date: 2008-04-09 19:49:47 by Horse
Keywords: None
Views: 955
Comments: 74

The big guns are coming out already.

This scorching is by Roger Friedman. Notice how he puts his own beliefs in wrapped up as "conventionally accepted Darwinism. "

Ben Stein: Win His Career By Roger Friedman

After seeing a new non-fiction film starring Comedy Central's Ben Stein, you may not only be able to win his money, but also his career.

Stein is that whiny little guy with the monotone voice that makes him seem funny and an unlikely "character" for TV appearances. But that career may be over come April 18 when a movie he co-wrote, narrates and appears in, called "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed," is released.

Directed by one Nathan Frankowski, "Expelled" is a sloppy, all-over-the-place, poorly made (and not just a little boring) "expose" of the scientific community. It's not very exciting. But it does show that Stein, who's carved out a career selling eye drops in commercials and amusing us on sitcoms, is either completely nuts or so avaricious that he's abandoned all good sense to make a buck.

To wit: Stein, Frankowski and pals say in "Expelled" that perfectly good scientists and educators are being stigmatized for wanting to teach their students creationism and "intelligent design" - in other words, junk science - in addition to or instead of conventionally accepted Darwinism. You see, Stein, like some other celebrities, finally has shown his true colors and they aren't so pretty.

The gist of Stein's involvement is: He's outraged! He believes in God! God created the universe! How can we not avail our students of this theory? What do you mean we're just molecules?

What the producers of this film would love, love, love is a controversy. That's because it's being marketed by the same people who brought us "The Passion of the Christ." They're hoping someone will latch onto an anti-Semitism theme here since there's a visit to a concentration camp and the raised idea - apparently typical of the intelligent design community - that somehow the theory of evolution is so evil that it caused the Holocaust. Alas, this is such a warped premise that no one's biting.

The whole idea of Stein, a Jew, jumping on the intelligent design bandwagon of the theory of evolution begetting the Nazis is so distasteful you wonder what in - sorry - God's name - he was thinking when he got into this. Who cares, really, if "Expelled" is anti-Semitic? It will come and go without much fanfare.

But Stein is another matter. Can he really be amusing selling eye drops or acting like a nebbish on game shows if we now have this new insight into his thinking?

You know Ben Stein from his voice. He used it to intone Ferris Bueller's name iconically at the beginning of that 20-year-old Matthew Broderick movie. His laconic delivery and deadpan presence have given him a benign celebrity - until now.

But this is what he wrote last fall on the "Expelled" movie Web site:

"Darwinism is still very much alive, utterly dominating biology. Despite the fact that no one has ever been able to prove the creation of a single distinct species by Darwinist means, Darwinism dominates the academy and the media. Darwinism also has not one meaningful word to say on the origins of organic life, a striking lacuna in a theory supposedly explaining life.

"Alas, Darwinism has had a far bloodier life span than Imperialism. Darwinism, perhaps mixed with Imperialism, gave us Social Darwinism, a form of racism so vicious that it countenanced the Holocaust against the Jews and mass murder of many other groups in the name of speeding along the evolutionary process."

In a word: Urgggh. Suddenly Stein is not so amusing anymore. I want my eye drops from someone else.

PS: Following "The Passion" release pattern, "Expelled" will open wide on the 18th but mostly in rural and poor neighborhoods. It's got just one theater in all of New York City, in Times Square, none in places like Beverly Hills or wealthier, better-educated urban neighborhoods where more "evolved" people might live.

According to the film's Web site, the producers are in a whopping 45 theaters in North Carolina, and a mere seven in Massachusetts, 35 in Georgia, 11 in New Jersey, four in Connecticut and one in Vermont. And so on. There are huge numbers of screens in Florida and Texas taking the film, particularly seven in San Antonio. If I lived in the Deep South, I'd boycott the filmmakers for thinking of me as this gullible and unsophisticated.

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,348468,00.html


Poster Comment:

Notice that this review from Friedman ran originally at FOX news which is supposed to be conservative. Actually, it is Zionist and changes sides when convenient. Currently, many conservatives are willing to kill Muslims for Israel so FOX is conservative.

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#35. To: ... (#33)

Intelligent Design is not a scientific theory, it's a conspiracy any more. It should be taught in a religious conspiracy study class.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-09   21:24:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: ... (#33)

The point I was trying to make was that it was the accepted scientific model and, as such, that is what should be taught in a science class.

Being Accepted Scientific Model simply isn't good enough for me anymore, I demand at least a frail connection to some sort of folk wisdom.

“Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life." - Jack Kerouac

Dakmar  posted on  2008-04-09   21:29:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: nobody (#35)

religious conspiracy study class

the next tv reality show?

“Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life." - Jack Kerouac

Dakmar  posted on  2008-04-09   21:30:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Dakmar (#37) (Edited)

"Christians and Conspiracy Theories"

www.acts17- 11.com/conspire.html

Favorite snippet:

10) Making Idols of Mere Men

Conspiracy Theory practitioners are miles away from "honoring the king," or showing "proper respect" for leaders. ...

Heads in the sand.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-09   21:38:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: nobody (#38)

Conspiracy Theory is more than just the belief in an occasional conspiracy. Simply put, it is a belief system that asserts that world events are being controlled in secret by a group of ultra-powerful puppeteers behind the scenes. While nothing much can be done about this overall conspiracy, at least we can have the satisfaction of being smart enough to have figured it all out.

That's hilarious. Us true illuminati know how to use puppets and flashcards to mezmerize your children, don't try to stop us or we'll call you haters of something or other. Just keep buying the plastic toys from China and everything will be alright.

“Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life." - Jack Kerouac

Dakmar  posted on  2008-04-09   21:48:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: nobody (#35)

Intelligent Design is not a scientific theory, it's a conspiracy any more. It should be taught in a religious conspiracy study class.

I agree, but I don't think people should be silenced about it. If they want to try to make a case for it in a legitimate way, they should be allowed to do so. A philosophy of science class or a grad seminar on weird theories would be the place. It's fine to discuss it in the proper place as long as the source [agenda driven religious types] and the nature [not accepted science] of the theory are made clear.

The only reason the religious kooks want it in a main line science class is to discredit the accepted theories on evolution. They can teach Intelligent Design to their congregation during Sunday service - so teaching their people isn't the real objective here.

And there may be some validity to the idea, though not on the level that the religious kooks operate on. Sir Walter Penrose, the dean of mathematics at Oxford, has written some good stuff about how consciousness and life are intrinsic properties of matter - and that there may be other laws governing the evolution of life and consciousness that we haven't yet discovered. The "intelligence" in Intelligent Design could be a yet undiscovered law of physics.

.

...  posted on  2008-04-09   21:52:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: YertleTurtle (#8)

You can't do it, only babble.

"If there is a God, prove it."

Gosh, with a theist, you get the same result. You can't do it. You can only babble.

America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.

mirage  posted on  2008-04-09   21:54:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: ... (#40)

A philosophy of science class

A philosophy of anti-science class.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-09   21:54:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Dakmar (#37) (Edited)

Religious creationists should just settle for anthropic principles (certain things are the way they are because otherwise we wouldn't be here to see them) wherever theory falls short. Closest thing to God that science has. All it takes logically is incoporating one's vision of God into one's reason for existence (typical) and equating that to the leftover unexplained "fine tuning" that theory says is responsible. Of course it is circular logic, but the will for life is like that.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-09   21:58:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: nobody (#42)

A philosophy of anti-science class.

Pseudo-science is a great topic for a philosophy of science class. My class used Scholasticism and Galileo as the bad example. Galileo asked the Schollastics to look through his telescope and tell him what they saw. They responded that it wasn't necessary to look through the telescope to know what was there.

A good teacher could get some fine points hammered home with a discussion of Intelligent Design as the fundies see it and push it.

.

...  posted on  2008-04-09   22:08:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: nobody (#43)

mama always said life was like a box of chicken, it come with two sides and a biscuit

And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot

Dakmar  posted on  2008-04-09   22:10:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: nobody (#43)

Religious creationists should just settle for anthropic principles (certain things are the way they are because otherwise we wouldn't be here to see them) wherever theory falls short.

I just wish they'd accept simple, cold, hard facts, like dinosaur bones are more than 6000 years old.

And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot

Dakmar  posted on  2008-04-09   22:14:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: ... (#44) (Edited)

When theory comes up with an uncountable number of universes, mostly unsurvivable, I suggest that if the theory is supposed correct (always doubtful as that is) we either have intelligent design making the survivable choice, supposedly, or uncountable blind trials, or perhaps some crazy fun but maybe a little egotistical time-reversing quantum anthropic combination of the two. Which one appeals to you?

I say scientists should intellectually always prefer the second choice, make the choice clear but respectful, and make no apology for it.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-09   22:19:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: nobody (#47)

Which one appeals to you?

I'm not sure. I think there is probably a basic principle somewhere that isn't yet understood. And when it is understood, things like the multiverse theory won't be needed to explain things.

I once saw someone demonstrate how all the weirdness dropped out the the double slit experiment if one of the photons had a twin traveling back in time. Everything became very simple and mundane. Even the weird instantaneous Cramer quantum entanglement stuff falls apart when something can go back in time. I think he calls it retrocausality and all the Alice in Wonderland stuff stops when you accept it.

I'm have no idea if things go back in time or not, but the complexity and non-intuitiveness of the model, and the fact that it is getting more complex, makes me think there is something basic that is being missed.

.

...  posted on  2008-04-09   22:47:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: YertleTurtle (#11)

Oddly, all I got from "religious" people were open-minded and tolerant.

probably because they agreed with you. try writing a pro-evolution or con- creation article and see what you get from religious people.

christine  posted on  2008-04-09   23:02:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: ... (#48) (Edited)

all the weirdness dropped out the the double slit experiment if one of the photons had a twin traveling back in time

Wheeler-Feynman Absorber Theory is that way.

I tend to think there's a continuum of photon energy in space (an invisible photonic sea) and everything emits photons at low energy and exists in perhaps some sort of fundamental resonant equilibrium with virtual photons at higher energies, so the slits radiate continuous virtual photonic wakes that interact with the experiment's photon source at the time the experiment's photons are generated. The "sea" organizes the photon energy as dynamic boundary conditions on the slit surfaces and these boundary conditions conduct photon energy to the other side of the slits where it converges to emit the result detected. Maybe I'm missing something.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-10   0:37:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Original_Intent, nobody, Dakmar (#38)

www.acts17-11.com/conspire.html

Please tell us what you think of this?


"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." ~ Mahatma Ghandi

wudidiz  posted on  2008-04-10   0:54:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: YertleTurtle, ..., ALL (#8)

Explain EXACTLY how one species turned into another.

You can't do it...

Genetic mutations and natural selection.


"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." ~ Mahatma Ghandi

wudidiz  posted on  2008-04-10   1:10:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Mudboy Slim (#5)

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek! "Ye gads Mable - they'll let anybody in here!"

Now all we need is Gomer, Yuktard, BadLie, and 'botsands and we can have a real donnybrook. ;-)

"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-04-10   1:54:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Cynicom, YertleTurtle (#2)

If you want to make a Darwinist froth tell them you believe in evolution but could you please explain exactly how one species turned into another?

Easy..

Your and my ancestors use to live in trees, eat bananas and fight over females, that is where all the strife started and the change of species. Was,nt that easy.

I do love bananas and the girls.

But how do the girls feel about your banana?

"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-04-10   1:57:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Horse, Wudidiz (#0)

I am disinclined to spend a lot of time on Darwinist spewing but can't resist pointing out the succession of fallacies and Ad Hominem attacks that Darwinian "True Believers" subsist on.

First a couple of key points:

Science is not an absolute - it is a method and means of uncovering new knowledge and in and of itself is only as accurate as the data and reasoning ability the practitioner has at their disposal.

A theory is a proposed explanation for an observed phenomena or set of phenomena. It is not an absolute, and it is NOT a fact. It is a proposed explanation subject to revision based upon observed evidence or to being completely discarded if new evidence makes it untenable as an explanation. It is a key point of the Scientific Method (key word that - "method") that no theory is sacred or to held in the face of contradictory data left unexplained within the framework of the existing "theory".

"A thousand experiments cannot prove me right. One can prove me wrong." ~ Albert Einstein

A Scientific argument is founded upon observed data and logical reasoning and the attempt to assert "authority" of any kind is always invalid in an argument adhering to the Scientific Method. Who said something is of no weight whatsoever - if one is practicing the Scientific Method.

So on to the case at hand. Rather than deconstruct the entire "piece" item by item I'll just take an example or two to illustrate the intellectual dishonesty of the author.

Notice the following:

" Stein is that whiny little guy with the monotone voice that makes him seem funny and an unlikely "character" for TV appearances."

This violates at least two logical fallacies and sets the tone for the "hit piece".

Loaded Words i.e., "whiny" and Argumentum Ad Hominem for the same reason. The writer is attempting to set up an unflattering image and prepare for a larger scale character attack.

Here we go hacking a little more:

Directed by one Nathan Frankowski, "Expelled" is a sloppy, all-over-the-place, poorly made (and not just a little boring) "expose" of the scientific community. It's not very exciting. But it does show that Stein, who's carved out a career selling eye drops in commercials and amusing us on sitcoms, is either completely nuts or so avaricious that he's abandoned all good sense to make a buck.

Notice again the use of loaded words (sloppy) followed by a characterization that is wholly unsupported by anything other than the writer's personal prejudices and venom. This is not a sound argument - it is not even a sound hatchet job. All we are treated to are irrelevancies i.e., Stein's commercial career which has what to do with the validity of the movie. No, the author is disingenuously trying to sell people on NOT attending the movie.

Here again another specious argument which is not only unsound but dishonest. Surprise!

What the producers of this film would love, love, love is a controversy. That's because it's being marketed by the same people who brought us "The Passion of the Christ." They're hoping someone will latch onto an anti-Semitism theme here since there's a visit to a concentration camp and the raised idea - apparently typical of the intelligent design community - that somehow the theory of evolution is so evil that it caused the Holocaust. Alas, this is such a warped premise that no one's biting.

First he imputes a motive, without any supporting evidence, that the choice of marketing people is somehow an attempt to latch onto the "anti-semitism" market which is also another backhanded smear in attempting to associate the film with anti-semitism. As for the Nazi philosophy of race it was based directly upon the Eugenics movement (see Social Darwinism) founded in England and the United States which formed the underpinnings of the Nazi delusion of the Aryan Superman as all being a matter of the right genes. Nazi ideology on race is all shot through with Dawinian Materialism. The dirty little secret though is that the idea did not originate with Hitler. People such as Saint Margaret Sanger of Planned Infanticide thought Hitler was on the right track and her written works are shot through with essentially the same materialistic racist viewpoints.

Notice in the following that the writer does not refute Stein but instead simply dismisses the argument by fiat without providing one ounce of refutation or sound reasoning.

Quoting Stein's Film: "Alas, Darwinism has had a far bloodier life span than Imperialism. Darwinism, perhaps mixed with Imperialism, gave us Social Darwinism, a form of racism so vicious that it countenanced the Holocaust against the Jews and mass murder of many other groups in the name of speeding along the evolutionary process."

In a word: Urgggh. Suddenly Stein is not so amusing anymore. I want my eye drops from someone else.

Suddenly I have the urge to regurgitate. Any moron who would buy this screed as valid review would also likely do something stupid like vote for John McLame.

"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-04-10   2:55:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Original_Intent, ALL (#55)

O_I rips up the hack.


"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." ~ Mahatma Ghandi

wudidiz  posted on  2008-04-10   5:44:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: mirage (#41)

Gosh, with a theist, you get the same result. You can't do it. You can only babble.

You don't know what I believe. I never said I was a theist or believe in God.

Every time I ask an evolutionist to explain exactly how one species turned into another, none can do so. They don't have the slightest idea how it happened.

Neither do you, hence your post.

"The evil man is the child grown strong" - Thomas Hobbes

YertleTurtle  posted on  2008-04-10   7:12:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: christine (#49)

probably because they agreed with you. try writing a pro-evolution or con- creation article and see what you get from religious people.

Nope. It was an article I wrote for LewRockwell, more as humor than anything else. The response surprised me.

The evolutionists,

to a person, were hateful, humorless, intolerant, and fanatical. The more religious people were open-minded and tolerant, even though I did not mention religion in the article.

That's when I decided evolution is a religion, a humorless and intolerant one. Through the years my opinon has been confirmed over and over.

"The evil man is the child grown strong" - Thomas Hobbes

YertleTurtle  posted on  2008-04-10   7:15:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: YertleTurtle (#58)

The evolutionists,

to a person, were hateful, humorless, intolerant, and fanatical. The more religious people were open-minded and tolerant

Please pause and rethink this statement. It simply doesn't square with the stereotypes we've all come to know and love.

I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-10   7:18:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: wudidiz (#52)

Genetic mutations and natural selection.

More obfuscation. As I've said many times before you can't do it.

I'll give you a hint as to how it might have work: chaos theory and self-organizing behavior. The weasel words "genetic mutation and natural selection" refer to nothing.

"The evil man is the child grown strong" - Thomas Hobbes

YertleTurtle  posted on  2008-04-10   7:19:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: YertleTurtle (#60)

Genetic mutations and natural selection.

More obfuscation. As I've said many times before you can't do it.

I'll give you a hint as to how it might have work: chaos theory and self-organizing behavior. The weasel words "genetic mutation and natural selection" refer to nothing.

Oh, fuck you.

I'll 'weasel word' you right outa here.

Genetic mutations and natural selection. That's how it happened. It's more than obvious to me. I'm just not so good at explaining it. Then I read ...'s answer and although similar, he explained it better than I.

Evolution IS Creation and vice versa.

chaos theory and self-organizing behavior

LOL

You're funny.


"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." ~ Mahatma Ghandi

wudidiz  posted on  2008-04-10   7:27:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: YertleTurtle, ... (#60)

I love you Mr. Turtle, because you make dumb guys like me look smart.


"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." ~ Mahatma Ghandi

wudidiz  posted on  2008-04-10   7:30:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Cynicom (#2) (Edited)

Your and my ancestors use to live in trees, eat bananas and fight over females, that is where all the strife started and the change of species.

It appears that some of our ancestors are recalcitrant to change. And who built the pyramids ... cavemen, apes or martians ?

I won't argue with you about "your" ancestors propensity for trees ... but puleeeze don't commit mine to the theory.

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

noone222  posted on  2008-04-10   7:37:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: noone222 (#63)

And who built the pyramids ...

Silly boy, you know perfectly well negroes built them, as they were responsible for all civilization. Perfessor Yacub and all that, you know.

"The evil man is the child grown strong" - Thomas Hobbes

YertleTurtle  posted on  2008-04-10   7:43:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: all (#64)

This freakin' YertleTurtle character's outa control.


"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." ~ Mahatma Ghandi

wudidiz  posted on  2008-04-10   7:45:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: wudidiz (#61)

Evolution IS Creation and vice versa.

chaos theory and self-organizing behavior

We live in a primordial soup that is more dark matter than light matter, in perpetual flux, and more invisible than visible ... I think the evolution vs. creation is a trick question !

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

noone222  posted on  2008-04-10   7:54:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: noone222 (#66)

I think the evolution vs. creation is a trick question !

If it is, it tricked me.


"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." ~ Mahatma Ghandi

wudidiz  posted on  2008-04-10   8:01:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: noone222, YertleTurtle (#66)

chaos theory and self-organizing behavior

I honestly have very little, if any, idea what the ____ that is supposed to mean.


"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." ~ Mahatma Ghandi

wudidiz  posted on  2008-04-10   8:32:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: YertleTurtle (#57)

You don't know what I believe. I never said I was a theist or believe in God.

My post never accused you of believing anything. You can stop being defensive now.

My post merely points out that the same answer you say an evolutionist gives is the same answer a theist must give. Can't prove it either way.

America is not at war. The military is at war. America is at the mall and the Congress is out to lunch.

mirage  posted on  2008-04-10   11:28:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: ... (#48) (Edited)

all the weirdness dropped out the the double slit experiment if one of the photons had a twin traveling back in time

This reminds me of the dichotomy of semiconductor holes vs. electrons - is there a hole going one way or an electron going the other way? But they're the same event. It's the context - what all the other electrons (or holes, if you prefer) are doing in coordination - that makes the difference.

In effect, an electron and hole combine and the hole disappears only to become a corresponding new hole (a leap of sorts) where the electron once was and a (perhaps) different electron to fill it.

Applying this to photons in space is similar to viewing the vacuum as some sort of degenerate state of a quark lattice, perhaps. I get the same impression from so-called superluminal experiments using a cesium vapor vacuum chamber or the like - the chamber appears to form a stabilized excited macroscopic cesium (or rubidium, etc.) quantum state, a chamber-sized immobilized "superatom" tuned vacuum lattice of sorts where energy (of a specific photon frequency) entering one side is always accompanied by the same sort of energy leaving the other side, seemingly beforehand and thus so surprisingly when not assuming causality going from the chamber's supposed exit to the entry (what I won't suppose here), perhaps not simultaneously, but seemingly superluminally. I'm suggesting that the interface at the "exit" appears to attract a reverse-moving tuned "photon hole" to it from the chamber boundary, and does so practically simultaneously (but not necessarily superluminally in that direction) as it accepts a photon at the "entry," and source of photons positioned in front of the chamber is mediating with the front of the chamber in a similar manner. I would say here that the optically flat chamber front is apparently saturating the signal laser source with laserlike photonic holes and some are absorbed thus do not reflect back and return, while others reflected away would be indirectly replaced.

The average vacuum is not tuned to any one appreciable frequency of photon and maybe this is what governs the apparent velocities, energies and throughput rate of photons (or before/after photon twins, being "identical" twins in energy and velocity if there is no bias of gravity) entering and leaving it.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-10   11:46:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Dakmar (#3)

I live in a structure framed and sided by dead trees.

The more things change...

...Both methods yielded similar results, which support the previous findings; that is, of all modern human samples, sub-Saharan Africans again exhibit the closest phenetic similarity to various African Plio-Pleistocene hominins...
Ancient teeth and modern human origins: An expanded comparison of African Plio-Pleistocene and recent world dental samples, Journal of Human Evolution Volume 45, Issue 2, August 2003, Pages 113-144

Tauzero  posted on  2008-04-10   12:44:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: ... (#48) (Edited)

all the weirdness dropped out the the double slit experiment if one of the photons had a twin traveling back in time

A photon is its own antiparticle, and going backward in time at light-speed is like going in the opposite direction at light-speed, I suppose.

I think the atoms in the cesium chamber vacuum are doing a sort of conga-line back and forth from one end to the other, maybe it looks like a double-helix, which is what I'd call a degenerate lattice. Anyway, it's like you hand one cesium atom a photon while it's reversing in a bounce of one end, and the atom hands a copy of the photon up the line to the next atom, etc, while they all move rapidly to the other side. The atoms then look like identical photonic holes when not holding on to an extra photon, except for a round-trip phase shift.

Just a wild guess. I don't mind guessing wrong.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-15   21:07:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: ... (#48)

FWIW (mostly just talking to myself at this point), I can't find anything on induced helical dynamics in cesium vapor/plasma. Cesium fascinates me. The chloride (very heavy and very salty) is used in plasmid centrifuge and there's a helical structure associated with a type of gramicidin associated with cesium, apparently (I don't know much about that at all). I do know it's extremely reactive and the ions are very large. The latter apparently gives one a longer range for a "leap" of the quantum variety.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   3:40:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: ... (#48) (Edited)

I have some notes on the Wheeler-Feynman model:

The Wheeler-Feynman model, called the “absorber theory of radiation” is a time- symmetric theory based partly on the assumption that every light wave emitted by an atom must be absorbed by another atom, and these two events should be considered as a single inseparable process. Another basis of the model is that atoms don’t interact with their own radiation, mass is presumed not to “self- interact” (when self-interaction is assumed, most reasonable models of the atom produce infinite self-interaction energy). So, by the model, the emitted wave has no recoil effect on the atom. Instead the atom’s recoil is caused by a light wave that travels backward in time from the atom that eventually absorbs the light. More specifically, atom A emits a half-sized wave without recoil, the wave hits atom B, which recoils, and atom B in turn emits a half-sized wave (without any resulting additional recoil) which travels backward in time to atom A, which recoils. ................................................

To my way of thinking, the half-wave going backward in time from B to A is no different from the half-wave going forward in time from A to B, so there’s really no need for an absorber.

Anyway, my source here is a book by Nick Herbert entitled "Faster than Light." The book also notes that most physicists accept the existence of self- interaction.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-19   1:42:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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