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Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: 'An Evangelical Manifesto' criticizes politics of faith
Source: CNN
URL Source: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/02/evangelicals.ap/index.html
Published: May 2, 2008
Author: Associated Press
Post Date: 2008-05-04 03:36:59 by robin
Keywords: None
Views: 312
Comments: 22

'An Evangelical Manifesto' criticizes politics of faith

(AP) -- Conservative Christian leaders who believe the word "evangelical" has lost its religious meaning plan to release a starkly self-critical document saying the movement has become too political and has diminished the Gospel through its approach to the culture wars.

The statement, called "An Evangelical Manifesto," condemns Christians on the right and left for using faith to express political views without regard to the truth of the Bible, according to a draft of the document obtained Friday by The Associated Press.

"That way faith loses its independence, Christians become 'useful idiots' for one political party or another, and the Christian faith becomes an ideology," according to the draft.

The declaration, scheduled to be released Wednesday in Washington, encourages Christians to be politically engaged and uphold teachings such as traditional marriage. But the drafters say evangelicals have often expressed "truth without love," helping create a backlash against religion during a "generation of culture warring."

"All too often we have attacked the evils and injustices of others," the statement says, "while we have condoned our own sins." It argues, "we must reform our own behavior."

The document is the latest chapter in the debate among conservative Christians about their role in public life. Most veteran leaders believe the focus should remain on abortion and marriage, while other evangelicals -- especially in the younger generation -- are pushing for a broader agenda. The manifesto sides with those seeking a wide-range of concerns beyond "single-issue politics."

Among the signers of the manifesto are Os Guiness, a well-known evangelical author and speaker, and Richard Mouw, president of Fuller Theological Seminary, a leading evangelical school in Pasadena, California. Organizers declined to comment until the final document is released.

They say more than 80 evangelicals have signed the statement, although only a few names have been released. A. Larry Ross, spokesman for the authors, said the theologians and Christian leaders involved are seeking to "go back to the root theological meaning of the term evangelical."

Some champions of traditional culture war issues are not among the supporters.

Richard Land, head of the public policy arm for the Southern Baptist Convention, said through a spokeswoman that he has not seen the document and was not asked to sign it.

James Dobson, the influential founder of Focus on the Family, a Christian group in Colorado Springs, Colorado, did not sign the document, said Gary Schneeberger, a Dobson spokesman. Schneeberger would not say whether Dobson had read the manifesto or had been asked to sign on.

Phil Burress, an Ohio activist who networks with national evangelical leaders, said that if high-profile evangelical leaders such as Dobson and Land don't support the document, "it's like throwing a pebble in the ocean" and will carry no weight.

But the drafters hope they can start a movement among evangelicals to reflect and act on the document. "We must find a new understanding of our place in public life," the drafters wrote.

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#1. To: robin, all (#0) (Edited)

...movement has become too political and has diminished the Gospel through its approach to the culture wars.

I disagree with the entire premise of the article.

The "evangelical movement" has turned the gospel inside out and upside down, by being downright deceptive about what scripture actually teaches, not because they are involved in "culture wars". I do not limit this to those wolves on TBN. Everyone does it. Except for J Vernon McGee (sp?). He actually reads the scripture and goes thru the Bible in 5 years. But he is dead now, and I didn't agree with all of his interpretations either.

The "leaders" do not teach scripture. They do teach traditions and interpretations. Listen to them. Instead of letting the Word speak for itself, they filter it thru their denominations doctrines and give that interpretation.

I spend a fair amount of time listening to "christian talk radio" just to see what they are going to say. Many times I have heard them say that scripture says something, and scripture does not say that. They blatantly lie, they know better. They spend years in college in order to learn their denominations doctrines (lies), and people believe that these college boys must know what they are talking about, since they have all that education.

Then I get angry, and I change the station.

The "culture war" has nothing to do with it. They are corrupt to the core, and to limit it all to their political actions is nonsense. It's a smokescreen.

------They may look intimidating, that's by design; but they aren't bulletproof. -------

PSUSA  posted on  2008-05-04   5:17:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: PSUSA (#1)

The "leaders" do not teach scripture. They do teach traditions and interpretations.

The largest "evangelical movement" was headed by Jerry Farewell I caught this article by his son Jonathon the next generation if you will....it's titled "Our Role: Blessing Israel"...he talks about speaking at Seventh Annual Israel Solidarity Event held at the Israeli Embassy in Washington, D.C....

www.theconservativevoice.com/article/32028.html

At the bottom of his piece he says

In Genesis 12, God told Abraham that He would bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel. As we approach the 60th anniversary of the rebirth of the State of Israel, let us make sure that we are doing everything we can to bless Israel. We must realize that God’s statement to Israel did not give us the benefit for interpretation or adjustment. His directive was clear: bless Israel.

Every Wednesday I speak with Charles Colson who is trying to educate those who will listen that this interpretation is not only wrong but is the main cause for Americas misguided support of Israel....here is his take on Genesis 12

The State of Israel's legal claims to Arab lands are based on the United Nations Partitioning Agreement of 1947, which gave the Jews only a fraction of the land they have since occupied by force. But when this author went to Israel and asked various Israelis where they got the right to occupy Palestine, each invariably said words to the effect that "God gave it to us." This interpretation of Hebrew scripture stems from the book of Genesis and is called the "Abrahamic Covenant". It is repeated several times and begins with God's promise to a man called Abraham who was eventually to become the grandfather of a man called "Israel:"

"[2] AND I WILL MAKE OF THEE A GREAT NATION, AND I WILL BLESS THEE, AND MAKE THY NAME GREAT; AND THOU SHALL BE A BLESSING:"

"[3] AND I WILL BLESS THEM THAT BLESS THEE, AND CURSE HIM THAT CURSETH THEE: AND IN THEE SHALL ALL FAMILIES OF THE EARTH BE BLESSED." Genesis 12:3, King James Edition.

It is upon this promise to a single person that modern Israeli Zionists base their claims to what amounts to the entire Mid-East. Its logic is roughly the equivalent of someone claiming to be the heir to the John Paul Getty estate because the great man had once sent a letter to someone's cousin seven times removed containing the salutation "wishing you my very best." In "Sherry's War," We Hold These Truths provides a common sense discussion of the Abrahamic Covenant and how millions of Christians are taught to misunderstand it.

christianparty.net/scofield.htm

robnoel  posted on  2008-05-04   9:20:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: robnoel (#2)

a starkly self-critical document saying the movement has become too political and has diminished the Gospel through its approach to the culture wars.

The statement, called "An Evangelical Manifesto," condemns Christians on the right and left for using faith to express political views without regard to the truth of the Bible

You disagree with this? Why?

Falwell is an example of why this statement was ever necessary. He and other evangelical pastors decided to preach politics from the pulpit, even printing pamphlets telling their congregation how to vote. And they were told to vote for only the most pro-Israeli politicians, according to their interpretation of eschatology.

"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

robin  posted on  2008-05-04   10:26:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: robin (#3)

Not sure I understand your question

robnoel  posted on  2008-05-04   10:29:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: PSUSA, robnoel (#4)

Sorry, it was PSUSA who disagreed with the premise of the article.

The article is about a declaration being made by some Christians about how the following has become true of many Christians:

"That way faith loses its independence, Christians become 'useful idiots' for one political party or another, and the Christian faith becomes an ideology," according to the draft.

And I'm just wondering how anyone could disagree with this.

"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

robin  posted on  2008-05-04   10:36:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: robin (#5)

Not speaking for PSUSA but the article has been written with a evangelical left perspective reason for Dobson not joining in however the evangelical right are equal to the left in delusion hence PSUSA comment.... The "culture war" has nothing to do with it. They are corrupt to the core, and to limit it all to their political actions is nonsense. It's a smokescreen.IMHO!

robnoel  posted on  2008-05-04   11:05:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: robin (#5)

And I'm just wondering how anyone could disagree with this.

My bad. I should have been more clear.

I said it was a smokescreen.

It's not that I disagree with the assertion that they are useful idiots, it's that it doesn't nearly go far enough.

It's like someone dying of cancer, but being worried about an infected paper cut.

It's like me being a murderer, and saying "At least I am not a jaywalker".

The entire churchianity system is corrupt, and when was the last time a corrupt organization was able to correct itself? That, imo, is what they are trying to do, correct themselves.

Christians are not told to fix the system from within, we are COMMANDED to leave that system.

Rev 18 1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

And

1 Peter 4 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

and

2 Timothy 3 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

So much for any "last days revival".

------They may look intimidating, that's by design; but they aren't bulletproof. -------

PSUSA  posted on  2008-05-04   11:07:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: robnoel, PSUSA (#6)

"That way faith loses its independence, Christians become 'useful idiots' for one political party or another, and the Christian faith becomes an ideology," according to the draft.

How is this just left sided?

Or this?

The document is the latest chapter in the debate among conservative Christians about their role in public life. Most veteran leaders believe the focus should remain on abortion and marriage, while other evangelicals -- especially in the younger generation -- are pushing for a broader agenda. The manifesto sides with those seeking a wide-range of concerns beyond "single-issue politics."

"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

robin  posted on  2008-05-04   11:09:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: PSUSA, robnoel (#7)

It's not that I disagree with the assertion that they are useful idiots, it's that it doesn't nearly go far enough.

Oh, I see what you mean, and you have a point. Maybe it's just a starting point?

"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

robin  posted on  2008-05-04   11:10:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: robin (#9)

Maybe it's just a starting point?

Not in my opinion. Not when we are explicitly told that things will get worse and worse. It doesnt say things will get better because the church suddenly repents and a great revival comes, or gets better for any other reason.

It doesn't get better until He comes back. We just need to hold on to what we have, like the parable of the virgins in Mat 25 1-13

------They may look intimidating, that's by design; but they aren't bulletproof. -------

PSUSA  posted on  2008-05-04   11:24:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: robin (#9)

The best way to understand where any "Evangelical" is coming from is to know from which bible they preach if its "Scofield Reference Bible" you have your answer

robnoel  posted on  2008-05-04   11:25:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: PSUSA, robnoel (#10)

But repentance is totally scriptural. And we are admonished to pray "that it may go well". Only the Father knows the hour. So assuming it will just get "worse and worse" may become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

robin  posted on  2008-05-04   11:35:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: robnoel, PSUSA (#11)

"Scofield Reference Bible"

I have two copies, having been raised a Baptist with generational ties.

Certainly Darbyism has a lot to answer for, along with Scofield.

"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

robin  posted on  2008-05-04   11:38:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: robin (#12)

According to my dictionary Evangelical as a group or churches came into existence in 1532, well before the Scofield Reference Bible and the Electric Jew. Christian Zionist televangelists who morph Christ into a murdering Jew are the favorites of the Electric Jew while the Schofield Bible can be found in most Evangelical churches. Modern Jews, i.e. Zionists. have succeeded in turning the Evangelical movement into a refuge for spiritual cripples, believers in Jewish supremacy

Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.

Zoroaster  posted on  2008-05-04   12:08:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Zoroaster (#14) (Edited)

"Darbyism" is an old-fashioned term for the modern school of Bible prophecy interpretation called "dispensational premillennialism." It comes from the Nineteenth Century English clergyman, John Nelson Darby, who first popularized many of the specific views on Bible prophecy that are now being taught by dispensationalists. The distinguishing and most controversial features in modern dispensational premillennialism are: (1) belief in a secret pre- seven year tribulation rapture of the Church, and (2) insistence on maintaining a careful distinction between God's purpose for national Israel, and God's purpose for the Church, in the divine plan of the ages--a distinction which many old-school Wesleyan theologians believed to be based on a truncated understanding of the unifying message of Scripture, new covenant holiness.

The end times theology of the rapture is only about 160 years old, invented by Darby and then heavily edited into the references of the Scofield Reference Bible.

Evangelism is not new to Christianity, it is one of its tenets "Go ye into all the world...".

"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

robin  posted on  2008-05-04   12:11:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: robin (#0)

I read that the Bible is a pile of petrified dogshit.

nobody  posted on  2008-05-04   12:24:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: robin (#15)

The All-White Elephant in the Room (McCain-Hagee) Source: NY Times www.nytimes.com/2008/05/04/opinion/04rich.html? _r=2&oref=slogin&ref=opinion&pagewanted=print&

Author: Frank Rich Post Date: 2008-05-04 12:01:32 by GO65

BORED by those endless replays of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright? If so, go directly to YouTube, search for “John Hagee Roman Church Hitler,” and be recharged by a fresh jolt of clerical jive.

What you’ll find is a white televangelist, the Rev. John Hagee, lecturing in front of an enormous diorama. Wielding a pointer, he pokes at the image of a woman with Pamela Anderson-sized breasts, her hand raising a golden chalice. The woman is “the Great Whore,” Mr. Hagee explains, and she is drinking “the blood of the Jewish people.” That’s because the Great Whore represents “the Roman Church,” which, in his view, has thirsted for Jewish blood throughout history, from the Crusades to the Holocaust.

Mr. Hagee is not a fringe kook but the pastor of a Texas megachurch. On Feb. 27, he stood with John McCain and endorsed him over the religious conservatives’ favorite, Mike Huckabee, who was then still in the race.

Are we really to believe that neither Mr. McCain nor his camp knew anything then about Mr. Hagee’s views? This particular YouTube video — far from the only one — was posted on Jan. 1, nearly two months before the Hagee-McCain press conference. Mr. Hagee appears on multiple religious networks, including twice daily on the largest, Trinity Broadcasting, which reaches 75 million homes. Any 12-year-old with a laptop could have vetted this preacher in 30 seconds, tops.

Since then, Mr. McCain has been shocked to learn that his clerical ally has made many other outrageous statements. Mr. Hagee, it’s true, did not blame the American government for concocting AIDS. But he did say that God created Hurricane Katrina to punish New Orleans for its sins, particularly a scheduled “homosexual parade there on the Monday that Katrina came.”

Mr. Hagee didn’t make that claim in obscure circumstances, either. He broadcast it on one of America’s most widely heard radio programs, “Fresh Air” on NPR, back in September 2006. He reaffirmed it in a radio interview less than two weeks ago. Only after a reporter asked Mr. McCain about this Katrina homily on April 24 did the candidate brand it as “nonsense” and the preacher retract it.

Mr. McCain says he does not endorse any of Mr. Hagee’s calumnies, any more than Barack Obama endorses Mr. Wright’s. But those who try to give Mr. McCain a pass for his embrace of a problematic preacher have a thin case. It boils down to this: Mr. McCain was not a parishioner for 20 years at Mr. Hagee’s church.

That defense implies, incorrectly, that Mr. McCain was a passive recipient of this bigot’s endorsement. In fact, by his own account, Mr. McCain sought out Mr. Hagee, who is perhaps best known for trying to drum up a pre-emptive “holy war” with Iran. (This preacher’s rantings may tell us more about Mr. McCain’s policy views than Mr. Wright’s tell us about Mr. Obama’s.) Even after Mr. Hagee’s Catholic bashing bubbled up in the mainstream media, Mr. McCain still did not reject and denounce him, as Mr. Obama did an unsolicited endorser, Louis Farrakhan, at the urging of Tim Russert and Hillary Clinton. Mr. McCain instead told George Stephanopoulos two Sundays ago that while he condemns any “anti-anything” remarks by Mr. Hagee, he is still “glad to have his endorsement.”

I wonder if Mr. McCain would have given the same answer had Mr. Stephanopoulos confronted him with the graphic video of the pastor in full “Great Whore” glory. But Mr. McCain didn’t have to fear so rude a transgression. Mr. Hagee’s videos have never had the same circulation on television as Mr. Wright’s. A sonorous white preacher spouting venom just doesn’t have the telegenic zing of a theatrical black man.

Perhaps that’s why virtually no one has rebroadcast the highly relevant prototype for Mr. Wright’s fiery claim that 9/11 was America’s chickens “coming home to roost.” That would be the Sept. 13, 2001, televised exchange between Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, who blamed the attacks on America’s abortionists, feminists, gays and A.C.L.U. lawyers. (Mr. Wright blamed the attacks on America’s foreign policy.) Had that video re-emerged in the frenzied cable-news rotation, Mr. McCain might have been asked to explain why he no longer calls these preachers “agents of intolerance” and chose to cozy up to Mr. Falwell by speaking at his Liberty University in 2006.

None of this is to say that two wacky white preachers make a Wright right. It is entirely fair for any voter to weigh Mr. Obama’s long relationship with his pastor in assessing his fitness for office. It is also fair to weigh Mr. Obama’s judgment in handling this personal and political crisis as it has repeatedly boiled over. But whatever that verdict, it is disingenuous to pretend that there isn’t a double standard operating here. If we’re to judge black candidates on their most controversial associates — and how quickly, sternly and completely they disown them — we must judge white politicians by the same yardstick.

When Rudy Giuliani, still a viable candidate, successfully courted Pat Robertson for an endorsement last year, few replayed Mr. Robertson’s greatest past insanities. Among them is his best-selling 1991 tome, “The New World Order,” which peddled some of the same old dark conspiracy theories about “European bankers” (who just happened to be named Warburg, Schiff and Rothschild) that Mr. Farrakhan has trafficked in. Nor was Mr. Giuliani ever seriously pressed to explain why his cronies on the payroll at Giuliani Partners included a priest barred from the ministry by his Long Island diocese in 2002 following allegations of sexual abuse. Much as Mr. Wright officiated at the Obamas’ wedding, so this priest officiated at (one of) Mr. Giuliani’s. Did you even hear about it?

There is not just a double standard for black and white politicians at play in too much of the news media and political establishment, but there is also a glaring double standard for our political parties. The Clintons and Mr. Obama are always held accountable for their racial stands, as they should be, but the elephant in the room of our politics is rarely acknowledged: In the 21st century, the so-called party of Lincoln does not have a single African-American among its collective 247 senators and representatives in Washington. Yes, there are appointees like Clarence Thomas and Condi Rice, but, as we learned during the Mark Foley scandal, even gay men may hold more G.O.P. positions of power than blacks.

A near half-century after the civil rights acts of the 1960s, this is quite an achievement. Yet the holier-than-thou politicians and pundits on the right passing shrill moral judgment over every Democratic racial skirmish are almost never asked to confront or even acknowledge the racial dysfunction in their own house. In our mainstream political culture, this de facto apartheid is simply accepted as an intractable given, unworthy of notice, and just too embarrassing to mention aloud in polite Beltway company. Those who dare are instantly accused of “political correctness” or “reverse racism.”

An all-white Congressional delegation doesn’t happen by accident. It’s the legacy of race cards that have been dealt since the birth of the Southern strategy in the Nixon era. No one knows this better than Mr. McCain, whose own adopted daughter of color was the subject of a vicious smear in his party’s South Carolina primary of 2000.

This year Mr. McCain has called for a respectful (i.e., non-race-baiting) campaign and has gone so far as to criticize (ineffectually) North Carolina’s Republican Party for running a Wright-demonizing ad in that state’s current primary. Mr. McCain has been posing (awkwardly) with black people in his tour of “forgotten” America. Speaking of Katrina in New Orleans, he promised that “never again” would a federal recovery effort be botched on so grand a scale.

This is all surely sincere, and a big improvement over Mitt Romney’s dreams of his father marching with the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Up to a point. Here, too, there’s a double standard. Mr. McCain is graded on a curve because the G.O.P. bar is set so low. But at a time when the latest Wall Street Journal-NBC News poll shows that President Bush is an even greater drag on his popularity than Mr. Wright is on Mr. Obama’s, Mr. McCain’s New Orleans visit is more about the self-interested politics of distancing himself from Mr. Bush than the recalibration of policy.

Mr. McCain took his party’s stingier line on Katrina aid and twice opposed an independent commission to investigate the failed government response. Asked on his tour what should happen to the Ninth Ward now, he called for “a conversation” about whether anyone should “rebuild it, tear it down, you know, whatever it is.” Whatever, whenever, never mind.

For all this primary season’s obsession with the single (and declining) demographic of white working-class men in Rust Belt states, America is changing rapidly across all racial, generational and ethnic lines. The Census Bureau announced last week that half the country’s population growth since 2000 is due to Hispanics, another group understandably alienated from the G.O.P.

Anyone who does the math knows that America is on track to become a white-minority nation in three to four decades. Yet if there’s any coherent message to be gleaned from the hypocrisy whipped up by Hurricane Jeremiah, it’s that this nation’s perennially promised candid conversation on race has yet to begin.

robnoel  posted on  2008-05-04   12:29:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: robnoel (#17)

That defense implies, incorrectly, that Mr. McCain was a passive recipient of this bigot’s endorsement. In fact, by his own account, Mr. McCain sought out Mr. Hagee, who is perhaps best known for trying to drum up a pre-emptive “holy war” with Iran. (This preacher’s rantings may tell us more about Mr. McCain’s policy views than Mr. Wright’s tell us about Mr. Obama’s.) Even after Mr. Hagee’s Catholic bashing bubbled up in the mainstream media, Mr. McCain still did not reject and denounce him, as Mr. Obama did an unsolicited endorser, Louis Farrakhan, at the urging of Tim Russert and Hillary Clinton. Mr. McCain instead told George Stephanopoulos two Sundays ago that while he condemns any “anti-anything” remarks by Mr. Hagee, he is still “glad to have his endorsement.”

talk about a whore, Roman or otherwise

If this nation becomes a White minority, the majority will not be Black but rather Latino. Furthermore, most Blacks and Latinos are Christian. No matter what Hagee says, the basic doctrine of Catholicism is entirely Christian. OTOH, whatever it is Hagee believes in, sounds extraordinarily un-Christ-like.

"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

robin  posted on  2008-05-04   12:36:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: robin (#12) (Edited)

But repentance is totally scriptural. And we are admonished to pray "that it may go well". Only the Father knows the hour. So assuming it will just get "worse and worse" may become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Repentance is scriptural. But it is up God to get individuals to repent.

These christian-zionists are the 1st to say that these are the last days. That in and of itself almost makes me question the truthfulness of that, since I believe nothing that they say.

What does scripture say about the last days? What does it say about the condition of the church? I _assume_ nothing, scripture is clear on the topic. I _presume_ ;) you are a christian, so you should know what it says, not what you want it to say.

You evidently are looking for a silver lining to this cloud. The silver lining is not that things will improve, but that God really is in control. Even in control of this apostacy.

How do I know that? Because God is the creator of evil. Prove it, you say? Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

------They may look intimidating, that's by design; but they aren't bulletproof. -------

PSUSA  posted on  2008-05-04   12:37:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: robnoel (#17)

A sonorous white preacher spouting venom just doesn’t have the telegenic zing of a theatrical black man

Rich actually gets this right.

Hagee is equally as venomous, but totally lacks the rhythm and rhyming skills of of Wright. Hagee is far less entertaining and needs to try harder.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-05-04   12:39:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: PSUSA (#19)

Some won't repent until light is shown on their evil. That's what this declaration or manifesto is about - shining the light on darkness.

The oldest book of the Bible, Job, is probably the best look at good vs evil.

"To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

robin  posted on  2008-05-04   12:40:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: robin (#0) (Edited)

God is power. God is your go-to when you want to be humble. God helps athletes win.

God is a winner. You can't win without God, and you can't avoid giving God credit if you want to be humble.

God is convenience personified impersonally, for winners.

God will whip you one way and the other so fast you won't know what hit you.

God makes everyone else look foolish.

Really, really foolish.

This is the God of evangelicals. See they're more honest than the other Christians about these things.

Zionists have God on their side. To deny that is to be a loser.

God is absolute might and absolutely right.

Work it backwards from winning. It's that simple.

nobody  posted on  2008-05-04   12:46:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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