See other (s)Elections Articles
Title: Obama on small-town PA: Clinging to religion, guns, xenophobia
Source:
[None]
URL Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhi ... -surprise-that-ha_b_96188.html
Published: Apr 11, 2008
Author: Ben Smith
Post Date: 2008-04-11 19:39:50 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 5997
Comments: 263
Obama on small-town PA: Clinging to religion, guns, xenophobia Huffpo's Mayhill Fowler has more from Obama's remarks at a San Francisco fundraiser Sunday, and they include an attempt to explain the resentment in small-town Pennsylvania that won't be appreciated by some of the people whose votes Obama's seeking: You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations. That's a pretty broad list of things to explain with job loss.
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
Comments (1-109) not displayed.
.
.
.
#110. To: Cynicom (#9)
Peas in a pod.
Correct, peas in a pod, however to be fair, you must admit there is ZERO support here for Clinton and McKooK.
A BHO presidency would show how little difference the sock-puppet makes to the controllers. The two guys who are my age, smirk & bentmember, have done such an amazingly disgusting job, that I'm ready for a nominal change.
Black migration into the city was heavy from the end of the Revolution until about 1815. People came from rural areas in a hundred-mile radius around Philadelphia, as well as from the South, attracted by job prospects and the promise of living among other free black people. Refugees from the revolution in St. Domingue (later Haiti) and fugitive slaves added to the influx of blacks in the city. Philadelphia was over 90 percent white, but its black community helped buffer the hostility of whites and provided an alternative to rural isolation. Many blacks were able to find work as mariners, day laborers and domestic servants. Many also worked as entrepreneurs, often serving a predominantly black clientele. Both men and women often worked to support their families. While some destitute blacks lived near the river, a few prospered and were able to invest in income-producing property. By 1796, black communities were growing along the northern and southern borders of the city. By 1830, all of the city's 14,500 black people were free, while the white population had grown to 150,000. After 1799, a small but growing number of black professionals included doctors, teachers, clergymen, hairdressers, shoemakers, bakers, tailors, sailmakers, teamsters, food caterers, carpenters, musicians, and many other professions. In 1811, the city directory listed 81 black men who owned their own businesses; by 1816, the number was 180. Most women worked as domestic laborers, but some were teachers, or owned their own businesses. Together these people created a black middle class. more from that link I posted yesterday... www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part3/3narr1.html If there were Blacks in Philly before 1776, it should not be surprising there are Blacks in the rural areas as well. I have ancestors from PA, Germans who settled there after being burnt out of Catholic strongholds during the 30 Years War. My interest in PA is more historical than anything else. Cyni was attempting to make it sound like Blacks had just arrived in PA, I linked to some history that shows that is not the case.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
Wow.
I do too. ;)
robin... I think if you read back you will see I refer to myself as....hill billy white trash........that hardly encompasses Philly which is nearly all black.
So why did you insinuate that Blacks are new to PA?
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
No he wasn't. He lives in rural NE PA. He was commenting that his area had had few blacks. If there were Blacks in Philly before 1776, it should not be surprising there are Blacks in the rural areas as well. Do you know much about small towns and rural areas in PA? I don't think you do becasue your comments make it seem that your familiarity is in liberal urban areas.
robin... Blacks are NEW here in the hills where I live. That was plain in my post as I said they were all on welfare, none work and they all live in subsidized housing.
Yes, I see some support Obama, but I don't get it.
And the link I gave you specifically says the Blacks in Philly came from the rural areas into the city. Therefore, they are NOT new to the rural areas of PA. They were once living as slaves in PA rural areas. Here's another link on this: www.slavenorth.com/pennsylvania.htm SLAVERY in PENNSYLVANIA In the early 1600s, the Delaware Valley was an outlying region of the New Netherland colony on the Hudson, governed by the Dutch West India Company and populated by Dutch and Swedes more interested in fur trapping than farming. It faced the same labor shortage that plagued New Netherland, and it found the same solution. African slaves were working there as early as 1639. In 1664, the Delaware settlers contracted the West India Company "to transport hither a lot of Negroes for agricultural purposes."
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
I'm not sure where Cyni is talking about but blacks are new to certain areas. The Pocono region has become a Western suburb of NYC (2 hours away), with low taxes and new tracts of reasonable, new cost housing. There is, or was, a complete absence of crime b/c of the gun culture is exceptional strong.
Whatever...there's bigger disappointments than your complacency.
Same with Switzerland, but then they also have a relatively to very well-off homogeneous population. I once saw a 60 Minutes (I think) segment on how the Swiss got rid of their Gypsy crime problem; in the 1950s they kidnapped all the children of Gypsies and adopted them out to good Swiss families. Brutal but effective (I'm not in favor of such methods, but it's better than the Nazi solution for Gypsies).
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
[Smith] did carry the Deep South, thanks in part to his running mate, Senator Joseph Robinson from Arkansas....
The U.S. Constitution is no impediment to our form of government.--PJ O'Rourke
Most Southerners are not virulently opposed to the Democratic Party. Check the makeup of legislatures in the South.
The U.S. Constitution is no impediment to our form of government.--PJ O'Rourke
i think you missed my point. this is my reason. "so that either the O'philes or the O'phobes get the Op to say "I told you so." since we know, we're going to be given one of the 3 (assuming there's not a Ron Paul miracle), i want to see what Obama will do. otherwise, it will always be 'what if' and the disagreement among us regarding him will never be resolved.
What indications of this have you seen? The powers that be are not going to give up their hold on making the choices of who are choices will be, not without a fight anyway. On what basis do you conclude that Obama is not one of their choices?
The U.S. Constitution is no impediment to our form of government.--PJ O'Rourke
True, they aren't under active invasion by 3rd worlders nor do they have politicians like Mayor Nutter of Philadelphia who removes law (never mind constitutional rights) with the wave of his hand.
The thing is, no matter who wins, there will be plenty of opportunities for "I told you so". We'll never know how bad or good it would have been had the other candidate won, unless you believe it makes no difference whatsoever. I believe it makes some difference (but will it be enough difference?). For example, would an Al Gore presidency have been different? Some say no. I cannot prove it would have been different, but I can point to the Clinton years as less damaging than the Bush years.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
Plus, they fiercely guard their borders: best you have a valid reason to be in their country or you're toast.
The Swiss are also very protectionist regarding trade, although they think so-called "free trade" is great for everyone else.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
all of us on 4 are in agreement on mcCain and hillary. it's obama we're in disagreement on. i'd like a resolution on this and, truly, if i'm wrong and obama proves to be "enough of a difference," i'll be happy to get an "i told you so." ;)
It would not surprise me if we have a few here who will vote for McCain.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
He has the opportunity to show he is not just about rhetoric and a fresh start that will invigorate things undoing the damage Bush and company has done, or he can turn out to be a patsy and all this the most two dimensional of electioneering rhetoric possible to produce. He too can be an 'appointment' that angers his benefators as much as it has people who turned up to support the wrong Associate Justice being appointed to the Supreme Court have. I vote on my hopes as well as my take on a person, which some won't do anymore which is fine, I understand their rational too. I am going to vote for Obama based on an intelligent guess and gut feeling as much as for any reason. Just as I will do some of the usual grunt work for his campaign to give me a better feel about him and the body of voters must supporting him as much for any other reason to do that sort of grass roots work.
Adj. 1. xenophobic - suffering from xenophobia; having abnormal fear or hatred of the strange or foreign afraid - filled with fear or apprehension; "afraid even to turn his head"; "suddenly looked afraid"; "afraid for his life"; "afraid of snakes"; "afraid to ask questions"
The Clinton years were not less damaging than the Bush years in the least. Just becasue we had no 9/11, no Iraq war, and no recession hardly means they were less damaging. You are not the only one who thinks this, but it is not correct thinking at all. Clinton was responsible for China getting the nuclear missile technology to be able to launch ICBMs that can reach American soil. That is extremely damaging to this nation's future. Clinton was responsible for the massacre of the Christian Serbs in Kosovo, and the bombing of Christian churches almost 1000 years old. And the only reason we didn't have a recession while he was President was due to the dot com bubble and the Fed pumping enormous amounts of money into the economy.
God is always good!
Edited: I misread your post. Thought you were supporting Obama, sorry.
God is always good!
You left out Waco, where women and children were slaughtered by the dozens and Americans said nothing. That was the first time in our history that we learned that the President of the US could and did kill Americans without a hint of retribution.
I had read what you said about why you "want Obama to win". Do you seriously believe that any Obama failure will resolve "the disagreement among us?" Any failure will be rationalized as due to forces beyond his control. Our country is lost and the likes of McWar, Rodham or Obama aren't the sort to set it straight. The election is merely a distraction for the plebes away from any cause to set right what's left of this ship of state. Pandering to the "believers" is simply wasted effort. They can't see the danger. Throwing your lot in with them is just more obfuscation and is a detriment to this forum, the way I see it. No offense intended.
China didn't need our technology. It helped some and I'm sure the PLA gleaned all it could from Loral and Bernard Schwartz, but the Chinese are very smart people to begin with. The Chinese invented gunpowder. If China is such a threat, why didn't we stop everything back in 1964 when it joined the nuclear club and scream to all the world that we had to stop the crazy Chinese from getting nukes the way we do now with Iran?
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
Are you outta yo damn mind? He laid the groundwork for the corporate takeover of America.
Lets not forget Clinton gave us an imperial presidency, one where a treaty - NAFTA - was disguised as an agreement, he destroyed posse comitatus at Waco, and ruled by executive order, "Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Kind of cool," sais former Clinton adviser Paul Begala. On his last day in office Clinton's EOs freed convicted drug dealer and turned over the deed to thousand of acres of acres of land to the government among other insults. As I have said from the beginning of this debate, with each successive presidency during my lifetime we have become less free. If hope is all one can use to advance Obama, given all he has said, the words of Pogo would make a fitting epitaph; "We have met the enemy and he is us."
Much easier for politicians to stick to the polically correct talking points. Pointing out the obvious, especially about ourselves, doesn't win votes. Feed the masses what they want to hear even if it doesn't match up with reality.
Absolutely. Most of the opposition to immigration and trade comes from those who are affected by it or whose lifestyles or survival is threatened by them. Did you think it was different. As for people going to church more often when they are insecure - this is not news to you, or it shouldn't be. And anyone feeling angry and discouraged and caring more about their little shooters under such circumstances... of course they do and of course they are. You don't believe that it is so?
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
That's becasue you might be blind and just don't know it. Forget Obama, he won't help you or this nation.
God is always good!
It is amazing. Absolutely amazing that a 4UM regular poster could say something like this. Makes one wonder if this is the real Robin or an impostor.
God is always good!
He was in a series that allowed this, but the Clinton years were not half as bad as the Bush years.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
Swiss row over black sheep poster BBC News, Geneva A political row has broken out in Switzerland over a campaign poster from the right-wing Swiss People's Party, aimed at deporting foreigners - residents without Swiss citizenship - who commit crimes. The poster, which shows three white sheep kicking a black sheep against a backdrop of the Swiss flag, can be seen all over the country ahead of general elections at the end of October. Swiss People's Party poster The controversial poster bears the slogan "For more security" Immigrant groups in Switzerland, left-wing parties and the United Nations complain that the poster is blatantly racist. The Swiss People's Party, currently the largest in parliament and leading in the opinion polls, is pushing for a new law which would authorise the expulsion of foreign families, should any family member be found guilty of violent crime, drugs offences or benefit fraud. Over 20% of Switzerland's population is foreign. Most have been in the country for many years, and around a third of them were born in Switzerland. Swiss citizenship remains very difficult to come by, and being born in the country does not give the children or even grandchildren of immigrants the right to be Swiss. Crime figures The Swiss People's Party claims that foreigners commit more crimes than the Swiss, and says this justifies deporting them and their families. In fact, crime statistics are not at all clear, partly because not all Swiss regions count crime in the same way. A recent study by the Federal Department for Foreigners found that while, at first glance, foreigners appear to be committing more crime than the Swiss, foreigners, especially young men, are also more likely to be charged - whereas young Swiss may be let off with a caution for the same offence. The study also found that young foreigners living in Switzerland were more likely to be unemployed and living in socially deprived backgrounds, than the Swiss. But despite the complex nature of the problem, the blunt approach has clearly struck a chord with many voters. Matthias Mueller, spokesman for the party, says the campaign has attracted huge support. "We've had an unbelievably positive response," he said. "It shows just how necessary our campaign is." Storm of criticism But now that the poster is visible all over Switzerland, there has been a storm of criticism too. Swiss Jewish groups say the symbolism of the poster, and its use of colour, is frighteningly reminiscent of Nazi propaganda. "I think it's a disgusting way to conduct politics," said Alfred Donath, president of the Swiss Federation of Jewish Communities. "It is entirely contrary to Switzerland's humanitarian tradition, and really not the way we should do things." Meanwhile the United Nations special rapporteur on racial discrimination, Doudou Diene from Senegal, has asked the Swiss government for an official explanation of the campaign. The Swiss People's Party, which wants to pull Switzerland out of the UN Convention against Racism, and abolish the country's own Federal Commission on Racism, is dismissive of UN opinion. "The UN should not be meddling in internal Swiss politics," said Matthias Mueller. "We have got freedom of speech in our country. Obviously [Mr Diene] has not understood our culture of democracy. I would suggest he reads up on it." Video withdrawn The Swiss People's Party is used to criticism of its tactics, but this time there are signs it may have gone too far. Another poster, showing veiled Muslim women accompanied by the question, "Where are we living, Baden or Baghdad?", is now the subject of an investigation to determine whether it violates Switzerland's anti-racism laws. Meanwhile, a campaign video showing what it is claimed are young hooded foreigners committing violent crimes was withdrawn after the Swiss youngsters who actually took part complained they had been told they were taking part in a crime-prevention video. And across the country, hundreds of the black sheep posters have been defaced, many with a single word - "Shame".
The U.S. Constitution is no impediment to our form of government.--PJ O'Rourke
No one forgets Waco, are you suggesting that the Bush years are better than the Clinton years?
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
Comments (151 - 263) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest(McCain's) Schmidt also said it shows Obama views the people he’s trying to relate to with “contempt.”
#111. To: angle (#110)
#112. To: Ferret Mike. The thread (#100)
I am not interested in focusing all election cycle on minor details such as what ethnic or racial background any candidate has. There are just too many other things to worry about.
#113. To: angle (#109)
#114. To: robin (#11)
I see nothing in this to get upset about.
#115. To: angle (#105)
Did you or did you not just yesterday comment that you hope he wins?
#116. To: robin (#113)
Cyni was attempting to make it sound like Blacks had just arrived in PA,
#117. To: Cynicom (#116)
#118. To: robin (#113)
Cyni was attempting to make it sound like Blacks had just arrived in PA
#119. To: robin (#117)
#120. To: Cynicom (#111)
you must admit there is ZERO support here for Clinton and McKooK
#121. To: Cynicom (#119)
#122. To: robin (#117)
So why did you insinuate that Blacks are new to PA?
#123. To: christine (#115)
I do too. ;)
#124. To: Jethro Tull (#122)
a complete absence of crime b/c of the gun culture is exceptional strong.
#125. To: iconoclast (#77)
Because if he fails it will be for the same reason as Al did, rural and southern prejudice.
#126. To: Sam Houston (#91)
Southerners were once as virulently opposed to the Republican Party as most of them today are to the Democratic Party.
#127. To: angle (#123)
(Edited)
#128. To: Ferret Mike (#100)
if he is a candidate who could chose to be a good POTUS that restores Constitutional government;
#129. To: robin (#124)
Same with Switzerland, but then they also have a relatively to very well-off homogeneous population
#130. To: christine (#127)
(Edited)
#131. To: robin (#124)
Same with Switzerland, but then they also have a relatively to very well-off homogeneous population.
#132. To: lodwick, Jethro Tull (#131)
#133. To: robin (#130)
#134. To: christine (#133)
#135. To: DeaconBenjamin (#128)
(Edited)
Obama for president 2008
#136. To: robin (#134)
robin... With Obummers comments, it seems that xenophobia, is not really descriptive as a noun. His insults are more fitting as an adjetive, as below.
#137. To: robin (#130)
(Edited)
For example, would an Al Gore presidency have been different? Some say no. I cannot prove it would have been different, but I can point to the Clinton years as less damaging than the Bush years.
#138. To: christine (#133)
(Edited)
all of us on 4 are in agreement on mcCain and hillary. it's obama we're in disagreement on. i'd like a resolution on this and, truly, if i'm wrong and obama proves to be "enough of a difference," i'll be happy to get an "i told you so." ;)
#139. To: RickyJ, robin, christine, Jethro Tull (#137)
The Clinton years were not less damaging than the Bush years in the least.
#140. To: christine (#127)
i think you missed my point.
#141. To: RickyJ (#137)
#142. To: robin (#130)
I can point to the Clinton years as less damaging than the Bush years.
#143. To: RickyJ (#137)
#144. To: aristeides (#84)
(Edited)
When was the last time a politician said that much that is truthful?
#145. To: angle (#108)
That they suupport gun rights, don't support illegal immigration or are anti- NAFTA becasue they're bitter they don't have jobs? WTF is wrong with you?
#146. To: robin (#11)
I see nothing in this to get upset about.
#147. To: angle (#114)
Robin: I see nothing in this to get upset about.
Wow.
#148. To: angle (#142)
#149. To: Jethro Tull (#129)
True, they aren't under active invasion by 3rd worlders
#150. To: Cynicom (#139)
.
.
.