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Title: Obama on small-town PA: Clinging to religion, guns, xenophobia
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhi ... -surprise-that-ha_b_96188.html
Published: Apr 11, 2008
Author: Ben Smith
Post Date: 2008-04-11 19:39:50 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 6019
Comments: 263

Obama on small-town PA: Clinging to religion, guns, xenophobia

Huffpo's Mayhill Fowler has more from Obama's remarks at a San Francisco fundraiser Sunday, and they include an attempt to explain the resentment in small-town Pennsylvania that won't be appreciated by some of the people whose votes Obama's seeking:

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations. That's a pretty broad list of things to explain with job loss.

Click for Full Text!

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First lets see who does NOT agree with you.

Obama himself.

It's untrue that Obama himself says that his comments were untrue, he is just saying he could have expressed himself better:

"I didn't say it as well as I could have," Obama (D-Ill.) told a crowd in Muncie. Later, in an interview with a North Carolina newspaper, he said, "Obviously, if I worded things in a way that made people offended, I deeply regret that."

...

After the remarks were reported by the liberal blog Huffington Post on Friday, Obama initially defended them, and on Saturday he continued to say the tenor of them was correct, even if the phrasing was off. He argued that Clinton and Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), whose campaign also criticized the remarks, were turning something "everybody knows is true" into political fodder.

"Lately, there has been a little, typical sort of political flare-up because I said something that everybody knows is true, which is that there are a whole bunch of folks in small towns in Pennsylvania, in towns right here in Indiana, in my home town in Illinois who are bitter," Obama said in Muncie. "They are angry. They feel like they have been left behind. They feel like nobody is paying attention to what they're going through."

"So I said, 'Well, you know, when you're bitter you turn to what you can count on,' " he continued. "So people they vote about guns, or they take comfort from their faith and their family and their community. And they get mad about illegal immigrants who are coming over to this country or they get frustrated about, you know, how things are changing. That's a natural response."

'Bitter' Is a Hard Pill For Obama to Swallow: He Stands by Sentiment as Clinton Pounces.

And I notice you didn't answer my question: what, in what Obama said, is untrue?

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-13   9:39:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

That means you need to try another line of "work".

Sometimes they wouldn't take me up on it if I offered it for free. It was awful.

You can spot the moralist by his exaggerations - Unknown

YertleTurtle  posted on  2008-04-13   9:40:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

And when the hammer falls on them all, they will blame the Bush regime for all of it...rather than admit, both 'parties' have orchestrated this takedown of America.

Many months ago, I told some people here on 4um that there was a small group of 4um members that were not Americans, but rather just partisan democrats that shared our hatred for Bush and friends, and when the election progressed they would come out of hiding.

They have crawled out of their hidey holes and the list I made was correct except I missed one in deep cover.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-13   9:44:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Turtle...

Thank God you are here.

Too many of these people take themselves too seriously, they really believe what they say and that is scary. They are totally humorless and I look askance at such people.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-13   9:47:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Many months ago, I told some people here on 4um that there was a small group of 4um members that were not Americans, but rather just partisan democrats that shared our hatred for Bush and friends, and when the election progressed they would come out of hiding.

They have crawled out of their hidey holes and the list I made was correct except I missed one in deep cover.

I spotted the busy bees through the months, but one was queen for sure. Cult programming.

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-13   9:48:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The irony here is that the real bitter people in this saga are the Rev. Wright and his flock of perpetual victims.

There are plenty of bitter people posting here who keep telling us that nothing can be expected from politics, that government can do nothing for them.

Just what Obama was talking about.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-13   9:50:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Why on earth were you so afraid of Paul????

You know, I just figured it out.

All that stupid happy talk about Ron Paul hijacking the GOP nomination was not unlike Hillary's happy talk about all these unhappy people in PA rolling up their sleeves and getting energized, just waiting for a word from Hillary to spring into action.

If there is one political organization more evil and more anti-American than the Demo party, it's today's GOP party. And Ron Paul was running for THAT party's nomination.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-04-13   9:50:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

It's untrue that Obama himself says that his comments were untrue, he is just saying he could have expressed himself better:

Ari...

If you look here you will find an Obama quote wherein he uses the term..."I regret"...I would hate to think he is now lying, that he does not regret it at all.

You may indicate he is lying, but I doubt it.

I suspect he really regrets that he got caught with hoof in mouth disease which can be fatal.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-13   9:51:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I suspect he really regrets that he got caught with hoof in mouth disease which can be fatal.

He regrets his choice of words.

Translation: he mistakenly spoke at 'idiot' level instead of speaking at 'total moron' level.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-04-13   9:52:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

And when the hammer falls on them all, they will blame the Bush regime for all of it...rather than admit, both 'parties' have orchestrated this takedown of America.

There are even more on the other side who are still blaming the Clinton regime for everything bad that has happened under Bush.

ClintonBush should always be written as one word. The two families are joined at the hip. To think there is any distance between them is akin to believing professional wrestling is legit.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-04-13   9:52:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Why were you so vocal day after day concerning Paul???? Were you afraid he would end the war????

That must be it, you as camp follower must want more war as McKooK, Clinton and Obama are so willing to continue.

Obama even wants to send more troops into Afghanistan and maybe even Pakistan, now it is clear, you want more war and Paul was a threat to stop it. War mongering is ok as long as YOU dont have to go????? Now we understand.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-13   9:54:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Vast you need a bigger shovel.

I want to assure you, you will have the glorious opportunity to vote for Clinton/Obama in November.

Americans will have no choice, only die hard partisan dems and pubs will have a choice and the rest of us will get more war.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-13   9:57:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

There are even more on the other side who are still blaming the Clinton regime for everything bad that has happened under Bush.

ClintonBush should always be written as one word. The two families are joined at the hip. To think there is any distance between them is akin to believing professional wrestling is legit.

I disagree with your math there. If that were true, dems would not have taken congress to end the war. The donations to the RNC are far behind the D's. There was hope that the d's were better and were given a chance to lead, but joined with their other half to do us all in.

That you can not see there is one party, disguised as two, is more than too bad, it's a deadly delusion.

That you want to play the pub v dem game and think the people will win, then offer up something, ANYTHING that would show it.

The argument for dems is that they hate pubs, and it goes no deeper. Obama is as bought and paid for as the others. He is the status quo and worse, he ushers in a new extreme door for more like him. If you happen to be a commie, than perhaps he's your guy.

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-13   9:58:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Too many of these people take themselves too seriously, they really believe what they say and that is scary. They are totally humorless and I look askance at such people.

I can actually mock myself, and I don't mind it if someone gets the best of me, as long as they're funny.

You can spot the moralist by his exaggerations - Unknown

YertleTurtle  posted on  2008-04-13   10:00:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

My friend, you are turning completely irrational.

Try to remember, this thread is not about your fantasies concerning... poor me. Perhaps you should stay on the topic on this thread an start another one concerning me if you so wish. I do not mind and I might even contribute.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-04-13   10:02:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Intelligent people sometimes have a difficult time coming to the conclusion that there is only ONE party. Their lack of objectivity then becomes part of the problem, which is what the government wants.

Clinton was better than Reagan, Bush was worse than Clinton, on and on.

Sounds like third grade babble to me.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-13   10:02:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

There are plenty of bitter people posting here who keep telling us that nothing can be expected from politics, that government can do nothing for them.

Just what Obama was talking about.

Huh? Just about everyone I read expects to continue to be screwed by politics/government, save for the hopeful set who live in a delusionary state. Anyone who thinks one man can defund the MIC is about to experience big time bitter.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-13   10:07:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Try to remember, this thread is not about your fantasies concerning... poor me.

Vast...

Stop changing horses in midstream, either you supported Paul or you did not.

I do not recall one word of support let alone any money.

Any "American" would be open to Paul, all you could do was run up and down the sidelines chanting, "Paul cant win", as if you had the only word from God himself.

Now you are supporting someone of three that all want more war. Take up your cause by voting for any of the three and WE will have more war. Thanks a lot.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-13   10:07:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Huh? Just about everyone I read expects to continue to be screwed by politics/government, save for the hopeful set who live in a delusionary state.

Partisan politics is alive and well, just what the government wants, people unable to think for themselves.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-13   10:09:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Do the folks in Hazleton have a right to be bitter w/Obama suggested that illegals receive free health care and in state tuition?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-13   10:11:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Intelligent people sometimes have a difficult time coming to the conclusion that there is only ONE party. Their lack of objectivity then becomes part of the problem, which is what the government wants.

Clinton was better than Reagan, Bush was worse than Clinton, on and on.

Sounds like third grade babble to me.

I think some are indoctrinated from birth, and that programming can never be changed. Some get off on revenge voting. And no matter who wins, we all lose.

We are all in one fast sinking boat. One side is bailing the water out, the other side bailing the water in, and the Captain sits on shore laughing at the drowning dingbats.

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-13   10:13:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

There are plenty of bitter people posting here who keep telling us that nothing can be expected from politics, that government can do nothing for them.

i would characterize that as facing reality based on experience. i don't want politicians to do a damn thing for me. i simply want them to uphold and govern by the oath they took to the consititution.

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of __________, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

christine  posted on  2008-04-13   10:13:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Alright. Let me say it again. I very much agree with Ron Paul's views. I clearly found his run for the GOP ticket stupid, self-defeating and, in fact, damaging to the cause of freedom because his GUARANTEED crushing defeat was going to legitimize the GOP and the 2-party system.

I was right that he was going to lose big. And I was right that McCain, now that he defeated everyone else, including RP, is more legitimate that he would have been otherwise.

I always suggested that RP ran as an independent and that he NEVER participated in the GOP primaries. He didn't and he did and we are all worse off for it. Mr. Barr may now do a Libertarian run. I hope that he does and I wish he started it several months ago. If he is in the run, it's likely that I will support him. As for the current Demo primary, I will vote for Obama because that's why I registered Demo 3 weeks ago.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-04-13   10:15:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Partisan politics is alive and well

I see only Democratic partisans here. I have no idea what they see in that branch of the national party, but there is some wacky attraction.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-13   10:15:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

"These same people are going to be orgasmic when Obama decides to ride in the back of the bus as VP and Queen Hillary is the driver." It will be a two for one deal that will send them into ecstasy.

You keep saying that, even though not a single poster on this forum, as far as I know, has ever indicated a willingness to vote for Hillary.

I myself told you I would not vote for Hillary, when you directly asked me.

I also asked you if you would admit you were wrong when Hillary does not get the presidential nomination.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-13   10:16:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

That you can not see there is one party, disguised as two, is more than too bad, it's a deadly delusion.

I am saying there is ONE FAMILY disguised as two, the Bush Crime Family with the Clintons along for the ride ever since Poppy recruited Bubba into the CIA in the late Sixties, disguising him as a hippie war protester on the trip the Company sent him on to the Soviet Union.

I think you must have me confused with someone else.

I have NO HOPE in politics whatsoever, partisan or not.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-04-13   10:17:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

i would characterize that as facing reality based on experience

I won't dispute that. They may well be right, although I prefer to entertain some hopes.

But you are admitting that Obama was telling the truth about such people, aren't you?

Why are people getting so exercised over what he said?

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-13   10:18:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

i would characterize that as facing reality based on experience. i don't want politicians to do a damn thing for me. i simply want them to uphold and govern by the oath they took to the consititution.

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of __________, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Excellent statement. While they're busy protecting and defending the constitution, we may be able to live our lives. But Bush's campaign in 2004 promised that Bush was going to protect every single American, individually, against the Mooslums who were about to take over their homesteads. And Bush got elected. I know, 'barely' elected but a sizable number of Americans, allegedly a majority of those who actually voted, voted for Bush.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-04-13   10:19:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Well put and I'd actually have respect for the man's words if he'd defend them. This BS about misspeaking has become nauseating. I've seen the video of his comments and they were well thought through, IMO.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-13   10:22:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Huh? Just about everyone I read expects to continue to be screwed by politics/government, save for the hopeful set who live in a delusionary state. Anyone who thinks one man can defund the MIC is about to experience big time bitter.

That attitude is just what Obama was talking about.

You're saying that attitude is right. But you're also, in effect, admitting that Obama was telling the truth.

So why are people getting so upset about what he said?

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-13   10:23:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

So why are people getting so upset about what he said?

Gee, go ask the rest of political America. We aren't alone in detecting liberal condescension.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-13   10:25:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Well put and I'd actually have respect for the man's words if he'd defend them.

Did you read the article I linked to in #212? He does defend what he said. He says his words were a truth everybody knows. He just says he could have expressed himself better, and is sorry he offended some people.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-13   10:25:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Gee, go ask the rest of political America.

I just had Chris Matthews's show on on my TV. I had it playing in the background, and didn't listen to every word, so I may have missed something, but I didn't hear any discussion at all of Obama's remarks.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-13   10:27:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I just had Chris Matthews's show on on my TV. I had it playing in the background, and didn't listen to every word, so I may have missed something, but I didn't hear any discussion at all of Obama's remarks

Gee, I wonder why????

Maybe he thinks like Ari...LOL

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-13   10:29:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I think you must have me confused with someone else.

You're right, I did. Please accept my apology.

I am saying there is ONE FAMILY disguised as two, the Bush Crime Family with the Clintons along for the ride ever since Poppy recruited Bubba into the CIA in the late Sixties, disguising him as a hippie war protester on the trip the Company sent him on to the Soviet Union.

Yes, yet here we sit in a food fight about who is worse. I do not understand why perpetuating suicide politics is considered a game either 'side' wins.

I have NO HOPE in politics whatsoever, partisan or not.

I hope for a miracle, but I doubt one will come at our convenience.

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-13   10:31:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I just had Chris Matthews's show on on my TV. I had it playing in the background, and didn't listen to every word, so I may have missed something, but I didn't hear any discussion at all of Obama's remarks.

Ah....so why did he trip over his feet to apologize.....twice?

Not that it will save him. The Swift Boating is about to begin and frankly it couldn't happen to a more deserving politician. He ain't my brother, he's just another faker.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-13   10:40:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

He says his words were a truth everybody knows.

You know, when a politician begins to talk about truths "everybody knows" he attains a new level of absurdity. *Everybody* knows that.....

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-13   10:43:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Not that it will save him. The Swift Boating is about to begin and frankly it couldn't happen to a more deserving politician. He ain't my brother, he's just another faker.

I need to get to another rally so I can faint in his glory. .....kerplunk......

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-13   10:44:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

only ONE party

Two wings of the same party.

If we had different parties one would repeal the laws of the other. It never happens.

You can spot the moralist by his exaggerations - Unknown

YertleTurtle  posted on  2008-04-13   10:49:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

You know, when a politician begins to talk about truths "everybody knows" he attains a new level of absurdity. *Everybody* knows that.....

What exactly did he say that in your opinion is not true?

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-13   11:36:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

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