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(s)Elections
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Title: The 2008 Election Will Be Stolen
Source: DU
URL Source: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/davidswanson/438
Published: Apr 19, 2008
Author: David Swanson
Post Date: 2008-04-20 03:14:28 by nolu_chan
Keywords: None
Views: 774
Comments: 41

The 2008 Election Will Be Stolen

Posted by davidswanson in General Discussion
Sat Apr 19th 2008, 04:32 PM

A new collection of essays edited by Mark Crispin Miller called "Loser Take All: Election Fraud and the Subversion of Democracy, 2000 - 2008," tells the story better than any single source I've seen yet.

The Supreme Court stopped a recount in Florida in 2000 that would have made Al Gore president. This is not speculation. The recount was later done.

Numerous elections were stolen in 2002, in Colorado, New Hampshire, Minnesota, and elsewhere, including Senate, Governor, and House races in Georgia that were practically openly swiped by Diebold's elections unit president flying in at the last minute and altering the election machines. The theft of Don Siegelman's 2002 election as governor of Alabama was almost as transparent. One county reported a set of results from electronic machines that made Siegelman governor, then recalculated and reported a different set of results. The new results were statistically impossible, and the pair of reports strongly suggested exactly how the machines were rigged, first mistakenly and later as intended.

John Kerry and John Edwards won the presidential election in 2004. The evidence of specific fraud in Ohio and elsewhere is overwhelming, but so is the evidence of the exit polls. The unadjusted exit polls show Kerry and Edwards winning. When the results are "adjusted" to conform to the official results, we are asked to believe that Bush and Cheney increased their big city voters from 2.3 million in 2000 to 5.4 million in 2004, a 153 percent increase. While support for Cheney-Bush dropped off in rural areas, small towns, medium sized cities, etc., it skyrocketed in the Democratic strongholds of big cities. Let me be clear: that's the official story of what happened, not the wild conspiracy theory of ordinary people who allow themselves to be influenced by facts, logic, or memory of actual events.

Election fraud was not limited to Ohio or to the presidential race in 2004, but was widespread and systematic. This was also true in 2006. In many cases, Democratic turnout overwhelmed Republican fraud in 2006, and the Democrats picked up 30 new seats. But those victories were by larger margins than people believe. In other races, Republican fraud won out, and was immediately hushed up. Read the evidence in "Loser Take All," and then think about how the current Congress would have been different with 40 or 50 new Democrats rather than 30. The 2006 elections saw the most widespread and sophisticated election fraud our country has yet seen, combined with the greatest public confidence since 2000 that elections were honest and verifiable. That combination does not bode well for 2008.

The views of Senator John McCain are so far from those of most Americans, that Miller rightly refers to the Republicans as a fringe party. But that fringe party is perfecting election theft. The only way to prevent John McCain from being the next president would be to hand him such a whopping defeat that he could not plausibly claim to have honestly won. Sadly, Senator Obama (the Democratic nominee, barring an antidemocratic coup by super delegates) appears intent on avoiding a landslide at all costs and aiming, rather, for a tight victory of 1 or 2 percent. (And Senator Clinton appears intent on losing the election should she be miraculously nominated.)

Obama is sitting on a number of keys to a landslide if he would only pull them out of his pocket and use them. Thus far it appears he will not. The 20 percent of Americans who support the occupation of Iraq are not potential Obama voters. There is nothing to be gained by appealing to them. But when I talk to people in the peace movement, they are increasingly telling me they plan to stay home or vote for a third party candidate such as Ralph Nader or Cynthia McKinney. None of them are potential McCain voters. They are, in fact, what Senator Hillary Clinton disdainfully refers to as "the activist base of the Democratic Party." According to Clinton, these people:

"turn out in great numbers. And they are very driven by their view of positions, and it's primarily national security and foreign policy that drives them. I don't agree with them. They know I don't agree with them."

Well, guess what, we don't agree with Obama either. We appreciate the credit Clinton gives us for her defeat. For his own good, Obama needs to understand that he's next, that those of us who actively represent the 80 percent of the nation opposed to the occupation will direct our activism at him until he agrees to a speedy and complete withdrawal from Iraq. And we will mobilize millions to guarantee a landslide if Obama stands up this week and leads a filibuster of the next $170 billion for the occupation. If he continues to claim that he opposes the occupation while funding it with our grandchildren's borrowed treasure, his criticism of McCain will fall flat. If he continues to speak of reducing the U.S. presence in Iraq to "non-combat troops" while soldiers get their heads blown off deep within the Green Zone, he will lose all credibility. A "non-combat troop" in Iraq is another name for John McCain's fantasy that the Iraqis will someday stop resisting. If Obama votes No on the $170 billion without actively lobbying his colleagues to vote No, he will not be seen as sincere.

Obama was asked last week in Philadelphia about impeachment, indictment, and accountability for Bush and Cheney. He suggested that he MIGHT investigate their crimes AFTER we elect him president, and that he MIGHT prosecute them "if" they were found to have committed crimes. "If"? "If"? That word may become as famous as Dick Cheney's "So?" At every stop Obama makes on this endless campaign, people should hand him copies of John Conyers' "The Constitution in Crisis," a book you can buy in most bookstores which documents a long list of criminal offenses committed by Bush and Cheney. Does Obama disagree with the book's conclusions? Does he have a response to Bush's public confession to violating the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act? Does he question the two Government Accountability Office studies that have found that in a significant percentage of cases, when Bush has announced his right to violate laws through signing statements, he has proceeded to violate those laws? Does Obama now believe the invasion of Iraq and everything that came with it was possibly legal? Was the February 7, 2002, order from Bush allowing the torture of detainees a legal act? "If?" "If?"

(You can find Conyers' whole book for free here: http://afterdowningstreet.org/constitution... Just click on "Summary," print out that short section, and send it to Obama.)

If Obama were to quietly allow impeachment hearings on Cheney or Bush to proceed on such subjects as torture and signing statements, he could put McCain on the defensive and force him to defend each crime while promising not to commit it. Impeachment hearings could squeeze out all coverage of nonsense spats and scandals. And if the American public understood that voting for Obama would put Bush and Cheney behind bars, we would see a landslide that could not be denied.

Sadly, it looks like we're going to see a tight race. During this tight race, good citizens will avoid all other political activism and devote their energies to the race. And not just their energies. We will transfer enough wealth to build a real populist movement for justice or a legitimate source of news into the hands of corporate television networks in the form of campaign ads. And, as a reward for our efforts, the election will be stolen.

Unless we interrupt this script and make some changes.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

#1. To: nolu_chan (#0)

Vote fraud, or election rigging, should carry the death penalty.

Lod  posted on  2008-04-20   10:29:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: lodwick (#1) (Edited)

Voting for establishment whores like Obama, McCain, and Clinton (either one or both) should get people locked up in the loony bin too but, sadly, it doesn't. Something like 300 million people living in this country and this is the best they can offer? Unbelievable.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-04-20   10:52:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: James Deffenbach (#2)

Good observation.

I asked a friend if she was going to vote, and if so, for whom - she said that she'd hold her nose and go for McKook.

Lod  posted on  2008-04-20   10:56:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: nolu_chan (#0)

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-04-20   10:58:28 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: nolu_chan (#0)

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-04-20   10:59:17 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: lodwick (#3)

Good observation.

I asked a friend if she was going to vote, and if so, for whom - she said that she'd hold her nose and go for McKook.

I think I would have asked her what the point was if she had to hold her nose.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-04-20   11:13:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: James Deffenbach (#2)

I really think a lot of GOPers do NOT want to "own" the system anymore as it crumbles on so many levels.

Rush Limbaugh, for example, always is at the top of his game when the Dems take over the White House. He is off-balance in the role of defending GOPer misrule.

Of course, the issue of possible confiscatory taxation of his fortune always overrides his hoping for an outcome which would result in a more entertaining radio program.

I think, for the first time since the 1860s, this country could fairly easily separate into smaller sovereign entities. And I do not see how it could be militarily prevented this time around.

The diehard GOPers in the Deep South definitely have ZERO in common with most of the other people in this country. I would like to see this 20 percent contingent be the ONLY people conscripted and also TAXED to pay for these never-ending wars.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-04-20   11:17:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Sam Houston (#7)

The diehard GOPers in the Deep South definitely have ZERO in common with most of the other people in this country. I would like to see this 20 percent contingent be the ONLY people conscripted and also TAXED to pay for these never-ending wars.

I live in the "deep south" and I have nothing in common with people like Bush, McCain, either of the Clintons or Obama other than we are all bipeds and more or less "warm blooded mammals."

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-04-20   11:47:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Sam Houston (#7)

The diehard GOPers in the Deep South

Oh yeah--you could be right with your main point but not all of us who live in the South care anything at all about the establishment and its whores.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-04-20   11:48:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: nolu_chan (#0)

A new collection of essays edited by Mark Crispin Miller called "Loser Take All: Election Fraud and the Subversion of Democracy, 2000 - 2008," tells the story better than any single source I've seen yet.

The Supreme Court stopped a recount in Florida in 2000 that would have made Al Gore president. This is not speculation. The recount was later done.

It's true.

If Obama were to quietly allow impeachment hearings on Cheney or Bush to proceed on such subjects as torture and signing statements, he could put McCain on the defensive and force him to defend each crime while promising not to commit it. Impeachment hearings could squeeze out all coverage of nonsense spats and scandals. And if the American public understood that voting for Obama would put Bush and Cheney behind bars, we would see a landslide that could not be denied.

And IF Obama had not used the word IF his chances of living until tomorrow would be significantly less.

Obama Would "Immediately Review" Potential Of Crimes In Bush White House (Posted on 4um 5 days ago)

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-20   11:54:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: *Obama 2008* (#10)

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-20   11:54:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: nolu_chan (#0)

The 2008 Election Will Be Stolen

What election? There is an election going on? Wouldn't that require a way to prove you voted for a certain candidate? I think so. Very few states do that, there is no election going on. There is a SHOW going on and naive people think that it is an election.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-04-20   12:33:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: robin (#11)

*Obama 2008*

*Racist 2008* What your ping list should be called to cut through the BS.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-04-20   12:35:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: robin (#10)

Not to say Hillary or McCain are any better because they will ALL take orders from their masters behind the scenes. Anyone who doesn't know that hasn't studied the political system very long or very much.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-04-20   12:38:03 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: robin (#10)

And IF Obama had not used the word IF his chances of living until tomorrow would be significantly less.

Obama's words mean nothing. You should know that by now. He can't be held responsible for what he says.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-04-20   12:38:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: James Deffenbach (#9)

I'm in East Texas, which is pretty similar to the Deep South. The diehard GOPers live here also.

The people to whom I refer attend the Southern Baptist and other like-minded "evangelical" churches (I am a former SBCer myself) who for a time actually thought of Dubya Bush as some sort of god almost eligible for membership in the Trinity.'

They are confused nowadays, but will still robotically pull the lever for whatever creature the GOPers nominate. It is God's will. They really believe that.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-04-20   12:47:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: James Deffenbach (#14)

Do you know that 15% of Americans in some poll still believe the lie that Obama is a Muslim?

No wonder campaigns get so dirty, dirty tricks work!

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-20   12:48:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Sam Houston (#7)

The diehard GOPers in the Deep South definitely have ZERO in common with most of the other people in this country. I would like to see this 20 percent contingent be the ONLY people conscripted and also TAXED to pay for these never-ending wars.

Sam...

Do you really want to stand by that statement???

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-20   12:52:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Sam Houston (#16)

for a time actually thought of Dubya Bush as some sort of god almost eligible for membership in the Trinity.'

I am glad to hear you have got out of that cult. They obviously did some serious brainwashing on you for you to think such a thing. I never once thought that of Bush. I only voted for him in 2000 becasue I thought he was the lesser of two evils. When he decided to allow federal funding for research involving human embryos just a month before 9/11 I knew he was not the lesser of two evils at all.

In 2004 I voted for Peroutka and felt good about it even though I had to write his name in. I will never vote for the lesser of any evil again, even if that means I don't vote at all.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-04-20   12:56:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Sam Houston (#16)

I'm in East Texas, which is pretty similar to the Deep South.

East Texas is the deep south I think. You can't get much deeper.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-04-20   12:58:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: robin (#17)

Do you know that 15% of Americans in some poll still believe the lie that Obama is a Muslim?

No wonder campaigns get so dirty, dirty tricks work!

With his background of having lived in Muslim/Moslem (?) countries as a child and having attended madrassas--at least I think that is what they are called--is it so hard to understand why people might believe that? I really don't know what his real feelings are because he is a politician and can't be trusted. I don't think he will tell the truth if a lie will advance his career. But I think the same about Clinton (both of them) and McCain.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-04-20   12:59:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: robin (#17)

Do you know that 15% of Americans in some poll still believe the lie that Obama is a Muslim?

With a name like Obama Hussien I don't blame them. If I heard nothing about him before I would think the same thing.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-04-20   13:00:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Sam Houston (#16)

The people to whom I refer attend the Southern Baptist and other like-minded "evangelical" churches (I am a former SBCer myself) who for a time actually thought of Dubya Bush as some sort of god almost eligible for membership in the Trinity.'

They are confused nowadays, but will still robotically pull the lever for whatever creature the GOPers nominate. It is God's will. They really believe that.

Not all Baptists should be judged by the ones you are talking about either. I never voted for Bush the first time and haven't voted for any establishment politician in many years. I learned a long time ago that they are all pretty much alike.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-04-20   13:01:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: James Deffenbach (#21)

Oh for pity's sake. He lived there a few years before the age of 10. From 10 on he lived in Hawaii with his grandparents from the Mid-West.

Maybe he's actually a Hawaiian or better yet a Polynesian chieftain! Yeah, and he believes in polygamy and forces teenagers to marry their first cousins. Don't stop yet, I'm sure we could make up more stuff.... Last month it was the Rev. Wright (the pastor of a Christian church for 30 years) who the media went after, distorting as much as they possibly could. Maybe Wright's a Muslim too, or do I mean Mormon? The sheeple must be so confused by now.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-20   13:04:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: robin (#24)

Yeah, but then I am not a sheeple who falls for the lies of the establishment clowns like some people do. And maybe when you get some age on you you won't either. Where there is life there is hope.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-04-20   13:12:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: robin (#24)

Oh for pity's sake. He lived there a few years before the age of 10. From 10 on he lived in Hawaii with his grandparents from the Mid-West.

Maybe he's actually a Hawaiian or better yet a Polynesian chieftain! Yeah, and he believes in polygamy and forces teenagers to marry their first cousins. Don't stop yet, I'm sure we could make up more stuff.... Last month it was the Rev. Wright (the pastor of a Christian church for 30 years) who the media went after, distorting as much as they possibly could. Maybe Wright's a Muslim too, or do I mean Mormon? The sheeple must be so confused by now.

Wright a Christian? No Robin, people who are racist are NOT Christians. Wright doesn't know Jesus, of that I am sure.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-04-20   13:14:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: James Deffenbach (#25)

lol!

Well, I'll put it this way, I appreciate who Obama's enemies are. The Rove machine has already made preemptive strikes against Obama, with echoes heard from Limbaugh, O'Reilly, etc...I consider that a real important compliment.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-20   13:17:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: robin (#27)

Well, I'll put it this way, I appreciate who Obama's enemies are. The Rove machine has already made preemptive strikes against Obama, with echoes heard from Limbaugh, O'Reilly, etc...I consider that a real important compliment.

The funny thing is that I don't support ANY of those people. And unless I am mistaken you used to be a Ron Paul supporter--true? If so, I don't know how you could even consider any of the clowns who they have chosen for you to pick from. It doesn't make sense.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-04-20   13:20:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: RickyJ, robin (#15)

Obama's words mean nothing.

Do you find differently for some other politician?

nolu_chan  posted on  2008-04-20   13:23:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: James Deffenbach (#14) (Edited)

Back in 2000 I voted for Buchanan because I saw no fundamental difference between Algore and Double-Dumbo.

7 years later, I can hardly think of a bad thing that Algore would have done that W didn't do, and probably did more of it. However, it is VERY unlikely that Algore would have invaded Iraq. In fact, 9/11 might have been prevented, given that it was W's transportation secretary that issued some stupid directive that threatened airlines with stiff fines if they searched more than 2 people of the same ethnicity boarding the same flight.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-04-20   13:23:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: nolu_chan (#29)

Do you find differently for some other politician?

Yep, Ron Paul seems to have meant what he has said. Bob Barr doesn't appear that bad either.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2008-04-20   13:25:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: James Deffenbach (#28)

Yes, I voted for RP in the primaries; and I had to change back to GOP from Constitution Party to do so. Well, I've explained several times, I'll try again. Of the three remaining real choices I consider Obama to be a gamble but the one most likely to get us out of Iraq and he says he'll even restore habeas corpus. I don't expect a lot more from him that I would like, but I am hopeful about these two things he has stated he will do.

OTOH, I am positive that the other two will keep us in the ME indefinitely. They are well-known quantities of evil. IMO Obama is being smeared as evil, but I have yet to see truly compelling real hard evidence that he is.

I've also stated more than once that I still might vote Constitution Party, as I did in '04 since CA was strongly against Bush. And if it is strongly against McCain, I will feel free to do so again.

These are decisions everyone must make on their own. I'm trying to point out the known evils of McCain and Hillary and poke holes in what I believe to be mostly baseless attacks against Obama; although not entirely, and I appreciate the discussions here when they are civil.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-20   13:30:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: nolu_chan (#29)

Like I just posted, I appreciate who Obama's enemies are.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-20   13:33:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: James Deffenbach (#21)

With his background of having lived in Muslim/Moslem (?) countries as a child and having attended madrassas--at least I think that is what they are called--is it so hard to understand why people might believe that?

How many times is this disproved sewage going to be recycled?

www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

Claim: Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, introduced his stepson to Islam. Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta. Wahabism is the RADICAL teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world.

The claim that Obama attended a radical Wahabbist school in Indonesia in the mid-1960s is exceedingly far-fetched, given that:

The large Indonesian community resident in Mecca was a medium through which knowledge about Wahhabism reached Indonesia, but the community itself appears to have remained virtually immune to Wahhabi influences. In reality there was little direct influence of Wahhabism on Indonesian reformist thought until the 1970s.

Insight magazine claimed in a January 2007 article that Barack Obama spent at least four years attending what is variously described as a "madrassa," a "radical Muslim religious school," or a "Muslim seminary" in Indonesia, but CNN has more recently reported that its own investigation found those claims to be false:

[R]eporting by CNN in Jakarta, Indonesia and Washington, D.C., shows the allegations that Obama attended a madrassa to be false. CNN dispatched Senior International Correspondent John Vause to Jakarta to investigate.

He visited the Basuki school, which Obama attended from 1969 to 1971.

"This is a public school. We don't focus on religion," Hardi Priyono, deputy headmaster of the Basuki school, told Vause. "In our daily lives, we try to respect religion, but we don't give preferential treatment."

Vause reported he saw boys and girls dressed in neat school uniforms playing outside the school, while teachers were dressed in Western-style clothes.

"I came here to Barack Obama's elementary school in Jakarta looking for what some are calling an Islamic madrassa ... like the ones that teach hate and violence in Pakistan and Afghanistan," Vause said on the 'Situation Room.' "I've been to those madrassas in Pakistan ... this school is nothing like that."

Vause also interviewed one of Obama's Basuki classmates, Bandug Winadijanto, who claims that not a lot has changed at the school since the two men were pupils. Insight reported that Obama's political opponents believed the school promoted Wahhabism, a fundamentalist form of Islam, "and are seeking to prove it."

"It's not (an) Islamic school. It's general," Winadijanto said. "There is a lot of Christians, Buddhists, also Confucian. ... So that's a mixed school."

The Associated Press reported similarly:

A spokesman for Indonesia's Ministry of Religious Affairs said claims that Obama studied at an Islamic school are groundless.

"SDN Menteng 1 is a public primary school that is open to people of all faiths," said the spokesman, Sutopo, who goes by only one name. "Moreover, he studied earlier at Fransiskus Assisi, which is clearly a Catholic school."

Obama later transferred to SDN Menteng 1 the elite, secular elementary school at the center of the controversy. The school is public but is very competitive and has exceptionally high standards. It is located in one of the most affluent parts of Jakarta and attracts mostly middle- to upper-class students, among them several of former dictator Suharto's grandchildren.

Indonesia is home to several of the most radical Islamic schools in Southeast Asia, some with alleged terrorist links. But Akmad Solichin [the vice principal at SDN Menteng 1], who proudly pointed to a photo of a young Barry Obama, as he was known, said his school is not one of them.

Moreover, a statement released by the Obama campaign affirmed that:

In the past week, many of you have read a now thoroughly-debunked story by Insight Magazine, owned by the Washington Times, which cites unnamed sources close to a political campaign that claim Senator Obama was enrolled for "at least four years" in an Indonesian "Madrassa". The article says the "sources" believe the Madrassa was "espousing Wahhabism," a form of radical Islam.

nolu_chan  posted on  2008-04-20   13:34:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Sam Houston (#7)

The diehard GOPers in the Deep South definitely have ZERO in common with most of the other people in this country. I would like to see this 20 percent contingent be the ONLY people conscripted and also TAXED to pay for these never-ending wars.

now that would be fair and equitable.

christine  posted on  2008-04-20   14:48:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#30)

7 years later, I can hardly think of a bad thing that Algore would have done that W didn't do, and probably did more of it.

You'd have all the same and a UN inspired pollution tax. The scheme to get us into the ME was hatched in the early 90s and well developed before 9-11, which would have happened on any president's watch.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-20   14:48:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#30)

7 years later, I can hardly think of a bad thing that Algore would have done that W didn't do, and probably did more of it. However, it is VERY unlikely that Algore would have invaded Iraq. In fact, 9/11 might have been prevented, given that it was W's transportation secretary that issued some stupid directive that threatened airlines with stiff fines if they searched more than 2 people of the same ethnicity boarding the same flight.

Gore would have done, or refrained from doing, just about the same things as Bush. All depends on what their controllers tell them.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-04-20   14:52:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: nolu_chan (#0)

If Obama were to quietly allow impeachment hearings on Cheney or Bush to proceed on such subjects as torture and signing statements,

i hope no one is holding their breath on that one. has there ever been an administration who has gone after the crimes of a previous administration? i think it's one smooth transition of one corrupt one to another.

christine  posted on  2008-04-20   14:55:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: christine (#38)

I wouldn't expect any of that to happen either, but I thought the article was an interesting read.

nolu_chan  posted on  2008-04-20   14:59:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: nolu_chan (#34)

I would not be quoting the biased "snopes" to prove your point...LOL.

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." © IndieTx

IndieTX  posted on  2008-04-20   15:02:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: nolu_chan (#0)

The 2008 Election Will Be Stolen

Oh God, is there no end to Groundhog Day?

I cling to hope of a 50 state repudiation of the traitorous, neocon Plutocrat Party

iconoclast  posted on  2008-04-20   15:03:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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