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Title: Obama on small-town PA: Clinging to religion, guns, xenophobia
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URL Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhi ... -surprise-that-ha_b_96188.html
Published: Apr 11, 2008
Author: Ben Smith
Post Date: 2008-04-11 19:39:50 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 5581
Comments: 263
Obama on small-town PA: Clinging to religion, guns, xenophobia Huffpo's Mayhill Fowler has more from Obama's remarks at a San Francisco fundraiser Sunday, and they include an attempt to explain the resentment in small-town Pennsylvania that won't be appreciated by some of the people whose votes Obama's seeking: You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations. That's a pretty broad list of things to explain with job loss.
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#85. To: aristeides (#80)
ari. Lets not go too deeply into political forecasts. Before you anointed Obama, you were selecting RPs VP, IIRC. Was it Kucinich or Gravel who captivated you most?
In answer to the Wilkes-Barre gentleman's question about low levels of national pride, Senator Obama said, in part, that a new generation needs to move into government service, for there is "something big and noble and exciting and important about serving the country." First, however, Senator Obama-- and also Senators Clinton and McCain-- must see us and talk about us in such a way that sets the bar high. A leader will hold us to that standard. "Californians and Pennsylvanians," our next president must say, "find your best selves in one another." Now, let's see, a draft would move a bunch of them in pretty quick.
You're overgeneralizing. I grew up in the Bronx (and was beaten by a black gang with baseball bats in Landover MD 12 years ago).
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
It's true I was overoptimistic about Ron Paul's chances. And I expressed preferences about who he might pick as VP. But I don't think I made any predictions about who he would pick. By the way, isn't Cynicom criticizing the Obamaphiles for all saying RP could not win. Isn't your posting testimony that he is wrong? Damned if you do, damned if you don't, it's looking like.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
robin... You see nothing in this to get upset about??? Every day, there are postings on this forum that prove the truth of Obama's statement.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
And that is a dangerous comment.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ElectoralCollege1928-Large.png It looks to me like the Deep South preferred Smith to Hoover. Their anti-GOP prejudice overcame their anti-Catholic prejudice at that point in our history. It is hard to explain to today's youth that Southerners were once as virulently opposed to the Republican Party as most of them today are to the Democratic Party. In 1928, people were still alive who remembered Lincoln ordering Sherman's March to the Sea.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
Speaking of predictions, weren't you telling all of us a while ago that the Rev. Wright's comments had destroyed Obama's political chances?
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Funny. "They were in full cry". I don't remember saying that. I can only remember perhaps one of the posters currently favoring Obama saying something like that. Am I misremembering? I believe I was one of those. I stated not only that RP was going to win ZERO primaries but that his running for the GOP nomination was going to hurt not help the cause of freedom because his run was going to help legitimize the GOP and the 2-party scheme. I believe that I was correct on both counts.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
In 1928, the Republicans and Hoover took half the formerly solidly Democratic South.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Before the American Revolution, Philadelphia had a large population of slaves.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Amazing, today Obama feels the heat and admits his improper wording. Strange, now Obama sees his insults but his white guilter grovelers here disagree with Obama. Odd, Obama says I made a mistake but his worshippers deny it. Oh well. "Barack Obama admitted Saturday that he chose his words poorly when he told a group of California donors that small-town Americans “cling” to guns and religion and xenophobia out of bitterness over lost jobs, but for the second day in a row stood by the comments and weathered pointed criticism from Hillary Clinton."
Granted, but the worst rural Southern prejudices have always been found in the states of the Deep South (that's where most of the violence broke out during the Civil Rights Era) and Smith carried those. Texas, Virginia and Florida are on the periphery of the Deep South, albeit all three seceded and had to endure Mr. Lincoln's "charms" to bring them back. I work with a lady who is originally from Mississippi. She was shocked to learn that Virginia is considered a Southern state. She said she consider them to be Yankees.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
It's true Obama says he could have expressed himself better. But what in what he said is untrue?
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
In 1928, that "periphery" extended as far deep as North Carolina. And, at the time, Florida and Texas were pretty Deep South.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
The fact Obama has the racial background he does is a welcome change, but not enough to decide to vote for someone. I support him pure and simple as the best individual in this race where the contestants have to get the nod by the power elite of actually choosing to do a good job as POTUS and has the talents politically to do it well. You are hug up on this model of claiming supporters are hung up on a model of being weak in the knees in the face of a great black hope and this is actually a paradox where you do much of what you accuse others are doing. I know you won't agree, but that is the way I see it. Obama is actually lighter then many Caucasians I know. I am a quarter Puerto Rican and when I work in the sun - and I have as a forest worker and a bicyclist - I am darker then he is. Though perhaps he could out tan me, who is to say? My point is of course that skin coloring, hair type, lip or nose shape, or whatever esthetics people get hung up on, it means nothing about the value of each individual human being when all the bull shit about race is analyzed and but to bed and you look finally solely at a person on the basis of what they are as human beings. Obama could be plaid for all I care if he is a candidate who could chose to be a good POTUS that restores Constitutional government; I know that merely by blocking two proven to be insane and selfish opponents as the first plus of him winning is a bleak way to look at this, but definitely realistic. The lesser evil argument has a life of it's own because of that, but I don't see this as something that will go away any time soon. The powers that be are not going to give up their hold on making the choices of who are choices will be, not without a fight anyway. This is just my opinion on the matter, I am not interested in focusing all election cycle on minor details such as what ethnic or racial background any candidate has. There are just too many other things to worry about.
Only a Paul, or Barr, presidency would offer a small glimmer of hope for a change.imo
hell no.
First lets see who does NOT agree with you. Obama himself. Hillary Clinton, fellow democrat. McKooK, "adversary" republican. And last but not least most of the major media outlets. Therefore you are placing yourself with the elitist views of white rural America. Actually Ari, I am not surprised, as you have always had elitist views here which I and other tolerate.
This is an absurd analysis.
Did you or did you not just yesterday comment that you hope he wins?
That's sad. The dumbing-down must be near complete.
see orangedog's post here. i don't know why you would expect that Obama would restore constitutional government. ok, he said he'd restore habeas corpus, but look at his position on the 2nd and remember he voted for the Patriot Act. i do agree that if he truly were a constitutionalist, i wouldn't care what color he is.
That they suupport gun rights, don't support illegal immigration or are anti- NAFTA becasue they're bitter they don't have jobs? WTF is wrong with you?
He's not talking about Philly. You talk like you know something about Pennsylvania...do you?
Peas in a pod.
Correct, peas in a pod, however to be fair, you must admit there is ZERO support here for Clinton and McKooK.
A BHO presidency would show how little difference the sock-puppet makes to the controllers. The two guys who are my age, smirk & bentmember, have done such an amazingly disgusting job, that I'm ready for a nominal change.
Black migration into the city was heavy from the end of the Revolution until about 1815. People came from rural areas in a hundred-mile radius around Philadelphia, as well as from the South, attracted by job prospects and the promise of living among other free black people. Refugees from the revolution in St. Domingue (later Haiti) and fugitive slaves added to the influx of blacks in the city. Philadelphia was over 90 percent white, but its black community helped buffer the hostility of whites and provided an alternative to rural isolation. Many blacks were able to find work as mariners, day laborers and domestic servants. Many also worked as entrepreneurs, often serving a predominantly black clientele. Both men and women often worked to support their families. While some destitute blacks lived near the river, a few prospered and were able to invest in income-producing property. By 1796, black communities were growing along the northern and southern borders of the city. By 1830, all of the city's 14,500 black people were free, while the white population had grown to 150,000. After 1799, a small but growing number of black professionals included doctors, teachers, clergymen, hairdressers, shoemakers, bakers, tailors, sailmakers, teamsters, food caterers, carpenters, musicians, and many other professions. In 1811, the city directory listed 81 black men who owned their own businesses; by 1816, the number was 180. Most women worked as domestic laborers, but some were teachers, or owned their own businesses. Together these people created a black middle class. more from that link I posted yesterday... www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part3/3narr1.html If there were Blacks in Philly before 1776, it should not be surprising there are Blacks in the rural areas as well. I have ancestors from PA, Germans who settled there after being burnt out of Catholic strongholds during the 30 Years War. My interest in PA is more historical than anything else. Cyni was attempting to make it sound like Blacks had just arrived in PA, I linked to some history that shows that is not the case.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
Wow.
I do too. ;)
robin... I think if you read back you will see I refer to myself as....hill billy white trash........that hardly encompasses Philly which is nearly all black.
So why did you insinuate that Blacks are new to PA?
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
No he wasn't. He lives in rural NE PA. He was commenting that his area had had few blacks. If there were Blacks in Philly before 1776, it should not be surprising there are Blacks in the rural areas as well. Do you know much about small towns and rural areas in PA? I don't think you do becasue your comments make it seem that your familiarity is in liberal urban areas.
robin... Blacks are NEW here in the hills where I live. That was plain in my post as I said they were all on welfare, none work and they all live in subsidized housing.
Yes, I see some support Obama, but I don't get it.
And the link I gave you specifically says the Blacks in Philly came from the rural areas into the city. Therefore, they are NOT new to the rural areas of PA. They were once living as slaves in PA rural areas. Here's another link on this: www.slavenorth.com/pennsylvania.htm SLAVERY in PENNSYLVANIA In the early 1600s, the Delaware Valley was an outlying region of the New Netherland colony on the Hudson, governed by the Dutch West India Company and populated by Dutch and Swedes more interested in fur trapping than farming. It faced the same labor shortage that plagued New Netherland, and it found the same solution. African slaves were working there as early as 1639. In 1664, the Delaware settlers contracted the West India Company "to transport hither a lot of Negroes for agricultural purposes."
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
I'm not sure where Cyni is talking about but blacks are new to certain areas. The Pocono region has become a Western suburb of NYC (2 hours away), with low taxes and new tracts of reasonable, new cost housing. There is, or was, a complete absence of crime b/c of the gun culture is exceptional strong.
Whatever...there's bigger disappointments than your complacency.
Same with Switzerland, but then they also have a relatively to very well-off homogeneous population. I once saw a 60 Minutes (I think) segment on how the Swiss got rid of their Gypsy crime problem; in the 1950s they kidnapped all the children of Gypsies and adopted them out to good Swiss families. Brutal but effective (I'm not in favor of such methods, but it's better than the Nazi solution for Gypsies).
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
[Smith] did carry the Deep South, thanks in part to his running mate, Senator Joseph Robinson from Arkansas....
The U.S. Constitution is no impediment to our form of government.--PJ O'Rourke
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestSpeaking of shame, will you admit you were wrong when Hillary does not get the presidential nomination?
#86. To: All (#82)
Obama: No Surprise That Hard-Pressed Pennsylvanians Turn Bitter www.huffingtonpost.com/ma...rise-that-ha_b_96188.html
#87. To: Jethro Tull (#50)
I grew up in Brooklyn and spent nearly 15 years in the NYPD so I have friend and foes who are black. It's the sheltered closet liberals who fawn over the Big O simply b/c he's black.
#88. To: Jethro Tull, Cynicom (#85)
Before you anointed Obama, you were selecting RPs VP, IIRC.
#89. To: Cynicom (#12)
they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
#90. To: IndieTX (#33)
This is a dangerous man.
#91. To: iconoclast (#77)
Because if he fails it will be for the same reason as Al did, rural and southern prejudice.
#92. To: Jethro Tull (#41)
#93. To: aristeides, Cynicom (#79)
Yet when Paul was running they were in full cry that he could not win.
#94. To: Sam Houston (#91)
#95. To: iconoclast (#45)
I think Philly has had Blacks for many years.
#96. To: Jethro Tull, robin (#85)
#97. To: aristeides (#94)
#98. To: Cynicom (#96)
#99. To: Sam Houston (#97)
#100. To: Jethro Tull (#85)
Obama for president 2008
#101. To: Jethro Tull. The thread (#71)
But I must admit I have noooooooooo idea how anyone could hold, at this moment in time, that one branch of the Party is superior than the other.
#102. To: lodwick (#101)
or Barr
#103. To: aristeides (#98)
But what in what he said is untrue?
#104. To: christine (#0)
"...they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
#105. To: Jethro Tull (#64)
He's not getting my vote.
#106. To: Sam Houston (#97)
I work with a lady who is originally from Mississippi. She was shocked to learn that Virginia is considered a Southern state. She said she consider them to be Yankees.
#107. To: Ferret Mike, orangedog (#100)
Obama restoring constitutional government?
#108. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#3)
I believe that the essence of what he said is true.
#109. To: robin (#5)
(Edited)
I think Philly has had Blacks for many years.
#110. To: Cynicom (#9)
(McCain's) Schmidt also said it shows Obama views the people he’s trying to relate to with “contempt.”
#111. To: angle (#110)
#112. To: Ferret Mike. The thread (#100)
I am not interested in focusing all election cycle on minor details such as what ethnic or racial background any candidate has. There are just too many other things to worry about.
#113. To: angle (#109)
#114. To: robin (#11)
I see nothing in this to get upset about.
#115. To: angle (#105)
Did you or did you not just yesterday comment that you hope he wins?
#116. To: robin (#113)
Cyni was attempting to make it sound like Blacks had just arrived in PA,
#117. To: Cynicom (#116)
#118. To: robin (#113)
Cyni was attempting to make it sound like Blacks had just arrived in PA
#119. To: robin (#117)
#120. To: Cynicom (#111)
you must admit there is ZERO support here for Clinton and McKooK
#121. To: Cynicom (#119)
#122. To: robin (#117)
So why did you insinuate that Blacks are new to PA?
#123. To: christine (#115)
I do too. ;)
#124. To: Jethro Tull (#122)
a complete absence of crime b/c of the gun culture is exceptional strong.
#125. To: iconoclast (#77)
Because if he fails it will be for the same reason as Al did, rural and southern prejudice.
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