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Title: Obama on small-town PA: Clinging to religion, guns, xenophobia
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhi ... -surprise-that-ha_b_96188.html
Published: Apr 11, 2008
Author: Ben Smith
Post Date: 2008-04-11 19:39:50 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 6001
Comments: 263

Obama on small-town PA: Clinging to religion, guns, xenophobia

Huffpo's Mayhill Fowler has more from Obama's remarks at a San Francisco fundraiser Sunday, and they include an attempt to explain the resentment in small-town Pennsylvania that won't be appreciated by some of the people whose votes Obama's seeking:

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations. That's a pretty broad list of things to explain with job loss.

Click for Full Text!

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This will hurt him in PA which is a huge gun state.

I don't understand Jethro. How will it hurt him? You said you don't vote because the vote is rigged. So how would a rigged vote affect him?

Old Friend  posted on  2008-04-12   10:08:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The justices are pondering whether the 1976 District of Columbia law effectively prohibiting personal gun ownership in the nation's capital is constitutional. But Obama has not stated his position.

I'm sure Obama is somewhat conflicted on the issue having spent many years in an area where drive-by shootings abound.

Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-12   10:13:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Every word of what Obama said was true.

I found it interesting that both "sides" of the party, Clinton/McKook DID find it offensive. Very unusual.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-12   10:13:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

It will effect his popularity, not the eventual election result.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-12   10:18:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I'm sure Obama is somewhat conflicted on the issue having spent many years in an area where drive-by shootings abound.

Do you mean the years he spent in Hawaii, or those years at Harvard and Yale?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-12   10:24:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I'm not offended either. Every word of what Obama said was true.

Politicians who use Deliverance-like stereotypes to paint white voters with a broad brush will always fail .

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-12   10:28:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

http://www.alphecca.com/mt_alphecca_archives/002989.html

More on Obama's Anti-2A Stance I know that I covered it a month ago but regarding his voting as a state senator, yesterday the AP had more:

Obama regularly supported gun-control measures, including a ban on semiautomatic "assault weapons" and a limit on handgun purchases to one a month.

He also opposed letting people use a self-defense argument if charged with violating local handgun bans by using weapons in their homes. The bill was a reaction to a Chicago-area man who, after shooting an intruder, was charged with a handgun violation.

Supporters framed the issue as a fundamental question of whether homeowners have the right to protect themselves.

Obama joined several Chicago Democrats who argued the measure could open loopholes letting gun owners use their weapons on the street. They said local governments should have the final say, but the self-defense exception passed 41- 16 and ultimately became state law.

And remember that he is on record as stating that he would like a ban on all sales and transfers of ANY semi-automatic weapon. Barack Obama is for total gun control. He's not getting my vote.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-12   10:31:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Do you mean the years he spent in Hawaii, or those years at Harvard and Yale?

Well, of course you understood my comment, but you persist in wasting bandwidth with inane sarcasm.

Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-12   10:38:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I expect that in a week or so Obama will say "What's for breakfast?" and we'll hear howling outrage in wingnut press which again bleeds over into the non Republican controlled media. For me, the weekly outrage, usually set up on a weekend and continuing through the following week, is getting a little too predictable - especially when more and more parsing is necessary to understand the outrage.

.

...  posted on  2008-04-12   10:43:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Stereotypes are usually true, though. Obama never had a chance anyhow, but it IS refreshing to hear politicians at that level speak honestly and truthfully.

In fairness, McPain does the same sort of thing when he bluntly tells the hapless former auto workers of Michigan, "Your jobs are never coming back."

The truth of the matter is, and I can bluntly and honestly say this because I have NO political aspirations WHATSOEVER, that "Who's Sane?" Obummer and "Insane" McPain are both right.

They are both saying, in their own way, that the country is screwed, blued and tattooed and NEVER coming back.

It is both of their desires, as far as I can tell, to figure out how to subsume the decaying carcass of the U.S. system into the larger overall "Western" remnants of civilization, while still feeding off the carcass to provide the storm troopers for the Zionist oil wars in the Middle East.

Maybe I'm misreading Barack somewhat. He MAY genuinely wish to rebuilt this country in some way, but when you have Zbig Brzezinski as your principal foreign policy adviser, I somehow doubt it. Zbig is all about "The Great Game" and "The Grand Chessboard."

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-04-12   10:46:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Rendell and Ferraro, both long time democrat operatives and office holders have made it very clear that Obama will never be elected to the presidency because he is black.

The Obama supporters will not even consider this, coming from Obamas own party.

Yet when Paul was running they were in full cry that he could not win. Odd indeed.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-12   10:46:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

He's not getting my vote.

First indication we've had that you're casting one.

Does that mean you're opting for one of the single party monstrosities who have evidenced much more likelihood of declaring martial law or knocking on your door in all their intimidating Owellian BATF gear instead of the new kid on the block? Amazing.

Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-12   10:47:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

They are both saying, in their own way, that the country is screwed, blued and tattooed and NEVER coming back.

Odd reaction, Sam, to the one candidate who continues to beat the drum for change and hope while the other pumps for nuclear invasions and a hundred years of Iraq occupation.

Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-12   10:54:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

As you know the forum has a clique of Ds. All is fine w/the common enemy is Bush, but come election time - some - flash their true colors and muster into line. These same Ds go ape shit here w/an occasional R appears, BTW, which is fine by me. But I must admit I have noooooooooo idea how anyone could hold, at this moment in time, that one branch of the Party is superior than the other.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-12   10:55:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

And remember that he is on record as stating that he would like a ban on all sales and transfers of ANY semi-automatic weapon. Barack Obama is for total gun control.

Did you actually read the Novak column you posted?

Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-12   10:58:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Obama never had a chance anyhow, but it IS refreshing to hear politicians at that level speak honestly and truthfully.

I'm sure that negative thought crept into his mind early on ... it had to for a man with the intellect of Obama. But he plunged in and was surely astonished by the reception he received from Americans of all walks of life, especially young people.

It explains his early declaration of anticipating a need for federal funding for his campaign (which the weaseling McCain also toyed with but which he is now attempting to make an issue against Obama).

Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-12   11:11:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I said I might be misreading him.

I don't see how you can "hope" to "change" a system as close to collapse as this one is, financially speaking.

Maybe he is trying to make us feel better about ourselves as we edge ever closer to oblivion. It's not working on me. I do prefer him to McHundred. I am still surprised Clinton's Dixie Mafia hasn't taken a shot, literally, at him yet.

But a real "change" would be what Ron Paul was talking about — abolition of the Federal Reserve, for starters. No one proposing REAL "change" is allowed to get any traction. We just witnessed that with Paul's candidacy.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-04-12   11:11:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

But I must admit I have noooooooooo idea how anyone could hold, at this moment in time, that one branch of the Party is superior than the other.

Tom Coburn has never achieved a "branch" in the Republican Party, which says everything about that miserable bunch of scoundrels as far as I'm concerned.

But, the implication that either Republicans or Democrats are a homogeneous group is infantile.

Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-12   11:17:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The real laugh is going to come when they have to support and vote for Clinton/Obummer.

What will they use as justification for doing so???? Well, we have seen the worms squirm here, this way and that, to cover their sheep partisanship for ANYTHING democrat, now will we see them do somersaults slobbering all over Clinton/Obama.

Some here have no self worth at all. Their self esteem will be in the sewer when they have to idolize Hillary. Its coming, these people will don their kneepads and grovel all the way to the election.

They have no shame.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-12   11:24:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I said I might be misreading him.

Try thinking of him as the "Happy Warrior" (Al Smith) reincarnated. ;-)

No, scratch that.

Because if he fails it will be for the same reason as Al did, rural and southern prejudice.

Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-12   11:34:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The real laugh is going to come when they have to support and vote for Clinton/Obummer.

In your dreams.

They have no shame.

That's a hot one. ;-)

Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-12   11:38:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Yet when Paul was running they were in full cry that he could not win.

Funny. "They were in full cry". I don't remember saying that. I can only remember perhaps one of the posters currently favoring Obama saying something like that.

Am I misremembering?

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-12   11:42:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The real laugh is going to come when they have to support and vote for Clinton/Obummer.

Speaking of shame, will you admit you were wrong when Hillary does not get the presidential nomination?

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-12   11:45:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Al Smith's glorious defeat in 1928 laid the groundwork for the Democratic victories in 1930 and 1932.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-12   11:46:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Don't know how to post vid:

Below is audio from the April 6 Obama fundraiser in San Francisco:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/obama-no-surprise-that-ha_b_96188.html

OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.' That's...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing.

Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter).

But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What's the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is -- so, we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama's gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we're gonna provide health care for every American. So we'll go down a series of talking points.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you'll find is, is that people of every background -- there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing.

I think the folks in PA have a case for Reparations.

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-12   11:50:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

This is a dangerous man.

Yes.

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-12   11:51:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Every word of what Obama said was true.

When was the last time a politician said that much that is truthful?

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-12   11:53:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Speaking of shame, will you admit you were wrong when Hillary does not get the presidential nomination?

ari. Lets not go too deeply into political forecasts. Before you anointed Obama, you were selecting RPs VP, IIRC. Was it Kucinich or Gravel who captivated you most?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-12   11:54:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Obama: No Surprise That Hard-Pressed Pennsylvanians Turn Bitter www.huffingtonpost.com/ma...rise-that-ha_b_96188.html

In answer to the Wilkes-Barre gentleman's question about low levels of national pride, Senator Obama said, in part, that a new generation needs to move into government service, for there is "something big and noble and exciting and important about serving the country." First, however, Senator Obama-- and also Senators Clinton and McCain-- must see us and talk about us in such a way that sets the bar high. A leader will hold us to that standard. "Californians and Pennsylvanians," our next president must say, "find your best selves in one another."

Now, let's see, a draft would move a bunch of them in pretty quick.

Peppa  posted on  2008-04-12   11:54:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I grew up in Brooklyn and spent nearly 15 years in the NYPD so I have friend and foes who are black. It's the sheltered closet liberals who fawn over the Big O simply b/c he's black.

You're overgeneralizing. I grew up in the Bronx (and was beaten by a black gang with baseball bats in Landover MD 12 years ago).

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-12   11:57:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Before you anointed Obama, you were selecting RPs VP, IIRC.

It's true I was overoptimistic about Ron Paul's chances. And I expressed preferences about who he might pick as VP. But I don't think I made any predictions about who he would pick.

By the way, isn't Cynicom criticizing the Obamaphiles for all saying RP could not win. Isn't your posting testimony that he is wrong?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't, it's looking like.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-12   12:00:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

robin...

You see nothing in this to get upset about???

Every day, there are postings on this forum that prove the truth of Obama's statement.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-12   12:04:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

This is a dangerous man.

And that is a dangerous comment.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-12   12:06:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Because if he fails it will be for the same reason as Al did, rural and southern prejudice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ElectoralCollege1928-Large.png

It looks to me like the Deep South preferred Smith to Hoover. Their anti-GOP prejudice overcame their anti-Catholic prejudice at that point in our history.

It is hard to explain to today's youth that Southerners were once as virulently opposed to the Republican Party as most of them today are to the Democratic Party.

In 1928, people were still alive who remembered Lincoln ordering Sherman's March to the Sea.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-04-12   12:08:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Speaking of predictions, weren't you telling all of us a while ago that the Rev. Wright's comments had destroyed Obama's political chances?

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-12   12:09:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Yet when Paul was running they were in full cry that he could not win.

Funny. "They were in full cry". I don't remember saying that. I can only remember perhaps one of the posters currently favoring Obama saying something like that.

Am I misremembering?

I believe I was one of those.

I stated not only that RP was going to win ZERO primaries but that his running for the GOP nomination was going to hurt not help the cause of freedom because his run was going to help legitimize the GOP and the 2-party scheme.

I believe that I was correct on both counts.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-04-12   12:09:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

In 1928, the Republicans and Hoover took half the formerly solidly Democratic South.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-12   12:12:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I think Philly has had Blacks for many years.

Before the American Revolution, Philadelphia had a large population of slaves.

To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.

aristeides  posted on  2008-04-12   12:15:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Amazing, today Obama feels the heat and admits his improper wording. Strange, now Obama sees his insults but his white guilter grovelers here disagree with Obama.

Odd, Obama says I made a mistake but his worshippers deny it. Oh well.

"Barack Obama admitted Saturday that he chose his words poorly when he told a group of California donors that small-town Americans “cling” to guns and religion and xenophobia out of bitterness over lost jobs, but for the second day in a row stood by the comments and weathered pointed criticism from Hillary Clinton."

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-12   12:22:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Granted, but the worst rural Southern prejudices have always been found in the states of the Deep South (that's where most of the violence broke out during the Civil Rights Era) and Smith carried those.

Texas, Virginia and Florida are on the periphery of the Deep South, albeit all three seceded and had to endure Mr. Lincoln's "charms" to bring them back.

I work with a lady who is originally from Mississippi. She was shocked to learn that Virginia is considered a Southern state. She said she consider them to be Yankees.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-04-12   12:24:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

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