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Title: Obama on small-town PA: Clinging to religion, guns, xenophobia
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URL Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhi ... -surprise-that-ha_b_96188.html
Published: Apr 11, 2008
Author: Ben Smith
Post Date: 2008-04-11 19:39:50 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 5294
Comments: 263
Obama on small-town PA: Clinging to religion, guns, xenophobia Huffpo's Mayhill Fowler has more from Obama's remarks at a San Francisco fundraiser Sunday, and they include an attempt to explain the resentment in small-town Pennsylvania that won't be appreciated by some of the people whose votes Obama's seeking: You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations. That's a pretty broad list of things to explain with job loss.
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#1. To: christine (#0)
RACIST. Fullout.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
This is the furore du jour on Lou Dobbs' show and, I suspect on other shows. Hillary says that it's not true. She only saw pumped up people, full of enthusiasm and ready to roll sleeves. The McCain says that it's unbelievable to say the truth about people being bitter. I mean... don't we all love it? My view: he proves, again, that he is a thinking man, capable of facing reality. I believe that the essence of what he said is true. What's missing, and maybe this thing is all out of context, is how he things this is going to develop. Is there a happy end? I'm curious of what his views are on where we are going. On the other hand, I don't know what these bitter people are going to do when they hear Hillary claiming that everyone is cheerful and full of enthusiasms. Interestingly, on Lou Dobbs' poll... Do you believe that Senator Barack Obama's comments reveal his elitist attitude toward every hardworking American? Dobbsy usually gets 99.5% supporting what he wants to be supported. This time the majority is with the Obamer. Very interesting, while the punditry are screaming political Obamicide.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
I see Clinton and McKooK have picked up on this. We hill billy white trash of small town Pa. do own guns, always have, do go to Church always have, and we do dislike slicks from Chicago or any other large city that pass by with their arrogant mouth. "antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment" You bet, we now have blacks, all from the eastern cities, and every one of them are on welfare, living in taxpayer subsidized housing, not a one of them work. Tell you what slick, up front, hundreds of us changed registration just to vote against you on April 22.
I think Philly has had Blacks for many years. At the end of the 18th century, Philadelphia was a city of hope for African Americans. Pennsylvania had passed the first gradual abolition act, and Philadelphia was home by 1790 to some 2,000 free blacks. Some had bought their freedom after working during the Revolutionary War, some had been freed because by slaveholders moved by revolutionary ideals. All had hopes for the future in the new country built on the ideals of independence, but doubts as to whether the declarations of liberty and equality would apply to them. 'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
Up yours Barry Hussain.....sell that crap to the California freaks. I'll be here with my guns. I just came back from a Ron Paul rally at PSU. I was pleasantly surprised at the number of kids (1500, give or take in the rain) and their desire for freedom from central government.
Don't confuse me with the facts like that. I WANT to believe Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton loaded up the buses with them and shipped them up there to torment Cyni just recently.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
My small town has never, ever had blacks. Now we do. They did have enough smarts to get out of Philly and its crime. We do not even have a cop, not a one, closest one is 15 miles away. They do sponge off our social services but just perhaps their children will learn something from the local white trash that go to church and love their guns.
This from McKooK... "McCain adviser Steve Schmidt called Obama’s statement “remarkable” and “extremely revealing.” “It shows an elitism and condescension towards hardworking Americans that is nothing short of breathtaking,” Schmidt said. “It is hard to imagine someone running for president of the United States who is more out of touch with average Americans.” Schmidt also said it shows Obama views the people he’s trying to relate to with “contempt.”
I was raised by a black woman. Was a pallbearer at her funeral a couple of years ago. She was 93. I loved that woman as much as I do my own mother. I went to school with blacks, played football and other sports with them, etc. East Texas is heavily "white trash" also, as you would put it. There are sorry white people and good black people as well as the reverse of that. This small town is somewhat similar to what Obama was describing, but not entirely. I think where he got it wrong was saying that a fascination with guns and religion comes from economic distress. No, it predated it. It's in people's blood in the Bible/Ammo Belt.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
Is he talking about this statement? I see nothing in this to get upset about.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
robin... You see nothing in this to get upset about??? Even Clinton and McKooK took umbrage and I can tell you this, I take personal offense to anyone suggesting I "cling" to religion.
It's a slap to the gun culture, and given his previous statements on the 2nd, will hurt him. It's already leading the cable news shows.
Its slap to all of us and I hope the local rags carry it in banners tomorrow as even dead head local democrats will curse Obama.
I suppose it would depend upon the way it was said. But the entire context is one of sympathy. What if he had said they cling to their families and churches?
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
He's saying that it is not surprising that there is a lot of distrust in a small community that has been through job losses, IMO.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
Cyni, Olbermann MSNBC opened his show w/the statement in complete context and he knows it's damaging.
sympathy.????? Perhaps I need new glasses or a better translation.
When Hillary Clinton decides it is racial arrogance, you better believe she knows from her own experience. I hope they beat Obama over the head with it. The local rags will certainly be all over it tomorrow.
I take it as a typical liberal condescending comment, especially given his gun- grabbing proclivities. This will hurt him in PA which is a huge gun state.
Or maybe a beer? ;P
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
I live in the ammo belt. Sounds catchy.
The U.S. Constitution is no impediment to our form of government.--PJ O'Rourke
It has already begun and it isn't limited to Hillary. McKooK has chimed in too.
If you are offended, then I suppose it was insensitive. But I honestly don't think he meant it that way.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
That is very true. Maybe he meant they are leaning back on what is familiar and secure.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
I can assure you that thousands of Pa neanderthals will be POed tomorrow morning. Any man that would make such a statement has no qualifications for the office of president, none. He suffers from elitism hoof and mouth disease.
I'm actually not offended. Nothing a politician says can offend and/or shock me any longer. I've written them out of my life. Believe it or not I'm being objective here and IMO his comment is a mega mistake. His 2nd amendment positions will now be the focus of both Hillary and McCain and when it's examined closely, it's a deal buster for middle America.
Nope, it's pure communism in action. Using peoples hard times against them again -- making an assertion that guns and religion are false posessions of security. The right leader will help relieve you to cast away such antiquated thinking and fetishes. We will give you a new religion and security state.
That is the exact message that his NWO masters have programmed him to utter.
Agreed.
Bye bye, Obama. You just became a small footnote in history.
And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations. That's a pretty broad list of things to explain with job loss. Bye bye, Obama. Man, I think (hope) you're right. Dude can't help but step on his own, true colors.
Barry Obama -- In your heart, you know he's wrong.
This is a dangerous man.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition "Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." © IndieTx You bet, we now have blacks, all from the eastern cities, and every one of them are on welfare, living in taxpayer subsidized housing, not a one of them work. I swear you must live near me.. ;-)
While there are a cpl small towns here, that "may" fit his statement, the other 99% of Pa does not fit it.. Yes, we have Guns, Yes, we go to Church and Yes, we have lost Jobs, but we Don't Give Up and we sure don't Give In..
Their kids or grandkids will make it feel just like home.
...Both methods yielded similar results, which support the previous findings; that is, of all modern human samples, sub-Saharan Africans again exhibit the closest phenetic similarity to various African Plio-Pleistocene hominins... For years we had a large sign along the main road that leads to civilization that read, "FLATLANDERS GO HOME". That was for uppity whites from the big "cities". We is all "cuzins" here.
I wont be here to see it.
"It's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations," he said. "Robert A. Gleason Jr., chairman of the Republican Party of Pennsylvania called the remarks "incredibly insulting" and predicted that many in his state, where Mr. Obama has trailed Mrs. Clinton in surveys and polls poorly against Mr. McCain, would agree. "In light of this most recent statement, I believe Americans are going to have even more questions about his values. Not only do these comments reveal a condescending elitism, Obama illustrates to us just how out of touch he is with middle-class America." Mr. Gleason said."
I'm not surprised that Barry slipped on a banana peel, after all haven't we spent the better part of last month documentation his various left-wing political positions? Even his admirers can't rationally argue that he isn't a gun grabber. What blows me away is that despite what we've uncovered, he is still their guy. Geraldine Ferraro is right; if he were white, he'd never be where he is today.
I've heard people say they will not vote for the lesser "evil". Well I will, even though Diebold exists; I must try to minimize the damage. John McCain is so undeniably worse than Barack Obama, there is no contest. Europe is "socialist" or "liberal", yet they are not on the brink of destruction, yet. But we are. We can survive a liberal presidency, but we will not survive another NeoCon administration.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
My view: he proves, again, that he is a thinking man, capable of facing reality. Exactly. Anyone who takes the time to watch the speech can see that Obama was empathizing with the people he has observed. But the large knee-jerk proportion of the populace led by an MSM that loves to throw what they perceive as red meat to the yahoos .... and, of course, the phony, hypocritical, demagogic establishment opponents of the new guy jump in with relish.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
I submit that GWB is both a liberal and a neocon, proving that neos and libs aren't mutual exclusive. Barry's multiple positions indicate he's more of the same, with an even more left leaning domestic agenda than the current occupant.
O course, as well as western PA. Our local university has been recruiting superb athletes out of that area for many years. Cyni lives in his own little world.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
Same here Sam. I have a dear friend whom I met in a golf league and who later became my partner in that league. He was to become the attorney I leaned on later to support my precious youngest daughter in court after she became crack addicted. I am convinced that many here have an acquaintance with blacks formed only via the eleven o'clock news.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
I have to wonder which half of Obama is it that supporters are so in love with. For some reason I suspect it is the black half. In reality it appears to be the white half that is speaking. Blacks that I know love their guns and go to church, and like Obummer, live in white neighborhoods. So we have a far leftwing gun grabber that parades his ties to a church that thinks that is all a bad idea. "Appears that Obama white is conning the white guilters".
Calm down Cyni, I doubt if anyone here leaped to that conclusion. ;-)
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
Yep, the neighborhood activist suffers from elitism, but you side with the Wellesley girl, and the "dump you're crippled wife and marry into money", Annapolis son of Admirals as being jus' folks. How on earth did a plutocrat get himself exiled to hillbilly heaven?
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
What an amazing ignorant statement. I grew up in Brooklyn and spent nearly 15 years in the NYPD so I have friend and foes who are black. It's the sheltered closet liberals who fawn over the Big O simply b/c he's black. The man is a gun grabbing leftist, with close ties to other leftists. Your cheer leading for him is borderline cultist.
Agreed, but IMO his comment is a Much like George Romney's "brain-washed" comment.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
It's evident.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
I grew up in small town western PA and Obama is right on target. When a new Wal- Mart store opens, it's a step up for many.
Obama's Gun Dance Send an email to Robert D. Novak Barack Obama, who informs campaign audiences that he taught constitutional law for 10 years, might be expected to weigh in on the historic Second Amendment case before the U.S. Supreme Court. The justices are pondering whether the 1976 District of Columbia law effectively prohibiting personal gun ownership in the nation's capital is constitutional. But Obama has not stated his position. Obama, disagreeing with the D.C. government and gun control advocates, declares that the Second Amendment's "right of the people to keep and bear arms" applies to individuals, not just the "well regulated militia" in the amendment. In the next breath, he asserts that this constitutional guarantee does not preclude local "common sense" restrictions on firearms. Does the draconian prohibition in Washington fit that description? My attempts to get an answer have proved unavailing. The front- running Democratic presidential candidate is doing the gun dance. That is a dance that many Democrats do, as revealed in private conversation with party strategists. As urban liberals, they reject constitutional protection for gun owners. As campaign managers, they want to avoid the fate of the many Democratic candidates who have lost elections because of gun control advocacy. The party's House leadership last year pulled from the floor a bill for a congressional seat for the District to protect Democratic members from having to vote on a Republican amendment against the D.C. gun law. Hillary Clinton has extolled the Second Amendment, though not to the degree Obama has. Campaigning at Iowa's Cornell College on Dec. 5, he asserted that the Second Amendment "is an individual right and not just a right of the militia." He has repeated that formulation along the primary trail, declaring at a Milwaukee news conference before the Feb. 19 Wisconsin primary: "I believe the Second Amendment means something. . . . There is an individual right to bear arms." That would imply that the D.C. gun law is unconstitutional. Mayor Adrian Fenty's brief to the Supreme Court rests on the proposition that the Second Amendment "protects the possession and use of guns only in service of an organized militia." Consequently, I concluded in a March 13 column about the case that Obama had "weighed in against the D.C. law." On March 24, a reader wrote in an e-mail to The Post that "Obama supports the D.C. law" and demanded a correction. That was based on an Associated Press account of Obama's Milwaukee news conference asserting that "he voiced support for the District of Columbia's ban on handguns." In fact, all he said was: "The notion that somehow local jurisdictions can't initiate gun safety laws to deal with gang-bangers and random shootings on the street isn't borne out by our Constitution." That leaves Obama unrevealed on the D.C. law. In response to my inquiry about his specific position, Obama's campaign e-mailed me a one-paragraph answer: Obama believes that while the "Second Amendment creates an individual right, . . . he also believes that the Constitution permits federal, state and local government to adopt reasonable and common sense gun safety measures." Though the paragraph is titled "Obama on the D.C. Court case," that specific gun ban is never mentioned. I tried again last week, without success, to learn Obama's position before writing this column. Obama's dance on gun rights is part of his evolution from the radical young Illinois state legislator he once was. He was recorded in a 1996 questionnaire as advocating a ban on the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns (a position he has since disavowed). He was on the board of the Chicago-based Joyce Foundation, which takes an aggressive gun control position, and in 2000 considered becoming its full-time president. In 2006, he voted with an 84 to 16 majority (and against Clinton) to prohibit confiscation of firearms during an emergency, but that is his only pro-gun vote in Springfield or Washington. The National Rifle Association grades his voting record (and Clinton's) an "F." There is no anti-gun litmus test for Democrats. In 2006, Ted Strickland was elected governor of Ohio and Bob Casey U.S. senator from Pennsylvania with NRA grades of "A." Following their model, Obama talks about the rights of "Americans to protect their families." He has not yet stated whether that right should exist in Washington.
I'm not offended either. Every word of what Obama said was true.
Several decades ago I stopped with my family in a small western PA town, filled with boarded up small businesses to spend the night in a a beautiful new 3-story motel. It's management and staff were a wonderful congregation of optimistic, eager to serve folks. It was one of the nicest stopover experiences we ever experienced. They even supplied a babysitting service which my wife and eagerly took advantage of for an refreshening evening of drinks and dinner. Our six kids loved the pool. I passed through the town a few years later and this magnificent enterprise too was boarded up. Bitterness?, yeah, I understand it.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
I know that full well, Jethro. The comment was directed to those for whom the shoe fits. Their name is legion.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
I don't understand Jethro. How will it hurt him? You said you don't vote because the vote is rigged. So how would a rigged vote affect him?
I'm sure Obama is somewhat conflicted on the issue having spent many years in an area where drive-by shootings abound.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
I found it interesting that both "sides" of the party, Clinton/McKook DID find it offensive. Very unusual.
It will effect his popularity, not the eventual election result.
Do you mean the years he spent in Hawaii, or those years at Harvard and Yale?
Politicians who use Deliverance-like stereotypes to paint white voters with a broad brush will always fail .
More on Obama's Anti-2A Stance I know that I covered it a month ago but regarding his voting as a state senator, yesterday the AP had more: Obama regularly supported gun-control measures, including a ban on semiautomatic "assault weapons" and a limit on handgun purchases to one a month. He also opposed letting people use a self-defense argument if charged with violating local handgun bans by using weapons in their homes. The bill was a reaction to a Chicago-area man who, after shooting an intruder, was charged with a handgun violation. Supporters framed the issue as a fundamental question of whether homeowners have the right to protect themselves. Obama joined several Chicago Democrats who argued the measure could open loopholes letting gun owners use their weapons on the street. They said local governments should have the final say, but the self-defense exception passed 41- 16 and ultimately became state law. And remember that he is on record as stating that he would like a ban on all sales and transfers of ANY semi-automatic weapon. Barack Obama is for total gun control. He's not getting my vote.
Well, of course you understood my comment, but you persist in wasting bandwidth with inane sarcasm.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
I expect that in a week or so Obama will say "What's for breakfast?" and we'll hear howling outrage in wingnut press which again bleeds over into the non Republican controlled media. For me, the weekly outrage, usually set up on a weekend and continuing through the following week, is getting a little too predictable - especially when more and more parsing is necessary to understand the outrage.
.
Stereotypes are usually true, though. Obama never had a chance anyhow, but it IS refreshing to hear politicians at that level speak honestly and truthfully. In fairness, McPain does the same sort of thing when he bluntly tells the hapless former auto workers of Michigan, "Your jobs are never coming back." The truth of the matter is, and I can bluntly and honestly say this because I have NO political aspirations WHATSOEVER, that "Who's Sane?" Obummer and "Insane" McPain are both right. They are both saying, in their own way, that the country is screwed, blued and tattooed and NEVER coming back. It is both of their desires, as far as I can tell, to figure out how to subsume the decaying carcass of the U.S. system into the larger overall "Western" remnants of civilization, while still feeding off the carcass to provide the storm troopers for the Zionist oil wars in the Middle East. Maybe I'm misreading Barack somewhat. He MAY genuinely wish to rebuilt this country in some way, but when you have Zbig Brzezinski as your principal foreign policy adviser, I somehow doubt it. Zbig is all about "The Great Game" and "The Grand Chessboard."
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
Rendell and Ferraro, both long time democrat operatives and office holders have made it very clear that Obama will never be elected to the presidency because he is black. The Obama supporters will not even consider this, coming from Obamas own party. Yet when Paul was running they were in full cry that he could not win. Odd indeed.
First indication we've had that you're casting one. Does that mean you're opting for one of the single party monstrosities who have evidenced much more likelihood of declaring martial law or knocking on your door in all their intimidating Owellian BATF gear instead of the new kid on the block? Amazing.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
Odd reaction, Sam, to the one candidate who continues to beat the drum for change and hope while the other pumps for nuclear invasions and a hundred years of Iraq occupation.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
As you know the forum has a clique of Ds. All is fine w/the common enemy is Bush, but come election time - some - flash their true colors and muster into line. These same Ds go ape shit here w/an occasional R appears, BTW, which is fine by me. But I must admit I have noooooooooo idea how anyone could hold, at this moment in time, that one branch of the Party is superior than the other.
Did you actually read the Novak column you posted?
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
I'm sure that negative thought crept into his mind early on ... it had to for a man with the intellect of Obama. But he plunged in and was surely astonished by the reception he received from Americans of all walks of life, especially young people. It explains his early declaration of anticipating a need for federal funding for his campaign (which the weaseling McCain also toyed with but which he is now attempting to make an issue against Obama).
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
I said I might be misreading him. I don't see how you can "hope" to "change" a system as close to collapse as this one is, financially speaking. Maybe he is trying to make us feel better about ourselves as we edge ever closer to oblivion. It's not working on me. I do prefer him to McHundred. I am still surprised Clinton's Dixie Mafia hasn't taken a shot, literally, at him yet. But a real "change" would be what Ron Paul was talking about — abolition of the Federal Reserve, for starters. No one proposing REAL "change" is allowed to get any traction. We just witnessed that with Paul's candidacy.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
Tom Coburn has never achieved a "branch" in the Republican Party, which says everything about that miserable bunch of scoundrels as far as I'm concerned. But, the implication that either Republicans or Democrats are a homogeneous group is infantile.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
The real laugh is going to come when they have to support and vote for Clinton/Obummer. What will they use as justification for doing so???? Well, we have seen the worms squirm here, this way and that, to cover their sheep partisanship for ANYTHING democrat, now will we see them do somersaults slobbering all over Clinton/Obama. Some here have no self worth at all. Their self esteem will be in the sewer when they have to idolize Hillary. Its coming, these people will don their kneepads and grovel all the way to the election. They have no shame.
Try thinking of him as the "Happy Warrior" (Al Smith) reincarnated. ;-) No, scratch that. Because if he fails it will be for the same reason as Al did, rural and southern prejudice.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
The real laugh is going to come when they have to support and vote for Clinton/Obummer. In your dreams. They have no shame. That's a hot one. ;-)
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
Funny. "They were in full cry". I don't remember saying that. I can only remember perhaps one of the posters currently favoring Obama saying something like that. Am I misremembering?
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Speaking of shame, will you admit you were wrong when Hillary does not get the presidential nomination?
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Al Smith's glorious defeat in 1928 laid the groundwork for the Democratic victories in 1930 and 1932.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Below is audio from the April 6 Obama fundraiser in San Francisco: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/obama-no-surprise-that-ha_b_96188.html OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.' That's...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing. Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter). But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What's the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is -- so, we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama's gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we're gonna provide health care for every American. So we'll go down a series of talking points. But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations. Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you'll find is, is that people of every background -- there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing. I think the folks in PA have a case for Reparations.
Yes.
When was the last time a politician said that much that is truthful?
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
ari. Lets not go too deeply into political forecasts. Before you anointed Obama, you were selecting RPs VP, IIRC. Was it Kucinich or Gravel who captivated you most?
In answer to the Wilkes-Barre gentleman's question about low levels of national pride, Senator Obama said, in part, that a new generation needs to move into government service, for there is "something big and noble and exciting and important about serving the country." First, however, Senator Obama-- and also Senators Clinton and McCain-- must see us and talk about us in such a way that sets the bar high. A leader will hold us to that standard. "Californians and Pennsylvanians," our next president must say, "find your best selves in one another." Now, let's see, a draft would move a bunch of them in pretty quick.
You're overgeneralizing. I grew up in the Bronx (and was beaten by a black gang with baseball bats in Landover MD 12 years ago).
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
It's true I was overoptimistic about Ron Paul's chances. And I expressed preferences about who he might pick as VP. But I don't think I made any predictions about who he would pick. By the way, isn't Cynicom criticizing the Obamaphiles for all saying RP could not win. Isn't your posting testimony that he is wrong? Damned if you do, damned if you don't, it's looking like.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
robin... You see nothing in this to get upset about??? Every day, there are postings on this forum that prove the truth of Obama's statement.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
And that is a dangerous comment.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ElectoralCollege1928-Large.png It looks to me like the Deep South preferred Smith to Hoover. Their anti-GOP prejudice overcame their anti-Catholic prejudice at that point in our history. It is hard to explain to today's youth that Southerners were once as virulently opposed to the Republican Party as most of them today are to the Democratic Party. In 1928, people were still alive who remembered Lincoln ordering Sherman's March to the Sea.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
Speaking of predictions, weren't you telling all of us a while ago that the Rev. Wright's comments had destroyed Obama's political chances?
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Funny. "They were in full cry". I don't remember saying that. I can only remember perhaps one of the posters currently favoring Obama saying something like that. Am I misremembering? I believe I was one of those. I stated not only that RP was going to win ZERO primaries but that his running for the GOP nomination was going to hurt not help the cause of freedom because his run was going to help legitimize the GOP and the 2-party scheme. I believe that I was correct on both counts.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
In 1928, the Republicans and Hoover took half the formerly solidly Democratic South.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Before the American Revolution, Philadelphia had a large population of slaves.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Amazing, today Obama feels the heat and admits his improper wording. Strange, now Obama sees his insults but his white guilter grovelers here disagree with Obama. Odd, Obama says I made a mistake but his worshippers deny it. Oh well. "Barack Obama admitted Saturday that he chose his words poorly when he told a group of California donors that small-town Americans “cling” to guns and religion and xenophobia out of bitterness over lost jobs, but for the second day in a row stood by the comments and weathered pointed criticism from Hillary Clinton."
Granted, but the worst rural Southern prejudices have always been found in the states of the Deep South (that's where most of the violence broke out during the Civil Rights Era) and Smith carried those. Texas, Virginia and Florida are on the periphery of the Deep South, albeit all three seceded and had to endure Mr. Lincoln's "charms" to bring them back. I work with a lady who is originally from Mississippi. She was shocked to learn that Virginia is considered a Southern state. She said she consider them to be Yankees.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
It's true Obama says he could have expressed himself better. But what in what he said is untrue?
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
In 1928, that "periphery" extended as far deep as North Carolina. And, at the time, Florida and Texas were pretty Deep South.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
The fact Obama has the racial background he does is a welcome change, but not enough to decide to vote for someone. I support him pure and simple as the best individual in this race where the contestants have to get the nod by the power elite of actually choosing to do a good job as POTUS and has the talents politically to do it well. You are hug up on this model of claiming supporters are hung up on a model of being weak in the knees in the face of a great black hope and this is actually a paradox where you do much of what you accuse others are doing. I know you won't agree, but that is the way I see it. Obama is actually lighter then many Caucasians I know. I am a quarter Puerto Rican and when I work in the sun - and I have as a forest worker and a bicyclist - I am darker then he is. Though perhaps he could out tan me, who is to say? My point is of course that skin coloring, hair type, lip or nose shape, or whatever esthetics people get hung up on, it means nothing about the value of each individual human being when all the bull shit about race is analyzed and but to bed and you look finally solely at a person on the basis of what they are as human beings. Obama could be plaid for all I care if he is a candidate who could chose to be a good POTUS that restores Constitutional government; I know that merely by blocking two proven to be insane and selfish opponents as the first plus of him winning is a bleak way to look at this, but definitely realistic. The lesser evil argument has a life of it's own because of that, but I don't see this as something that will go away any time soon. The powers that be are not going to give up their hold on making the choices of who are choices will be, not without a fight anyway. This is just my opinion on the matter, I am not interested in focusing all election cycle on minor details such as what ethnic or racial background any candidate has. There are just too many other things to worry about.
Only a Paul, or Barr, presidency would offer a small glimmer of hope for a change.imo
hell no.
First lets see who does NOT agree with you. Obama himself. Hillary Clinton, fellow democrat. McKooK, "adversary" republican. And last but not least most of the major media outlets. Therefore you are placing yourself with the elitist views of white rural America. Actually Ari, I am not surprised, as you have always had elitist views here which I and other tolerate.
This is an absurd analysis.
Did you or did you not just yesterday comment that you hope he wins?
That's sad. The dumbing-down must be near complete.
see orangedog's post here. i don't know why you would expect that Obama would restore constitutional government. ok, he said he'd restore habeas corpus, but look at his position on the 2nd and remember he voted for the Patriot Act. i do agree that if he truly were a constitutionalist, i wouldn't care what color he is.
That they suupport gun rights, don't support illegal immigration or are anti- NAFTA becasue they're bitter they don't have jobs? WTF is wrong with you?
He's not talking about Philly. You talk like you know something about Pennsylvania...do you?
Peas in a pod.
Correct, peas in a pod, however to be fair, you must admit there is ZERO support here for Clinton and McKooK.
A BHO presidency would show how little difference the sock-puppet makes to the controllers. The two guys who are my age, smirk & bentmember, have done such an amazingly disgusting job, that I'm ready for a nominal change.
Black migration into the city was heavy from the end of the Revolution until about 1815. People came from rural areas in a hundred-mile radius around Philadelphia, as well as from the South, attracted by job prospects and the promise of living among other free black people. Refugees from the revolution in St. Domingue (later Haiti) and fugitive slaves added to the influx of blacks in the city. Philadelphia was over 90 percent white, but its black community helped buffer the hostility of whites and provided an alternative to rural isolation. Many blacks were able to find work as mariners, day laborers and domestic servants. Many also worked as entrepreneurs, often serving a predominantly black clientele. Both men and women often worked to support their families. While some destitute blacks lived near the river, a few prospered and were able to invest in income-producing property. By 1796, black communities were growing along the northern and southern borders of the city. By 1830, all of the city's 14,500 black people were free, while the white population had grown to 150,000. After 1799, a small but growing number of black professionals included doctors, teachers, clergymen, hairdressers, shoemakers, bakers, tailors, sailmakers, teamsters, food caterers, carpenters, musicians, and many other professions. In 1811, the city directory listed 81 black men who owned their own businesses; by 1816, the number was 180. Most women worked as domestic laborers, but some were teachers, or owned their own businesses. Together these people created a black middle class. more from that link I posted yesterday... www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part3/3narr1.html If there were Blacks in Philly before 1776, it should not be surprising there are Blacks in the rural areas as well. I have ancestors from PA, Germans who settled there after being burnt out of Catholic strongholds during the 30 Years War. My interest in PA is more historical than anything else. Cyni was attempting to make it sound like Blacks had just arrived in PA, I linked to some history that shows that is not the case.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
Wow.
I do too. ;)
robin... I think if you read back you will see I refer to myself as....hill billy white trash........that hardly encompasses Philly which is nearly all black.
So why did you insinuate that Blacks are new to PA?
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
No he wasn't. He lives in rural NE PA. He was commenting that his area had had few blacks. If there were Blacks in Philly before 1776, it should not be surprising there are Blacks in the rural areas as well. Do you know much about small towns and rural areas in PA? I don't think you do becasue your comments make it seem that your familiarity is in liberal urban areas.
robin... Blacks are NEW here in the hills where I live. That was plain in my post as I said they were all on welfare, none work and they all live in subsidized housing.
Yes, I see some support Obama, but I don't get it.
And the link I gave you specifically says the Blacks in Philly came from the rural areas into the city. Therefore, they are NOT new to the rural areas of PA. They were once living as slaves in PA rural areas. Here's another link on this: www.slavenorth.com/pennsylvania.htm SLAVERY in PENNSYLVANIA In the early 1600s, the Delaware Valley was an outlying region of the New Netherland colony on the Hudson, governed by the Dutch West India Company and populated by Dutch and Swedes more interested in fur trapping than farming. It faced the same labor shortage that plagued New Netherland, and it found the same solution. African slaves were working there as early as 1639. In 1664, the Delaware settlers contracted the West India Company "to transport hither a lot of Negroes for agricultural purposes."
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
I'm not sure where Cyni is talking about but blacks are new to certain areas. The Pocono region has become a Western suburb of NYC (2 hours away), with low taxes and new tracts of reasonable, new cost housing. There is, or was, a complete absence of crime b/c of the gun culture is exceptional strong.
Whatever...there's bigger disappointments than your complacency.
Same with Switzerland, but then they also have a relatively to very well-off homogeneous population. I once saw a 60 Minutes (I think) segment on how the Swiss got rid of their Gypsy crime problem; in the 1950s they kidnapped all the children of Gypsies and adopted them out to good Swiss families. Brutal but effective (I'm not in favor of such methods, but it's better than the Nazi solution for Gypsies).
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
[Smith] did carry the Deep South, thanks in part to his running mate, Senator Joseph Robinson from Arkansas....
The U.S. Constitution is no impediment to our form of government.--PJ O'Rourke
Most Southerners are not virulently opposed to the Democratic Party. Check the makeup of legislatures in the South.
The U.S. Constitution is no impediment to our form of government.--PJ O'Rourke
i think you missed my point. this is my reason. "so that either the O'philes or the O'phobes get the Op to say "I told you so." since we know, we're going to be given one of the 3 (assuming there's not a Ron Paul miracle), i want to see what Obama will do. otherwise, it will always be 'what if' and the disagreement among us regarding him will never be resolved.
What indications of this have you seen? The powers that be are not going to give up their hold on making the choices of who are choices will be, not without a fight anyway. On what basis do you conclude that Obama is not one of their choices?
The U.S. Constitution is no impediment to our form of government.--PJ O'Rourke
True, they aren't under active invasion by 3rd worlders nor do they have politicians like Mayor Nutter of Philadelphia who removes law (never mind constitutional rights) with the wave of his hand.
The thing is, no matter who wins, there will be plenty of opportunities for "I told you so". We'll never know how bad or good it would have been had the other candidate won, unless you believe it makes no difference whatsoever. I believe it makes some difference (but will it be enough difference?). For example, would an Al Gore presidency have been different? Some say no. I cannot prove it would have been different, but I can point to the Clinton years as less damaging than the Bush years.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
Plus, they fiercely guard their borders: best you have a valid reason to be in their country or you're toast.
The Swiss are also very protectionist regarding trade, although they think so-called "free trade" is great for everyone else.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
all of us on 4 are in agreement on mcCain and hillary. it's obama we're in disagreement on. i'd like a resolution on this and, truly, if i'm wrong and obama proves to be "enough of a difference," i'll be happy to get an "i told you so." ;)
It would not surprise me if we have a few here who will vote for McCain.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
He has the opportunity to show he is not just about rhetoric and a fresh start that will invigorate things undoing the damage Bush and company has done, or he can turn out to be a patsy and all this the most two dimensional of electioneering rhetoric possible to produce. He too can be an 'appointment' that angers his benefators as much as it has people who turned up to support the wrong Associate Justice being appointed to the Supreme Court have. I vote on my hopes as well as my take on a person, which some won't do anymore which is fine, I understand their rational too. I am going to vote for Obama based on an intelligent guess and gut feeling as much as for any reason. Just as I will do some of the usual grunt work for his campaign to give me a better feel about him and the body of voters must supporting him as much for any other reason to do that sort of grass roots work.
Adj. 1. xenophobic - suffering from xenophobia; having abnormal fear or hatred of the strange or foreign afraid - filled with fear or apprehension; "afraid even to turn his head"; "suddenly looked afraid"; "afraid for his life"; "afraid of snakes"; "afraid to ask questions"
The Clinton years were not less damaging than the Bush years in the least. Just becasue we had no 9/11, no Iraq war, and no recession hardly means they were less damaging. You are not the only one who thinks this, but it is not correct thinking at all. Clinton was responsible for China getting the nuclear missile technology to be able to launch ICBMs that can reach American soil. That is extremely damaging to this nation's future. Clinton was responsible for the massacre of the Christian Serbs in Kosovo, and the bombing of Christian churches almost 1000 years old. And the only reason we didn't have a recession while he was President was due to the dot com bubble and the Fed pumping enormous amounts of money into the economy.
God is always good!
Edited: I misread your post. Thought you were supporting Obama, sorry.
God is always good!
You left out Waco, where women and children were slaughtered by the dozens and Americans said nothing. That was the first time in our history that we learned that the President of the US could and did kill Americans without a hint of retribution.
I had read what you said about why you "want Obama to win". Do you seriously believe that any Obama failure will resolve "the disagreement among us?" Any failure will be rationalized as due to forces beyond his control. Our country is lost and the likes of McWar, Rodham or Obama aren't the sort to set it straight. The election is merely a distraction for the plebes away from any cause to set right what's left of this ship of state. Pandering to the "believers" is simply wasted effort. They can't see the danger. Throwing your lot in with them is just more obfuscation and is a detriment to this forum, the way I see it. No offense intended.
China didn't need our technology. It helped some and I'm sure the PLA gleaned all it could from Loral and Bernard Schwartz, but the Chinese are very smart people to begin with. The Chinese invented gunpowder. If China is such a threat, why didn't we stop everything back in 1964 when it joined the nuclear club and scream to all the world that we had to stop the crazy Chinese from getting nukes the way we do now with Iran?
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
Are you outta yo damn mind? He laid the groundwork for the corporate takeover of America.
Lets not forget Clinton gave us an imperial presidency, one where a treaty - NAFTA - was disguised as an agreement, he destroyed posse comitatus at Waco, and ruled by executive order, "Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Kind of cool," sais former Clinton adviser Paul Begala. On his last day in office Clinton's EOs freed convicted drug dealer and turned over the deed to thousand of acres of acres of land to the government among other insults. As I have said from the beginning of this debate, with each successive presidency during my lifetime we have become less free. If hope is all one can use to advance Obama, given all he has said, the words of Pogo would make a fitting epitaph; "We have met the enemy and he is us."
Much easier for politicians to stick to the polically correct talking points. Pointing out the obvious, especially about ourselves, doesn't win votes. Feed the masses what they want to hear even if it doesn't match up with reality.
Absolutely. Most of the opposition to immigration and trade comes from those who are affected by it or whose lifestyles or survival is threatened by them. Did you think it was different. As for people going to church more often when they are insecure - this is not news to you, or it shouldn't be. And anyone feeling angry and discouraged and caring more about their little shooters under such circumstances... of course they do and of course they are. You don't believe that it is so?
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
That's becasue you might be blind and just don't know it. Forget Obama, he won't help you or this nation.
God is always good!
It is amazing. Absolutely amazing that a 4UM regular poster could say something like this. Makes one wonder if this is the real Robin or an impostor.
God is always good!
He was in a series that allowed this, but the Clinton years were not half as bad as the Bush years.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
Swiss row over black sheep poster BBC News, Geneva A political row has broken out in Switzerland over a campaign poster from the right-wing Swiss People's Party, aimed at deporting foreigners - residents without Swiss citizenship - who commit crimes. The poster, which shows three white sheep kicking a black sheep against a backdrop of the Swiss flag, can be seen all over the country ahead of general elections at the end of October. Swiss People's Party poster The controversial poster bears the slogan "For more security" Immigrant groups in Switzerland, left-wing parties and the United Nations complain that the poster is blatantly racist. The Swiss People's Party, currently the largest in parliament and leading in the opinion polls, is pushing for a new law which would authorise the expulsion of foreign families, should any family member be found guilty of violent crime, drugs offences or benefit fraud. Over 20% of Switzerland's population is foreign. Most have been in the country for many years, and around a third of them were born in Switzerland. Swiss citizenship remains very difficult to come by, and being born in the country does not give the children or even grandchildren of immigrants the right to be Swiss. Crime figures The Swiss People's Party claims that foreigners commit more crimes than the Swiss, and says this justifies deporting them and their families. In fact, crime statistics are not at all clear, partly because not all Swiss regions count crime in the same way. A recent study by the Federal Department for Foreigners found that while, at first glance, foreigners appear to be committing more crime than the Swiss, foreigners, especially young men, are also more likely to be charged - whereas young Swiss may be let off with a caution for the same offence. The study also found that young foreigners living in Switzerland were more likely to be unemployed and living in socially deprived backgrounds, than the Swiss. But despite the complex nature of the problem, the blunt approach has clearly struck a chord with many voters. Matthias Mueller, spokesman for the party, says the campaign has attracted huge support. "We've had an unbelievably positive response," he said. "It shows just how necessary our campaign is." Storm of criticism But now that the poster is visible all over Switzerland, there has been a storm of criticism too. Swiss Jewish groups say the symbolism of the poster, and its use of colour, is frighteningly reminiscent of Nazi propaganda. "I think it's a disgusting way to conduct politics," said Alfred Donath, president of the Swiss Federation of Jewish Communities. "It is entirely contrary to Switzerland's humanitarian tradition, and really not the way we should do things." Meanwhile the United Nations special rapporteur on racial discrimination, Doudou Diene from Senegal, has asked the Swiss government for an official explanation of the campaign. The Swiss People's Party, which wants to pull Switzerland out of the UN Convention against Racism, and abolish the country's own Federal Commission on Racism, is dismissive of UN opinion. "The UN should not be meddling in internal Swiss politics," said Matthias Mueller. "We have got freedom of speech in our country. Obviously [Mr Diene] has not understood our culture of democracy. I would suggest he reads up on it." Video withdrawn The Swiss People's Party is used to criticism of its tactics, but this time there are signs it may have gone too far. Another poster, showing veiled Muslim women accompanied by the question, "Where are we living, Baden or Baghdad?", is now the subject of an investigation to determine whether it violates Switzerland's anti-racism laws. Meanwhile, a campaign video showing what it is claimed are young hooded foreigners committing violent crimes was withdrawn after the Swiss youngsters who actually took part complained they had been told they were taking part in a crime-prevention video. And across the country, hundreds of the black sheep posters have been defaced, many with a single word - "Shame".
The U.S. Constitution is no impediment to our form of government.--PJ O'Rourke
No one forgets Waco, are you suggesting that the Bush years are better than the Clinton years?
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
So that is your problem. :)
God is always good!
Of course he didn't mean it that way, he is trying to get votes, not turn them away. But nevertheless his true colors shined through. He messed up and spoke form his heart and it is certainly not a pretty sight.
God is always good!
As many times as he's lied (I used my words poorly, I never knew Wright was a racist) he's either a real dumbshit or the next slick willie. A man who does not think before he speaks has no business (or brains) being POTUS/ A white man like David Duke could never get away with this "Oops I chose my words poorly" shit.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition "Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." © IndieTx I think non-deluded Christians all know who owns this man's heart.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition "Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." © IndieTx Actually, by being blunt — speaking from his heart, as you put it — he was merely doing what conservatives have recommended we all be allowed to do for years, i.e., not worrying about being "politically correct" and just saying whatever comes to mind in whatever phraseology forms on one's lips.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
Any man that would make such a statement has no qualifications for the office of president, none. He suffers from elitism hoof and mouth disease. Not just in PA. People all across the nation are going to be PO by this very revealing statement from Obama about his views on guns, religion, and "free trade." If he is the Dem's nominee you might as well just hand over the keys of the White House to McCain, becasue he will win in a landslide. Whoever it is, McCain, Hillary, or crazy Obama, the USA is on the verge of extinction.
God is always good!
Surely you jest. It is revealing that NO ONE here is supporting any extension of the reign of that SOB. I and most others supported Paul, because he said he would end the war and that part he could have done WITHOUT trhe will of Congress. Any support for Obama/Clinton is support for more American dead and that is unacceptable.
I am not suggesting an extension either, I am pointing out that there is a difference; the Clinton years were less damaging.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
Carter was less damaging but he was a poor president and the voters turned him out. It is what a president actually does that counts. Bush and Clinton were two of a kind, recall Clinton got us involved in Kosovo, Bush has us mired in ME and all three of the contenders are calling for the same. That is four thousand americans families that are grieving over an unjust war. For that McKooK and Clinton/Obama are all for more war. If you support that slaughter by supporting any of the three, that is your right. Most of us wanted Paul because he said he would end the war. As you can see Americans voted for more war. Shame on them.
Therefore, those who support the constitution are bitter about the constitution being violated? One does not necessarily follow from the other. People go to church to worship God. People who want weapons on hand are realists. People who want the laws follwed in the country regarding immigration and are alarmed at how illegal immigrants destroy the economies through their stealing of the tax benefits intended for citizens are educated. The disparaging remarks regarding these folks being motivated by bitterness and fear are part and parcel of the neocon propaganda to paint U.S. Nationals as fringe malcontents. McWar, Rodham and Obama. Their choice, not ours.
Unbelieveable comment.
You refuse to see the reality.
Asians have an IQ on average at least 10 points higher than that of Americans. You have an unwarranted superiority complex, it seems to me. George Herbert Walker Bush and his family have done far more to improve trade links, national security-related or not, with what used to be called "Red" China.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
Sam... In the fine print there is this admonition... Americans are made up of "MANY" races therefore there is no such thing as an American when testing IQ. China on the other hand is near 90 per cent Chinese, ONE race. Thus the IQ rating is actually misleading.
During the Clinton years, I screamed good and loud. I have no illusions, again, I am contrasting and comparing them with the last 7 years.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
Okay, I'll put it this way. East Asians have been shown to have a 6-point higher IQ on average than Whites.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
I'll buy that.
Interestingly, there is still widespread illiteracy in Asia. It's my opinion, based on this (as well as that govt's tendency to make stuff up), that they do not test everyone. Just as only the brightest Asians are sent here to study and work.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
"We've had an unbelievably positive response," he said. "It shows just how necessary our campaign is." People can't be trusted to decide for themselves. That's what the government is for, to decide what's best for them. They aren't intelligent enough to make the right decision.
I see no comparision. What do you say about Clinton and Bosnia, Bush and Iraq?
Iraq is much worse.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
Well then, why aren't you voting for Rodham? They proved they aren't "half as bad as the Bush years."
Nevermind. There's no rational discussion with cultists.
I have no intention of ever voting for a Clinton. I used the Clinton years as an example that there is a difference between administrations. Not that I like them.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
Did Bosnia cost $3 trillion? Did Bosnia cost us our liberties? How many people died in Bosnia? How many troops? Did our economy suffer because of Bosnia?
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
I agree with this analysis.
How so? If China had the missile technology, they wouldn't have needed Clinton to steal it for them.
Swedish Whites or Southern American Whites?
You think Obama is going to make everything better. By his comments he indicates that people who want their constitutional rights to have guns, worship freely and put America first in trade and immigration are bitter, threatened people. What then can he do for us who support upholding our constitution not becasue we're bitter and threatened, but because it is the law of our country and our right?
Once again, I ask you to research how much trade in all kinds of products the Chinese did with the Bush Crime Family. The Clintons are junior members of that Crime Family, so anything done in the Clinton administration was just a continuation of deals begun by Bush 41. This is certainly true of NAFTA as well. Unless you actually invented the ICBM guidance system designed by Hughes-Loral yourself and are upset about being cut out of the project, I fail to see what sort of grievance you would have against Clinton in particular. The overall policy to let China have or trade for Western technology goes back to Old Man Bush's days and he was the first special envoy to "Red" China back in the early 1970s. He has often professed his love for the PRC.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
The irony here is that the real bitter people in this saga are the Rev. Wright and his flock of perpetual victims.
No, I do not think Obama is going to make everything better. I have made it clear that I think he will do less damage than McCain.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
People go to church to worship God. People who want weapons on hand are realists. People who want the laws follwed in the country regarding immigration and are alarmed at how illegal immigrants destroy the economies through their stealing of the tax benefits intended for citizens are educated. These, of course, are your theories. However, it is known that people are more likely to go to church during hard times. Hard times also makes people more likely to volunteer for a revolution or some armed rebellion. This is also known. If you have a steady, well-paying job and live in a safe neighborhood you may not notice the presence of illegals or, if you do, you might appreciate their willingness to provide you services for less that the natives would charge. You may also support your government 'open trade' initiatives because they bring in cheap goods. As for the constitution, it's always open for interpretation and the worse off you are the less happy you are likely to be with the current constitutional views. Think about it. It kind of makes sense.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
this just in, now Obama is "apologizing" for his arrogance. Odd so many here found nothing wrong with his words. ""If I worded things in a way that made people offended, I deeply regret that," Obama said in an interview with the Winston-Salem (N.C.) Journal."
George W. Bush is the only true Christian President in many a moon, according to my former pastor down at the First Baptist Church, and Dubya has a policy of NEVER apologizing and NEVER admitting error. So I guess this means Obama is not a Christian for sure. Christians never apologize or admit error. They just issue ultimatums and bomb.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
Why would he do that? By all we researched those are his heartfelt positions. Besides, the political damage is done. He just became Willie Horton.
Obama suffers from self aggrandized elitism of the worst kind. I wonder if it is not his white half that is looking down his nose at we white trash hill billies????
The roof has fallen in on Obama, rightfully so. This from Washington times... "MUNCIE, Ind. (AP) – Democrat Barack Obama on Saturday conceded that comments he made about bitter working class voters who "cling to guns or religion" were ill chosen, as he tried to stem a burst of complaints that he is condescending. "I didn't say it as well as I should have," he said."
That was the very word I chose last night when I first heard his statement. This tar baby stays with him, and just might give the nod to the Beast.
It's not Clinton in particular. It's the crime family in general, Clinton included. The reason I'm even mentioning Clinton is in response to Robin who is indicating that Clinton, and by extension Obama, reside somewhere outside the crime family and are therefore less culpable.
You may call them constitutional views, but calling a load of shit a chocolate pie doesn't make it so. Same with trying to whitewash Obama's views.
He outted himself to the wrong crowd.
"Clinton hit all those themes in lengthy comments to manufacturing workers in Indianapolis. "The people of faith I know don't 'cling' to religion because they're bitter. People embrace faith not because they are materially poor, but because they are spiritually rich," she said. "I also disagree with Senator Obama's assertion that people in this country 'cling to guns' and have certain attitudes about immigration or trade simply out of frustration," Clinton added." "People don't need a president who looks down on them," she said. "They need a president who stands up for them." McCain's campaign piled on Obama, releasing a statement that also accused him of elitism.
Why would I want to whitewash Obama's views? I am pleased that there is a politician who, sometimes, expresses his thoughts for others to hear. Compare Obama's relatively unrehearsed words with Clinton's claiming that all those victims of outsourcing, free trade, and competition from legal guest worers and illegal immigrants are all enthusiastic and energized to roll their sleeves and then do... what? Other than voting for Hillary, of course. It seems to me that the expectation for politicians talking is that it is always done at the 'total moron' level and, every time someone dares elevate the discussion to, let's say, 'idiot' level, the total morons feel it's their duty to scream 'APOLOLGIZE!!!'
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
I agree with this analysis. Thanks angle.
I happen to be one of the "small town" people that Obama was referring to. I and all my friends took offense to his words, now mind you we are the subject of his remarks. Does that mean that you not being one of us are telling thousands of us "small towners" that we do not understand? Does that not make you a tad "elitist", a tad "condescending"? Granted we may not be as educated and intelligent as you, but we do seem to be of one mind on this.
I and all my friends took offense to his words, now mind you we are the subject of his remarks. Does that mean that you not being one of us are telling thousands of us "small towners" that we do not understand? Does that not make you a tad "elitist", a tad "condescending"? Granted we may not be as educated and intelligent as you, but we do seem to be of one mind on this. Funny thing. Obama won't renounce his racist church, and he calls them clingy? We know how he feels about guns... and we know what 'else' was going on when he made that speech. Yes, don't cling to those things that make you INdependent and straight with the Lord. Why that's old-time foolery and see where it's got you.. You need BIG GOVERNMENT to help you shed that bitterness. Now we aren't going to make things better, but we are going to help you think things are better. You can perceive food in your bowl, and a penny in your hand and feel rich! Yessah!
His words weren't moronic, they were clear and straight forward. Unfortunately his elitist put down of small towners was offered to the San Francisco white wine and brae cheese crowd, thereby reinforcing nasty stereotypes. His comment damaged his Teflon coating and the Os aren't handling his gun grabbing honesty very well.
Classic. That just about nails it - thanks.
That just about nails it - thanks. Thanks Lod.
Okay, so Obama dared talked about people other than Niggers (which are 'his' people') in ways that some of them don't appreciate, especially after the media and Hillary told them that they should not appreciate it. Like I said, if you appreciate Hillary's Potemkinistic talk about all these unemployed and beat up people and their readiness to roll up sleeves and vote for her, then you should vote for Hillary. I live in PA myself, by the way and, you and I surely know that most PA's little towns look like shit. On my commute to work (in New Jersey) I pass by the ruins of the USX giant buildings - once the largest corporation in the world, now the maker of lighter flints and souvenirs. Oh... one of the ruins is to be used as the backdrop for some casino in Bethlehem - we're making progress. You want to buy a townhouse in Easton? Not a problem, you can have one for $30,000, maybe less if you shop around. You walk trough Allentown and you always feel like you need to watch your back and think about body armor as a wise investment. As for 'happy faces' and people eager to roll up their sleeves when prompted to do so by Hillary... I wish she did a TV spot on that with the MTV dancers in the background while Hillary's face does the happy talking. Remember, Obama claimed that these problems have been around for 20-30 years already and no politician did anything about it. Check Billy Joel's 'Allentown' - great video. Meanwhile, Hillary, when running for senator in New York, she asked the people in upstate NY to roll up their sleeves because, once elected, she would bring 300,000 jobs back. What happened, I heard, was that 90,000 more jobs left upstate New York since her election and all those sleeveless arms, got bitten by mosquitoes in the summer and froze in the winter, while waiting for Hillary's promised jobs.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
I have to keep saying this....It is odd that there is NO ONE here supporting McKooK or any other BS artist on the republican side. Is there a reason?? Yes there is, namely, we are Americans, not camp following partisan whores that have been in hiding here on the 4um. "These same people are going to be orgasmic when Obama decides to ride in the back of the bus as VP and Queen Hillary is the driver." It will be a two for one deal that will send them into ecstasy.
I tried to make a living as a gigolo once, but the women just laughed at me. I didn't make one cent.
"The evil man is the child grown strong" - Thomas Hobbes
He is unelectable for a number of reasons. (This doesn't mean his distaff opponent is. She is even more unelectable.) But he speaks as if he were a political scientist analyzing the various strains of the ethos and electorate. Once you begin to campaign for President in this country, you have to weigh ever utterance BEFORE it comes out of your mouth for how it will play in Peoria. Ironically, even though conservatives decry "political correctness," in recent years, it is often they who jump on any faux pas, real or perceived. Usually, as they are now so firmly allied with and beholden to Israel, it is to declare the speaker "anti-Semitic." My former preachers down at the Baptist church like to see God directing and micromanaging everything. Using their method of interpreting events, I would say God has decided to finish us off posthaste by placing Insane McPain in the White House. Nuclear war, along with the total breakdown of civilization, at least in this country, will follow soon afterwards.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
OK... And your problems on buying cheap houses is going to rectified by Obama how?????? Now I can understand your dislike of Paul. You want a gravy train and someone took took away your all day sucker, what a shame. Paul said openly YOU WOULD HAVE TO WORK, NO MORE GRAVY FROM WASHINGTON AND THAT SCARED THE HELL OUT OF YOU. Now your fear of Paul is understandable, just another free loader looking for a check from Washington to take care of you. With that in mind then we do understand your need to elect Obama and Clinton. Now your gimme hands are apparent.
So you have stopped accepting your Social Security checks? Depending on your age, you may have long since gotten back everything you paid in. In which case, you would be "just another free loader looking for a check from Washington to take care of you."
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
That means you need to try another line of "work".
I don't want anything, my friend. I live well and I need nothing from Obama or Hillary. I never asked any politician for anything other than to leave me alone. But that doesn't change the fact that PA's small towns look like shit and they are full of unhappy people. I suppose it hurts that Obama noticed that and he dared talk about it because sometimes reality hurts. And, of course, I have no intention of buying a house in any town or city. I like acreage because I can shoot my little guns, swim in my (inground :))) ) pool without 5 neighbors staring and barbecue without them being able to smell it. My 'dislike of Ron Paul'? Where is that coming from. I always stated that his running as a GOP was a bad thing but I also stated that I wished he ran as an independent - as everyone seeking votes should. It seems that my advice was good advice. Too bad it wasn't followed.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Sam.. If you take a close look, SS is self funded. Or has that escaped you. If you honestly take a look you will find that the government "OWES" the SS fund billions of dollars. I am surprised at you for that comment. That is money that was "forcibly" withheld from YOU and your employer by law. Please dont tell me you are going to forgo money that was taken from you???
"These same people are going to be orgasmic when Obama decides to ride in the back of the bus as VP and Queen Hillary is the driver." It will be a two for one deal that will send them into ecstasy. The oddest syndrome by far is the emergence of the BushBot gene. You either vote Obama or you are a zionazi, torture loving warmongerer. All of a sudden the incremental steps taken by previous administrations that brought us to this point are erased from memory. There are two ways of looking at things, and it's either their way or you will be attacked and called a McCain Supporter. There is no argument brought forward to vote FOR Obama. Their whole argument is to vote against McCain. You are absolutely correct that what has been unmasked, are partisan whores. And yes they will vote Clinton to get Obama. And when the hammer falls on them all, they will blame the Bush regime for all of it...rather than admit, both 'parties' have orchestrated this takedown of America. Now, they can let that sit on their heart as they lie to their kids and grandkids about how we got here, and pretend they weren't the cowards that helped.
Why on earth were you so afraid of Paul????
Obama himself. It's untrue that Obama himself says that his comments were untrue, he is just saying he could have expressed himself better: ... After the remarks were reported by the liberal blog Huffington Post on Friday, Obama initially defended them, and on Saturday he continued to say the tenor of them was correct, even if the phrasing was off. He argued that Clinton and Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), whose campaign also criticized the remarks, were turning something "everybody knows is true" into political fodder. "Lately, there has been a little, typical sort of political flare-up because I said something that everybody knows is true, which is that there are a whole bunch of folks in small towns in Pennsylvania, in towns right here in Indiana, in my home town in Illinois who are bitter," Obama said in Muncie. "They are angry. They feel like they have been left behind. They feel like nobody is paying attention to what they're going through." "So I said, 'Well, you know, when you're bitter you turn to what you can count on,' " he continued. "So people they vote about guns, or they take comfort from their faith and their family and their community. And they get mad about illegal immigrants who are coming over to this country or they get frustrated about, you know, how things are changing. That's a natural response." 'Bitter' Is a Hard Pill For Obama to Swallow: He Stands by Sentiment as Clinton Pounces. And I notice you didn't answer my question: what, in what Obama said, is untrue?
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Sometimes they wouldn't take me up on it if I offered it for free. It was awful.
You can spot the moralist by his exaggerations - Unknown
Many months ago, I told some people here on 4um that there was a small group of 4um members that were not Americans, but rather just partisan democrats that shared our hatred for Bush and friends, and when the election progressed they would come out of hiding. They have crawled out of their hidey holes and the list I made was correct except I missed one in deep cover.
Turtle... Thank God you are here. Too many of these people take themselves too seriously, they really believe what they say and that is scary. They are totally humorless and I look askance at such people.
They have crawled out of their hidey holes and the list I made was correct except I missed one in deep cover. I spotted the busy bees through the months, but one was queen for sure. Cult programming.
There are plenty of bitter people posting here who keep telling us that nothing can be expected from politics, that government can do nothing for them. Just what Obama was talking about.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
You know, I just figured it out. All that stupid happy talk about Ron Paul hijacking the GOP nomination was not unlike Hillary's happy talk about all these unhappy people in PA rolling up their sleeves and getting energized, just waiting for a word from Hillary to spring into action. If there is one political organization more evil and more anti-American than the Demo party, it's today's GOP party. And Ron Paul was running for THAT party's nomination.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Ari... If you look here you will find an Obama quote wherein he uses the term..."I regret"...I would hate to think he is now lying, that he does not regret it at all. You may indicate he is lying, but I doubt it. I suspect he really regrets that he got caught with hoof in mouth disease which can be fatal.
He regrets his choice of words. Translation: he mistakenly spoke at 'idiot' level instead of speaking at 'total moron' level.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
There are even more on the other side who are still blaming the Clinton regime for everything bad that has happened under Bush. ClintonBush should always be written as one word. The two families are joined at the hip. To think there is any distance between them is akin to believing professional wrestling is legit.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
Why were you so vocal day after day concerning Paul???? Were you afraid he would end the war???? That must be it, you as camp follower must want more war as McKooK, Clinton and Obama are so willing to continue. Obama even wants to send more troops into Afghanistan and maybe even Pakistan, now it is clear, you want more war and Paul was a threat to stop it. War mongering is ok as long as YOU dont have to go????? Now we understand.
Vast you need a bigger shovel. I want to assure you, you will have the glorious opportunity to vote for Clinton/Obama in November. Americans will have no choice, only die hard partisan dems and pubs will have a choice and the rest of us will get more war.
ClintonBush should always be written as one word. The two families are joined at the hip. To think there is any distance between them is akin to believing professional wrestling is legit. I disagree with your math there. If that were true, dems would not have taken congress to end the war. The donations to the RNC are far behind the D's. There was hope that the d's were better and were given a chance to lead, but joined with their other half to do us all in. That you can not see there is one party, disguised as two, is more than too bad, it's a deadly delusion. That you want to play the pub v dem game and think the people will win, then offer up something, ANYTHING that would show it. The argument for dems is that they hate pubs, and it goes no deeper. Obama is as bought and paid for as the others. He is the status quo and worse, he ushers in a new extreme door for more like him. If you happen to be a commie, than perhaps he's your guy.
I can actually mock myself, and I don't mind it if someone gets the best of me, as long as they're funny.
You can spot the moralist by his exaggerations - Unknown
My friend, you are turning completely irrational. Try to remember, this thread is not about your fantasies concerning... poor me. Perhaps you should stay on the topic on this thread an start another one concerning me if you so wish. I do not mind and I might even contribute.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Intelligent people sometimes have a difficult time coming to the conclusion that there is only ONE party. Their lack of objectivity then becomes part of the problem, which is what the government wants. Clinton was better than Reagan, Bush was worse than Clinton, on and on. Sounds like third grade babble to me.
Just what Obama was talking about. Huh? Just about everyone I read expects to continue to be screwed by politics/government, save for the hopeful set who live in a delusionary state. Anyone who thinks one man can defund the MIC is about to experience big time bitter.
Vast... Stop changing horses in midstream, either you supported Paul or you did not. I do not recall one word of support let alone any money. Any "American" would be open to Paul, all you could do was run up and down the sidelines chanting, "Paul cant win", as if you had the only word from God himself. Now you are supporting someone of three that all want more war. Take up your cause by voting for any of the three and WE will have more war. Thanks a lot.
Partisan politics is alive and well, just what the government wants, people unable to think for themselves.
Do the folks in Hazleton have a right to be bitter w/Obama suggested that illegals receive free health care and in state tuition?
Clinton was better than Reagan, Bush was worse than Clinton, on and on. Sounds like third grade babble to me. I think some are indoctrinated from birth, and that programming can never be changed. Some get off on revenge voting. And no matter who wins, we all lose. We are all in one fast sinking boat. One side is bailing the water out, the other side bailing the water in, and the Captain sits on shore laughing at the drowning dingbats.
i would characterize that as facing reality based on experience. i don't want politicians to do a damn thing for me. i simply want them to uphold and govern by the oath they took to the consititution. "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of __________, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
Alright. Let me say it again. I very much agree with Ron Paul's views. I clearly found his run for the GOP ticket stupid, self-defeating and, in fact, damaging to the cause of freedom because his GUARANTEED crushing defeat was going to legitimize the GOP and the 2-party system. I was right that he was going to lose big. And I was right that McCain, now that he defeated everyone else, including RP, is more legitimate that he would have been otherwise. I always suggested that RP ran as an independent and that he NEVER participated in the GOP primaries. He didn't and he did and we are all worse off for it. Mr. Barr may now do a Libertarian run. I hope that he does and I wish he started it several months ago. If he is in the run, it's likely that I will support him. As for the current Demo primary, I will vote for Obama because that's why I registered Demo 3 weeks ago.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
I see only Democratic partisans here. I have no idea what they see in that branch of the national party, but there is some wacky attraction.
You keep saying that, even though not a single poster on this forum, as far as I know, has ever indicated a willingness to vote for Hillary. I myself told you I would not vote for Hillary, when you directly asked me. I also asked you if you would admit you were wrong when Hillary does not get the presidential nomination.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
I am saying there is ONE FAMILY disguised as two, the Bush Crime Family with the Clintons along for the ride ever since Poppy recruited Bubba into the CIA in the late Sixties, disguising him as a hippie war protester on the trip the Company sent him on to the Soviet Union. I think you must have me confused with someone else. I have NO HOPE in politics whatsoever, partisan or not.
“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston
I won't dispute that. They may well be right, although I prefer to entertain some hopes. But you are admitting that Obama was telling the truth about such people, aren't you? Why are people getting so exercised over what he said?
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of __________, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." Excellent statement. While they're busy protecting and defending the constitution, we may be able to live our lives. But Bush's campaign in 2004 promised that Bush was going to protect every single American, individually, against the Mooslums who were about to take over their homesteads. And Bush got elected. I know, 'barely' elected but a sizable number of Americans, allegedly a majority of those who actually voted, voted for Bush.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Well put and I'd actually have respect for the man's words if he'd defend them. This BS about misspeaking has become nauseating. I've seen the video of his comments and they were well thought through, IMO.
That attitude is just what Obama was talking about. You're saying that attitude is right. But you're also, in effect, admitting that Obama was telling the truth. So why are people getting so upset about what he said?
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Gee, go ask the rest of political America. We aren't alone in detecting liberal condescension.
Did you read the article I linked to in #212? He does defend what he said. He says his words were a truth everybody knows. He just says he could have expressed himself better, and is sorry he offended some people.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
I just had Chris Matthews's show on on my TV. I had it playing in the background, and didn't listen to every word, so I may have missed something, but I didn't hear any discussion at all of Obama's remarks.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Gee, I wonder why???? Maybe he thinks like Ari...LOL
You're right, I did. Please accept my apology. I am saying there is ONE FAMILY disguised as two, the Bush Crime Family with the Clintons along for the ride ever since Poppy recruited Bubba into the CIA in the late Sixties, disguising him as a hippie war protester on the trip the Company sent him on to the Soviet Union. Yes, yet here we sit in a food fight about who is worse. I do not understand why perpetuating suicide politics is considered a game either 'side' wins. I have NO HOPE in politics whatsoever, partisan or not. I hope for a miracle, but I doubt one will come at our convenience.
Ah....so why did he trip over his feet to apologize.....twice? Not that it will save him. The Swift Boating is about to begin and frankly it couldn't happen to a more deserving politician. He ain't my brother, he's just another faker.
You know, when a politician begins to talk about truths "everybody knows" he attains a new level of absurdity. *Everybody* knows that.....
I need to get to another rally so I can faint in his glory. .....kerplunk......
Two wings of the same party. If we had different parties one would repeal the laws of the other. It never happens.
You can spot the moralist by his exaggerations - Unknown
What exactly did he say that in your opinion is not true?
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Nothing. It's all true. We who live in small towns are a bitter lot, filled with antipathy toward "immigrants" (I love when these frauds fail to add *ILLEGAL*) and people who don't look like us. For solace, we cling to our guns as a baby would a pacifier. His words are true ari, and they're working so very well for him :)
The boy is full of shit. People don't cling to religion, guns, anti-illegal immigration, and anti-free trade to explain their frustrations. He is a new world order guy and anyone who supports him supports the new world order too. I am sick of seeing his damn name on 4UM.
God is always good!
..."Full-blown political disaster Political insiders differed on whether Obama's comments, which came to light Friday, would become a full-blown political disaster that could prompt party leaders to try to steer the nomination to Clinton even though Obama has more pledged delegates. Clinton supporters were eagerly hoping so. They handed out "I'm not bitter" stickers in North Carolina, and held a conference call of Pennsylvania mayors to denounce the Illinois senator. In Indiana, Clinton did the work herself, telling plant workers in Indianapolis that Obama's comments were "elitist and out of touch." At issue are comments he made privately at a fundraiser in San Francisco last Sunday. He was trying to explain his troubles winning over some working-class voters, saying they have become frustrated with economic conditions: "It's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti- trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." Video Obama: 'Bitter' remarks ill chosen April 12: Barack Obama wishes he had chosen his words more carefully, but stands by his point that voters are angry and frustrated by Washington politics. MSNBC Trying to defuse the issue The comments, posted Friday on The Huffington Post Web site, set off a blast of criticism from Clinton, Republican nominee-in-waiting John McCain and other GOP officials, and drew attention to a potential Obama weakness — the image some have that the Harvard-trained lawyer is arrogant and aloof. His campaign scrambled to defuse possible damage. There has been a small "political flare-up because I said something that everybody knows is true, which is that there are a whole bunch of folks in small towns in Pennsylvania, in towns right here in Indiana, in my hometown in Illinois, who are bitter," Obama said Saturday morning at a town hall-style meeting at Ball State University in Muncie, Ind. "They are angry. They feel like they have been left behind. They feel like nobody is paying attention to what they're going through. "So I said, well you know, when you're bitter you turn to what you can count on. So people, they vote about guns, or they take comfort from their faith and their family and their community. And they get mad about illegal immigrants who are coming over to this country." After acknowledging his previous remarks in California could have been better phrased, he added: "The truth is that these traditions that are passed on from generation to generation, those are important. That's what sustains us. But what is absolutely true is that people don't feel like they are being listened to." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24082427 Didn't he speak of BITTERNESS in his race speech and isn't he using it to pander enough to create a false hope that he can bring reconciliation by just mouthing the words? He is not one of any of us. He promises more of the same, and having done so, has delivered the sheep to the same old shoots. The same old rotting corpses will be marking thier success by the applause of nutbar nation. Generations of potential and promise have been swallowed by this evil. We all should be bitter that the nation is too stupid to reject them all outright.
Obama, hey stupid... We white trash hill billies that you so scorn never went to Hahvud or Yale, cause we wuz poor and white. Geraldine Ferraro had it right, YOU would be po white trash if you were white. Gov. Rendcell of Pa. had it right, voters will NOT elect a black man. Clinton/Obama will win in a landslide. I would love to see Obummer as candidate and Hillary as VP for McKooK, now there is a winner.
We white trash hill billies that you so scorn never went to Hahvud or Yale, cause we wuz poor and white. Geraldine Ferraro had it right, YOU would be po white trash if you were white. Gov. Rendcell of Pa. had it right, voters will NOT elect a black man. Clinton/Obama will win in a landslide. I would love to see Obummer as candidate and Hillary as VP for McKooK, now there is a winner. See now, if he'd been paying attention to his typical white gramma, he might've been able to finesse that speech jusssss right. He is unable to connect with middle class voters (white) because he rejects them at their core. And as for his connection with the black voter, he's black and a Democrat. If he's not the candidate, they'll go to Clinton. I'm not sure how the young will be swayed knowing he really wants them turned over to government service. And without jobs, or anyone promising such a nasty thing will be coming back for the citizen of this nation, well then kids... there's the Army. And that's all there's going to be.
Hey there. Welcome to my new store. I'm the author of HOW TO HEAL THE HURT BY HATING and the forthcoming HOW TO STAY BITTER THROUGH THE HAPPIEST TIMES OF YOUR LIFE (both will be available online and in stores in June, 2006). In terms of merchandise, I've tried to give you people some good options, but if there's a certain phrase that you'd like to see on a different style of shirt, just let me know and I'll stay up real late making it exactly the way you want it. 'Cause that's how much I care. Here's my e-mail address: anita@anitaliberty.com. Here's my website: www.anitaliberty.com. Here's my phone number: Yeah, like I'd give you my phone number. Buy some product and then we'll see. http://www.cafepress.com/staybitter
Clinton/Obama will win in a landslide. I'm not so sure about that anymore. Both of them could be a setup to get McNuts in there.
God is always good!
They are sure doing their darndest to put him there. There are just some oddities that are striking. Bill Clinton, once revered for his political prowess, has time and again, said things that almost appear to be deliberate missteps that hurt Hillary's chances. With Obama, anyone with a shred of common sense would look at his words and comments and ask, could any other politician get away with that these days without being nailed to the wall? In both cases, it makes you go, hmmmmmmmmmm. wHAT is going on here? It's like a long running play that no longer worries about audience attendance, and just shoves any actor onto the stage. It matters not what the people buy or believe. It's just a show.
Yes, they subscribe to that philosophy...as well for the immediate right now, they are insulated from the effects of the war and economic policies so they can continue to "believe."
Shrewd assessment.
In recent years it's become popular to dismiss the labels "liberal" "leftist" etc. It was said such terms were used by the establishment to divide us. I bought into it for a time, but this latest selection process snapped me back to my senses. There is a political left and right, and the left never, ever seems to come over the the positions of the right. It's always the other way around. The Ds who live here are remain true to their wing of the party, regardless of how evil the nominee is. I now 'get it' as do some others.
Thanks angle.
And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations. That's a pretty broad list of things to explain with job loss.
#2. To: christine, *Obama 2008* (#0)
They complain (particularly about their governor and Clinton surrogate Ed Rendell, who doesn't seem as popular as the media make him out to be), but they endure.
#3. To: christine (#0)
(Edited)
Yes 46% 4158
No 54% 4786
Total Votes: 8944
#4. To: robin, christine, Jethro tull (#2)
And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
#5. To: Cynicom (#4)
#6. To: Cynicom (#4)
"You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them," Obama said. "And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
#7. To: robin (#5)
#8. To: Sam Houston (#7)
#9. To: Jethro Tull, robin, christine (#6)
#10. To: Cynicom (#8)
#11. To: Cynicom (#9)
"You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them," Obama said. "And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
#12. To: robin (#11)
they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
#13. To: robin (#11)
Is he talking about this statement? I see nothing in this to get upset about.
#14. To: Jethro Tull (#13)
It's a slap to the gun culture,
#15. To: Cynicom (#12)
#16. To: Jethro Tull (#13)
#17. To: Cynicom (#14)
Its slap to all of us and I hope the local rags carry it in banners tomorrow as even dead head local democrats will curse Obama.
#18. To: robin (#15)
sympathy.
#19. To: Jethro Tull (#17)
(Edited)
#20. To: robin (#16)
they cling to guns or religion
#21. To: Cynicom (#18)
#22. To: Sam Houston (#10)
#23. To: Cynicom (#19)
I hope they beat Obama over the head with it.
#24. To: Jethro Tull (#20)
#25. To: Sam Houston (#10)
I think where he got it wrong was saying that a fascination with guns and religion comes from economic distress. No, it predated it. It's in people's blood in the Bible/Ammo Belt.
#26. To: robin, Jethro tull (#24)
If you are offended, then I suppose it was insensitive
#27. To: robin (#24)
#28. To: Cynicom (#18)
Perhaps I need new glasses or a better translation.
#29. To: Peppa (#28)
We will give you a new religion and security state.
#30. To: Cynicom (#29)
That is the exact message that his NWO masters have programmed him to utter.
#31. To: christine (#0)
And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations. That's a pretty broad list of things to explain with job loss.
#32. To: honway (#31)
#33. To: Peppa, cynicom (#30)
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#34. To: Cynicom (#4)
We hill billy white trash of small town Pa. do own guns, always have, do go to Church always have, and we do dislike slicks from Chicago or any other large city that pass by with their arrogant mouth.
#35. To: robin (#16)
He's saying that it is not surprising that there is a lot of distrust in a small community that has been through job losses, IMO.
#36. To: Cynicom (#8)
They did have enough smarts to get out of Philly and its crime.
Ancient teeth and modern human origins: An expanded comparison of African Plio-Pleistocene and recent world dental samples, Journal of Human Evolution Volume 45, Issue 2, August 2003, Pages 113-144
#37. To: Refinersfire (#34)
#38. To: Tauzero (#36)
#39. To: Refinersfire, robin, christine, Jethro Tullthis from the Washington times (#35)
(Edited)
#40. To: Refinersfire, robin, christine, Jethro Tull (#35)
This from the Washington Times..
#41. To: Cynicom (#40)
#42. To: Jethro Tull (#41)
What blows me away is that despite what we've uncovered, he is still their guy.
#43. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#3)
This is the furore du jour on Lou Dobbs' show and, I suspect on other shows.
#44. To: robin (#42)
We can survive a liberal presidency, but we will not survive another NeoCon administration.
#45. To: robin, Cynicom (#5)
I think Philly has had Blacks for many years.
#46. To: Sam Houston (#10)
I went to school with blacks, played football and other sports with them, etc.
#47. To: Jethro Tull, robin (#41)
#48. To: Cynicom (#12)
I take personal offense to anyone suggesting I "cling" to religion.
#49. To: Cynicom (#26)
He suffers from elitism hoof and mouth disease.
#50. To: iconoclast (#46)
I am convinced that many here have an acquaintance with blacks formed only via the eleven o'clock news.
#51. To: Jethro Tull (#27)
IMO his comment is a mega mistake
mega politically naive mistake.
#52. To: Cynicom (#37)
We is all "cuzins" here.
#53. To: christine (#0)
#54. To: Cynicom (#47)
By Robert D. Novak
Monday, April 7, 2008
Monday, April 7, 2008; Page A17 
#55. To: Jethro Tull (#27)
I'm actually not offended
#56. To: Cynicom (#40)
(Edited)
"It's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations," he said.
#57. To: Jethro Tull (#50)
I grew up in Brooklyn and spent nearly 15 years in the NYPD so I have friend and foes who are black.
#58. To: Jethro Tull (#20)
This will hurt him in PA which is a huge gun state.
#59. To: Jethro Tull (#54)
The justices are pondering whether the 1976 District of Columbia law effectively prohibiting personal gun ownership in the nation's capital is constitutional. But Obama has not stated his position.
#60. To: Arete (#55)
Every word of what Obama said was true.
#61. To: Old Friend (#58)
(Edited)
#62. To: iconoclast (#59)
I'm sure Obama is somewhat conflicted on the issue having spent many years in an area where drive-by shootings abound.
#63. To: Arete (#55)
I'm not offended either. Every word of what Obama said was true.
#64. To: All (#63)
http://www.alphecca.com/mt_alphecca_archives/002989.html
#65. To: Jethro Tull (#62)
Do you mean the years he spent in Hawaii, or those years at Harvard and Yale?
#66. To: christine (#0)
(Edited)
#67. To: Jethro Tull (#63)
#68. To: Jethro Tull (#63)
#69. To: Jethro Tull (#64)
He's not getting my vote.
#70. To: Sam Houston (#67)
They are both saying, in their own way, that the country is screwed, blued and tattooed and NEVER coming back.
#71. To: Cynicom (#68)
#72. To: Jethro Tull (#64)
And remember that he is on record as stating that he would like a ban on all sales and transfers of ANY semi-automatic weapon. Barack Obama is for total gun control.
#73. To: Sam Houston (#67)
Obama never had a chance anyhow, but it IS refreshing to hear politicians at that level speak honestly and truthfully.
#74. To: iconoclast (#70)
#75. To: Jethro Tull (#71)
But I must admit I have noooooooooo idea how anyone could hold, at this moment in time, that one branch of the Party is superior than the other.
#76. To: Jethro Tull (#71)
#77. To: Sam Houston (#74)
I said I might be misreading him.
#78. To: Cynicom (#76)
#79. To: Cynicom (#68)
Yet when Paul was running they were in full cry that he could not win.
#80. To: Cynicom (#76)
The real laugh is going to come when they have to support and vote for Clinton/Obummer.
#81. To: iconoclast (#77)
#82. To: christine (#0)
Don't know how to post vid:
#83. To: IndieTX (#33)
This is a dangerous man.
#84. To: Arete (#55)
Every word of what Obama said was true.
#85. To: aristeides (#80)
Speaking of shame, will you admit you were wrong when Hillary does not get the presidential nomination?
#86. To: All (#82)
Obama: No Surprise That Hard-Pressed Pennsylvanians Turn Bitter www.huffingtonpost.com/ma...rise-that-ha_b_96188.html
#87. To: Jethro Tull (#50)
I grew up in Brooklyn and spent nearly 15 years in the NYPD so I have friend and foes who are black. It's the sheltered closet liberals who fawn over the Big O simply b/c he's black.
#88. To: Jethro Tull, Cynicom (#85)
Before you anointed Obama, you were selecting RPs VP, IIRC.
#89. To: Cynicom (#12)
they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
#90. To: IndieTX (#33)
This is a dangerous man.
#91. To: iconoclast (#77)
Because if he fails it will be for the same reason as Al did, rural and southern prejudice.
#92. To: Jethro Tull (#41)
#93. To: aristeides, Cynicom (#79)
Yet when Paul was running they were in full cry that he could not win.
#94. To: Sam Houston (#91)
#95. To: iconoclast (#45)
I think Philly has had Blacks for many years.
#96. To: Jethro Tull, robin (#85)
#97. To: aristeides (#94)
#98. To: Cynicom (#96)
#99. To: Sam Houston (#97)
#100. To: Jethro Tull (#85)
Obama for president 2008
#101. To: Jethro Tull. The thread (#71)
But I must admit I have noooooooooo idea how anyone could hold, at this moment in time, that one branch of the Party is superior than the other.
#102. To: lodwick (#101)
or Barr
#103. To: aristeides (#98)
But what in what he said is untrue?
#104. To: christine (#0)
"...they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
#105. To: Jethro Tull (#64)
He's not getting my vote.
#106. To: Sam Houston (#97)
I work with a lady who is originally from Mississippi. She was shocked to learn that Virginia is considered a Southern state. She said she consider them to be Yankees.
#107. To: Ferret Mike, orangedog (#100)
Obama restoring constitutional government?
#108. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#3)
I believe that the essence of what he said is true.
#109. To: robin (#5)
(Edited)
I think Philly has had Blacks for many years.
#110. To: Cynicom (#9)
(McCain's) Schmidt also said it shows Obama views the people he’s trying to relate to with “contempt.”
#111. To: angle (#110)
#112. To: Ferret Mike. The thread (#100)
I am not interested in focusing all election cycle on minor details such as what ethnic or racial background any candidate has. There are just too many other things to worry about.
#113. To: angle (#109)
#114. To: robin (#11)
I see nothing in this to get upset about.
#115. To: angle (#105)
Did you or did you not just yesterday comment that you hope he wins?
#116. To: robin (#113)
Cyni was attempting to make it sound like Blacks had just arrived in PA,
#117. To: Cynicom (#116)
#118. To: robin (#113)
Cyni was attempting to make it sound like Blacks had just arrived in PA
#119. To: robin (#117)
#120. To: Cynicom (#111)
you must admit there is ZERO support here for Clinton and McKooK
#121. To: Cynicom (#119)
#122. To: robin (#117)
So why did you insinuate that Blacks are new to PA?
#123. To: christine (#115)
I do too. ;)
#124. To: Jethro Tull (#122)
a complete absence of crime b/c of the gun culture is exceptional strong.
#125. To: iconoclast (#77)
Because if he fails it will be for the same reason as Al did, rural and southern prejudice.
#126. To: Sam Houston (#91)
Southerners were once as virulently opposed to the Republican Party as most of them today are to the Democratic Party.
#127. To: angle (#123)
(Edited)
#128. To: Ferret Mike (#100)
if he is a candidate who could chose to be a good POTUS that restores Constitutional government;
#129. To: robin (#124)
Same with Switzerland, but then they also have a relatively to very well-off homogeneous population
#130. To: christine (#127)
(Edited)
#131. To: robin (#124)
Same with Switzerland, but then they also have a relatively to very well-off homogeneous population.
#132. To: lodwick, Jethro Tull (#131)
#133. To: robin (#130)
#134. To: christine (#133)
#135. To: DeaconBenjamin (#128)
(Edited)
Obama for president 2008
#136. To: robin (#134)
robin... With Obummers comments, it seems that xenophobia, is not really descriptive as a noun. His insults are more fitting as an adjetive, as below.
#137. To: robin (#130)
(Edited)
For example, would an Al Gore presidency have been different? Some say no. I cannot prove it would have been different, but I can point to the Clinton years as less damaging than the Bush years.
#138. To: christine (#133)
(Edited)
all of us on 4 are in agreement on mcCain and hillary. it's obama we're in disagreement on. i'd like a resolution on this and, truly, if i'm wrong and obama proves to be "enough of a difference," i'll be happy to get an "i told you so." ;)
#139. To: RickyJ, robin, christine, Jethro Tull (#137)
The Clinton years were not less damaging than the Bush years in the least.
#140. To: christine (#127)
i think you missed my point.
#141. To: RickyJ (#137)
#142. To: robin (#130)
I can point to the Clinton years as less damaging than the Bush years.
#143. To: RickyJ (#137)
#144. To: aristeides (#84)
(Edited)
When was the last time a politician said that much that is truthful?
#145. To: angle (#108)
That they suupport gun rights, don't support illegal immigration or are anti- NAFTA becasue they're bitter they don't have jobs? WTF is wrong with you?
#146. To: robin (#11)
I see nothing in this to get upset about.
#147. To: angle (#114)
Robin: I see nothing in this to get upset about.
Wow.
#148. To: angle (#142)
#149. To: Jethro Tull (#129)
True, they aren't under active invasion by 3rd worlders
#150. To: Cynicom (#139)
#151. To: robin (#21)
Or maybe a beer? ;P
#152. To: robin (#24)
(Edited)
If you are offended, then I suppose it was insensitive. But I honestly don't think he meant it that way.
#153. To: Cynicom (#96)
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#154. To: RickyJ (#152)
He messed up and spoke form his heart and it is certainly not a pretty sight
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#155. To: RickyJ (#152)
#156. To: Cynicom (#26)
I can assure you that thousands of Pa neanderthals will be POed tomorrow morning.
#157. To: robin (#150)
No one forgets Waco, are you suggesting that the Bush years are better than the Clinton years?
#158. To: Cynicom (#157)
#159. To: robin (#158)
I am not suggesting an extension either, I am pointing out that there is a difference; the Clinton years were less damaging.
#160. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#145)
(Edited)
You don't believe that it is so?
#161. To: Sam Houston (#141)
China didn't need our technology.
#162. To: robin (#148)
#163. To: angle (#161)
#164. To: Sam Houston (#163)
Asians have an IQ on average at least 10 points higher than that of Americans.
#165. To: angle (#162)
#166. To: Cynicom (#164)
#167. To: Sam Houston (#166)
#168. To: Sam Houston (#166)
Okay, I'll put it this way. East Asians have been shown to have a 6-point higher IQ on average than Whites.
#169. To: DeaconBenjamin (#149)
Matthias Mueller, spokesman for the party, says the campaign has attracted huge support.
#170. To: robin (#165)
I am contrasting and comparing them with the last 7 years.
#171. To: angle (#170)
#172. To: robin (#148)
He was in a series that allowed this, but the Clinton years
#173. To: robin (#171)
#174. To: angle (#172)
#175. To: angle (#173)
#176. To: Peppa (#28)
"... making an assertion that guns and religion are false posessions of security. The right leader will help relieve you to cast away such antiquated thinking and fetishes. We will give you a new religion and security state..."
#177. To: Sam Houston (#163)
You have an unwarranted superiority complex, it seems to me.
#178. To: Sam Houston (#166)
6-point higher IQ on average than Whites.
#179. To: robin (#175)
How much did the Clinton years cost in terms of setting it up to have Bush get enough votes to steal the election in the first place? How much executive privilege, how many executive orders, how much governing with impunity, how much so that the Pentagon reported a missing $ 2.3 trillion 9 months after Clinton left office?
#180. To: angle (#177)
#181. To: angle (#179)
What then can he do for us who support upholding our constitution not becasue we're bitter and threatened, but because it is the law of our country and our right?
#182. To: angle (#179)
#183. To: angle (#160)
Therefore, those who support the constitution are bitter about the constitution being violated? One does not necessarily follow from the other.
#184. To: robin, Jethro Tull, angle (#182)
#185. To: Cynicom (#184)
#186. To: Cynicom (#184)
this just in, now Obama is "apologizing" for his arrogance.
#187. To: Jethro Tull (#186)
Besides, the political damage is done. He just became Willie Horton.
#188. To: Jethro Tull, robin, angle, christine (#186)
#189. To: Cynicom (#188)
condescending
#190. To: Sam Houston (#180)
I fail to see what sort of grievance you would have against Clinton in particular.
#191. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#183)
As for the constitution, it's always open for interpretation and the worse off you are the less happy you are likely to be with the current constitutional views.
#192. To: Jethro Tull (#186)
the political damage is done.
#193. To: angle (#192)
This from AP....
#194. To: angle (#191)
You may call them constitutional views, but calling a load of shit a chocolate pie doesn't make it so. Same with trying to whitewash Obama's views.
#195. To: angle (#176)
"... making an assertion that guns and religion are false posessions of security. The right leader will help relieve you to cast away such antiquated thinking and fetishes. We will give you a new religion and security state..."
#196. To: a vast rightwing conspirator, Peppa, Jethro Tull, robin (#194)
Why would I want to whitewash Obama's views? I am pleased that there is a politician who, sometimes, expresses his thoughts for others to hear.
#197. To: Cynicom (#196)
happen to be one of the "small town" people that Obama was referring to.
#198. To: Cynicom (#196)
#199. To: Peppa (#197)
Yes, don't cling to those things that make you INdependent and straight with the Lord. Why that's old-time foolery and see where it's got you.. You need BIG GOVERNMENT to help you shed that bitterness. Now we aren't going to make things better, but we are going to help you think things are better. You can perceive food in your bowl, and a penny in your hand and feel rich! Yessah!
#200. To: lodwick (#199)
Classic.
#201. To: Cynicom (#196)
(Edited)
#202. To: Peppa (#197)
but we are going to help you think things are better.
#203. To: Cynicom (#202)
camp following partisan whores
#204. To: Jethro Tull (#198)
#205. To: a vast rightwing conspirator, Peppa (#201)
I live in PA myself,
#206. To: Cynicom (#205)
#207. To: YertleTurtle (#203)
#208. To: Cynicom (#205)
(Edited)
#209. To: Sam Houston (#206)
So you have stopped accepting your Social Security checks?
#210. To: Cynicom (#202)
I have to keep saying this....It is odd that there is NO ONE here supporting McKooK or any other BS artist on the republican side. Is there a reason?? Yes there is, namely, we are Americans, not camp following partisan whores that have been in hiding here on the 4um.
#211. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#208)
#212. To: Cynicom (#103)
First lets see who does NOT agree with you.
"I didn't say it as well as I could have," Obama (D-Ill.) told a crowd in Muncie. Later, in an interview with a North Carolina newspaper, he said, "Obviously, if I worded things in a way that made people offended, I deeply regret that."
#213. To: Cynicom (#207)
That means you need to try another line of "work".
#214. To: Peppa (#210)
And when the hammer falls on them all, they will blame the Bush regime for all of it...rather than admit, both 'parties' have orchestrated this takedown of America.
#215. To: YertleTurtle (#213)
#216. To: Cynicom (#214)
Many months ago, I told some people here on 4um that there was a small group of 4um members that were not Americans, but rather just partisan democrats that shared our hatred for Bush and friends, and when the election progressed they would come out of hiding.
#217. To: Jethro Tull (#181)
The irony here is that the real bitter people in this saga are the Rev. Wright and his flock of perpetual victims.
#218. To: Cynicom (#211)
Why on earth were you so afraid of Paul????
#219. To: aristeides (#212)
It's untrue that Obama himself says that his comments were untrue, he is just saying he could have expressed himself better:
#220. To: Cynicom (#219)
(Edited)
I suspect he really regrets that he got caught with hoof in mouth disease which can be fatal.
#221. To: Peppa (#210)
And when the hammer falls on them all, they will blame the Bush regime for all of it...rather than admit, both 'parties' have orchestrated this takedown of America.
#222. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#218)
#223. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#220)
#224. To: Sam Houston (#221)
There are even more on the other side who are still blaming the Clinton regime for everything bad that has happened under Bush.
#225. To: Cynicom (#215)
Too many of these people take themselves too seriously, they really believe what they say and that is scary. They are totally humorless and I look askance at such people.
#226. To: Cynicom (#222)
#227. To: Peppa (#224)
#228. To: aristeides (#217)
There are plenty of bitter people posting here who keep telling us that nothing can be expected from politics, that government can do nothing for them.
#229. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#226)
Try to remember, this thread is not about your fantasies concerning... poor me.
#230. To: Jethro Tull (#228)
Huh? Just about everyone I read expects to continue to be screwed by politics/government, save for the hopeful set who live in a delusionary state.
#231. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#218)
#232. To: Cynicom (#227)
Intelligent people sometimes have a difficult time coming to the conclusion that there is only ONE party. Their lack of objectivity then becomes part of the problem, which is what the government wants.
#233. To: aristeides (#217)
There are plenty of bitter people posting here who keep telling us that nothing can be expected from politics, that government can do nothing for them.
#234. To: Cynicom (#229)
(Edited)
#235. To: Cynicom (#230)
Partisan politics is alive and well
#236. To: Cynicom (#202)
(Edited)
"These same people are going to be orgasmic when Obama decides to ride in the back of the bus as VP and Queen Hillary is the driver." It will be a two for one deal that will send them into ecstasy.
#237. To: Peppa (#224)
That you can not see there is one party, disguised as two, is more than too bad, it's a deadly delusion.
#238. To: christine (#233)
i would characterize that as facing reality based on experience
#239. To: christine (#233)
i would characterize that as facing reality based on experience. i don't want politicians to do a damn thing for me. i simply want them to uphold and govern by the oath they took to the consititution.
#240. To: Sam Houston (#204)
#241. To: Jethro Tull (#228)
Huh? Just about everyone I read expects to continue to be screwed by politics/government, save for the hopeful set who live in a delusionary state. Anyone who thinks one man can defund the MIC is about to experience big time bitter.
#242. To: aristeides (#241)
So why are people getting so upset about what he said?
#243. To: Jethro Tull (#240)
Well put and I'd actually have respect for the man's words if he'd defend them.
#244. To: Jethro Tull (#242)
Gee, go ask the rest of political America.
#245. To: aristeides (#244)
I just had Chris Matthews's show on on my TV. I had it playing in the background, and didn't listen to every word, so I may have missed something, but I didn't hear any discussion at all of Obama's remarks
#246. To: Sam Houston (#237)
I think you must have me confused with someone else.
#247. To: aristeides (#244)
I just had Chris Matthews's show on on my TV. I had it playing in the background, and didn't listen to every word, so I may have missed something, but I didn't hear any discussion at all of Obama's remarks.
#248. To: aristeides (#243)
He says his words were a truth everybody knows.
#249. To: Jethro Tull (#247)
Not that it will save him. The Swift Boating is about to begin and frankly it couldn't happen to a more deserving politician. He ain't my brother, he's just another faker.
#250. To: Cynicom (#227)
only ONE party
#251. To: Jethro Tull (#248)
You know, when a politician begins to talk about truths "everybody knows" he attains a new level of absurdity. *Everybody* knows that.....
#252. To: aristeides (#251)
What exactly did he say that in your opinion is not true?
#253. To: aristeides (#243)
He says his words were a truth everybody knows.
#254. To: Jethro Tull (#252)
His words are true ari, and they're working so very well for him :)
#255. To: Peppa (#254)
"They are angry. They feel like they have been left behind. They feel like nobody is paying attention to what they're going through.
#256. To: Cynicom (#255)
Obama, hey stupid...
#257. To: All (#256)
#258. To: Cynicom (#255)
.
#259. To: RickyJ (#258)
(Edited)
I'm not so sure about that anymore. Both of them could be a setup to get McNuts in there.
#260. To: Jethro Tull (#198)
his elitist put down of small towners was offered to the San Francisco white wine and brae cheese crowd
#261. To: Peppa (#259)
It matters not what the people buy or believe. It's just a show.
#262. To: angle (#260)
Yes, they subscribe to that philosophy...
#263. To: angle (#261)
It matters not what the people buy or believe. It's just a show. Shrewd assessment.
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