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Religion
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Title: 'An Evangelical Manifesto' criticizes politics of faith
Source: CNN
URL Source: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/02/evangelicals.ap/index.html
Published: May 2, 2008
Author: Associated Press
Post Date: 2008-05-04 03:36:59 by robin
Keywords: None
Views: 532
Comments: 22

'An Evangelical Manifesto' criticizes politics of faith

(AP) -- Conservative Christian leaders who believe the word "evangelical" has lost its religious meaning plan to release a starkly self-critical document saying the movement has become too political and has diminished the Gospel through its approach to the culture wars.

The statement, called "An Evangelical Manifesto," condemns Christians on the right and left for using faith to express political views without regard to the truth of the Bible, according to a draft of the document obtained Friday by The Associated Press.

"That way faith loses its independence, Christians become 'useful idiots' for one political party or another, and the Christian faith becomes an ideology," according to the draft.

The declaration, scheduled to be released Wednesday in Washington, encourages Christians to be politically engaged and uphold teachings such as traditional marriage. But the drafters say evangelicals have often expressed "truth without love," helping create a backlash against religion during a "generation of culture warring."

"All too often we have attacked the evils and injustices of others," the statement says, "while we have condoned our own sins." It argues, "we must reform our own behavior."

The document is the latest chapter in the debate among conservative Christians about their role in public life. Most veteran leaders believe the focus should remain on abortion and marriage, while other evangelicals -- especially in the younger generation -- are pushing for a broader agenda. The manifesto sides with those seeking a wide-range of concerns beyond "single-issue politics."

Among the signers of the manifesto are Os Guiness, a well-known evangelical author and speaker, and Richard Mouw, president of Fuller Theological Seminary, a leading evangelical school in Pasadena, California. Organizers declined to comment until the final document is released.

They say more than 80 evangelicals have signed the statement, although only a few names have been released. A. Larry Ross, spokesman for the authors, said the theologians and Christian leaders involved are seeking to "go back to the root theological meaning of the term evangelical."

Some champions of traditional culture war issues are not among the supporters.

Richard Land, head of the public policy arm for the Southern Baptist Convention, said through a spokeswoman that he has not seen the document and was not asked to sign it.

James Dobson, the influential founder of Focus on the Family, a Christian group in Colorado Springs, Colorado, did not sign the document, said Gary Schneeberger, a Dobson spokesman. Schneeberger would not say whether Dobson had read the manifesto or had been asked to sign on.

Phil Burress, an Ohio activist who networks with national evangelical leaders, said that if high-profile evangelical leaders such as Dobson and Land don't support the document, "it's like throwing a pebble in the ocean" and will carry no weight.

But the drafters hope they can start a movement among evangelicals to reflect and act on the document. "We must find a new understanding of our place in public life," the drafters wrote.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 19.

#1. To: robin, all (#0) (Edited)

...movement has become too political and has diminished the Gospel through its approach to the culture wars.

I disagree with the entire premise of the article.

The "evangelical movement" has turned the gospel inside out and upside down, by being downright deceptive about what scripture actually teaches, not because they are involved in "culture wars". I do not limit this to those wolves on TBN. Everyone does it. Except for J Vernon McGee (sp?). He actually reads the scripture and goes thru the Bible in 5 years. But he is dead now, and I didn't agree with all of his interpretations either.

The "leaders" do not teach scripture. They do teach traditions and interpretations. Listen to them. Instead of letting the Word speak for itself, they filter it thru their denominations doctrines and give that interpretation.

I spend a fair amount of time listening to "christian talk radio" just to see what they are going to say. Many times I have heard them say that scripture says something, and scripture does not say that. They blatantly lie, they know better. They spend years in college in order to learn their denominations doctrines (lies), and people believe that these college boys must know what they are talking about, since they have all that education.

Then I get angry, and I change the station.

The "culture war" has nothing to do with it. They are corrupt to the core, and to limit it all to their political actions is nonsense. It's a smokescreen.

PSUSA  posted on  2008-05-04   5:17:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: PSUSA (#1)

The "leaders" do not teach scripture. They do teach traditions and interpretations.

The largest "evangelical movement" was headed by Jerry Farewell I caught this article by his son Jonathon the next generation if you will....it's titled "Our Role: Blessing Israel"...he talks about speaking at Seventh Annual Israel Solidarity Event held at the Israeli Embassy in Washington, D.C....

www.theconservativevoice.com/article/32028.html

At the bottom of his piece he says

In Genesis 12, God told Abraham that He would bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel. As we approach the 60th anniversary of the rebirth of the State of Israel, let us make sure that we are doing everything we can to bless Israel. We must realize that God’s statement to Israel did not give us the benefit for interpretation or adjustment. His directive was clear: bless Israel.

Every Wednesday I speak with Charles Colson who is trying to educate those who will listen that this interpretation is not only wrong but is the main cause for Americas misguided support of Israel....here is his take on Genesis 12

The State of Israel's legal claims to Arab lands are based on the United Nations Partitioning Agreement of 1947, which gave the Jews only a fraction of the land they have since occupied by force. But when this author went to Israel and asked various Israelis where they got the right to occupy Palestine, each invariably said words to the effect that "God gave it to us." This interpretation of Hebrew scripture stems from the book of Genesis and is called the "Abrahamic Covenant". It is repeated several times and begins with God's promise to a man called Abraham who was eventually to become the grandfather of a man called "Israel:"

"[2] AND I WILL MAKE OF THEE A GREAT NATION, AND I WILL BLESS THEE, AND MAKE THY NAME GREAT; AND THOU SHALL BE A BLESSING:"

"[3] AND I WILL BLESS THEM THAT BLESS THEE, AND CURSE HIM THAT CURSETH THEE: AND IN THEE SHALL ALL FAMILIES OF THE EARTH BE BLESSED." Genesis 12:3, King James Edition.

It is upon this promise to a single person that modern Israeli Zionists base their claims to what amounts to the entire Mid-East. Its logic is roughly the equivalent of someone claiming to be the heir to the John Paul Getty estate because the great man had once sent a letter to someone's cousin seven times removed containing the salutation "wishing you my very best." In "Sherry's War," We Hold These Truths provides a common sense discussion of the Abrahamic Covenant and how millions of Christians are taught to misunderstand it.

christianparty.net/scofield.htm

robnoel  posted on  2008-05-04   9:20:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: robnoel (#2)

a starkly self-critical document saying the movement has become too political and has diminished the Gospel through its approach to the culture wars.

The statement, called "An Evangelical Manifesto," condemns Christians on the right and left for using faith to express political views without regard to the truth of the Bible

You disagree with this? Why?

Falwell is an example of why this statement was ever necessary. He and other evangelical pastors decided to preach politics from the pulpit, even printing pamphlets telling their congregation how to vote. And they were told to vote for only the most pro-Israeli politicians, according to their interpretation of eschatology.

robin  posted on  2008-05-04   10:26:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: robin (#3)

Not sure I understand your question

robnoel  posted on  2008-05-04   10:29:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: PSUSA, robnoel (#4)

Sorry, it was PSUSA who disagreed with the premise of the article.

The article is about a declaration being made by some Christians about how the following has become true of many Christians:

"That way faith loses its independence, Christians become 'useful idiots' for one political party or another, and the Christian faith becomes an ideology," according to the draft.

And I'm just wondering how anyone could disagree with this.

robin  posted on  2008-05-04   10:36:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: robin (#5)

And I'm just wondering how anyone could disagree with this.

My bad. I should have been more clear.

I said it was a smokescreen.

It's not that I disagree with the assertion that they are useful idiots, it's that it doesn't nearly go far enough.

It's like someone dying of cancer, but being worried about an infected paper cut.

It's like me being a murderer, and saying "At least I am not a jaywalker".

The entire churchianity system is corrupt, and when was the last time a corrupt organization was able to correct itself? That, imo, is what they are trying to do, correct themselves.

Christians are not told to fix the system from within, we are COMMANDED to leave that system.

Rev 18 1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

And

1 Peter 4 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

and

2 Timothy 3 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

So much for any "last days revival".

PSUSA  posted on  2008-05-04   11:07:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: PSUSA, robnoel (#7)

It's not that I disagree with the assertion that they are useful idiots, it's that it doesn't nearly go far enough.

Oh, I see what you mean, and you have a point. Maybe it's just a starting point?

robin  posted on  2008-05-04   11:10:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: robin (#9)

Maybe it's just a starting point?

Not in my opinion. Not when we are explicitly told that things will get worse and worse. It doesnt say things will get better because the church suddenly repents and a great revival comes, or gets better for any other reason.

It doesn't get better until He comes back. We just need to hold on to what we have, like the parable of the virgins in Mat 25 1-13

PSUSA  posted on  2008-05-04   11:24:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: PSUSA, robnoel (#10)

But repentance is totally scriptural. And we are admonished to pray "that it may go well". Only the Father knows the hour. So assuming it will just get "worse and worse" may become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

robin  posted on  2008-05-04   11:35:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: robin (#12) (Edited)

But repentance is totally scriptural. And we are admonished to pray "that it may go well". Only the Father knows the hour. So assuming it will just get "worse and worse" may become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Repentance is scriptural. But it is up God to get individuals to repent.

These christian-zionists are the 1st to say that these are the last days. That in and of itself almost makes me question the truthfulness of that, since I believe nothing that they say.

What does scripture say about the last days? What does it say about the condition of the church? I _assume_ nothing, scripture is clear on the topic. I _presume_ ;) you are a christian, so you should know what it says, not what you want it to say.

You evidently are looking for a silver lining to this cloud. The silver lining is not that things will improve, but that God really is in control. Even in control of this apostacy.

How do I know that? Because God is the creator of evil. Prove it, you say? Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

PSUSA  posted on  2008-05-04   12:37:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 19.

#21. To: PSUSA (#19)

Some won't repent until light is shown on their evil. That's what this declaration or manifesto is about - shining the light on darkness.

The oldest book of the Bible, Job, is probably the best look at good vs evil.

robin  posted on  2008-05-04 12:40:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 19.

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