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Title: Faith of Our Fathers [Polygamy]
Source:
NYT
URL Source: http://egan.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/faith-of-our-fathers/
Published: Apr 24, 2008
Author: NYT
Post Date: 2008-04-24 02:04:43 by ...
Keywords: None
Views: 208
Comments: 16
Watching the polygamists in West Texas come into the sunlight of the 21st century has been jarring, making you feel like a voyeur of some weird historical episode. You see these 1870 Stepford wives with the braided buns and long dresses, these men with their low monotones and pious, seeming disregard for the law on child sex — and wonder: who opened the time capsule? But when Texas authorities removed 437 children earlier this month from the compound of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints they did more than give Larry King something to talk about between anorexia stories of the stars. They gave us all a glimpse into what a religion was like before it took on the patina of time — with the statues, murals and polished narratives. Religion has always been about faith and a certain degree of mythology. It’s pointless to argue whether the Red Sea actually parted, or if Jesus turned water into wine to keep a wedding party going, or if the freezing of the Mississippi River was one of the miracles that allowed early Mormons to flee persecution and build a theocracy in the desert. Faith is a moving thing; witness the throng in Yankee Stadium who came away in a fever of fellowship after listening to the Pope last weekend, or the 55,000 moved to practice random acts of compassion by the Dalai Lama at Qwest Field in Seattle two weeks ago. But religion can also be used as an excuse for awful behavior – from the torture of the Roman Catholic Inquisition, to beheadings by Jihadist killers, to the sexual manipulation of children by early Mormons and their latter-day sects. Mormonism is the most homegrown of American religions, and the fastest-growing in the Western Hemisphere. There are more Mormons in the United States than Presbyterians. The church has been vocal about denouncing the renegade Mormons in Texas, and quick to point out that it abandoned polygamy in 1890, as a condition of Utah’s statehood. For a long time, though, the church was at odds with basic American ideals, and not just because old guys sanctioned marital sex with dozens of teenage girls. What you see in Texas — in small part — is a look back at some of the behavior of Mormonism’s founding fathers. When Mitt Romney, in his December speech about his religion, said, “My faith is the faith of my fathers — I will be true to them and to my beliefs,” he was taking on a load of historical baggage. His faith was founded in 1830 by Joseph Smith Jr., an itinerant treasure-seeker from upstate New York who used a set of magic glasses to translate a lost scripture from God. His personality was infectious, the religion very approachable. It would have been just another Christian faith had not Smith let his libido lead him into trouble. Before he died at the hands of a mob, he married at least 33 women and girls; the youngest was 14, and was told she had to become Smith’s bedmate or risk eternal damnation. Smith was fortunate to find a religious cover for his desire. His polygamy “revelation” was put into The Doctrine and Covenants, one of three sacred texts of Mormonism. It’s still there – the word of God. And that’s why, to the people in the compound at Eldorado, the real heretics are in Salt Lake City. As his biographer, Fawn Brodie, wrote, Joseph Smith “could not rest until he had redefined the nature of sin and erected a stupendous theological edifice to support his new theories on marriage.” Smith was also a commander-in-chief of his own militia, and a candidate for President, running on a platform of “bringing the dominion of the Kingdom of God” over the United States. His successor, Brigham Young, married 57 women – a harem that attracted curious libertines like Sir Richard Burton to study the American social experiment. And when the church set up a huge polygamous theocracy in the West, President James Buchanan was forced in the 1850s to send an army of 2,500 – nearly one-sixth of American forces – to uphold the law. The church did not give up its sexual practices without a long fight. As late as 1880, as Jon Krakauer notes in his book “Under the Banner of Heaven,” Mormon leaders preached that polygamy was above the laws of the land. The church’s then-supreme leader, John Taylor, said that polygamy “has been handed down directly from God. The United States cannot abolish it.” Fast forward to this century, when the polygamist group makes the same argument at their West Texas compound and at their earlier one in Colorado City, on the Utah-Arizona border. I was at that Colorado City compound, twice in the last four years. It spooked me: the gnarly old men and their child brides, the creepy guards in their pickup trucks, the sing-songy women tending to a dozen children in houses the size of a Motel 6. They were ripping off the state, living on welfare and food stamps, even as they defied civil authorities. In Colorado City, I spent time with DeLoy Bateman, a high school science teacher, who told of losing his daughter after church authorities ordered her to leave her husband and marry her father-in-law – a man twice her age. And despite the best efforts of the wealthy, modern Mormon church to leave a big part of its past behind, some Mormons still support the defiance of modern-day polygamist leaders, judging by the comments of Saints who are appalled by the breakup of the compound in Texas. “Back then, we were the ones in the compound,” wrote Guy Murray, a Mormon lawyer who writes a blog on his faith. He should be applauded for his honesty. But I’m not sure I’d want to be holding that baton of belief, passed through years. Sometimes, the faith of our fathers is better left to the revisionists.
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#1. To: ... (#0)
These "prophets" sound a little like Mohammed. "Muhammed was an Arab man, who lived 1400 years ago. To realize his desire to rule over people, and satisfy his above-average sexual desires, he lied to everyone that he was receiving revelations from God. Comparing to his surrounding people who were immoral enough to bury their infant daughers, he was a relatively clever guy, intelligent, but evil to the core. Studying Islam almost makes one think Mohammed was the devil himself which he kept talking of. From a muslim perspective, Mohammed was a kind truthful man, and the true last prophet of God. Read the Quran and Hadith and decide for yourself. This is all there is to him. He was an evil liar and a violent man with a larger than usual sexual appetite. He was a pedophile, because when he was 54 years old, he married a 9 year old little girl. He was old enough to be her grandfather. SOURCE: APOSTATES OF ISLAM http://www.apostatesofislam.com/mohammed.htm
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition "Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." © IndieTx This evil "religion," like Islam, should have been stomped out of existence at the beginning.
The Romans felt the same about Christianity even though the Christians weren't breaking real laws, but primarily wouldn't sacrifice to the false gods of Rome. At times your sensibilities seem normal, but the response above is teeming with ignorance. Most religions are anathema as far as I'm concerned. I hate almost all of them equally because of the hypocrisy that generally resides within them. Again, I am not directly familiar with the actions within these churches and cannot judge them. We're supposed to enjoy freedom of religion in America. If there is criminal activity within a church a proper investigation is warranted, not a military raid complete with tanks and machine guns.
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)
I'm watching you Turtle. Don't think I'm not.
Much evil can usually be ascribed to the assholes that acclimate to leadership in any organization. That's what's wrong with organizations in general, men corrupt them. Much of scripture deals with multiple wives, concubines and maid servants. Mistresses and affairs amongst the secular public have become popularized by the media, and are typically ignored or even condoned. [Like JFK or Clinton]. Any group this large might have some problems but I'll bet this group was found to be drug free, free of alcoholics, free of pornography, and somewhat detached from evils most of our society thinks are normal. The article posted here attempts to judge these people without the benefit of facts related to themselves. It attempts to create guilt by association, or present former members as "a type of case law" to insinuate guilt. How about due process ?
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)
Perhaps I could create a "new" religion (like Scientology) that is tax deductable (free mansion) and which advocates sex with multiple teenage girls (heart attack)....LOL. /sar I am beginning to think these nighttime raiders were just jealous. We already know that Kook faked the phone call. What's the infatuation with tanks a la Waco. Perhaps it is "larger penis envy" by the keystone coppers?
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition "Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." © IndieTx The family unit stands in defiance of tyranny. They must destroy it in order to rule the masses. Practice and acclimation to police state activity is being played out with no regard for the cost, due process or for that matter any Constitutional requirement. This is Perry's Bilderberg initiation.
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)
The Church of The United States is the most vile church on earth. It has high priests that sacrifice humans by the thousands, if not millions. It steals the wealth of its 300 million congregation, breaks up families, licenses drug dealers, arms distributors, loan sharks, counterfeiters, war profiteers and is made up of a wide variety of perverts, paedophiles, adulterers and murderers. This United States Church authorizes the wholesale murder of people thousands of miles away, drops bombs on babies and cajoles others into doing the same. I find it hypocritical to the extreme and an attack upon my intelligence when this collection of murdering scum has the audacity to accuse anyone else of wrong doing. Yet, most Americans tithe to this monster church every week.
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)
Please help me to understand this. Are most family units in America not tolerated? Is the State treating this sect like this because they actually did break the law, that is, commit 'polygamy' or 'sex with minors'?
The family unit is continually under attack by the feds. Taxation is their primary method of dividing families by forcing two parents to work in order to make one living ... after taxes. When you see these assholes printing money by the billions to bail out wealthy bankers that already profited from their criminal lending practices, while ignoring the plight of the over worked parents forced to deprive their children of parenting direction, then you'll begin to see that the intent is to destroy the family unit. The State is treating this case as a precedent setting abuse of the Constitution in order to acclimate the rest of the country to what's coming. You have no rights, we don't need a valid warrant, we can do whatever we want without regard to outdated notions, constitutions or even reasonableness. Sit down and shut the fuck up, your children are ours !
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)
Very well said as usual, thank you for helping to put that in perspective.
Amen to that! I think it is a supreme irony that “the State” gets all worked up over a perfectly peaceful group like that, but allows an insanely criminal and subversive sect called Zionists free reign over our once great country. When are we going to declare war on ZOG?
The war is in progress against America. The sooner we realize it the better.
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)
Have you noticed how much TheStateInc loves to get in that "child molester" accusation with these things... and you're on target: Acclimation to PoliceState equipment and tactics. You're also right on target about the assault on the family. The parents, both kids and the dog must work to get by (taxed to death and regulated to death) and the family is neglected. Those who attempt to circumvent TheSystem which is assaulting them will find themselves raided by jackboots. Many techniques used by TheStateInc in The Turner Diaries and 1984 are well under way and have been for some time.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition "Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." © IndieTx
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
Only if wifie # 1, 2, 3, or 4 made them !!!
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)
It would have been just another Christian faith had not Smith let his libido lead him into trouble. Before he died at the hands of a mob, he married at least 33 women and girls; the youngest was 14, and was told she had to become Smith’s bedmate or risk eternal damnation.
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#2. To: ... (#0)
#3. To: Turtle (#2)
This evil "religion," like Islam, should have been stomped out of existence at the beginning.
#4. To: Turtle (#2)
"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." ~ Mahatma Ghandi
#5. To: ... (#0)
#6. To: noone222 (#3)
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#7. To: IndieTX (#6)
What's the infatuation with tanks a la Waco. Perhaps it is "larger penis envy" by the keystone coppers?
#8. To: IndieTX (#6)
(Edited)
Perhaps I could create a "new" religion
#9. To: noone222, IndieTX (#7)
The family unit stands in defiance of tyranny. They must destroy it in order to rule the masses.
"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." ~ Mahatma Ghandi
#10. To: wudidiz (#9)
#11. To: noone222 (#10)
"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." ~ Mahatma Ghandi
#12. To: noone222 (#5)
Any group this large might have some problems but I'll bet this group was found to be drug free, free of alcoholics, free of pornography, and somewhat detached from evils most of our society thinks are normal.
#13. To: karelian (#12)
When are we going to declare war on ZOG?
#14. To: noone222 (#7)
(Edited)
"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of it's very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx
#15. To: ... (#0)
#16. To: ghostdogtxn (#15)
Didn't the patriarchs of the Old Testament frequently take on more than one wife?
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