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Title: NO EVIDENCE OF ABUSE AT POLYGAMIST CHURCH
Source:
MY WAY NEWS
URL Source: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080417/D903RV800.html
Published: Apr 17, 2008
Author: Michelle Roberts
Post Date: 2008-04-17 20:18:09 by noone222
Keywords: None
Views: 539
Comments: 35
Polygamist sect hearing in Texas descends into farce Apr 17, 5:19 PM (ET) By MICHELLE ROBERTS (AP) Members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints make their way down a... SAN ANGELO, Texas (AP) - A court hearing to decide the fate of the 416 children swept up in a raid on a West Texas polygamist sect descended into farce Thursday, with hundreds of lawyers in two packed buildings shouting objections and the judge struggling to maintain order. The case - clearly one of the biggest, most convoluted child-custody hearings in U.S. history - presented an extraordinary tableau: big-city lawyers in suits and mothers in 19th-century, pioneer-style dresses, all packed into a courtroom and a nearby auditorium connected by video. At issue was an attempt by the state of Texas to strip the parents of custody and place the children in foster homes because of evidence they were being physically and sexually abused by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a renegade Mormon splinter group suspected of forcing underage girls into marriage with older men. As many feared, the proceedings turned into something of a circus - and a painfully slow one. (AP) Dan, 24, a member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints walks down a... Full Image By midafternoon only two witnesses had testified, and both only to lay the foundation for documents to be admitted. One witness, a state trooper, was cross-examined by dozens of attorneys, each of them asking the same question of a behalf of a child or parent. As the afternoon dragged on, no decisions had been made on any of the youngsters' fate. Texas District Judge Barbara Walther struggled to maintain order as she faced 100 lawyers in her 80-year-old Tom Green County courtroom and several hundred more participating over a grainy video feed from an ornate City Hall auditorium two blocks away. The hearing disintegrated quickly into a barrage of shouted objections and attempts to file motions, with lawyers for the children objecting to objections made by the parents' attorneys. When the judge sustained an objection to the prolonged questioning the state trooper, the lawyers cheered. Upon another objection about the proper admission of medical records of the children, the judge threw up her hands. "I assume most of you want to make the same objection. Can I have a universal, 'Yes, Judge'?" she said. In both buildings, the hundreds of lawyers stood and responded in unison: "Yes, Judge." But she added to the chaos as well. Walther refused to put medical records and other evidence in electronic form, which could be e-mailed among the lawyers, because it contained personal information. A courier had to run from the courthouse to the auditorium delivering one document at a time. "We're going to handle this the best we can, one client at a time," Walther said. Little evidence had been admitted by midafternoon. The first attempt to admit evidence resulted in an hourlong recess while all the lawyers examined it. The rest of the morning was spent in arguments about whether to admit the medical records of three girls, two 17-year-olds and one 18-year-old. Department of Public Safety Sgt. Danny Crawford testified to DPS's discovery of a church bishop's records taken from a safe at the ranch that listed about 38 families, some of them polygamous and some that included wives 16 or 17 years old. But under repeated cross-examination, Crawford acknowledged the records contained no evidence of sexual abuse. State officials asked the judge for permission to conduct genetic testing on the children and adults because of difficulty sorting out the sect's tangled family relationships and matching youngsters with their parents. The judge did not immediately rule. Amid the shouting and chaos among the lawyers, who came from around Texas to represent the children and parents free of charge, dozens of mothers sat timidly in their long cotton dresses, long underwear even in the spring heat, and braided upswept hair. In the satellite courtroom, about 175 people strained to see and hear a large projector set up on the auditorium's stage. But the feed was blurry and barely audible. (AP) Map locates a selection of U.S. polygamist compounds, including Eldorado, Texas; 2c x 3 1/2 inches;... Full Image "I'm not in a position to advocate for anything," complained Susan Hays, the appointed attorney for a 2-year-old sect member. Outside, where TV satellite trucks lined the street in front of the courthouse's columned facade, a man who said he was an FLDS father waved a photo of himself surrounded by his four children, ranging from a baby to a child of about 9. "Look, look, look," the father said. "These children are all smiling, we're happy." Walther signed an emergency order nearly two weeks ago giving the state custody of the children after a 16-year-old girl called an abuse hot line claiming her husband, a 50-year-old member of the sect, beat and raped her. The girl has yet to be identified. Authorities raided their compound April 3 in the nearby town of Eldorado - a 1,700-acre ranch with a blindingly white limestone temple and log cabin-style houses - and began collecting documents and disk drives that might provide evidence of underage girls being married to adults. The children, who are being kept in a domed coliseum in San Angelo, range in age from 6 months to 17 years in age. Roughly 100 of them are under 4. FLDS members deny children were abused and say the state is persecuting them for their faith. The judge must weigh the allegations of abuse and also decide whether it is in the children's best interest to be placed into mainstream society after they have been told all their lives that the outside world is hostile and immoral. If the judge gives the state permanent custody of the children, the Texas child services agency will face the enormous task of finding suitable homes. It will also have to decipher brother-sister relationships so that it can try to preserve them. Over the past two weeks, the agency has relied on volunteers to help feed the children, do their laundry and provide crafts and games for them. Gov. Rick Perry would not say how much the case is costing the state, but said: "Does the state of Texas have the resources? Absolutely we do." The sect came to West Texas in 2003, relocating some members from the church's traditional home along the Utah-Arizona state line. Its prophet and spiritual leader, Warren Jeffs, is in prison for forcing an underage girl into marriage in Utah.
Poster Comment: This entire episode is bunko .... a militia should be formed to restore the children to their parents.
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#1. To: noone222 (#0)
50-year-old men "marrying" and impregnating 14- and 15-year-old girls is abuse.
I can kill you with my brain or bash you with my shell -- you choose. -- YertleTurtle
Bum swat team, should have burned 'em out like Waco. Teach 'em to be different.
I don't get it. I thought you lived in the Ozarks?
"Satan / Cheney in "08" This entire episode is bunko sounds like it is
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
There isn't any PROOF that has taken place. Only innuendo. They haven't even got an identifiable witness ... nothing ... zippo ... nada ... zilch ... of course you ruskies probably don't see the value in real evidence and a real investigation ... just kick down the fucking door and manufacture evidence ... They have suggested testing the DNA of 416 kids. [Based on what charge ?] Total police state bullshit at this point.
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)
Touché.
Sure we do AssHat. Just sell off some more of our highways, or impose tolls on our roads. You POS traitor.
I'll bet that Judge is wishing she'd had more PROOF before she sent the GESTAPO into that place ... and I'll bet no one knows that the call was made by a 16 year old or a 90 year old ... this case is bogus, a hoax. None of the "evidence" they collect will be valid unless the alleged "CALLER" is identified and able to testify.
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)
Just warn me before posting any more "man boobies" again. Egads!.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" Touché. Yeah he lives there with his wife and sister ... they're the same person.
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)
You liquored up again ... hehehehehehe !!!
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)
He does have an ingenious hot tub water heater, that he can use as a BBQ. "Satan / Cheney in "08" And his tree house...... "Satan / Cheney in "08" I stayed at his guest cottage and it was very nice. "Satan / Cheney in "08" You have a point, I wouldn't have wanted to run across that picture while I was eating.
Here is his cousin Clem and his famous air guitar solo.
This is another "manufactured" distraction - a prelude to something big about to happen. It is also a "preview" of what is soon to come nationwide. The ball has been rolling for several months. Eyes Wide Shut?
A couple of pops brings out my true feelings. Cheers, .222.
Yertle Turtle: I haven't seen any evidence that 50-year-old men were "marrying" and impregnating 14-and-15-year-old girls; have you? In fact, the still-anonymous 16-year-old gal who made the complaint cannot be found, and the man she named as being responsible for her babies can prove that he hasn't been in Texas since 1977. Maybe you feel that an anonymous voice on a phone is 'probable cause' to issue search warrants and make mass arrests, but anyone familiar with the US Constitution knows that official conduct such as this is unlawful and in direct violation of our Fourth Amendment Rights under the Constitution. Only in despotic nations is an anonymous phone call considered sufficient to warrant a search and mass arrest of people who were not even named by the caller. Kid, you, like me, may not like the Mormon religion, but those US citizens still enjoy the Rights that you and I have to protect us from a despotic government. In fact, if Texas is allowed to get away with this gross miscarriage of justice, then no one in this nation is safe from either the state or federal governments. So tell me, slick, would an anonymous telephone complaint against you be sufficient to warrant your state government breaking down your door and stealing your children; humm? RO
Tom007: Hate to burst your bubble, but Ozark is singular, not plural. After all, there is only one Ozark Plateau and forest, not two, three or more. Consequently, the correct term is "Ozark." I know because I live in Northwest Arkansas, at the southern edge of the Ozark Plateau. Oh, by the way, even in the Ozark, 50 year-old men don't marry and impregnate 14-and-15-year-old girls. RO
They have suggested testing the DNA of 416 kids. [Based on what charge ?] Total police state bullshit at this point. Precisely correct, as far as I can see. They have an anonymous call from an alleged witness, of unknown age, unknown location, whom they cannot identify. It may be a 33 year old Colorado woman. The prime suspect for being the alleged husband evildoer appears to have an alibi that he was not in Texas. Legally, the seized records may not provide any proof of polygamy. They might just need evidence of actual marriage ceremonies to prove there is not a giant shack up going on. The families do not appear cooperative in providing evidence against themselves. The state seems to be alleging some "spiritual union." Perhaps Bill had a "spiritual union" with Monica and went "oh god, oh god." The DNA of 416 kids would not prove much. They would also need samples from the alleged parents to compare it to. Then it would only prove who is mommy and daddy. If the girl is underage, it could prove statutory rape. Normally they need evidence of a crime first before they embark on a fishing expedition requiring DNA samples. While not necessarily legally admissible or constituting proof, it appears they claim to have found some evidence that perhaps a half-dozen girls were married (or something like that) underage. I do not believe they have brought forth any evidence yet of forced marriage. It is not clear what specific people are being charged with whatever. There were no mass arrests or arrest warrants. Only two people were arrested -- for interfering with the investigation during the raid. The 416 children were taken into custody by Child Protective Services. "They will not be able to bring criminal charges. They can even be sued for that search." -- Jonathan Turley (see below for more from Turley) ----- abcnews.go.com/GMA/Story?id=4640067&page=2 Authorities are still looking for the 16-year-old girl who made the cry for help from the compound, and some experts say the legal basis for the Texas officials' raid may not hold up in court if they cannot locate the accuser. "That 16-year-old is the linchpin for probable cause. She is the reason they said they had cause to go in and do this search. If that is not present, if they can't establish probable cause, then everything they gathered in the search will likely be suppressed," said legal analyst Jonathan Turley today on "Good Morning America Weekend." He added, "They will not be able to bring criminal charges. They can even be sued for that search." A custody hearing next week about the 416 children who were seized from the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ranch will question whether the state can legally justify its search of the religious compound. "You can't hold over 400 children and keep them from their parents unless you can establish that those parents are directly linked to a criminal allegation or abuse," said Turley, a professor of law at George Washington University who has written about polygamy. To prosecute the other families and children, authorities may have to assume they were all accused. Turley said making such an assumption would be "a serious problem as they go forward. The court will give the state a fair degree of deference in protecting children initially, but that deference quickly evaporates with time. ... You can't say they're all vicariously guilty because they belong to a certain religion." abcnews.go.com/GMA/Story?id=4640067&page=3 The defense will likely argue that authorities have equated polygamy with child abuse and used that as the basis for the raid. "They can't say they're going to raid every polygamous compound. That's like going into every Catholic Church and talking to every altar boy because some priest committed a crime. There's nothing in polygamy that requires a child abuse or child rape." ===== The Affidavit www.star-telegram.com/news/photos/gallery/568667.html ===== www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,348148,00.html The girl's husband was not identified in the court documents released Tuesday. But authorities have issued an arrest warrant for church member Dale Barlow, a 50-year-old believed to be in Arizona. ===== www.star-telegram.com/state_news/story/587702.html Posted on Thu, Apr. 17, 2008 A Q&A on the raid of the polygamist sect's compound By JAY ROOT Star-Telegram Staff Writer Acting on information about alleged physical and sexual abuse, state authorities conducted a raid of the YFZ Ranch, home to members of a secretive polygamist sect known as the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The state took temporary custody of 416 children. Here are questions and answers about the complicated case as it moves into the judicial system. Who raided the FLDS compound near Eldorado and why? Child Protective Services reports receiving a frantic phone call March 29 from a 16-year-old girl claiming she was beaten and raped by her 50-year-old husband. On April 3, law enforcement officials including the Texas Rangers initiated a weeklong raid and took 416 children into custody. Some 139 adults are voluntarily staying with the children. Officials say the raid was necessary to protect the children from sexual and physical abuse. Have any FLDS members been charged with crimes? Yes. Two male members were charged with interfering with the investigation stemming from confrontations during the raid. Though the state has filed affidavits saying it has evidence that underage girls were subjected to systematic sexual exploitation and abuse at the YFZ (Yearning For Zion) Ranch, authorities have not arrested or charged anyone with sex crimes or polygamy stemming from the raid. Authorities say any evidence of crimes committed at the compound will be turned over to prosecutors. Where is the 16-year-old girl who made the allegations of abuse? Her whereabouts is unknown. Authorities have not identified the girl, but they have reported problems in establishing parentage of many FLDS children, saying adult sect members have given inaccurate information. State authorities named Dale Barlow of Colorado City, Ariz., as the man suspected of raping the 16-year-old girl. Why hasn't he been arrested? Barlow has denied the allegations and says he doesn't know the girl. Barlow is a registered sex offender who is on probation after pleading no contest to conspiracy to commit sexual conduct with a minor in Arizona. The Texas Rangers met with Barlow last weekend but have not acted on an arrest warrant against him. "We are still trying to sort out if it's the correct person or not," said Tela Mange, a spokeswoman for the Texas Department of Public Safety. "Things are not matching up as we expected they would." What happens next? A marathon court hearing is scheduled for today in San Angelo, where state District Judge Barbara Walther will preside over the largest child custody hearing in Texas history. She will consider CPS' request for permanent custody of all 416 children. Under Texas law, each child is entitled to legal counsel, and officials say hundreds of lawyers have volunteered to represent the children. Staff writer John Moritz contributed to this report, which includes material from The Associated Press. Jay Root reports from the Star-Telegram's Austin bureau. =====
This was a huge fishing expedition. The bait was an anonymous tip flung before the bottom feeding CPS sharks, that attacked this group with teeth that looked a lot like tanks and machine guns. The State of Texas is dumber than a rock having forgotten the lessons of WACO. Texans sit idly by while these goons create a circus atmosphere and children are traumatized.
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)
Her whereabouts is unknown. Authorities have not identified the girl This is proof they had no legal right to invade and separate all these children from their parents - certainly not their mothers.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
Child Abuse at Waco by David B. Kopel "For the sake of the children," has emerged as one of the most dangerous phrases in American politics. President Clinton has invoked children's alleged dependence on the federal government not just for his putatively child-oriented programs (such as the misnamed Department of Education), but also for issues that have only a tenuous connection to children, such as his prohibition on semiautomatic firearms, or his terrorism proposals for greater wiretapping and for trials with secret evidence. The most ironic, however, of all the administration's claims about its love for children is its persistent assertion that the BATF and FBI attacks on the home of the Branch Davidian children in Waco, Texas, were a noble effort to protect the children from child abuse. And, it turns out, there really was a massive amount of child abuse at Waco, although not exactly as described by the government. http://www.davekopel.com/waco/arts/wachroni.htm The McMartin Preschool Abuse Trial: A Commentary by Doug Linder (2003) The McMartin Preschool Abuse Trial, the longest and most expensive criminal trial in American history, should serve as a cautionary tale. When it was all over, the government had spent seven years and $15 million dollars investigating and prosecuting a case that led to no convictions. More seriously, the McMartin case left in its wake hundreds of emotionally damaged children, as well as ruined careers for members of the McMartin staff. No one paid a bigger price than Ray Buckey, one of the principal defendants in the case, who spent five years in jail awaiting trial for a crime (most people recognize today) he never committed. McMartin juror Brenda Williams said that the trial experience taught her to be more cautious: "I now realize how easily something can be said and misinterpreted and blown out of proportion." Another juror, Mark Bassett, singled out "experts" for blame: "I thought some of the expert testimony about the children told you more about the expert than the child. I mean, if the expert says children are always 100% believable and then you have a child who is not believable, either the expert is extremely biased or they've never seen anything like that child before."
So there are no Ozark mountains in NW Arkansas? Hummmm. Sure seemed like there was when I lived there. O well, my bubble's burst. "even in the Ozark, 50 year-old men don't marry and impregnate 14-and-15-year-old girls." That is a bold statement.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" Waco was completely avoidable, Koresh walked into town every week. If they wanted him they could have grabbed the leader easily. I remember the McMartin case, it sounded just awful. It seems it was just a witch hunt. Other cases followed, I remember the horrific story of a family in Bakersfield. "It's for the children" is behind Real ID and a host of nonsense designed to corral and reduce us to chattel. No one wants children to be abused, nor do we want them lost in a system (as 5,000 have been in Florida). Or sexually abused by the very system that was to protect them; as has been reported in the juvenile system of TX, under Alberto Gonzales.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
Roger.
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)
Was that anonymous bait... or was that a cooperative person giving some goon the appearance of justification? Are they really unable to determine if a call is local or long distance or from out of state? They were investigating this group for years and couldn't get anything. They did not have grounds for a search warrant, so they got creative. Perhaps the purpose of the invasion was just to search the place and seize documents in the belief they would find evidence, and go from there. If the call were manufactured, it may be the people who made it happen did not plan on CPS taking 416 kids into custody. Dunno... but something in this story just ain't right.
It looks more like a set up all the time. You're right, the cops have every tracking device known to man at their disposal so surely they can caller I.D. If it was a 911 call they for sure have it traced. There has been some speculation that the land is in the path of the Trans Texas Corridor.
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)
It was allegedly from a cell phone. The police at least should have been able to find out the cell tower of origin. These days they can quickly determine the place of origin of a cell phone call made to 911 and respond to it.
While on the compound the authorities saw many pregnant girls that appear too young. If not legally married by a state ceremony any prego girl under 17 is a case of statutory rape. Only the first wife has a state marriage and the rights that come with it, to stay semi-legal. This to make sure extra wives and all those babies qualify for state and federal bennies. You feel its right to do this? "Earlier today, testimony in the giant custody case revealed that more than 20 girls taken from a polygamist Texas ranch became pregnant or gave birth before they were 16 or 17." abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Story?id=4680903&page=2 this sect has existed for a long time. their leader is already sitting in jail for a sexual pairing of a 14yr girl and a 19yr boy.They have statements of corraboration from members who have left the sect and the "Lost Boys" they throw away. (google it) The children's stories and names change, most cannot identify two parents or give their full names. How else do you clarify who the parents are before returning the children when most claim more than 1 mother? DNA testing is absolutely required. YT is right what's been done to these little girls is absolutely disgusting.
Her whereabouts is unknown. Authorities have not identified the girl This is the post I was responding to (as you can see). The original complaint is from a girl they have not identified. Nor have they proven anything about that phone call. That was my point. No one wants underage girls to be forced into marriage, or be psychologically programmed to think it's OK. But these allegations have not been proven. They have not even identified the girl who made a phone call. There was no proof before they invaded and kidnapped 400+ children. That's an outrage. And even though now they say these children are all healthy and well cared for they will not return them to their parents. There are some underage girls who are pregnant. I understand concerns about them. I am concerned about all the underage girls in our society who are pregnant, not just the ones in this group. But most underage pregnant girls are not being held by the govt, just these. If there is a need for outside counseling, so be it. But invading and kidnapping over 400 children and keeping them from their mothers is totally unwarranted. The authorities are using this in the media as an excuse to do this to another group. They needed a precedence that would be acceptable to the American people. And the media has been playing it that way for them. The authorities hate it that there are children growing up who are not being fed the programming they want them to have. The advertisers are not able to reach these girls, they wear old-fashioned clothing and are not behaving like all the "normal" American teenagers. They are not receiving the programming the govt wants them to have. It is debatable which is worse, IMO.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
They'll have to "find" some evidence, or these agencies will face heavy liability.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
In California CPS is absolutely immune from any kind of civil action, even if it is shown that they acted maliciously. The statute has this language in it. The people who initiate a complaint have the same immunity - here this is probably the sheriffs department. I don't know what the situation is in Texas, but it could be the same.
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Can't have that (the heavy liability). Yes, they'll "find" something. The govt would look foolish and might then not be able to repeat this illegality against another isolated, peculiar group. Who is next? My daughter had classmates in high-school (even one in junior high-school) who became pregnant. It is not unusual in the Latino culture for teenage girls to become pregnant. Yet not one had their home invaded. Not one was kidnapped. Not one was kept from her parents. And I think one or two were the result of unreported date-rape. In fact, there were special classes at the high school for these young mothers. Also a separate high-school in a neighboring school district. This isn't about pregnant teenage girls.
'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
#2. To: YertleTurtle (#1)
#3. To: YertleTurtle (#1)
50-year-old men "marrying" and impregnating 14- and 15-year-old girls is abuse.
#4. To: noone222 (#0)
Walther signed an emergency order nearly two weeks ago giving the state custody of the children after a 16-year-old girl called an abuse hot line claiming her husband, a 50-year-old member of the sect, beat and raped her. The girl has yet to be identified.
#5. To: YertleTurtle (#1)
50-year-old men "marrying" and impregnating 14- and 15-year-old girls is abuse.
#6. To: tom007 (#3)
"I thought you lived in the Ozarks?"
Obama for president 2008
#7. To: noone222 (#0)
Gov. Rick Perry would not say how much the case is costing the state, but said: "Does the state of Texas have the resources? Absolutely we do."
#8. To: robin (#4)
Walther signed an emergency order nearly two weeks ago giving the state custody of the children after a 16-year-old girl called an abuse hot line claiming her husband, a 50-year-old member of the sect, beat and raped her. The girl has yet to be identified.
#9. To: Ferret Mike (#6)
#10. To: Ferret Mike (#6)
"I thought you lived in the Ozarks?"
#11. To: lodwick (#7)
#12. To: noone222 (#10)
#13. To: All (#9)
#14. To: All (#9)
#15. To: tom007 (#9)
"Just warn me before posting any more "man boobies" again. Egads!."
Obama for president 2008
#16. To: tom007 (#14)
--
Obama for president 2008
#17. To: tom007 and the astute ones above. (#14)
#18. To: noone222 (#11)
#19. To: YertleTurtle (#1)
"50-year-old men "marrying" and impregnating 14- and 15-year-old girls is abuse."
#20. To: tom007 (#3)
"I thought you lived in the Ozarks?"
#21. To: noone222, YertleTurtle, robin (#5)
There isn't any PROOF that has taken place. Only innuendo. They haven't even got an identifiable witness ... nothing ... zippo ... nada ... zilch ... of course you ruskies probably don't see the value in real evidence and a real investigation ... just kick down the fucking door and manufacture evidence ...
#22. To: nolu_chan (#21)
#23. To: nolu_chan (#21)
Where is the 16-year-old girl who made the allegations of abuse?
#24. To: robin (#23)
Many years ago the term "Child Abuse" replaced a thing called disapline.
#25. To: ReallyOrnery (#20)
Hate to burst your bubble, but Ozark is singular, not plural. After all, there is only one Ozark Plateau and forest, not two, three or more.
#26. To: robnoel (#24)
They claim there was child abuse and perhaps there was, but nothing like the unimaginable fiery, violent deaths from govt abuse.
#27. To: robin (#23)
This is proof they had no legal right to invade ...
#28. To: noone222 (#22)
This was a huge fishing expedition. The bait was an anonymous tip flung before the bottom feeding CPS sharks....
#29. To: nolu_chan (#28)
Was that anonymous bait... or was that a cooperative person giving some goon the appearance of justification?
#30. To: noone222 (#29)
It looks more like a set up all the time. You're right, the cops have every tracking device known to man at their disposal so surely they can caller I.D.
#31. To: robin, YertleTurtle (#23)
(Edited)
'This is proof they had no legal right to invade and separate all these children from their parents"
#32. To: castletrash (#31)
Where is the 16-year-old girl who made the allegations of abuse?
#33. To: noone222 (#0)
#34. To: aristeides (#33)
They'll have to "find" some evidence, or these agencies will face heavy liability.
#35. To: aristeides, noone222, castletrash (#33)
(Edited)
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