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Title: Clinton Needs Record Margins, Turnout to Catch Obama (Update1)
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a2IYkr2D8ZGk
Published: Apr 21, 2008
Author: Catherine Dodge and Kristin Jensen
Post Date: 2008-04-21 11:57:00 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 64
Comments: 5

April 21 (Bloomberg) -- To overtake Barack Obama in the nationwide popular vote, Hillary Clinton needs a bigger win in tomorrow's Pennsylvania primary than she has had in any major contest so far. And that's just for starters.

After more than 40 Democratic primaries and caucuses, Obama, the Illinois senator, leads Clinton by more than 800,000 votes. Even if the New York senator wins by more than 20 percentage points tomorrow -- a landslide few experts expect -- she would still have a hard time catching him.

Clinton needs ``blowout numbers,'' says Peter Fenn, a Democratic consultant who isn't affiliated with either campaign. ``The wheels would have to come off the Obama bus, and the engine would have to blow.''

A popular-vote victory is vital to Clinton's chances because she is likely to end the primaries still trailing Obama, 46, in the race for delegates to the Democratic National Convention.

According to an unofficial tally by the Associated Press, Obama currently leads by a margin of 1,645 to 1,504 among pledged delegates and those superdelegates -- elected and party officials who get an automatic vote on the nomination -- who have indicated a preference. It will take 2,025 delegates to win the nomination.

One or the Other

``I am a big believer that she needs either one, the popular or the delegate count,'' in order to make a case for why she should be the nominee, New Jersey Governor Jon Corzine, a Clinton backer, said in an interview.

Supporters say that winning more votes than Obama, plus her primary victories in populous states such as California and Ohio, would prove she'd be the stronger candidate against Republican John McCain in the November election.

``Popular vote matters,'' says Steve Grossman, a marketing executive and one of Clinton's top fundraisers. ``If there is an opportunity for her to pick up enough popular votes, that is a powerful calling card to the superdelegates to say the will of the people is a split decision.''

To earn that split decision, though, Clinton would need a 25-point victory in Pennsylvania, plus 20-point wins in later contests in West Virginia, Kentucky and Puerto Rico. Even that scenario assumes Clinton, 60, would break even in Indiana, North Carolina, South Dakota, Montana and Oregon -- a prospect that's not at all certain.

Record Turnout

More than just big margins, Clinton would need record voter turnout too. In Pennsylvania, she would need a turnout of 2 million, about half the state's registered Democrats; in the 2004 primary, about 800,000 voted. She would also need turnout to almost double in other states where she leads, and reach some 1 million in Puerto Rico, which is about how many Democratic- leaning voters went to the polls in a 2004 gubernatorial election. The territory, known for its high turnout, didn't have a presidential primary that year.

In Pennsylvania -- where a Bloomberg/Los Angeles Times poll gave her just a five-point margin last week -- Clinton would need to win a strong majority of the state's suburban voters, about half of male voters, three-quarters of the rural vote and probably 70 percent of white voters, says Chris Borick, director of the Muhlenberg College Institute of Public Opinion in Allentown. She would also have to erode Obama's strength among black voters and college students.

And she would have to do all this coming from a fundraising disadvantage. Obama began April with $42.5 million in cash for the primary elections, or about five times more than Clinton, according to figures released by their campaigns yesterday.

`Near-Perfect'

``The analogy I would put out there is she has to have a near-perfect game in baseball,'' says Borick. ``If she squeaks out a couple-point win, the math goes from bad to awful.''

To shrink Obama's 800,000 popular-vote margin, the Clinton campaign argues for the inclusion of votes cast in Michigan and Florida. Those two states lost their right to send delegates to the convention by scheduling their contests earlier in the year than party rules allowed.

Clinton and Obama agreed not to campaign in the two states, and Obama took his name off the ballot in Michigan. Clinton won both uncontested races, and now says they should count in the nationwide popular-vote calculations.

Florida voters ``expressed their views,'' Clinton told the Newspaper Association of America in Washington on April 15. ``They have had their vote certified by the Florida secretary of state; it's part of the popular vote.''

No Sale

There's almost no chance that party officials will give credence to those results. ``No one is going to buy the argument that you have to count Michigan and Florida,'' says Allan Lichtman, a professor of political history at American University in Washington. ``Those were not contested primaries.''

Instead, Clinton's slim prospects may rest on persuading enough of the 795 superdelegates that she has the better chance of defeating McCain. The superdelegates ``first and foremost vote for the candidate they think is ready to be president and win in November,'' says Doug Hattaway, a Clinton campaign adviser.

Polls on the general election don't support the case that Clinton would make the stronger national candidate; they show little difference in head-to-head match-ups between McCain, the 71-year-old Arizona senator and presumptive Republican nominee, and either Clinton or Obama.

National Surveys

According to the average of national surveys compiled by Pollster.com, McCain leads Clinton by 46 percent to 45 percent, and is tied with Obama at 45 percent. The results are within the margin of error.

Obama ``hasn't stumbled in a big way that makes him look unelectable in the fall,'' says Michael McDonald, a political scientist at George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia.

Still, says Fenn, Clinton will be looking to make the ``momentum argument'' if she can pull off victories in most of the remaining primaries -- arguing that would prove that hers is the campaign that is now ``clicking on all cylinders.''

That argument, he adds, is ``a hard one to make if you don't have the popular vote and you don't have the delegate count.''

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#1. To: christine (#0)

To earn that split decision, though, Clinton would need a 25-point victory in Pennsylvania, plus 20-point wins in later contests in West Virginia, Kentucky and Puerto Rico. Even that scenario assumes Clinton, 60, would break even in Indiana, North Carolina, South Dakota, Montana and Oregon -- a prospect that's not at all certain.

It will not happen.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-21   12:02:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: christine (#0)

When the dust settles, we will see who is left standing.

Regardless, any support given to any of the three is support for more war, more blood and more dying, I find this obscene and unacceptable.

Someone will say, "we won", that is true and Americans will have lost again.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-21   12:02:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Cynicom (#2)

I don’t oppose all wars. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of patriotism. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other arm-chair, weekend warriors in this Administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income – to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression.

That’s what I’m opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

en.wikisource.org/wiki/Barack_Obama's_Iraq_Speech

If they are all the same, then why did only one of the three say anything close to this? And he said before we invaded Iraq. Did the other two attack these people by name at all?

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-21   12:08:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: robin (#3)

All three are Senators, their records of voting are there for all to see.

NONE of the three have ever stood up in the Senate and said, no more war, bring the troops home.

Recall two years ago when democrats ran on an anti war policy? Their cry was give us control of congress and watch the changes. Well, they have control of congress and what has changed, nothing, we are still mired in a five year war, with no end in sight.

Any support for any of the three is a vote for more war and more dead Americans, that is obscene and I want no part of it.

Partisan politics is just that partisan. Let Obama say out loud, "I will bring all of the troops home within 90 days", and I will be the first to be in line to vote for him.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-21   12:29:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Cynicom (#4)

NONE of the three have ever stood up in the Senate and said, no more war, bring the troops home.

That's not true.

obama.senate.gov/press/07...ama_offers_pl_1/index.php
Obama Offers Plan to Stop Escalation of Iraq War, Begin Phased Redeployment of Troops Goal to Redeploy All Combat Brigades out of Iraq by March 31, 2008

Barack Obama's Plan

Judgment You Can Trust

As a candidate for the United States Senate in 2002, Obama put his political career on the line to oppose going to war in Iraq, and warned of “an occupation of undetermined length, with undetermined costs, and undetermined consequences.” Obama has been a consistent, principled and vocal opponent of the war in Iraq.

* In 2003 and 2004, he spoke out against the war on the campaign trail;
* In 2005, he called for a phased withdrawal of our troops;
* In 2006, he called for a timetable to remove our troops, a political solution within Iraq, and aggressive diplomacy with all of Iraq’s neighbors;
* In January 2007, he introduced legislation in the Senate to remove all of our combat troops from Iraq by March 2008.
* In September 2007, he laid out a detailed plan for how he will end the war as president.

Bringing Our Troops Home

Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz

robin  posted on  2008-04-21   12:37:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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