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Title: An Open Letter to the Obamophobes
Source:
Me
URL Source: [None]
Published: May 4, 2008
Author: Me, Me, Me
Post Date: 2008-05-04 19:22:53 by a vast rightwing conspirator
Keywords: None
Views: 3899
Comments: 154
I keep hearing from a number of thoughtful and well-meaning members of this forum statements such as this one: "most Os have yet to put together a rational argument for his candidacy, save white guilt." I am not going to comment on the honesty of the charge but I am going to address it. It should settle the issue definitively and it should turn all rational and America-loving Obamophobes into enthusiastic supporters of Dr. Barack. If you (and it's a generic 'you') insist on being so intellectually lazy or derelict as to being unable or unwilling to see any difference between the three of them, that's the way you see things or rather imagine them and I am unable to cure or even treat your intellectual laziness or dereliction. I shall point out to you that even Dr. Paul saw a difference between the 3 and expressed a preference for Dr. Obama but you showed extreme obtuseness, dogmatism, lack of imagination and an inability to accept facts on a recent thread discussing that topic. Some of you or rather all of you (still that generic 'you') keep throwing the "there's not one dime worth of difference between the three" argument - never backed with facts of any kind - to which I reply: remove the dogmatic blinders and look around. Yes, Dr. O is a bit of a socialist because he is a Democrat but, remember, presidents don't get to appropriate one dime, it's the congress that appropriates funds and there will be no expansion of socialism unless the congress funds it. However, presidents do have the power to bring our troops back home and avoid wasting trillions on ruinous military adventures. It is likely that Dr. O would ease our foreign wars burden if elected president, even Dr. Paul admits it. So, help save America. Help Obama defeat Hillary and politically slay the odious McCain so that the American dreams don't die yet. There's trillions of dollars worth of difference between them. And, if you are concerned about socialist spending, help elect fiscally conservative reps and senators.
My friend, the rationale has been provided to you, more than once: the alternatives to Dr. O are either Hillary or McCain. We can hardly afford one of the 2 in the White House.
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#2. To: farmfriend (#1)
We should all follow our consciousness and we should all be prepared to live with the consequences of our deeds.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Nor will I. No way, no how, not now, not ever. I have never voted for any statist whore and don't plan to start now.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. No problem there. I keep an eye on those in my state legislature and keep track of what they do. They hear from me and my friends on a regular basis. I think that is more important anyway.
Exactly! They really are all the same. The policies that come down the pike will all lead in the same direction with the same results.
I agree. If the federal executive could be confined to the powers and the responsibilities that the constitution assigns to it, the identity of the U.S. president would be largely irrelevant.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
But they are not. Neither are the courts or the legislature for that matter. The puppet masters have given us a choice of candidates they find acceptable. All the policies will be the same no matter what. I'm refusing to play their game. I don't believe it is wasting my vote either since it doesn't matter ultimately who gets elected. Things will only change when enough people stop voting or start voting third party.
Or take a lesson from the founders and say enough is enough. And they would have said it a long time ago.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Explain to me how the above differs from the neo-con agenda. America has made her choice. Ineffective action over concrete results so that people can delude themselves into thinking they are making a difference without having to put any real effort into it. Peace? As the Germans said: "Enjoy the war. The peace will be terrible."
"The more I see of life, the less I fear death." - Me. "If violence solved nothing, then weapons technology would have never advanced past crude clubs and rocks." - Me.
O'filterer
The 3 Stooges were funny, but I don't want to be FORCED to choose one of them to be president. And what we have here are 3 not-so-funny 3 Stooges. Not that our votes mean anything...That is the conclusion some of us have come to anyway. If people had a choice between Hitler, Stalin, and Mao, who would you vote for? It's the same thing with this (s)election. We have been given (supposedly) 3 "choices", all figureheads and none of which are any good. So it should hardly be surprising that those of us that feel this way will sit this one out, because we don't have a dog in this fight, and frankly it sucks to hope I choose to support the lesser of three evils. Evidently, you have a lot of faith in Obama. I cannot fault you for that, really. You're going to do what you are going to do, regardless of what anyone says. I had faith in Reagan. I learned. I had no faith in Poppy Bush or shrub, or Klinton, and I was not disappointed. Now I don't trust any of them to give me the right time of day.
------They may look intimidating, that's by design; but they aren't bulletproof. -------
That one started a conversation that led to an Obamaconner putting me on filter...
Really? Great minds think alike ;) I tend to stay out of the political threads, and I didnt read that one.
------They may look intimidating, that's by design; but they aren't bulletproof. -------
suuure
As I explained, we are facing cases of intellectual laziness or dereliction. There are 3 individuals attempting to get the job of US president. They are different and they are likely to act differently, once elected. 2 of them are terrible, the third may be a small positive over what we have now. Between Hitler, Stalin and Mao... as US presidents? I would eliminate Stalin. Between Hitler and Mao... I'd probably pick Mao. You DO realize that the 3 are 3 VERY different people, don't you?
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Please name for me what Obama or his Party represent that places America first.
suuure If, knowing what is known, one claims that there is not one dime worth of difference between the 3 then, I am sorry, but the 'intellectual laziness or dereliction' diagnostic seems to apply. By the way it's impossible to prove the 'not one dime worth of difference' statement to be true and it is very easy to reject it as untrue.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
My friend, let's not be delusional. We are way past the 'America number one' jingoism now. America is no longer number one. Priority one these days is 'survival' and, by promising not to make more enemies and not to waste more trillions on stupid wars, Obama's presidency makes our survival more likely than otherwise.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Between Hitler, Stalin and Mao... as US presidents? I would eliminate Stalin. Between Hitler and Mao... I'd probably pick Mao. You DO realize that the 3 are 3 VERY different people, don't you? First of all, I posted that, not FOH. So, I suffer from a case of "intellectual laziness or dereliction."? Moi? You chose Mao. He murdered millions. But evidently you see him as the lesser of 3 evils, since you chose him. There is no difference between 3 people who murder millions of their own citizens. There is no difference between 3 figureheads that will continue the policies of the real powerbrokers in DC and elsewhere (or they will end up having the backs of their heads exploding like Kennedy if they dont play ball). It's not cases of "intellectual laziness or dereliction". It's not knowing the difference between right and wrong, or good and evil. Choosing what you hope to be the lesser evil is still choosing evil.
------They may look intimidating, that's by design; but they aren't bulletproof. -------
Well said, though it seems your battling a mentality that says we have the moral right to nuke any other country we want if it makes life more comfortable for us at home.
Of course there are differences. I agree that it's not easy to choose between Hitler and Mao but Mao won because he seems to be a much cooler dude than the other 2. He didn't have Gulags or concentration camps, by the way. Yes, people died but it wasn't done in an efficient, well-organized way. Thet 3 are VERY different and, IF you had the power to choose, you should not give up and throw yourself at the mercy of... whomever.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
If you're right, and you may be right, then nothing matters because we will get one of these 3. And if it doesn't matter, what's the big deal that there's so much infighting here over this subject?
It seems to be so. I remember a couple of discussions on Truman's courageously incinerating 100,000 Japs and most did not agree that he was a mass murderer.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Delusional? I asked a very simple and direct question. Have you an answer?
You had my answer. Oh, as for Obama's party... what does the party have to do with anything? I am against ANY party and I support the criminalization of all party-related activities. We can have a discussion on that at some point.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Your answer is that you're an Obama guy because of a political promise. And I'm delusional? What will you fall for next? Wishes, hopes, fairy dust in the eyes? A promise offered by a politician is what has made you a believer in Obama? Emotional thinking like yours is why Moe, Larry and Curly are on this years menu.
Comrade, have I not been on your filter?
Hey, obey Obama !! He's a nice guy !! /ophilespeak
Fine. Let's phase it another way. Would you rather get shot with a Winchester, a Remington, or a Mossberg?
"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price." Vir Cotto, Babylon 5
I don't blame the Obamaphobes and I don't blame the Obamaphiles. there is a good case for both. Though I think there is not a dime's worth of difference between the 3 I may actually vote for Obama in November. my main motivation is that I think it is a good faith effort to tell the rest of the world that we Americans don't always vote for the most pro-war candidate. When our government goes forth and utterly does away with many people, then I would prefer that the rest of the world saw us Americans vote in an anti-war direction when we had the choice.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
I don't like cancer or AIDS. If I choose not to give myself a case of either, does that make me a cancerphobe? or and AIDSphobe? Does thinking that Obama is nothing but another NWO stooge of a slightly different color making me an Obamaphobe? I'm just trying to see if this open letter applies to me...
Tagline space for rent.
A cooler dude. That is quite intellectual. And you claim others have "intellectual laziness or dereliction"? If you are serious, then act like it. You chose Mao, instead of telling Mao, Hitler, and Stalin to eat *&$% and die twice. So, you are depending on the tender mercies of a mass murderer to carry you through. "IF you had the power to choose, you should not give up and throw yourself at the mercy of... whomever. " That is another false choice. I place myself at no ones mercy. I am responsible for 1 person, myself. I depend on them for nothing, least of all "mercy".
------They may look intimidating, that's by design; but they aren't bulletproof. -------
If it's such that we will get shot regardless, what's wrong with making a choice? Does it matter enough to argue over it?
There are 2 kinds of people on 4um. Those that like Obama because they are white guilters, and those who hate Obama because they are racists. At least that seems to be the options put forth collectively by us 4umers.
Inarguable points .... but of course they'll be rejected by the 'phobes. That's all they do, reject.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
Are you sure? It could be your last chance. Oh! But if you set on your butt you you could get another chance in 2012.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
Your nutty comment on the 2nd, and worse, your refusal to amend it, makes your political additions to conversation pure baffonery.
From you, with a mind so open your brain apparently fell out...
Other than someone trying to convince me that I'm going to get less dead with one over the other two, nothing is wrong with it.
"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price." Vir Cotto, Babylon 5
I keep an eye on those in my state legislature and keep track of what they do. They hear from me and my friends on a regular basis. In which state do you reside, if I may ask. I think that is more important anyway. I wish you well on any invasion plans they may be cooking up.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
Dusty Springfield This song might be older than some of the Philes, but it's what their support of Obama is based on.
A considerable number have. How's it workin' for yuh?
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
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#3. To: farmfriend (#1)
So, I'm still not going to vote for McHillobama.
Lord Acton
#4. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#2)
We should all follow our consciousness and we should all be prepared to live with the consequences of our deeds.
Thought for the day:
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist'
#5. To: James Deffenbach (#3)
I have never voted for any statist whore and don't plan to start now.
Thought for the day:
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist'
#6. To: farmfriend (#4)
#7. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#6)
(Edited)
If the federal executive could be confined to the powers and the responsibilities that the constitution assigns to it, the identity of the U.S. president would be largely irrelevant.
Thought for the day:
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist'
#8. To: farmfriend (#7)
Things will only change when enough people stop voting or start voting third party.
Lord Acton
#9. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#0)
Some of you or rather all of you (still that generic 'you') keep throwing the "there's not one dime worth of difference between the three" argument - never backed with facts of any kind - to which I reply: remove the dogmatic blinders and look around.
#10. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#0)
#11. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#0)
#12. To: PSUSA (#11)
If people had a choice between Hitler, Stalin, and Mao, who would you vote for?
#13. To: FOH (#12)
That one started a conversation that led to an Obamaconner putting me on filter...
#14. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#0)
keep throwing the "there's not one dime worth of difference between the three" argument - never backed with facts of any kind -
#15. To: FOH (#12)
If people had a choice between Hitler, Stalin, and Mao, who would you vote for?
#16. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#0)
#17. To: christine (#14)
keep throwing the "there's not one dime worth of difference between the three" argument - never backed with facts of any kind -
#18. To: Jethro Tull (#16)
Please name for me what Obama or his Party represent that places America first.
#19. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#15)
As I explained, we are facing cases of intellectual laziness or dereliction. There are 3 individuals attempting to get the job of US president. They are different and they are likely to act differently, once elected. 2 of them are terrible, the third may be a small positive over what we have now.
#20. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#18)
My friend, let's not be delusional. We are way past the 'America number one' jingoism now. America is no longer number one. Priority one these days is 'survival' and, by promising not to make more enemies and not to waste more trillions on stupid wars, Obama's presidency makes our survival more likely than otherwise.
#21. To: PSUSA (#19)
#22. To: PSUSA (#19)
There is no difference between 3 figureheads that will continue the policies of the real powerbrokers in DC and elsewhere..
#23. To: Pinguinite (#20)
(Edited)
your battling a mentality that says we have the moral right to nuke any other country we want if it makes life more comfortable for us at home.
#24. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#18)
My friend, let's not be delusional.
#25. To: Jethro Tull (#24)
#26. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#25)
You had my answer.
#27. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#15)
Between Hitler, Stalin and Mao... as US presidents? I would eliminate Stalin. Between Hitler and Mao... I'd probably pick Mao. You DO realize that the 3 are 3 VERY different people, don't you?
#28. To: Jethro Tull (#26)
#29. To: a vast rightwing conspirator, christine (#17)
By the way it's impossible to prove the 'not one dime worth of difference' statement to be true and it is very easy to reject it as untrue.
#30. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#0)
(Edited)
#31. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#0)
#32. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#21)
agree that it's not easy to choose between Hitler and Mao but Mao won because he seems to be a much cooler dude than the other 2
#33. To: orangedog (#29)
Fine. Let's phase it another way. Would you rather get shot with a Winchester, a Remington, or a Mossberg?
#34. To: Critter (#31)
Does thinking that Obama is nothing but another NWO stooge of a slightly different color making me an Obamaphobe?
#35. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#0)
#36. To: James Deffenbach (#3)
I have never voted for any statist whore and don't plan to start now.
#37. To: Pinguinite (#34)
At least that seems to be the options put forth collectively by us 4umers.
#38. To: iconoclast (#35)
That's all they do, reject.
#39. To: Pinguinite (#33)
If it's such that we will get shot regardless, what's wrong with making a choice?
#40. To: farmfriend (#4)
#41. To: FOH (#28)
Wishing and hoping and
thinking and praying,
planning and dreaming
#42. To: farmfriend (#7)
Things will only change when enough people stop voting or start voting third party.
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