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Title: Obama on small-town PA: Clinging to religion, guns, xenophobia
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhi ... -surprise-that-ha_b_96188.html
Published: Apr 11, 2008
Author: Ben Smith
Post Date: 2008-04-11 19:39:50 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 5576
Comments: 263

Obama on small-town PA: Clinging to religion, guns, xenophobia

Huffpo's Mayhill Fowler has more from Obama's remarks at a San Francisco fundraiser Sunday, and they include an attempt to explain the resentment in small-town Pennsylvania that won't be appreciated by some of the people whose votes Obama's seeking:

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations. That's a pretty broad list of things to explain with job loss.

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#181. To: angle (#179)

What then can he do for us who support upholding our constitution not becasue we're bitter and threatened, but because it is the law of our country and our right?

The irony here is that the real bitter people in this saga are the Rev. Wright and his flock of perpetual victims.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-12   19:19:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#182. To: angle (#179)

No, I do not think Obama is going to make everything better. I have made it clear that I think he will do less damage than McCain.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-12   19:20:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#183. To: angle (#160)

Therefore, those who support the constitution are bitter about the constitution being violated? One does not necessarily follow from the other.

People go to church to worship God.

People who want weapons on hand are realists.

People who want the laws follwed in the country regarding immigration and are alarmed at how illegal immigrants destroy the economies through their stealing of the tax benefits intended for citizens are educated.

These, of course, are your theories.

However, it is known that people are more likely to go to church during hard times. Hard times also makes people more likely to volunteer for a revolution or some armed rebellion. This is also known. If you have a steady, well-paying job and live in a safe neighborhood you may not notice the presence of illegals or, if you do, you might appreciate their willingness to provide you services for less that the natives would charge. You may also support your government 'open trade' initiatives because they bring in cheap goods.

As for the constitution, it's always open for interpretation and the worse off you are the less happy you are likely to be with the current constitutional views.

Think about it. It kind of makes sense.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-04-12   19:36:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#184. To: robin, Jethro Tull, angle (#182)

this just in, now Obama is "apologizing" for his arrogance.

Odd so many here found nothing wrong with his words.

""If I worded things in a way that made people offended, I deeply regret that," Obama said in an interview with the Winston-Salem (N.C.) Journal."

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-12   19:37:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#185. To: Cynicom (#184)

George W. Bush is the only true Christian President in many a moon, according to my former pastor down at the First Baptist Church, and Dubya has a policy of NEVER apologizing and NEVER admitting error.

So I guess this means Obama is not a Christian for sure. Christians never apologize or admit error. They just issue ultimatums and bomb.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-04-12   19:42:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#186. To: Cynicom (#184)

this just in, now Obama is "apologizing" for his arrogance.

Why would he do that?

By all we researched those are his heartfelt positions.

Besides, the political damage is done. He just became Willie Horton.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-12   19:48:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#187. To: Jethro Tull (#186)

Besides, the political damage is done. He just became Willie Horton.

Obama suffers from self aggrandized elitism of the worst kind.

I wonder if it is not his white half that is looking down his nose at we white trash hill billies????

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-12   20:03:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#188. To: Jethro Tull, robin, angle, christine (#186)

The roof has fallen in on Obama, rightfully so.

This from Washington times...

"MUNCIE, Ind. (AP) – Democrat Barack Obama on Saturday conceded that comments he made about bitter working class voters who "cling to guns or religion" were ill chosen, as he tried to stem a burst of complaints that he is condescending.

"I didn't say it as well as I should have," he said."

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-12   20:12:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#189. To: Cynicom (#188)

condescending

That was the very word I chose last night when I first heard his statement. This tar baby stays with him, and just might give the nod to the Beast.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-12   20:25:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#190. To: Sam Houston (#180)

I fail to see what sort of grievance you would have against Clinton in particular.

It's not Clinton in particular. It's the crime family in general, Clinton included. The reason I'm even mentioning Clinton is in response to Robin who is indicating that Clinton, and by extension Obama, reside somewhere outside the crime family and are therefore less culpable.

angle  posted on  2008-04-12   22:08:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#191. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#183)

As for the constitution, it's always open for interpretation and the worse off you are the less happy you are likely to be with the current constitutional views.

You may call them constitutional views, but calling a load of shit a chocolate pie doesn't make it so. Same with trying to whitewash Obama's views.

angle  posted on  2008-04-12   22:13:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#192. To: Jethro Tull (#186)

the political damage is done.

He outted himself to the wrong crowd.

angle  posted on  2008-04-12   22:14:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#193. To: angle (#192)

This from AP....

"Clinton hit all those themes in lengthy comments to manufacturing workers in Indianapolis.

"The people of faith I know don't 'cling' to religion because they're bitter. People embrace faith not because they are materially poor, but because they are spiritually rich," she said.

"I also disagree with Senator Obama's assertion that people in this country 'cling to guns' and have certain attitudes about immigration or trade simply out of frustration," Clinton added."

"People don't need a president who looks down on them," she said. "They need a president who stands up for them."

McCain's campaign piled on Obama, releasing a statement that also accused him of elitism.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-12   22:17:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#194. To: angle (#191)

You may call them constitutional views, but calling a load of shit a chocolate pie doesn't make it so. Same with trying to whitewash Obama's views.

Why would I want to whitewash Obama's views? I am pleased that there is a politician who, sometimes, expresses his thoughts for others to hear.

Compare Obama's relatively unrehearsed words with Clinton's claiming that all those victims of outsourcing, free trade, and competition from legal guest worers and illegal immigrants are all enthusiastic and energized to roll their sleeves and then do... what? Other than voting for Hillary, of course.

It seems to me that the expectation for politicians talking is that it is always done at the 'total moron' level and, every time someone dares elevate the discussion to, let's say, 'idiot' level, the total morons feel it's their duty to scream 'APOLOLGIZE!!!'

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-04-13   8:45:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#195. To: angle (#176)

"... making an assertion that guns and religion are false posessions of security. The right leader will help relieve you to cast away such antiquated thinking and fetishes. We will give you a new religion and security state..."

I agree with this analysis.

Thanks angle.

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-13   8:55:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#196. To: a vast rightwing conspirator, Peppa, Jethro Tull, robin (#194)

Why would I want to whitewash Obama's views? I am pleased that there is a politician who, sometimes, expresses his thoughts for others to hear.

I happen to be one of the "small town" people that Obama was referring to.

I and all my friends took offense to his words, now mind you we are the subject of his remarks.

Does that mean that you not being one of us are telling thousands of us "small towners" that we do not understand?

Does that not make you a tad "elitist", a tad "condescending"? Granted we may not be as educated and intelligent as you, but we do seem to be of one mind on this.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-13   9:05:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#197. To: Cynicom (#196)

happen to be one of the "small town" people that Obama was referring to.

I and all my friends took offense to his words, now mind you we are the subject of his remarks.

Does that mean that you not being one of us are telling thousands of us "small towners" that we do not understand?

Does that not make you a tad "elitist", a tad "condescending"? Granted we may not be as educated and intelligent as you, but we do seem to be of one mind on this.

Funny thing. Obama won't renounce his racist church, and he calls them clingy? We know how he feels about guns... and we know what 'else' was going on when he made that speech.

Yes, don't cling to those things that make you INdependent and straight with the Lord. Why that's old-time foolery and see where it's got you.. You need BIG GOVERNMENT to help you shed that bitterness. Now we aren't going to make things better, but we are going to help you think things are better. You can perceive food in your bowl, and a penny in your hand and feel rich! Yessah!

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-13   9:14:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#198. To: Cynicom (#196)

His words weren't moronic, they were clear and straight forward. Unfortunately his elitist put down of small towners was offered to the San Francisco white wine and brae cheese crowd, thereby reinforcing nasty stereotypes. His comment damaged his Teflon coating and the Os aren't handling his gun grabbing honesty very well.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-13   9:18:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#199. To: Peppa (#197)

Yes, don't cling to those things that make you INdependent and straight with the Lord. Why that's old-time foolery and see where it's got you.. You need BIG GOVERNMENT to help you shed that bitterness. Now we aren't going to make things better, but we are going to help you think things are better. You can perceive food in your bowl, and a penny in your hand and feel rich! Yessah!

Classic.

That just about nails it - thanks.

Lod  posted on  2008-04-13   9:19:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#200. To: lodwick (#199)

Classic.

That just about nails it - thanks.

Thanks Lod.

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-13   9:22:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#201. To: Cynicom (#196) (Edited)

Okay, so Obama dared talked about people other than Niggers (which are 'his' people') in ways that some of them don't appreciate, especially after the media and Hillary told them that they should not appreciate it.

Like I said, if you appreciate Hillary's Potemkinistic talk about all these unemployed and beat up people and their readiness to roll up sleeves and vote for her, then you should vote for Hillary.

I live in PA myself, by the way and, you and I surely know that most PA's little towns look like shit. On my commute to work (in New Jersey) I pass by the ruins of the USX giant buildings - once the largest corporation in the world, now the maker of lighter flints and souvenirs. Oh... one of the ruins is to be used as the backdrop for some casino in Bethlehem - we're making progress. You want to buy a townhouse in Easton? Not a problem, you can have one for $30,000, maybe less if you shop around. You walk trough Allentown and you always feel like you need to watch your back and think about body armor as a wise investment. As for 'happy faces' and people eager to roll up their sleeves when prompted to do so by Hillary... I wish she did a TV spot on that with the MTV dancers in the background while Hillary's face does the happy talking. Remember, Obama claimed that these problems have been around for 20-30 years already and no politician did anything about it. Check Billy Joel's 'Allentown' - great video. Meanwhile, Hillary, when running for senator in New York, she asked the people in upstate NY to roll up their sleeves because, once elected, she would bring 300,000 jobs back. What happened, I heard, was that 90,000 more jobs left upstate New York since her election and all those sleeveless arms, got bitten by mosquitoes in the summer and froze in the winter, while waiting for Hillary's promised jobs.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-04-13   9:23:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#202. To: Peppa (#197)

but we are going to help you think things are better.

I have to keep saying this....It is odd that there is NO ONE here supporting McKooK or any other BS artist on the republican side. Is there a reason?? Yes there is, namely, we are Americans, not camp following partisan whores that have been in hiding here on the 4um.

"These same people are going to be orgasmic when Obama decides to ride in the back of the bus as VP and Queen Hillary is the driver." It will be a two for one deal that will send them into ecstasy.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-13   9:23:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#203. To: Cynicom (#202)

camp following partisan whores

I tried to make a living as a gigolo once, but the women just laughed at me. I didn't make one cent.

"The evil man is the child grown strong" - Thomas Hobbes

YertleTurtle  posted on  2008-04-13   9:25:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#204. To: Jethro Tull (#198)

He is unelectable for a number of reasons. (This doesn't mean his distaff opponent is. She is even more unelectable.)

But he speaks as if he were a political scientist analyzing the various strains of the ethos and electorate.

Once you begin to campaign for President in this country, you have to weigh ever utterance BEFORE it comes out of your mouth for how it will play in Peoria.

Ironically, even though conservatives decry "political correctness," in recent years, it is often they who jump on any faux pas, real or perceived.

Usually, as they are now so firmly allied with and beholden to Israel, it is to declare the speaker "anti-Semitic."

My former preachers down at the Baptist church like to see God directing and micromanaging everything.

Using their method of interpreting events, I would say God has decided to finish us off posthaste by placing Insane McPain in the White House.

Nuclear war, along with the total breakdown of civilization, at least in this country, will follow soon afterwards.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-04-13   9:29:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#205. To: a vast rightwing conspirator, Peppa (#201)

I live in PA myself,

OK...

And your problems on buying cheap houses is going to rectified by Obama how??????

Now I can understand your dislike of Paul. You want a gravy train and someone took took away your all day sucker, what a shame. Paul said openly YOU WOULD HAVE TO WORK, NO MORE GRAVY FROM WASHINGTON AND THAT SCARED THE HELL OUT OF YOU.

Now your fear of Paul is understandable, just another free loader looking for a check from Washington to take care of you.

With that in mind then we do understand your need to elect Obama and Clinton. Now your gimme hands are apparent.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-13   9:30:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#206. To: Cynicom (#205)

So you have stopped accepting your Social Security checks?

Depending on your age, you may have long since gotten back everything you paid in.

In which case, you would be "just another free loader looking for a check from Washington to take care of you."

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-04-13   9:33:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#207. To: YertleTurtle (#203)

That means you need to try another line of "work".

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-13   9:33:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#208. To: Cynicom (#205) (Edited)

I don't want anything, my friend. I live well and I need nothing from Obama or Hillary. I never asked any politician for anything other than to leave me alone.

But that doesn't change the fact that PA's small towns look like shit and they are full of unhappy people. I suppose it hurts that Obama noticed that and he dared talk about it because sometimes reality hurts.

And, of course, I have no intention of buying a house in any town or city. I like acreage because I can shoot my little guns, swim in my (inground :))) ) pool without 5 neighbors staring and barbecue without them being able to smell it.

My 'dislike of Ron Paul'? Where is that coming from. I always stated that his running as a GOP was a bad thing but I also stated that I wished he ran as an independent - as everyone seeking votes should. It seems that my advice was good advice. Too bad it wasn't followed.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-04-13   9:35:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#209. To: Sam Houston (#206)

So you have stopped accepting your Social Security checks?

Sam..

If you take a close look, SS is self funded. Or has that escaped you. If you honestly take a look you will find that the government "OWES" the SS fund billions of dollars. I am surprised at you for that comment.

That is money that was "forcibly" withheld from YOU and your employer by law. Please dont tell me you are going to forgo money that was taken from you???

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-13   9:38:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#210. To: Cynicom (#202)

I have to keep saying this....It is odd that there is NO ONE here supporting McKooK or any other BS artist on the republican side. Is there a reason?? Yes there is, namely, we are Americans, not camp following partisan whores that have been in hiding here on the 4um.

"These same people are going to be orgasmic when Obama decides to ride in the back of the bus as VP and Queen Hillary is the driver." It will be a two for one deal that will send them into ecstasy.

The oddest syndrome by far is the emergence of the BushBot gene. You either vote Obama or you are a zionazi, torture loving warmongerer. All of a sudden the incremental steps taken by previous administrations that brought us to this point are erased from memory. There are two ways of looking at things, and it's either their way or you will be attacked and called a McCain Supporter. There is no argument brought forward to vote FOR Obama. Their whole argument is to vote against McCain.

You are absolutely correct that what has been unmasked, are partisan whores. And yes they will vote Clinton to get Obama. And when the hammer falls on them all, they will blame the Bush regime for all of it...rather than admit, both 'parties' have orchestrated this takedown of America.

Now, they can let that sit on their heart as they lie to their kids and grandkids about how we got here, and pretend they weren't the cowards that helped.

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-13   9:38:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#211. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#208)

Why on earth were you so afraid of Paul????

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-13   9:38:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#212. To: Cynicom (#103)

First lets see who does NOT agree with you.

Obama himself.

It's untrue that Obama himself says that his comments were untrue, he is just saying he could have expressed himself better:

"I didn't say it as well as I could have," Obama (D-Ill.) told a crowd in Muncie. Later, in an interview with a North Carolina newspaper, he said, "Obviously, if I worded things in a way that made people offended, I deeply regret that."

...

After the remarks were reported by the liberal blog Huffington Post on Friday, Obama initially defended them, and on Saturday he continued to say the tenor of them was correct, even if the phrasing was off. He argued that Clinton and Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), whose campaign also criticized the remarks, were turning something "everybody knows is true" into political fodder.

"Lately, there has been a little, typical sort of political flare-up because I said something that everybody knows is true, which is that there are a whole bunch of folks in small towns in Pennsylvania, in towns right here in Indiana, in my home town in Illinois who are bitter," Obama said in Muncie. "They are angry. They feel like they have been left behind. They feel like nobody is paying attention to what they're going through."

"So I said, 'Well, you know, when you're bitter you turn to what you can count on,' " he continued. "So people they vote about guns, or they take comfort from their faith and their family and their community. And they get mad about illegal immigrants who are coming over to this country or they get frustrated about, you know, how things are changing. That's a natural response."

'Bitter' Is a Hard Pill For Obama to Swallow: He Stands by Sentiment as Clinton Pounces.

And I notice you didn't answer my question: what, in what Obama said, is untrue?

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-13   9:39:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#213. To: Cynicom (#207)

That means you need to try another line of "work".

Sometimes they wouldn't take me up on it if I offered it for free. It was awful.

You can spot the moralist by his exaggerations - Unknown

YertleTurtle  posted on  2008-04-13   9:40:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#214. To: Peppa (#210)

And when the hammer falls on them all, they will blame the Bush regime for all of it...rather than admit, both 'parties' have orchestrated this takedown of America.

Many months ago, I told some people here on 4um that there was a small group of 4um members that were not Americans, but rather just partisan democrats that shared our hatred for Bush and friends, and when the election progressed they would come out of hiding.

They have crawled out of their hidey holes and the list I made was correct except I missed one in deep cover.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-13   9:44:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#215. To: YertleTurtle (#213)

Turtle...

Thank God you are here.

Too many of these people take themselves too seriously, they really believe what they say and that is scary. They are totally humorless and I look askance at such people.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-13   9:47:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#216. To: Cynicom (#214)

Many months ago, I told some people here on 4um that there was a small group of 4um members that were not Americans, but rather just partisan democrats that shared our hatred for Bush and friends, and when the election progressed they would come out of hiding.

They have crawled out of their hidey holes and the list I made was correct except I missed one in deep cover.

I spotted the busy bees through the months, but one was queen for sure. Cult programming.

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-13   9:48:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#217. To: Jethro Tull (#181)

The irony here is that the real bitter people in this saga are the Rev. Wright and his flock of perpetual victims.

There are plenty of bitter people posting here who keep telling us that nothing can be expected from politics, that government can do nothing for them.

Just what Obama was talking about.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-13   9:50:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#218. To: Cynicom (#211)

Why on earth were you so afraid of Paul????

You know, I just figured it out.

All that stupid happy talk about Ron Paul hijacking the GOP nomination was not unlike Hillary's happy talk about all these unhappy people in PA rolling up their sleeves and getting energized, just waiting for a word from Hillary to spring into action.

If there is one political organization more evil and more anti-American than the Demo party, it's today's GOP party. And Ron Paul was running for THAT party's nomination.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-04-13   9:50:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#219. To: aristeides (#212)

It's untrue that Obama himself says that his comments were untrue, he is just saying he could have expressed himself better:

Ari...

If you look here you will find an Obama quote wherein he uses the term..."I regret"...I would hate to think he is now lying, that he does not regret it at all.

You may indicate he is lying, but I doubt it.

I suspect he really regrets that he got caught with hoof in mouth disease which can be fatal.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-13   9:51:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#220. To: Cynicom (#219) (Edited)

I suspect he really regrets that he got caught with hoof in mouth disease which can be fatal.

He regrets his choice of words.

Translation: he mistakenly spoke at 'idiot' level instead of speaking at 'total moron' level.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-04-13   9:52:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#221. To: Peppa (#210)

And when the hammer falls on them all, they will blame the Bush regime for all of it...rather than admit, both 'parties' have orchestrated this takedown of America.

There are even more on the other side who are still blaming the Clinton regime for everything bad that has happened under Bush.

ClintonBush should always be written as one word. The two families are joined at the hip. To think there is any distance between them is akin to believing professional wrestling is legit.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-04-13   9:52:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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