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Title: Christian leaders offering a confusing witness on torture
Source:
Brownwood Bulletin
URL Source: http://www.brownwoodbulletin.com/ar ... /doc4808a4d51fe1b285488324.txt
Published: Apr 18, 2008
Author: Britt Towery
Post Date: 2008-04-23 20:32:54 by Red Jones
Keywords: None
Views: 329
Comments: 12
Christian leaders offering a confusing witness on torture Published: Friday, April 18, 2008 8:54 AM CDT Dr. James Dobson, founder of Focus On The Family, has criticized Republican presidential candidate Senator John McCain’s opposition to the U.S. government’s use of torture. That’s right. Supporting torture appears to be an important issue for Dobson and many of the Christian Right. Dobson’s radio broadcasts, heard locally, have for years faithfully relayed information useful to families and the challenge of Christian living. Where does torture fit into such programs? In an exclusive with the Wall Street Journal published April 2, Dobson did not explain his approval of torture or how it relates to the Christian life. “How he contorts Christian theology to justify [this] is a puzzle,” writes Robert Parham of EthicsDaily.com. If this pro-torture stand was Dobson’s alone, there would be little attention paid to it. But last month an ethics professor, Daniel R. Heimback, at Southeastern Baptist Seminary, favors torture much as Dobson does. The Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) leaders also favor torture. A Baptist Press (BP) release reported that to oppose torture “threatens to undermine Christian moral witness in contemporary culture.” They went on to say that situation ethics necessitates that sometimes torture is the right thing to do. The National Association of Evangelicals (NAE) recently released a statement that the United States has crossed the “boundaries of what is legally and morally permissible” in the “war on terror.” (The paper’s title is “An Evangelical Declaration Against Torture: Protecting Human Rights in an Age of Terror.”) Heimback says such talk from the NAE undermines the Christian moral witness. Nothing could be more confusing to people in the pew than to have a professor of ethics speak out in favor of torture. Heimback is not for using “inherently evil methods, only using force on those involved in violence against us.” He is advocating lowering ourselves to the indecent level of those who torture. Torture them because they torture us. How does a Christian teacher ignore the overriding attitude of the New Testament and the value of “turning the other cheek”? Or, “love your enemies”? Supporting just wars are acceptable to many people, but torture of a suspected enemy goes beyond the pale. As a former Southern Baptist, I wonder what such remarks tell the world about Christian beliefs? Torture, as a method, has always been condemned by our government and churches until the “war on terror” began. Albert Mohler, president of another SBC seminary argues that torture cannot be condoned except in circumstances when it might be necessary. It is too seldom noted how the torturer is affected. The emotional trauma of those ordered to use torture is too often ignored. Horrors that are not easily erased. From the testimonies of men who have been ordered to torture many end up embarrassed and wracked by guilt. The more they contemplate what they did to other human beings, brings depression and often worse experiences. Governments for centuries have made claims that they do not torture. The “ticking time bomb” scenario of the TV series “24” exploits this excuse for torture. Under torture most people say what the torturer wants to hear. Another claim (read: excuse) is “it’s an emergency.” Egypt declared such an emergency in 1981. It is still in force, and torture is common. Another claim: “They don’t deserve better.” Many of our citizens use this excuse. The present administration says they are not prisoners of war and made up the term: “unlawful combatants.” The Geneva Conventions do not apply to the invented term. Recent memos reveal torture was approved higher up than sergeants and captains. “It is not really torture” is another attempt to deny our government tortures the enemy. It is simply “enhanced interrogation.” The Universal Declaration of Human Rights forbids both torture and cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment. Pain by any other name is still pain. Supreme Court Justice Brandeis shares this insight: “Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole of the people by its example. If the government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for the law and invites every man to become a law unto itself. It breeds anarchy. To declare that the end justifies the means would bring terrible retribution.” Britt Towery, native of Brownwood and resident of San Angelo, is an author and freelance writer. His e-mail is bet@
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#1. To: Red Jones (#0)
Hair shirts are the growth industry of the post-millineil era
And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot
I should've inserted into the title the qualifier of " (Some) " christian leaders. because believe me the vast majority of christian pastors & preachers & priests, etc do not endorse the torture practice. But that Dobson & some others do is sad. It looks like to me that the big mega- churches sometimes are 'under the influence'. Do you think this newspaper from a medium sized town in Texas that questions Bush's torture policy is owned by one of the 6 corporations that also own 95% of the media in the US? I think this one is likely an independent. Such newspapers are precious. The American view can actually get published there.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
chia seeds...blue bus...
And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot
those Republicans!! always the entreprenuers. I knew they were going to create jobs out of it! stupid Democrat nay-sayers. got some kool-aid brewing - be back later.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Don't ever make fun of chia 'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
My religion commands me to make fun of everything chia. Please don't oppress me.
And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot
You will bow down before chia! 'Individuals should not take responsibility for their own defense. That’s what the police are for. ... If I oppose individuals defending themselves, I have to support police defending them. I have to support a police state.”' Alan Dershowitz
I shant, not least of which against me own whereforall!
And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot
Here you are invited to discover why Rev. Dr. Sun Myung Moon was chosen by God and called by Jesus Christ to fulfill the mission of the Messiah, Savior and Lord of the Second Advent with the responsibility to establish the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. Together with his loving wife, Mrs. Hak Ja Moon, they are the True Parents of Heaven, Earth and all humanity who embody the true love of God. www.trueloveking.net/InSearchOfAnIdeal.wmv Both President Bush and his father have expressed their support for a group of mostly black church leaders that endorses the practice of throwing the cross into the trash – literally. www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42039 video.google.com/videopla...1358188&q=Rev+moon&hl=en" video.google.com/videopla...7149817&q=Rev+moon&hl=en" video.google.com/videopla...60204776&q=Rev+moon&hl=en Dr. Laura Schlessinger, the champion of morality, is going to bed with Sun Myung Moon, the anti-Christian cult leader. Moon is contributing an unknown amount of money to Dr. Laura so she will appear at the Washington Times 20th anniversary celebration on May 21. www.usasurvival.org/moonbyslaura.shtml Evangelical leaders, including many Southern Baptists, were unaware that the Jan. 19 Inaugural Prayer Luncheon for Unity and Renewal was sponsored and by Sun Myung Moon, founder of The Washington Times and the Unification Church. The prayer luncheon, held in Washington, featured more than 1,400 of the nation's leading ministers, civic and political leaders. A delegation of Southern Baptist leaders was in attendance, including SBC President James Merritt, Executive Committee President and Chief Executive Officer Morris H. Chapman, and Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission President Richard Land. Other Southern Baptists in attendance were Paul Pressler of Houston, Houston pastor Ed Young of Second Baptist Church and Prestonwood Baptist Church pastor Jack Graham from the Dallas area. "I was shocked to see that Sun Myung Moon was on the program and in essence, the host," Chapman said. "I was even more surprised on the way out of the banquet hall to be given a propaganda book on the Unification Church." Merritt, who delivered a tribute to evangelist Billy Graham, said he was stunned to learn that the event was sponsored by Moon's church. "We knew that it was going to be an interdenominational event, but we had no idea that the luncheon was hosted by the Moonies," said Merritt, pastor of an Atlanta-area church. "My invitation to the event came through Doug Wead." Wead, a former White House senior staffer for George Bush, was one of the organizers of the luncheon. In his invitation to Merritt, no reference was made of Moon's participation or sponsorship. Wead could not be reached for comment. www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=10187 The Rev. Sun Myung Moon's business empire, which includes the conservative Washington Times, paid millions of dollars to North Korea's communist leaders in the early 1990s when the hard-line government needed foreign currency to finance its weapons programs, according to U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency documents. www.consortiumnews.com/2000/101100a.html Affiliates of Sun Myung Moon, controversial leader of the Unification Church, have a history of supporting and courting conservative evangelicals. Now, according to published reports, financial support has been filtered to Liberty University from Moon-related enterprises. But Liberty founder Jerry Fallwell told Christianity Today that the source of the funds does not influence his ministry. "If the American Atheists Society or Saddam Hussein himself ever sent an unrestricted gift to any of my ministries," Falwell says, "be assured I will operate on Billy Sunday's philosophy: The Devil's had it long enough, and quickly cash the check." While Moon may not be the Devil, Christians contest Moon's claim that he is destined by God to complete an unfulfilled mission of Jesus. Moon claims Jesus failed as the Messiah because he did not wed and have children. The divorced 78-year-old Moon says he and his current wife, Hak Ja Han Moon, 53, are the "true parents of all humanity." $3.5 MILLION GIFT: In November, the Los Angeles Times reported that the Women's Federation for World Peace (WFWP), which is headed by Moon's wife, contributed $3.5 million to Christian Heritage Foundation (CHF) of Virginia for "educational purposes" in 1995. WFWP chair Susan Fefferman says Falwell spoke monthly to a group of professional women forging Japanese-American friendships. Fefferman says that in return WFWP provided scholarships for "many, many students" through the CHF. She told CT that Falwell "made it clear" that he represented CHF and the $3.5 million could be sent there on behalf of Liberty. CHF cofounder Daniel Reber says CHF solicited funds from WFWP in 1995 to help finance missions projects, not to service the school's indebtedness. "Not one penny ... www.ctlibrary.com/ct/1998/february9/8t2082.html On Jan. 28, 1995, a beaming Rev. Jerry Falwell told his Old Time Gospel Hour congregation news that seemed heaven sent. The televangelist hailed two Virginia businessmen as financial saviors of debt-ridden Liberty University, the fundamentalist Christian school that Falwell had made the crown jewel of his Religious Right empire. "They had to borrow money, hock their houses, hock everything," enthused Falwell. "Thank God for friends like Dan Reber and Jimmy Thomas." Falwell's congregation rose as one to applaud. The star of the moment was Daniel Reber, who was standing behind Falwell. Thomas was not present. Reber and Thomas earned Falwell's public gratitude by excusing the Lynchburg, Va., school of about one-half of its $73 million debt. In the late 1980s, that flood of red ink had forced Falwell to abandon his Moral Majority political organization and nearly drowned Liberty University in bankruptcy. Reber and Thomas came to Falwell's rescue in the nick of time. Their non-profit Christian Heritage Foundation of Forest, Va., snapped up a big chunk of Liberty's debt for $2.5 million, a fraction of its face value. Thousands of small religious investors who had bought church construction bonds through a Texas company were the big losers. But Falwell shed no tears. He told local reporters that the moment was "the greatest single day of financial advantage" in the school's history. Left unmentioned in the happy sermon was the identity of the bigger guardian angel who had been protecting Falwell's financial interests -- from a distance and without publicity. That secret benefactor was the Rev. Sun Myung Moon, the self-proclaimed South Korean messiah who is controversial with many fundamentalist Christians because of his bizarre Biblical interpretations and his brainwashing tactics that have torn thousands of young people from their families. Moon also has grown harshly anti-American in recent years. Covertly, Moon helped bail out Liberty University through one of his front groups which funneled $3.5 million to the Reber-Thomas Christian Heritage Foundation, the non-profit that had purchased the school's debt. I discovered this Moon-Falwell connection while looking for something else: how much Moon's Women's Federation for World Peace had paid former President George Bush for a series of speeches in Asia in 1995. I obtained the federation's Internal Revenue Service records but discovered that Bush's undisclosed speaking fee was buried in a line item of $13.6 million for conference expenses. www.jesus-is-savior.com/F...alwell_and_myung_moon.htm Matthew 7: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
thanks for all that great info in #9 and the Matthew 7 verses too. When I consider things carefully about the leaders of the various organized christian groups in our country I can't help but think that there has been a very serious attack by the enemy into their ranks. I think that the bible from Genesis on has descriptions of the end times when evil spiritual forces will rush forth and dominate incredibly. Consider the catholic church. How could all the pedophile scandals have happened and how could the bureaucracy protect them? What forces infiltrated that heirarchy? So many small bible colleges produced so many people to lead small churches all over the nation. And it seems the Scofield type interpretations were commonly taught. And who paid for those colleges? I wonder. The big mega-churches many of them have something wrong with them. They're very zionist. Many of them teach hatred of muslims. It takes money & organization to build those big mega-churches. I wonder who provided that. Why is there so much emphasis among many organized churches to teach about the early books of the Old Testament where Old Covenant is? And then no awareness that in Jeremiah 10 & 31 both a prophet tells us that god said that the Old Covenant was broken by the jews? So little emphasis on the New Testament like in Galatians 3:29 where it says the heirs to the covenant made with Abraham are the people who believe in Jesus, not the biological descendants of abraham. Why don't the christians know about Revelation 2:9 where we're warned about fake jews being with the synagogue of satan? Why don't christians know that Jesus had severe disagreements with jewish leaders and many harsh words for them, even telling them that his father would take away their blessings? Why are the christians so ignorant of all that, but so aware of the early books or Torah? At my parents' church which is main-line protestant there was a priest they had for 10 years that led them. He was born a jew, but converted. and he tore that church apart, the last month he was there the congregation split with half of them leaving. and then he left and took control of another protestant church in New Mexico leaving great financial problems. And he spent money so foolishly. He sewed so much dissension. and this was the 2'nd church he did that to, he did it in St. Louis before he came here. he was very zionist and pro-war which is unusual for a protestant preacher at an old main-line denomination. The tv preachers are all pro-Israel it seems and zionist. It takes money to get on tv. I wonder how they got there. I am impressed though that there are a lot of christian leaders in the old denominations including protestant, catholic & orthodox as well as some non- denominational leaders who are not swayed. and they still are aware and preach the basic christianity from the bible. The National council of churches which we know is much derided by 'conservatives' for many years has passed resolutions criticizing Israel strongly for not playing nice with the Palestinians. These are reasons why I'm so confident that James Dobson is very much in the minority with his support for torture. But the christian leaders who seem to be 'under the influence' are the ones on tv, the ones with money and the ones who get the public attention. It is good that we take strong efforts not to be deceived.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
Sometimes I ask myself why those who run the nation of Israel refuse to acknowledge why they continue to have problems. It is as if they pick out certain pieces of scripture and ignore others. Leviticus 26 1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God. 2 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD. 3 If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them; 4 Then I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit. 5 And your threshing shall reach unto the vintage, and the vintage shall reach unto the sowing time: and ye shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely. 6 And I will give peace in the land, and ye shall lie down, and none shall make you afraid: and I will rid evil beasts out of the land, neither shall the sword go through your land. 7 And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword. 8 And five of you shall chase an hundred, and an hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword. 9 For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you. 10 And ye shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new. 11 And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you. 12 And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people. 13 I am the LORD your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, that ye should not be their bondmen; and I have broken the bands of your yoke, and made you go upright. 14 But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments; 15 And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant: 16 I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. 17 And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you. 18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. 19 And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass: 20 And your strength shall be spent in vain: for your land shall not yield her increase, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruits. 21 And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins. 22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate. 23 And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me; 24 Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins. 25 And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy. 26 And when I have broken the staff of your bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver you your bread again by weight: and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied. 27 And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; 28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. 29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. 30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you. 31 And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours. 32 And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it. 33 And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste. 34 Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies’ land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths. 35 As long as it lieth desolate it shall rest; because it did not rest in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it. 36 And upon them that are left alive of you I will send a faintness into their hearts in the lands of their enemies; and the sound of a shaken leaf shall chase them; and they shall flee, as fleeing from a sword; and they shall fall when none pursueth. 37 And they shall fall one upon another, as it were before a sword, when none pursueth: and ye shall have no power to stand before your enemies. 38 And ye shall perish among the heathen, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up. 39 And they that are left of you shall pine away in their iniquity in your enemies’ lands; and also in the iniquities of their fathers shall they pine away with them. 40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me; 41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity: 42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land. 43 The land also shall be left of them, and shall enjoy her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them: and they shall accept of the punishment of their iniquity: because, even because they despised my judgments, and because their soul abhorred my statutes. 44 And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God. 45 But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD. 46 These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses. Unfortunately many Christian Zionists refuse to accept HIS Word too. JOHN HAGEE: “JESUS REJECTED TO THE LAST DETAIL THE ROLE OF MESSIAH IN WORD OR DEED” http://www.apprising.org/archive...7/10/john_hagee_ajes.html
thank you for that scripture. it is amazing how so many christians & jews do ignore it. Different individual jews have different views of course, but most jews don't want to have anything to do with the Torah. some of them will dismiss any quotes of the torah and tell you that their version of it is different. There are a few jews who are orthodox types I think who will be aware of this and knowledgeable, not many though. but the important thing is that in the early books it says repeatedly that the Old Covenant promises are conditional upon them following the law etc as your quote above shows very clearly. and so many of the christian preachers completely ignore this. and they ignore the other stuff I mentioned above. it is unbelievable.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
That’s right. Supporting torture appears to be an important issue for Dobson and many of the Christian Right.
#2. To: All (#0)
#3. To: robin (#1)
#4. To: Dakmar (#1)
Hair shirts are the growth industry
#5. To: Dakmar (#3)
#6. To: robin (#5)
#7. To: Dakmar (#6)
#8. To: robin (#7)
You will bow down before chia!
#9. To: Red Jones (#0)
#10. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#9)
#11. To: Red Jones (#10)
(Edited)
#12. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#11)
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