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Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: US Government, Talmud Mock New Testament
Source: Reese.com
URL Source: http://www.rense.com/general81/talmock.htm
Published: Apr 18, 2008
Author: Ted Pike
Post Date: 2008-04-18 00:36:22 by Zoroaster
Keywords: None
Views: 1260
Comments: 84

US Government, Talmud Mock New Testament By Rev. Ted Pike 4-17-8

The U.S. State Dept.'s Office of Global Anti-Semitism now says the New Testament is a book of conspiracy theory! Yes, our government now rules that the Biblical record that Jews had Christ crucified is not only anti-Semitic; it's conspiracy junk. This step toward criminalization of Christian beliefs directly threatens believers. It is also an act of blatant hypocrisy: While the New Testament is derided as "hate speech," not a word is said about the seething hatred contained in Judaism's most sacred book, the Talmud.

The State Department reports, "The tactics of many anti-Semitic groups include the propagation of conspiracy theories Traditional conspiracy theories" include the belief "that the Jews are responsible for the death of Christ." 1 For tens of millions, the New Testament is anything but conspiracy theory! It's the written Word of God.

But now our State Department says the New Testament account of Christ's passion, culminating in rejection by the Jewish people and crucifixion by the Romans, is akin to the other conspiracy theories that inspired Hitler to attempt to destroy Jews. My previous article, "Bible is Hate, Says U.S. Government," documents the State Department's other charge: that the New Testament espouses "classic anti-Semitism." 2

Hitler is rightly considered a classic anti-Semite. But the State Department, in also labelling the New Testament "classic anti-Semitism," suggests it is morally and intellectually similar to Nazism. This implies the New Testament could lead to yet another Holocaust! This premise, legislated into "anti-hate" laws, will justify persecution of Bible-believers as "anti-Semites." After all, it will be reasoned, people with hateful ideologies, leading to violence against Jews should be restricted, even imprisoned.

Talmud Tells Us Who Killed Christ

Abraham H. Foxman, head of the Jewish Anti-Defamation League, couldn't agree more with the State Department. His organization is the prime mover behind hate laws worldwide and the Office of Global Anti-Semitism. Foxman asserts that Jews of Jesus' time were innocent of the crucifixion; it was entirely the work of Romans. Foxman says New Testament writers concocted the vicious anti-Semitic lie that Jewish leaders and people goaded Pilate to condemn Christ. He says this falsehood - that Jews are "Christ killers"-fanned into flame nearly two millennia of anti-Semitism and led to the Holocaust. He also says it creates "new anti-Semitism" which he warns is rapidly escalating worldwide. 3 ADL's "anti-hate" laws have already been used in dozens of western nations to infringe on the freedom of Christians.

Foxman, as an Orthodox Jew, knows plenty about another book whose vitriol is far darker than that of the Bible. The highest religious and ethical authority of modern Judaism, the Babylonian Talmud, states that Jewish leaders did have Christ condemned to death. In fact, the Talmud says they did it entirely without the Romans' help! Jewish authorities killed Christ not by crucifixion (illegal in Jewish law) but by the legal methods prescribed by Talmudic law.

The Talmud says:

On Passover Eve, they hanged Jesus of Nazareth. And the herald went before him forty days, and proclaimed 'Jesus of Nazareth is going out to be stoned because he practiced sorcery, incited and led Israel astray. Whoever knows of an argument that may be proposed in his favor should come present that argument on his behalf.' But the judges did not find an argument in his favor, and so they hanged him on Passover Eve. 4

The Talmud describes torture inflicted on Jesus before His death. "All four legal methods of execution ­ stoning, burning, decapitation and strangling were employed". 5 The Talmud elaborates on "burning." It involved Jesus being:

"lowered in dung up to his armpits, then a hard cloth was placed within a soft one, wound around his neck and the two ends pulled in opposite directions until he was dead, forcing him to open his mouth. A wick was then lit, and thrown into his mouth, so that it descended into his body, burning his bowels." 6

Jesus, says the Talmud, was excommunicated for the thought of seducing a woman. In His ensuing grief and confusion, He fell down and worshipped a brick. 7 The Talmud says Jesus "was a fool and we do not pay attention to what fools do." 8 According to the Talmud, Jesus is now in hell, writhing in eternal agony. The Talmud asks: "'What is your punishment?' He replied, 'With boiling hot semen'" 9

The Talmud defends the Jewish rulers who it says righteously executed four of Christ's disciples: Matthew, Luke, Nicodemus, and Thaddaeus. 10 It considers His followers to be worshippers of a false prophet and worthy of death. References in the Talmud to Christ and Christians are often veiled by terms not understood by Christian censors in previous centuries. Two of the most common are "Minim" and "Minith." The footnote to the Talmud in Abodah Zarah 16b (pg. 84) says that "Minith" refers to "heresy with special reference to Christianity."

Brotherly love did not extend to the Minim: Christians may be legally thrown into a pit to die. As Abodah Zarah 26b says: "'idolaters and [Jewish] Shepherds of small cattle need not be brought up, though they must not be cast in, but Minim, informers, and apostates may be cast in and need not be brought up.'" In Shabbethai 116, Rabbi Tarbon says, "The writings of the Minim [New Testament] deserve to be burned, even though the holy name of God occurs therein, for paganism is less dangerous than Minith [Christianity]"

According to the Talmud "Those who deny the Torah and the prophets of Israel [giving loyalty to the "false prophet" Jesus and the New Testament], the law is that they should be killed and those who have the power of life and death should have them killed. And if this cannot be done, they should be led to their death by deceptive methods. 11

Christians: Keep Out!

Concerning Gentile Christians who presume to make use of the Jewish Sabbath, The Jewish Encyclopedia tells us, "Resh Lakishsaid, 'A Gentile observing the Sabbath deserves death' (Sanh. 58b)." This article says, "The Sabbath is a sign between God and Israel alone" and the Talmud's death sentence "was probably directed against the Christian Jews" 12 Sanh. 59a says, "A heathen who studies the Torah [Old Testament] deserves death, for it is written, Moses commanded us a law for an inheritance; it is our inheritance not theirs."

Christianity is vividly described in the Talmud as worse than even the most wicked behavior of a Jew. A.Z. 17a says: "Rabbi Eleazar B. Dordia did not leave out any harlot in the world without coming to her" yet attained forgiveness because he had not committed the unforgivable sin of accepting Christianity. Likewise, incest is a "light sin" compared to faith in Jesus. The Talmud tells us "Minuth," along with the Roman government, are the two daughters of hell. One seduces Jews to idolatry; the other keeps them politically bound.

Does the Talmud teach the same "tolerance" and "respect for diversity" which Foxman demands from Christians toward Jews, homosexuals, abortionists, and pornographers? Listen to how the Talmud instructs Jews to respond to the death of a Jew who has become a Christian:

At the death of one who had severed all ties with his people no rites whatever should be observed. His brothers and relatives should dress in white and cloak themselves in white. They should eat, drink and be merry, for an enemy of God has perished. As it is written, 'Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate Thee? And do not I strive with those that rise up against Thee? I hate them with utmost hatred; I count them my enemies.' (Psalms 139:21-4)" 13

Is this "hate?" Absolutely!

It's hard to imagine greater hate than the Talmud teaches against Christ and Christians. Jewish "civil liberties" groups such as ADL, ACLU, Southern Poverty Law Center, and People for the American Way set themselves up as lawgivers to the world. They propose to end "hate, intolerance, prejudice, and bias." Yet, the greatest religious and ethical authority for modern observant Judaism, the Talmud (which far exceeds the authority of the Old Testament for religious Jews) 14, cannot be surpassed in its hate, intolerance, prejudice, and bias against Christians. Chief among Jewish ethical pontificators is Abe Foxman, a devout Orthodox, Talmud-quoting Jew, who says he earnestly awaits the coming of Israel's "messiah." This, of course, is not Jesus but Antichrist. 15

"Christophobia"

With this in mind we can understand why Jewish activist groups exhibit such a loathing of Jesus and His name in public schools, government and the military and why they tirelessly labor to remove all symbols having to do with Him, especially at Christmas and Easter.

Jewish activists accuse evangelicals of "homophobia," preaching hate against homosexuals. Actually, out of love, Christians warn sodomites that, unless they repent, their sexual perversion will land them in hell forever. In contrast, Jewish activists are consummate "Christophobes," opposing Christ and His followers -- not out of love but from a morbid obsession to remove all memory of what their forefathers did, screaming, "Crucify Him! Crucify Him! His blood be upon us and our children!"

Like Lady Macbeth, who washed her murderous hands incessantly, muttering, "Out, out, damned spot!" the descendants of those who had Christ killed attempt to wash away their guilt with lies.

There's only One, however, who can wash away anyone's sins. Scripture repeatedly promises He will come again and "they shall look upon Me whom they have pierced and they shall mourn" 16 He who makes the vilest sinners clean will put "a heart of flesh" in Israel, wherein now resides "a heart of stone" against Him. At last God will remove the obsession to defame Him out of Israel.

The saga of Christ's dealings with the Jews is thus one of radical extremes: vitriolic hate, as Talmudic Jewry strives to prevent His appearance, and astonishing love, as Christ eventually proves His power to save a whole nation of repentant Jews.

Someday all the earth will gasp in amazement saying, "Who is a God like unto Thee, that pardoneth iniquity and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of His heritage?" 17

Endnotes:

1. See, Contemporary Global Anti-Semitism: A Report Provided to the United States Congress, p. 31. 2. See, Bible is Hate, says U.S. Government. 3. See, ADL's Foxman: New Testament is Anti-Semitic. 4. The Babylonian Talmud, translated by Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz, Random House, New York, 1989 - ca.97. 5. "Balaam," Jewish Encyclopedia, pg. 469. 6. Mishnah, Sanhedrin, 52a, The Babylonian Talmud, Soncino Press, 1948, London. 7. Sanhedrin, 107b. This is confirmed by The Jewish Encyclopedia article on "Jesus," p.170. 8. Sanhedrin 67a, cited. in The Talmud Unmasked, by Rev. I. B. Pranaitis, p. 34. A number of anti-Christian and Gentile passages of the Talmud, too inflammatory to be included in the 1948 Soncino translation, are presented in this credible work by a dedicated scholar and Hebraist. Many of these passages resurfaced in Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz's recent translation of the Talmud. The Talmud Unmasked is available from Christian Book Club, P.O. Box 566, Palmdale, CA, 93550. ph. (661)274-2240 9. Gittin, 57b. 10. Sanhedrin 43a. 11. Choschen Hammishpat, 156 Haggah. 12. "Gentiles," Jewish Encyclopedia, p. 623. 13. Treatise Semahot, ch. 2, p. 35; translated by Dov Zlotnick of the Jewish Theological Seminary, New Haven and London, 1966. 14. Articles on "Talmud" and "Authority" in the three major encyclopedias of Judaism, The Jewish Encyclopedia, The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, and The Encyclopedia Judaica, agree on the Talmud's vastly greater authority. 15. See, ADL's Foxman: Man of Faith? 16. Zechariah 12:10. 17. Micah 7:18

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#34. To: PSUSA (#24)

Christ really raked the religious leaders over the coals.

You forgot to mention the vandalism and terrorism in the temple. And, oh yeah, the "turn the other cheek" thing. Oh! .... and the multiplying fishes!!!

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   13:27:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: nobody (#30)
(Edited)

Tell me, did you notice how he completely ignored the word "usually"

The only time that word appears in this thread is in the above quote.

"I'll bet you noticed it," I dont see how anyone could notice it, if it isn't there to begin with.

"Fortunately for me this is the internet and so one of you can't pretend to accidentally shove me into another one of you. "

Who would bother?

And WE are bitter?

------They may look intimidating, that's by design; but they aren't bulletproof. -------

PSUSA  posted on  2008-04-18   13:29:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: nobody (#32)

You are totally without understanding. ReallyOrnery tried in a kind way, to instruct you in the truth for your own benefit and salvation, but you refuse instruction. I have tried to instruct you as well. I am very sorry for you. For some reason, I don't know why, it appears you haven't been chosen by Christ. Hope that makes you mad. Maybe it will make you stop and think. There is still time to repent, and invite Him into your heart, but I think that time is running out fast.

President Wilson signed the Federal Reserve Act on December 23, 1913. History proved that on that day, the Constitution ceased to be the governing covenant of the American people, and our liberties were handed over to a small group of international bankers. - Secrets of the Federal Reserve by Eustace Mullins

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2008-04-18   13:30:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: PSUSA (#35)

The only time that word appears in this thread is in the above quote.

How about "frequently"?

Geeze, horses and drinks, I tell ya.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   13:31:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: PSUSA (#35)

WE are bitter?

Let's not beat about the bushes here --- Who's responsible for the crucifixion?

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   13:33:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: nobody (#31)

I gotta be honest here - you're both full of shit and proud of it.

You "gotta be honest"? uh huh. What it SOUNDS like you "gotta be," or have chosen to be, is a heathen. I could say I hope that works out well for you but I know it won't.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-04-18   13:45:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: nobody (#37)

How about "frequently"?

You said: "Miracles exist only to deceive people, frequently for the purpose of demoralizing and minimalizing people through intimidation. "

My bad. I didn't sift thru all of your posts and find 1 word with a similar meaning. Silly me.

So, miracles exist? But they are only to deceive people. But they exist. They intimidate, but miracles exist. They demoralize, but they exist. Do they exist or don't they?

If you dont believe in miracles, then say so. But dont say that they exist, but they are this, that, and the other thing without showing how this is the case.

Sorry, but you are not making sense here. Try and let that bitterness go, and you will think straight. There is no reason for it, because I wont take the bait by acting like how you think I should act, or how you are trying to get me to act.

------They may look intimidating, that's by design; but they aren't bulletproof. -------

PSUSA  posted on  2008-04-18   13:47:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: ReallyOrnery (#4)

The neurosurgeon who operated on me called me a walking miracle

It empowers them to say that. I suppose I too could lapse into the same sort of gamesmanship if I was a doctor, because doctors seeem to say that sort of BS whenever possible - I wish I had a nickel for every time I hear that sort of stuff. I suppose if they can just stun the patient like that, it probably makes the rest of the meeting go smoothly, even if the patient doesn't buy it the doc knows it'll float with everyone else. You should know that if the same doctor later tells you you're evil for no apparent reason, it's because he's still full of shit. See? I care about you more (LOL) than someone who's just manipulating you into predictable patient reactions, and the doctor's all-too-common voodoo-like medical- religious quackpottery really should stop.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   13:52:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: nobody (#41)

Admit it, you have a crush on God but do not want to let on about it.

_______  posted on  2008-04-18   13:53:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: James Deffenbach (#39)

You've gotta (got to) be bitter about my spelling here too.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   13:54:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: _______ (#42)

you have a crush on God

God is a concept that it is always of dubious legitimate merit, yet most people buy it, for reasons presumably just as dubious. I'm somewhat obsessed with oddball things like that.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   14:02:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: _______ (#42)

Admit it, you have a crush on God but do not want to let on about it.

I believe there are other atheists and agnostics like me who do not ascribe to any pro-homosexual social or political agenda, presuming that includes what you meant to suggest the opposite of.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   14:06:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: _______ (#42)

you have a crush on God but do not want to let on about it

Please, tell me more.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   14:11:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: All (#46) (Edited)

I'd like to apologize to anyone who is named Chris, or Christine, etc. for not explaining earlier that there is no reason to take it personally. A name is just a name. Everyone in my family has Biblical names, I know how it feels. The truth here hurts, this I know personally, and I know it's not popular or politically correct.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   14:17:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Zoroaster (#0)

The State Department reports, "The tactics of many anti-Semitic groups include the propagation of conspiracy theories Traditional conspiracy theories" include the belief "that the Jews are responsible for the death of Christ."

Ask Barabbas!

<< Mark 15 >> New American Standard Bible

Jesus before Pilate

1 Early in the morning the chief priests with the elders and scribes and the whole Council, immediately held a consultation; and binding Jesus, they led Him away and delivered Him to Pilate.
2 Pilate questioned Him, “Are You the King of the Jews?” And He answered him, “It is as you say.”
3 The chief priests began to accuse Him harshly.
4 Then Pilate questioned Him again, saying, “Do You not answer? See how many charges they bring against You!”
5 But Jesus made no further answer; so Pilate was amazed.

6 Now at the feast he used to release for them any one prisoner whom they requested.
7 The man named Barabbas had been imprisoned with the insurrectionists who had committed murder in the insurrection.
8 The crowd went up and began asking him to do as he had been accustomed to do for them.
9 Pilate answered them, saying, “Do you want me to release for you the King of the Jews?”
10 For he was aware that the chief priests had handed Him over because of envy.
11 But the chief priests stirred up the crowd to ask him to release Barabbas for them instead.
12 Answering again, Pilate said to them, “Then what shall I do with Him whom you call the King of the Jews?”
13 They shouted back, “Crucify Him!”
14 But Pilate said to them, “Why, what evil has He done?” But they shouted all the more, “Crucify Him!”
15 Wishing to satisfy the crowd, Pilate released Barabbas for them, and after having Jesus scourged, he handed Him over to be crucified.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-18   14:23:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: nobody (#43) (Edited)

You've gotta (got to) be bitter about my spelling here too.

If I had the time, or cared enough, I might try to figure out why I should be bitter about your spelling. As it happens I am not bitter about anything.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-04-18   14:25:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: PSUSA (#40)

Silly me.

I truly don't care. The context was about the pure intellectual gang-thuggery there, not the pure intellectual gang-thuggery there with your latest snot piled on top of it, anyway.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   14:28:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: James Deffenbach (#49)

I might try to figure out why I should be bitter about your spelling

uh great. what a guy.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   14:29:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#33)

NOW THE GOVERNMENT CAN LEGALLY KILL CHRISTIANS [Cong. Bill Dannemeyer explains how the NOAHIDE LAW was treacherously passed.]

http://www.freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=70165

You seem to understand I posted this article as a warning that history is repeating itself. I'd venture to say the Zionists have more power in America today than the Bolsheviks had in 1917 Russia. Some historians estimate that 40- million Russians and Ukrainians, mostly Orthodox Christians, went to early graves in the aftermath of the Bolshevik Revolution.

The gulags are already in place in America. Wake up! folks, it can happen here.

Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.

Zoroaster  posted on  2008-04-18   14:39:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: nobody (#50)

I truly don't care. The context was about the pure intellectual gang-thuggery there, not the pure intellectual gang-thuggery there with your latest snot piled on top of it, anyway.

If you "truly" don't care, why do you keep replying? Why waste your time on all of us stupid Christians?

Well, you're not really replying, just namecalling. You protest too much, and it makes you look foolish.

------They may look intimidating, that's by design; but they aren't bulletproof. -------

PSUSA  posted on  2008-04-18   14:46:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: PSUSA (#53)

I brought up something different from the thing I said I didn't care about, and you're pretending they're all the same thing. What's the point of talking to a word clown who does that sort of crap on a regular basis. There is none, I'm done with you. Take a hint and stop poking at me.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   14:51:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: nobody (#20)

The Bible is still a piece of shit........

You used the word "shit" once to often on this thread. This post was your worst offense. Adios. You've been relegated permanently to the BOZO filter. Bye now

Photobucket

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." © IndieTx

IndieTX  posted on  2008-04-18   14:53:49 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: IndieTX (#55)

Thanks, one less Bible-pushing asshole giving me crap in an environment completely polluted with them.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   14:55:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: All (#56)

Is pushing the Bible an official objective of freedom4um? If so, I'm outta here.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   14:57:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: All (#57)

I see no hint of Biblically-inspired idiocy on the forum's welcome page, so I guess I'm safe here for now. These Bible-pushers are something else.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   15:00:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: nobody (#54)

I'm done with you.

OK, I fully expect you to put me on bozo then. I wont do it to you, because that is what you want me to do, and I already said I was not going to play that game.

Your unjustified bitterness is going to take years off of your life, because you are probably like this in Real Life too. Let it go, not for my sake, but for yours.

------They may look intimidating, that's by design; but they aren't bulletproof. -------

PSUSA  posted on  2008-04-18   15:03:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: PSUSA (#53)

namecalling

Pot, meet kettle.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   15:05:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: PSUSA (#59)

put me on bozo then

You can s*** my d*** first, rude needy person.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   15:06:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: nobody (#60)

Pot, meet kettle.

I never called you any names.

------They may look intimidating, that's by design; but they aren't bulletproof. -------

PSUSA  posted on  2008-04-18   15:14:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#36)

I have tried to instruct you as well.

Maybe you'll take the hint on the result and stop abusing non-believers with your abundant Biblically-inspired religious nonsense.

Nah, your agenda is too huge and popular for you to suffer in silence...

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   15:14:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: PSUSA (#62)

called you any names

Okay, only if you insist, but who's the "bitter one" again?

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   15:26:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: PSUSA (#62)

I never called you any names

You brought it up, so I have to ask, are you insinuating that "namecalling" is a logical fallacy existing on a level significantly higher than any other dubious argument technique that you'd care to identify in your diatribes against me?

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   15:29:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: nobody (#64)

Okay, only if you insist, but who's the "bitter one" again?

You are. Look at what you wrote, vs what I and others wrote, and ask yourself how you would react in my / their place(s).

Bitter accurately describes your words and attitude. Same thing when I said you were acting foolish. I didnt say you were a fool.

THe people you think are giving you a hard time are just reacting to what you say and how you say it. There is no reason for it. If you don't want to have anything to do with believers, then dont have anything to do with them. No harm, no foul. But if you think that people will just sit back and put up with your attacks, you will get a predictable reaction. Maybe you want that reaction, I dont know.

Personally, I think they are wrong for letting you pull their strings, but that is the choice they made, for their own reasons.

------They may look intimidating, that's by design; but they aren't bulletproof. -------

PSUSA  posted on  2008-04-18   15:37:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: nobody (#65)

in your diatribes against me?

My diatribes against YOU?

I didn't start this. I was perfectly willing to have a civil conversation.

------They may look intimidating, that's by design; but they aren't bulletproof. -------

PSUSA  posted on  2008-04-18   15:39:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#36) (Edited)

I have to give the Catholics a lot of credit, because I was raised Catholic and two things they taught me were "don't proselytize" (including essentially to not even bring up one's religion unless asked) and that "Catholics are Christians", so my objections to proselytizing have nothing to do with me being a Christian or not. They never have. Anyway, the most interesting thing about that that I have noticed is that all proselytizers appear to be tremendous assholes in many suprising ways. The Catholics were oh so right about proselytizing. Quoting the Bible frequently where not being asked to do so is rather blatant proselytizing, IMO.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   15:40:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: nobody (#68)

Anyway, the most interesting thing about that that I have noticed is that all proselytizers appear to be tremendous assholes in many suprising ways. The Catholics were oh so right about proselytizing.

There is something we can agree on.

We are not called to "win souls for the Lord". Those that do this see other people as just another jewel in their crowns. The church is corrupt and they have turned the Gospel upside down and inside out. Their "gospel" is good news for a very few, and infinitely bad news for the vast majority.

Scripture, otoh, tells a different story. We are not responsible for converting anyone, God is. We are just to be ready to give an answer to those that ask. I can cite scripture to back all of this up. But I will ignite a real shitstorm myself among other christians if I do this, especially if I disprove the "eternal torture in "Hell" " BS. And, it is BS.

------They may look intimidating, that's by design; but they aren't bulletproof. -------

PSUSA  posted on  2008-04-18   15:55:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: PSUSA (#69) (Edited)

Catholics did not have to take all of the Bible literally (still don't, I suppose, so "evolution" per se is presumably still okay with them, for example), so there's one obvious reason for not bringing up the subject of one's religion.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   16:00:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: nobody (#58)

_______  posted on  2008-04-18   16:03:49 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: PSUSA (#66)

You can call me "the bitter one" if you wish, but you might want to drop the objection to "namecalling" if that is the case, for logical consistency's sake.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   16:05:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: nobody (#70)

Well, imo, there is no harm in discussing religion. The problem comes from trying to convince others that they must believe as they do, and they try real hard to do this. I made this mistake too, in the past. The problem was, what I thought was true was a lie. I was trying to get people to believe lies. I pissed off my share of people too.

This is why I thank God that we are not responsible for converting anyone. We screw it up royally.

------They may look intimidating, that's by design; but they aren't bulletproof. -------

PSUSA  posted on  2008-04-18   16:11:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: PSUSA (#73) (Edited)

Name-calling is a great stress-reliever for the namecaller, and there are so many other, widely-used and more devious, ways of distracting from a point. I say let's not fuss too much about it.

Anyways, it's almost the age of Aquarius and stuff (2150), and you know what that means. All new occult-based icons from the elite to replace the old, worn out ones. Appears to be a very feminine theme in the works for the next eon.

nobody  posted on  2008-04-18   16:17:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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