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Title: Obama on small-town PA: Clinging to religion, guns, xenophobia
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhi ... -surprise-that-ha_b_96188.html
Published: Apr 11, 2008
Author: Ben Smith
Post Date: 2008-04-11 19:39:50 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 6015
Comments: 263

Obama on small-town PA: Clinging to religion, guns, xenophobia

Huffpo's Mayhill Fowler has more from Obama's remarks at a San Francisco fundraiser Sunday, and they include an attempt to explain the resentment in small-town Pennsylvania that won't be appreciated by some of the people whose votes Obama's seeking:

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations. That's a pretty broad list of things to explain with job loss.

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#161. To: Sam Houston (#141)

China didn't need our technology.

Unbelieveable comment.

angle  posted on  2008-04-12   17:31:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#162. To: robin (#148)

You refuse to see the reality.

angle  posted on  2008-04-12   17:33:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#163. To: angle (#161)

Asians have an IQ on average at least 10 points higher than that of Americans.

You have an unwarranted superiority complex, it seems to me.

George Herbert Walker Bush and his family have done far more to improve trade links, national security-related or not, with what used to be called "Red" China.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-04-12   17:34:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#164. To: Sam Houston (#163)

Asians have an IQ on average at least 10 points higher than that of Americans.

Sam...

In the fine print there is this admonition...

Americans are made up of "MANY" races therefore there is no such thing as an American when testing IQ.

China on the other hand is near 90 per cent Chinese, ONE race.

Thus the IQ rating is actually misleading.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-12   17:41:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#165. To: angle (#162)

During the Clinton years, I screamed good and loud. I have no illusions, again, I am contrasting and comparing them with the last 7 years.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-12   17:53:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#166. To: Cynicom (#164)

Okay, I'll put it this way. East Asians have been shown to have a 6-point higher IQ on average than Whites.

1. The Worldwide Pattern of IQ Scores. East Asians average higher on IQ tests than Whites, both in the U. S. and in Asia, even though IQ tests were developed for use in the Euro-American culture. Around the world, the average IQ for East Asians centers around 106; for Whites, about 100; and for Blacks about 85 in the U.S. and 70 in sub-Saharan Africa.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-04-12   17:58:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#167. To: Sam Houston (#166)

I'll buy that.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-12   17:59:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#168. To: Sam Houston (#166)

Okay, I'll put it this way. East Asians have been shown to have a 6-point higher IQ on average than Whites.

Interestingly, there is still widespread illiteracy in Asia. It's my opinion, based on this (as well as that govt's tendency to make stuff up), that they do not test everyone. Just as only the brightest Asians are sent here to study and work.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-12   18:01:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#169. To: DeaconBenjamin (#149)

Matthias Mueller, spokesman for the party, says the campaign has attracted huge support.

"We've had an unbelievably positive response," he said. "It shows just how necessary our campaign is."

People can't be trusted to decide for themselves. That's what the government is for, to decide what's best for them. They aren't intelligent enough to make the right decision.

angle  posted on  2008-04-12   18:04:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#170. To: robin (#165)

I am contrasting and comparing them with the last 7 years.

I see no comparision. What do you say about Clinton and Bosnia, Bush and Iraq?

angle  posted on  2008-04-12   18:05:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#171. To: angle (#170)

Iraq is much worse.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-12   18:06:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#172. To: robin (#148)

He was in a series that allowed this, but the Clinton years

Well then, why aren't you voting for Rodham? They proved they aren't "half as bad as the Bush years."

angle  posted on  2008-04-12   18:09:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#173. To: robin (#171)

Nevermind. There's no rational discussion with cultists.

angle  posted on  2008-04-12   18:10:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#174. To: angle (#172)

I have no intention of ever voting for a Clinton. I used the Clinton years as an example that there is a difference between administrations. Not that I like them.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-12   18:10:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#175. To: angle (#173)

Did Bosnia cost $3 trillion?

Did Bosnia cost us our liberties?

How many people died in Bosnia? How many troops?

Did our economy suffer because of Bosnia?

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-12   18:11:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#176. To: Peppa (#28)

"... making an assertion that guns and religion are false posessions of security. The right leader will help relieve you to cast away such antiquated thinking and fetishes. We will give you a new religion and security state..."

I agree with this analysis.

angle  posted on  2008-04-12   18:13:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#177. To: Sam Houston (#163)

You have an unwarranted superiority complex, it seems to me.

How so? If China had the missile technology, they wouldn't have needed Clinton to steal it for them.

angle  posted on  2008-04-12   18:17:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#178. To: Sam Houston (#166)

6-point higher IQ on average than Whites.

Swedish Whites or Southern American Whites?

angle  posted on  2008-04-12   18:18:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#179. To: robin (#175)

How much did the Clinton years cost in terms of setting it up to have Bush get enough votes to steal the election in the first place? How much executive privilege, how many executive orders, how much governing with impunity, how much so that the Pentagon reported a missing $ 2.3 trillion 9 months after Clinton left office?

You think Obama is going to make everything better. By his comments he indicates that people who want their constitutional rights to have guns, worship freely and put America first in trade and immigration are bitter, threatened people. What then can he do for us who support upholding our constitution not becasue we're bitter and threatened, but because it is the law of our country and our right?

angle  posted on  2008-04-12   18:29:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#180. To: angle (#177)

Once again, I ask you to research how much trade in all kinds of products the Chinese did with the Bush Crime Family. The Clintons are junior members of that Crime Family, so anything done in the Clinton administration was just a continuation of deals begun by Bush 41. This is certainly true of NAFTA as well.

Unless you actually invented the ICBM guidance system designed by Hughes-Loral yourself and are upset about being cut out of the project, I fail to see what sort of grievance you would have against Clinton in particular. The overall policy to let China have or trade for Western technology goes back to Old Man Bush's days and he was the first special envoy to "Red" China back in the early 1970s. He has often professed his love for the PRC.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-04-12   18:39:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#181. To: angle (#179)

What then can he do for us who support upholding our constitution not becasue we're bitter and threatened, but because it is the law of our country and our right?

The irony here is that the real bitter people in this saga are the Rev. Wright and his flock of perpetual victims.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-12   19:19:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#182. To: angle (#179)

No, I do not think Obama is going to make everything better. I have made it clear that I think he will do less damage than McCain.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-12   19:20:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#183. To: angle (#160)

Therefore, those who support the constitution are bitter about the constitution being violated? One does not necessarily follow from the other.

People go to church to worship God.

People who want weapons on hand are realists.

People who want the laws follwed in the country regarding immigration and are alarmed at how illegal immigrants destroy the economies through their stealing of the tax benefits intended for citizens are educated.

These, of course, are your theories.

However, it is known that people are more likely to go to church during hard times. Hard times also makes people more likely to volunteer for a revolution or some armed rebellion. This is also known. If you have a steady, well-paying job and live in a safe neighborhood you may not notice the presence of illegals or, if you do, you might appreciate their willingness to provide you services for less that the natives would charge. You may also support your government 'open trade' initiatives because they bring in cheap goods.

As for the constitution, it's always open for interpretation and the worse off you are the less happy you are likely to be with the current constitutional views.

Think about it. It kind of makes sense.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-04-12   19:36:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#184. To: robin, Jethro Tull, angle (#182)

this just in, now Obama is "apologizing" for his arrogance.

Odd so many here found nothing wrong with his words.

""If I worded things in a way that made people offended, I deeply regret that," Obama said in an interview with the Winston-Salem (N.C.) Journal."

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-12   19:37:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#185. To: Cynicom (#184)

George W. Bush is the only true Christian President in many a moon, according to my former pastor down at the First Baptist Church, and Dubya has a policy of NEVER apologizing and NEVER admitting error.

So I guess this means Obama is not a Christian for sure. Christians never apologize or admit error. They just issue ultimatums and bomb.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-04-12   19:42:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#186. To: Cynicom (#184)

this just in, now Obama is "apologizing" for his arrogance.

Why would he do that?

By all we researched those are his heartfelt positions.

Besides, the political damage is done. He just became Willie Horton.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-12   19:48:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#187. To: Jethro Tull (#186)

Besides, the political damage is done. He just became Willie Horton.

Obama suffers from self aggrandized elitism of the worst kind.

I wonder if it is not his white half that is looking down his nose at we white trash hill billies????

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-12   20:03:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#188. To: Jethro Tull, robin, angle, christine (#186)

The roof has fallen in on Obama, rightfully so.

This from Washington times...

"MUNCIE, Ind. (AP) – Democrat Barack Obama on Saturday conceded that comments he made about bitter working class voters who "cling to guns or religion" were ill chosen, as he tried to stem a burst of complaints that he is condescending.

"I didn't say it as well as I should have," he said."

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-12   20:12:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#189. To: Cynicom (#188)

condescending

That was the very word I chose last night when I first heard his statement. This tar baby stays with him, and just might give the nod to the Beast.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-12   20:25:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#190. To: Sam Houston (#180)

I fail to see what sort of grievance you would have against Clinton in particular.

It's not Clinton in particular. It's the crime family in general, Clinton included. The reason I'm even mentioning Clinton is in response to Robin who is indicating that Clinton, and by extension Obama, reside somewhere outside the crime family and are therefore less culpable.

angle  posted on  2008-04-12   22:08:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#191. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#183)

As for the constitution, it's always open for interpretation and the worse off you are the less happy you are likely to be with the current constitutional views.

You may call them constitutional views, but calling a load of shit a chocolate pie doesn't make it so. Same with trying to whitewash Obama's views.

angle  posted on  2008-04-12   22:13:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#192. To: Jethro Tull (#186)

the political damage is done.

He outted himself to the wrong crowd.

angle  posted on  2008-04-12   22:14:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#193. To: angle (#192)

This from AP....

"Clinton hit all those themes in lengthy comments to manufacturing workers in Indianapolis.

"The people of faith I know don't 'cling' to religion because they're bitter. People embrace faith not because they are materially poor, but because they are spiritually rich," she said.

"I also disagree with Senator Obama's assertion that people in this country 'cling to guns' and have certain attitudes about immigration or trade simply out of frustration," Clinton added."

"People don't need a president who looks down on them," she said. "They need a president who stands up for them."

McCain's campaign piled on Obama, releasing a statement that also accused him of elitism.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-12   22:17:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#194. To: angle (#191)

You may call them constitutional views, but calling a load of shit a chocolate pie doesn't make it so. Same with trying to whitewash Obama's views.

Why would I want to whitewash Obama's views? I am pleased that there is a politician who, sometimes, expresses his thoughts for others to hear.

Compare Obama's relatively unrehearsed words with Clinton's claiming that all those victims of outsourcing, free trade, and competition from legal guest worers and illegal immigrants are all enthusiastic and energized to roll their sleeves and then do... what? Other than voting for Hillary, of course.

It seems to me that the expectation for politicians talking is that it is always done at the 'total moron' level and, every time someone dares elevate the discussion to, let's say, 'idiot' level, the total morons feel it's their duty to scream 'APOLOLGIZE!!!'

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-04-13   8:45:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#195. To: angle (#176)

"... making an assertion that guns and religion are false posessions of security. The right leader will help relieve you to cast away such antiquated thinking and fetishes. We will give you a new religion and security state..."

I agree with this analysis.

Thanks angle.

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-13   8:55:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#196. To: a vast rightwing conspirator, Peppa, Jethro Tull, robin (#194)

Why would I want to whitewash Obama's views? I am pleased that there is a politician who, sometimes, expresses his thoughts for others to hear.

I happen to be one of the "small town" people that Obama was referring to.

I and all my friends took offense to his words, now mind you we are the subject of his remarks.

Does that mean that you not being one of us are telling thousands of us "small towners" that we do not understand?

Does that not make you a tad "elitist", a tad "condescending"? Granted we may not be as educated and intelligent as you, but we do seem to be of one mind on this.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-13   9:05:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#197. To: Cynicom (#196)

happen to be one of the "small town" people that Obama was referring to.

I and all my friends took offense to his words, now mind you we are the subject of his remarks.

Does that mean that you not being one of us are telling thousands of us "small towners" that we do not understand?

Does that not make you a tad "elitist", a tad "condescending"? Granted we may not be as educated and intelligent as you, but we do seem to be of one mind on this.

Funny thing. Obama won't renounce his racist church, and he calls them clingy? We know how he feels about guns... and we know what 'else' was going on when he made that speech.

Yes, don't cling to those things that make you INdependent and straight with the Lord. Why that's old-time foolery and see where it's got you.. You need BIG GOVERNMENT to help you shed that bitterness. Now we aren't going to make things better, but we are going to help you think things are better. You can perceive food in your bowl, and a penny in your hand and feel rich! Yessah!

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-13   9:14:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#198. To: Cynicom (#196)

His words weren't moronic, they were clear and straight forward. Unfortunately his elitist put down of small towners was offered to the San Francisco white wine and brae cheese crowd, thereby reinforcing nasty stereotypes. His comment damaged his Teflon coating and the Os aren't handling his gun grabbing honesty very well.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-13   9:18:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#199. To: Peppa (#197)

Yes, don't cling to those things that make you INdependent and straight with the Lord. Why that's old-time foolery and see where it's got you.. You need BIG GOVERNMENT to help you shed that bitterness. Now we aren't going to make things better, but we are going to help you think things are better. You can perceive food in your bowl, and a penny in your hand and feel rich! Yessah!

Classic.

That just about nails it - thanks.

Lod  posted on  2008-04-13   9:19:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#200. To: lodwick (#199)

Classic.

That just about nails it - thanks.

Thanks Lod.

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-13   9:22:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#201. To: Cynicom (#196) (Edited)

Okay, so Obama dared talked about people other than Niggers (which are 'his' people') in ways that some of them don't appreciate, especially after the media and Hillary told them that they should not appreciate it.

Like I said, if you appreciate Hillary's Potemkinistic talk about all these unemployed and beat up people and their readiness to roll up sleeves and vote for her, then you should vote for Hillary.

I live in PA myself, by the way and, you and I surely know that most PA's little towns look like shit. On my commute to work (in New Jersey) I pass by the ruins of the USX giant buildings - once the largest corporation in the world, now the maker of lighter flints and souvenirs. Oh... one of the ruins is to be used as the backdrop for some casino in Bethlehem - we're making progress. You want to buy a townhouse in Easton? Not a problem, you can have one for $30,000, maybe less if you shop around. You walk trough Allentown and you always feel like you need to watch your back and think about body armor as a wise investment. As for 'happy faces' and people eager to roll up their sleeves when prompted to do so by Hillary... I wish she did a TV spot on that with the MTV dancers in the background while Hillary's face does the happy talking. Remember, Obama claimed that these problems have been around for 20-30 years already and no politician did anything about it. Check Billy Joel's 'Allentown' - great video. Meanwhile, Hillary, when running for senator in New York, she asked the people in upstate NY to roll up their sleeves because, once elected, she would bring 300,000 jobs back. What happened, I heard, was that 90,000 more jobs left upstate New York since her election and all those sleeveless arms, got bitten by mosquitoes in the summer and froze in the winter, while waiting for Hillary's promised jobs.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-04-13   9:23:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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