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Title: NO EVIDENCE OF ABUSE AT POLYGAMIST CHURCH
Source: MY WAY NEWS
URL Source: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080417/D903RV800.html
Published: Apr 17, 2008
Author: Michelle Roberts
Post Date: 2008-04-17 20:18:09 by noone222
Keywords: None
Views: 494
Comments: 35

Polygamist sect hearing in Texas descends into farce

Apr 17, 5:19 PM (ET)

By MICHELLE ROBERTS

(AP) Members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints make their way down a...

SAN ANGELO, Texas (AP) - A court hearing to decide the fate of the 416 children swept up in a raid on a West Texas polygamist sect descended into farce Thursday, with hundreds of lawyers in two packed buildings shouting objections and the judge struggling to maintain order.

The case - clearly one of the biggest, most convoluted child-custody hearings in U.S. history - presented an extraordinary tableau: big-city lawyers in suits and mothers in 19th-century, pioneer-style dresses, all packed into a courtroom and a nearby auditorium connected by video.

At issue was an attempt by the state of Texas to strip the parents of custody and place the children in foster homes because of evidence they were being physically and sexually abused by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a renegade Mormon splinter group suspected of forcing underage girls into marriage with older men.

As many feared, the proceedings turned into something of a circus - and a painfully slow one.

(AP) Dan, 24, a member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints walks down a... Full Image

By midafternoon only two witnesses had testified, and both only to lay the foundation for documents to be admitted. One witness, a state trooper, was cross-examined by dozens of attorneys, each of them asking the same question of a behalf of a child or parent.

As the afternoon dragged on, no decisions had been made on any of the youngsters' fate.

Texas District Judge Barbara Walther struggled to maintain order as she faced 100 lawyers in her 80-year-old Tom Green County courtroom and several hundred more participating over a grainy video feed from an ornate City Hall auditorium two blocks away.

The hearing disintegrated quickly into a barrage of shouted objections and attempts to file motions, with lawyers for the children objecting to objections made by the parents' attorneys. When the judge sustained an objection to the prolonged questioning the state trooper, the lawyers cheered.

Upon another objection about the proper admission of medical records of the children, the judge threw up her hands.

"I assume most of you want to make the same objection. Can I have a universal, 'Yes, Judge'?" she said.

In both buildings, the hundreds of lawyers stood and responded in unison: "Yes, Judge."

But she added to the chaos as well.

Walther refused to put medical records and other evidence in electronic form, which could be e-mailed among the lawyers, because it contained personal information. A courier had to run from the courthouse to the auditorium delivering one document at a time.

"We're going to handle this the best we can, one client at a time," Walther said.

Little evidence had been admitted by midafternoon. The first attempt to admit evidence resulted in an hourlong recess while all the lawyers examined it. The rest of the morning was spent in arguments about whether to admit the medical records of three girls, two 17-year-olds and one 18-year-old.

Department of Public Safety Sgt. Danny Crawford testified to DPS's discovery of a church bishop's records taken from a safe at the ranch that listed about 38 families, some of them polygamous and some that included wives 16 or 17 years old. But under repeated cross-examination, Crawford acknowledged the records contained no evidence of sexual abuse.

State officials asked the judge for permission to conduct genetic testing on the children and adults because of difficulty sorting out the sect's tangled family relationships and matching youngsters with their parents. The judge did not immediately rule.

Amid the shouting and chaos among the lawyers, who came from around Texas to represent the children and parents free of charge, dozens of mothers sat timidly in their long cotton dresses, long underwear even in the spring heat, and braided upswept hair.

In the satellite courtroom, about 175 people strained to see and hear a large projector set up on the auditorium's stage. But the feed was blurry and barely audible.

(AP) Map locates a selection of U.S. polygamist compounds, including Eldorado, Texas; 2c x 3 1/2 inches;... Full Image

"I'm not in a position to advocate for anything," complained Susan Hays, the appointed attorney for a 2-year-old sect member.

Outside, where TV satellite trucks lined the street in front of the courthouse's columned facade, a man who said he was an FLDS father waved a photo of himself surrounded by his four children, ranging from a baby to a child of about 9.

"Look, look, look," the father said. "These children are all smiling, we're happy."

Walther signed an emergency order nearly two weeks ago giving the state custody of the children after a 16-year-old girl called an abuse hot line claiming her husband, a 50-year-old member of the sect, beat and raped her. The girl has yet to be identified.

Authorities raided their compound April 3 in the nearby town of Eldorado - a 1,700-acre ranch with a blindingly white limestone temple and log cabin-style houses - and began collecting documents and disk drives that might provide evidence of underage girls being married to adults.

The children, who are being kept in a domed coliseum in San Angelo, range in age from 6 months to 17 years in age. Roughly 100 of them are under 4.

FLDS members deny children were abused and say the state is persecuting them for their faith.

The judge must weigh the allegations of abuse and also decide whether it is in the children's best interest to be placed into mainstream society after they have been told all their lives that the outside world is hostile and immoral.

If the judge gives the state permanent custody of the children, the Texas child services agency will face the enormous task of finding suitable homes. It will also have to decipher brother-sister relationships so that it can try to preserve them.

Over the past two weeks, the agency has relied on volunteers to help feed the children, do their laundry and provide crafts and games for them.

Gov. Rick Perry would not say how much the case is costing the state, but said: "Does the state of Texas have the resources? Absolutely we do."

The sect came to West Texas in 2003, relocating some members from the church's traditional home along the Utah-Arizona state line. Its prophet and spiritual leader, Warren Jeffs, is in prison for forcing an underage girl into marriage in Utah.


Poster Comment:

This entire episode is bunko .... a militia should be formed to restore the children to their parents.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 24.

#1. To: noone222 (#0)

50-year-old men "marrying" and impregnating 14- and 15-year-old girls is abuse.

YertleTurtle  posted on  2008-04-17   20:23:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: YertleTurtle (#1)

50-year-old men "marrying" and impregnating 14- and 15-year-old girls is abuse.

There isn't any PROOF that has taken place. Only innuendo. They haven't even got an identifiable witness ... nothing ... zippo ... nada ... zilch ... of course you ruskies probably don't see the value in real evidence and a real investigation ... just kick down the fucking door and manufacture evidence ...

They have suggested testing the DNA of 416 kids. [Based on what charge ?]

Total police state bullshit at this point.

noone222  posted on  2008-04-17   20:41:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: noone222, YertleTurtle, robin (#5)

There isn't any PROOF that has taken place. Only innuendo. They haven't even got an identifiable witness ... nothing ... zippo ... nada ... zilch ... of course you ruskies probably don't see the value in real evidence and a real investigation ... just kick down the fucking door and manufacture evidence ...

They have suggested testing the DNA of 416 kids. [Based on what charge ?]

Total police state bullshit at this point.

Precisely correct, as far as I can see.

They have an anonymous call from an alleged witness, of unknown age, unknown location, whom they cannot identify. It may be a 33 year old Colorado woman.

The prime suspect for being the alleged husband evildoer appears to have an alibi that he was not in Texas.

Legally, the seized records may not provide any proof of polygamy. They might just need evidence of actual marriage ceremonies to prove there is not a giant shack up going on. The families do not appear cooperative in providing evidence against themselves. The state seems to be alleging some "spiritual union." Perhaps Bill had a "spiritual union" with Monica and went "oh god, oh god."

The DNA of 416 kids would not prove much. They would also need samples from the alleged parents to compare it to. Then it would only prove who is mommy and daddy. If the girl is underage, it could prove statutory rape. Normally they need evidence of a crime first before they embark on a fishing expedition requiring DNA samples.

While not necessarily legally admissible or constituting proof, it appears they claim to have found some evidence that perhaps a half-dozen girls were married (or something like that) underage. I do not believe they have brought forth any evidence yet of forced marriage.

It is not clear what specific people are being charged with whatever.

There were no mass arrests or arrest warrants. Only two people were arrested -- for interfering with the investigation during the raid. The 416 children were taken into custody by Child Protective Services.

"They will not be able to bring criminal charges. They can even be sued for that search." -- Jonathan Turley (see below for more from Turley)

-----

abcnews.go.com/GMA/Story?id=4640067&page=2

Authorities are still looking for the 16-year-old girl who made the cry for help from the compound, and some experts say the legal basis for the Texas officials' raid may not hold up in court if they cannot locate the accuser.

"That 16-year-old is the linchpin for probable cause. She is the reason they said they had cause to go in and do this search. If that is not present, if they can't establish probable cause, then everything they gathered in the search will likely be suppressed," said legal analyst Jonathan Turley today on "Good Morning America Weekend."

He added, "They will not be able to bring criminal charges. They can even be sued for that search."

A custody hearing next week about the 416 children who were seized from the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ranch will question whether the state can legally justify its search of the religious compound.

"You can't hold over 400 children and keep them from their parents unless you can establish that those parents are directly linked to a criminal allegation or abuse," said Turley, a professor of law at George Washington University who has written about polygamy.

To prosecute the other families and children, authorities may have to assume they were all accused.

Turley said making such an assumption would be "a serious problem as they go forward. The court will give the state a fair degree of deference in protecting children initially, but that deference quickly evaporates with time. ... You can't say they're all vicariously guilty because they belong to a certain religion."

abcnews.go.com/GMA/Story?id=4640067&page=3

The defense will likely argue that authorities have equated polygamy with child abuse and used that as the basis for the raid.

"They can't say they're going to raid every polygamous compound. That's like going into every Catholic Church and talking to every altar boy because some priest committed a crime. There's nothing in polygamy that requires a child abuse or child rape."

=====

The Affidavit

www.star-telegram.com/news/photos/gallery/568667.html

=====

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,348148,00.html

The girl's husband was not identified in the court documents released Tuesday. But authorities have issued an arrest warrant for church member Dale Barlow, a 50-year-old believed to be in Arizona.

=====

www.star-telegram.com/state_news/story/587702.html

Posted on Thu, Apr. 17, 2008

A Q&A on the raid of the polygamist sect's compound

By JAY ROOT Star-Telegram Staff Writer

Acting on information about alleged physical and sexual abuse, state authorities conducted a raid of the YFZ Ranch, home to members of a secretive polygamist sect known as the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The state took temporary custody of 416 children. Here are questions and answers about the complicated case as it moves into the judicial system.

Who raided the FLDS compound near Eldorado and why?

Child Protective Services reports receiving a frantic phone call March 29 from a 16-year-old girl claiming she was beaten and raped by her 50-year-old husband. On April 3, law enforcement officials including the Texas Rangers initiated a weeklong raid and took 416 children into custody. Some 139 adults are voluntarily staying with the children. Officials say the raid was necessary to protect the children from sexual and physical abuse.

Have any FLDS members been charged with crimes?

Yes. Two male members were charged with interfering with the investigation stemming from confrontations during the raid. Though the state has filed affidavits saying it has evidence that underage girls were subjected to systematic sexual exploitation and abuse at the YFZ (Yearning For Zion) Ranch, authorities have not arrested or charged anyone with sex crimes or polygamy stemming from the raid. Authorities say any evidence of crimes committed at the compound will be turned over to prosecutors.

Where is the 16-year-old girl who made the allegations of abuse?

Her whereabouts is unknown. Authorities have not identified the girl, but they have reported problems in establishing parentage of many FLDS children, saying adult sect members have given inaccurate information.

State authorities named Dale Barlow of Colorado City, Ariz., as the man suspected of raping the 16-year-old girl. Why hasn't he been arrested?

Barlow has denied the allegations and says he doesn't know the girl. Barlow is a registered sex offender who is on probation after pleading no contest to conspiracy to commit sexual conduct with a minor in Arizona. The Texas Rangers met with Barlow last weekend but have not acted on an arrest warrant against him.

"We are still trying to sort out if it's the correct person or not," said Tela Mange, a spokeswoman for the Texas Department of Public Safety. "Things are not matching up as we expected they would."

What happens next?

A marathon court hearing is scheduled for today in San Angelo, where state District Judge Barbara Walther will preside over the largest child custody hearing in Texas history. She will consider CPS' request for permanent custody of all 416 children. Under Texas law, each child is entitled to legal counsel, and officials say hundreds of lawyers have volunteered to represent the children.

Staff writer John Moritz contributed to this report, which includes material from The Associated Press.

Jay Root reports from the Star-Telegram's Austin bureau.

=====

nolu_chan  posted on  2008-04-18   5:46:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: nolu_chan (#21)

Where is the 16-year-old girl who made the allegations of abuse?

Her whereabouts is unknown. Authorities have not identified the girl

This is proof they had no legal right to invade and separate all these children from their parents - certainly not their mothers.

robin  posted on  2008-04-18   9:32:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: robin (#23)

Many years ago the term "Child Abuse" replaced a thing called disapline.

Child Abuse at Waco

by David B. Kopel

"For the sake of the children," has emerged as one of the most dangerous phrases in American politics. President Clinton has invoked children's alleged dependence on the federal government not just for his putatively child-oriented programs (such as the misnamed Department of Education), but also for issues that have only a tenuous connection to children, such as his prohibition on semiautomatic firearms, or his terrorism proposals for greater wiretapping and for trials with secret evidence. The most ironic, however, of all the administration's claims about its love for children is its persistent assertion that the BATF and FBI attacks on the home of the Branch Davidian children in Waco, Texas, were a noble effort to protect the children from child abuse.

And, it turns out, there really was a massive amount of child abuse at Waco, although not exactly as described by the government.

http://www.davekopel.com/waco/arts/wachroni.htm

The McMartin Preschool Abuse Trial: A Commentary

by Doug Linder (2003)

The McMartin Preschool Abuse Trial, the longest and most expensive criminal trial in American history, should serve as a cautionary tale. When it was all over, the government had spent seven years and $15 million dollars investigating and prosecuting a case that led to no convictions. More seriously, the McMartin case left in its wake hundreds of emotionally damaged children, as well as ruined careers for members of the McMartin staff. No one paid a bigger price than Ray Buckey, one of the principal defendants in the case, who spent five years in jail awaiting trial for a crime (most people recognize today) he never committed. McMartin juror Brenda Williams said that the trial experience taught her to be more cautious: "I now realize how easily something can be said and misinterpreted and blown out of proportion." Another juror, Mark Bassett, singled out "experts" for blame: "I thought some of the expert testimony about the children told you more about the expert than the child. I mean, if the expert says children are always 100% believable and then you have a child who is not believable, either the expert is extremely biased or they've never seen anything like that child before."

www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/...rtin/mcmartinaccount.html

robnoel  posted on  2008-04-18   9:49:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 24.

#26. To: robnoel (#24)

Waco was completely avoidable, Koresh walked into town every week. If they wanted him they could have grabbed the leader easily.
They claim there was child abuse and perhaps there was, but nothing like the unimaginable fiery, violent deaths from govt abuse.

I remember the McMartin case, it sounded just awful. It seems it was just a witch hunt. Other cases followed, I remember the horrific story of a family in Bakersfield.

"It's for the children" is behind Real ID and a host of nonsense designed to corral and reduce us to chattel.

No one wants children to be abused, nor do we want them lost in a system (as 5,000 have been in Florida). Or sexually abused by the very system that was to protect them; as has been reported in the juvenile system of TX, under Alberto Gonzales.

robin  posted on  2008-04-18 10:03:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 24.

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