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(s)Elections
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Title: John McCain was born in Panama Canal Zone
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: May 1, 2008
Author: me
Post Date: 2008-05-01 08:58:40 by Itisa1mosttoolate
Keywords: None
Views: 237
Comments: 13

The Constitution says the Presidential requirements call for someone to be born in the United States.

Is this legal?

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  

#1. To: All (#0)

Of course I meant McCain. I find it ironic that the Panama ports are run by the Chinese now and will be used to bring in products from China and trucked up the 4 hundred yard wide super highway.

"You can not save the Constitution by destroying it."

Itisa1mosttoolate  posted on  2008-05-01   9:14:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

They've decided since he was born on a US military base, that's good enough.

Lod  posted on  2008-05-01   9:22:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

They have also decided that Ron Paul was born on the moon and he still lives there.

"You can not save the Constitution by destroying it."

Itisa1mosttoolate  posted on  2008-05-01   9:45:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

They've decided since he was born on a US military base, that's good enough.

A child born to Americans who are in the military while overseas doesn't mean he isn't an natural born American Citizen.

If that was the case you would have to say that illegal Mexicans born in this country have more of a claim then a Kid born to American parents overseas.

Old Friend  posted on  2008-05-01   10:16:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Yep, he's legal. He could possibly be allowed dual-citizenship with the country he was born in, but I don't know the laws of Panama. France for example, "Once a Frenchman, always a Frenchman!"; if you are born in France you are a citizen of France.

under French law one cannot renounce French citizenship - once a Frenchman, always a Frenchman.

“President Bush has talked about our staying in Iraq for 50 years,” “Maybe a hundred ... ... that’d be fine with me,” McCain responds
Hillary: "I want the Iranians to know that if I'm the president, we will attack Iran in the next 10 years, during which they might foolishly consider launching an attack on Israel, we would be able to totally obliterate them."

robin  posted on  2008-05-01   10:44:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

They've decided since he was born on a US military base, that's good enough.

since the Constitution is just a g.d. piece of paper presided over by a pack of Pharisees, that is essentially correct; otherwise a Constitutional Amendment ratified by the States would be in order.

A child born to Americans who are in the military while overseas doesn't mean he isn't an natural born American Citizen.

since the fraudulent 14th Amendment, yes it does.

If that was the case you would have to say that illegal Mexicans born in this country have more of a claim then a Kid born to American parents overseas.

as long as they were born in one of the 50 states, and not in DC, they do.

www.freedom4um.com/cgi-bi...gi?ArtNum=74758&Disp=8#C8

"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2008-05-01   13:29:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Mrs.L was born in Australia while her AirForce dad was doing a tour of duty there. When she became eighteen, she had to declare which country she wished to be a citizen of.

Lod  posted on  2008-05-01   13:48:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The Constitution says the Presidential requirements call for someone to be born in the United States.

Inaccurate.

The constitution specifies natural born citizen, and not born in the United States.

From: Article II

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.

The 14th Amendment is irrelevant. It contains no exclusivity clause. It makes citizenship inclusive of anyone born in the U.S. and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, but does not exclude someone in the birth status of John McCain.

tinyurl.com/32x7ba

TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1401

§ 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;

(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;

(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;

(d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;

(e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person;

(f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States;

(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person

(A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or

(B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and

(h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.

nolu_chan  posted on  2008-05-01   18:20:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions

Panama WAS NOT a possession of the United States. The US paid Panama a rental fee to use the canal.

"You can not save the Constitution by destroying it."

Itisa1mosttoolate  posted on  2008-05-01   18:36:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

[8 USC 1401(c)] (c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;

[Itisa1mosttoolate] Panama WAS NOT a possession of the United States.

Yes, and the statute refers to a "person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions" where at least one of the parents has ever had residence in the U.S. or any outlying possession prior to the birth.

But.... read the following article for tomorrow's WaPo which brings up the issue that there is no birth certificate on file in the register in Panama or the Consular Service. That's another whole can of worms.

tinyurl.com/6bdm6m

McCain's Birth Abroad Stirs Legal Debate
His Eligibility for Presidency Is Questioned

By Michael Dobbs
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 2, 2008; Page A06

The Senate has unanimously declared John McCain a natural-born citizen, eligible to be president of the United States.

That is the good news for the presumptive Republican nominee, who was born nearly 72 years ago in a military hospital in the Panama Canal Zone, then under U.S. jurisdiction. The bad news is that the nonbinding Senate resolution passed Wednesday night is simply an opinion that has little bearing on an arcane constitutional debate that has preoccupied legal scholars for many weeks.

Article II of the Constitution states that "no person except a natural born citizen . . . shall be eligible to the office of president." The problem is that the Founding Fathers never defined exactly what they meant by "natural born citizen," and the matter has never been fully tested in court. At least three pending cases are challenging McCain's right to be sworn in as president.

Jurists on both sides of the political divide, consulted by the McCain campaign, insist that the issue is clear-cut. They argue that McCain is a natural-born citizen because the United States held sovereignty over the Panama Canal Zone at the time of his birth, on Aug. 29, 1936; because he was born on a U.S. military base; and because his parents were U.S. citizens.

But Sarah H. Duggin, an associate law professor at Catholic University who has studied the "natural born" issue in detail, said the question is "not so simple." While she said McCain would probably prevail in a determined legal challenge to his eligibility to be president, she added that the matter can be fully resolved only by a constitutional amendment or a Supreme Court decision.

"The Constitution is ambiguous," Duggin said. "The McCain side has some really good arguments, but ultimately there has never been any real resolution of this issue. Congress cannot legislatively change the meaning of the Constitution."

Senators sympathetic to McCain's position, including Democrats Claire McCaskill (Mo.) and Patrick J. Leahy (Vt.), dropped an earlier attempt to quell the eligibility controversy with legislation. McCaskill acknowledged in an interview that there is "no way" to completely resolve the question short of a constitutional amendment, a cumbersome process which could not be concluded before November.

She described the nonbinding resolution, which she sponsored, as "the quickest, clearest and most efficient" way for the Senate to send a message to the courts that McCain has the right to be president.

One person who disagrees with that premise is New Hampshire resident Fred Hollander, who has filed a suit in U.S. District Court claiming that the Republican candidate is "not a natural born citizen." In an attempt to prove his argument, the 49-year-old computer programmer filed a subpoena last month seeking McCain's birth certificate.

The Department of Homeland Security, which oversees citizenship services, declined to hand over copies of the document, saying the subpoena was improperly served.

In his autobiography, "Faith of My Fathers," McCain writes that he was born "in the Canal Zone" at the U.S. Naval Air Station in Coco Solo, which was under the command of his grandfather, John S. McCain Sr. The senator's father, John S. McCain Jr., was an executive officer on a submarine, also based in Coco Solo. His mother, Roberta McCain, now 96, has vivid memories of lying in bed listening to raucous celebrations of her son's birth from the nearby officers' club.

The birth was announced two days later in the English-language Panamanian American newspaper. A senior official of the McCain campaign showed a reporter a copy of the senator's birth certificate issued by Canal Zone health authorities, recording his birth in the Coco Solo "family hospital."

Curiously enough, there is no record of McCain's birth in the Panama Canal Zone Health Department's bound birth registers, which are publicly available at the National Archives in College Park. A search of the "Child Born Abroad" records of the U.S. consular service for August 1936 included many U.S. citizens born in the Canal Zone but did not turn up any mention of John McCain.

Possible discrepancies in the bureaucratic paperwork are of little concern to Laurence Tribe, a Harvard law professor who looked into the case at the McCain campaign's request. Tribe examined the issue along with Theodore B. Olson, his onetime nemesis in the 2000 Supreme Court case Bush v. Gore.

Tribe said it would be "astonishing if the recordkeeping practices of Canal Zone [officials] could have any bearing on eligibility for the U.S. presidency."

The key constitutional issue is whether the Canal Zone was part of the United States at the time of McCain's birth. In a memorandum, Tribe and Olson cite a 1986 Supreme Court ruling stating that the United States "exercised sovereignty" over the 10-mile-wide area between 1904 and 1979, when it was handed back to the Panamanians. Hollander and others challenging McCain's eligibility argue that the zone was never part of the United States.

Duggin, the constitutional law scholar, said the sovereignty question is "more complex" than Olson and Tribe concede. People born in some U.S. territories, such as American Samoa, are not recognized as citizens of the United States.

According to a State Department manual, U.S. military installations abroad cannot be considered "part of the United States" and "A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth." Tribe said the manual is an "opinion" with no legal status.

There are few precedents for someone born outside the 50 states running for president, let alone becoming president. The best example the McCain camp has been able to come up with is Vice President Charles Curtis, who served under President Herbert Hoover and was born in the territory of Kansas in 1860, a year before it became a state. The 12th Amendment requires that vice presidents possess the same qualifications as presidents.

Several prominent politicians have run for the presidency without having been born in the United States, including Barry Goldwater, who was born in the territory of Arizona in 1909, three years before it became a state. Mitt Romney's father, George Romney, ran in 1968, even though he was born in Mexico. Since neither Goldwater nor Romney won the presidency, the "natural born" clause was never tested.

Duggin believes that Hollander and the other plaintiffs are likely to have a hard time establishing their own eligibility, or legal standing, to challenge McCain. She said it will be difficult for them to demonstrate that they have been "disenfranchised" because of the mere presence on the ballot of a candidate with debatable constitutional qualifications.

But she said the matter should be sorted out before the election, rather than afterward: "Imagine what would happen if the courts were to overturn an election simply based on eligibility. It would be a disaster. After what happened in 2000, people would completely lose faith in the electoral process."

nolu_chan  posted on  2008-05-02   0:06:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

..... and the SENATE 'ruled', after "IMPEACHMENT", THAT KLINTON WAS NOT GUILTY

so much for Senate 'rulings'

"You can not save the Constitution by destroying it."

Itisa1mosttoolate  posted on  2008-05-02   5:50:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I agree with you on this one chan. The U.S code you sited is irrelevant though. The words of the constitution trump U.S. Code. Most U.S. Code is unconstitutional.

Old Friend  posted on  2008-05-02   7:35:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Mrs.L was born in Australia while her AirForce dad was doing a tour of duty there. When she became eighteen, she had to declare which country she wished to be a citizen of.

loddy, if one were not born in this COUNTRY, one cannot choose to be a Citizen of this COUNTRY. [The COUNTRY is AMERICA, consisting of the 50 FORMERLY SOVEREIGN STATES.] One can only choose to be a citizen [small "c"] OF AND UNDER THE JURISDICTION OF THE JEWISH CORPORATION KNOWN AS THE UNITED STATES....you know the one, the one that bears the number of the beast:

USAvsUS--US Symbolism--on $1 Symbolism on $1 The Great Seal. Many companies use the pyramid within their ... The Number of the Beast - 666. The letters on the base of the Illuminati ... www.gemworld.com/us-symbol-1dol.html

USAvsUS--US Symbolism--on $1 But, the circle also is utilized as a symbol of the All-Seeing Eye. Remember the All-Seeing Eye atop the pyramid on the corporate U.S. One-Dollar bill? ... www.gemworld.com/US-Symbol-DC.html

The ultimate way one will be a Citizen of this Country is via John 10:1, whole chapter/Ezekiel 34:11-14, whole chapter.

"Before the Lord come, He will bring to light the hidden things of darkness...." Maybe that is where this is finally heading. The truth will make us free.

more to follow.....

===================

"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2008-05-02   11:08:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

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