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Title: An Open Letter to the Obamophobes
Source:
Me
URL Source: [None]
Published: May 4, 2008
Author: Me, Me, Me
Post Date: 2008-05-04 19:22:53 by a vast rightwing conspirator
Keywords: None
Views: 3864
Comments: 154
I keep hearing from a number of thoughtful and well-meaning members of this forum statements such as this one: "most Os have yet to put together a rational argument for his candidacy, save white guilt." I am not going to comment on the honesty of the charge but I am going to address it. It should settle the issue definitively and it should turn all rational and America-loving Obamophobes into enthusiastic supporters of Dr. Barack. If you (and it's a generic 'you') insist on being so intellectually lazy or derelict as to being unable or unwilling to see any difference between the three of them, that's the way you see things or rather imagine them and I am unable to cure or even treat your intellectual laziness or dereliction. I shall point out to you that even Dr. Paul saw a difference between the 3 and expressed a preference for Dr. Obama but you showed extreme obtuseness, dogmatism, lack of imagination and an inability to accept facts on a recent thread discussing that topic. Some of you or rather all of you (still that generic 'you') keep throwing the "there's not one dime worth of difference between the three" argument - never backed with facts of any kind - to which I reply: remove the dogmatic blinders and look around. Yes, Dr. O is a bit of a socialist because he is a Democrat but, remember, presidents don't get to appropriate one dime, it's the congress that appropriates funds and there will be no expansion of socialism unless the congress funds it. However, presidents do have the power to bring our troops back home and avoid wasting trillions on ruinous military adventures. It is likely that Dr. O would ease our foreign wars burden if elected president, even Dr. Paul admits it. So, help save America. Help Obama defeat Hillary and politically slay the odious McCain so that the American dreams don't die yet. There's trillions of dollars worth of difference between them. And, if you are concerned about socialist spending, help elect fiscally conservative reps and senators.
My friend, the rationale has been provided to you, more than once: the alternatives to Dr. O are either Hillary or McCain. We can hardly afford one of the 2 in the White House.
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#64. To: farmfriend (#60)
California You and your friends are keeping California on the straight and narrow? BWAAHAAAHHAAA!
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
Great. How about sharing with all of us how much better Saint Obama is or dropping the "intellectually lazy" line of horseshit you've been slinging. If you want to play the role of some abused girlfriend, convinced she has to choose between which guy she thinks will beat her less, knock yourself out.
"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price." Vir Cotto, Babylon 5
And you are a whiny little bitch that goes to highly personal attacks when your pussy hurts. I'd say that Neil has the moral high ground, and you are a amusing little tyke with a soul so shallow a walk through it would scarcely get your feet wet.
My terms were similar to your terms. The difference was only in degree, not in kind. I was trying to get you to see that choosing evil was evil. You don't have to choose. You don't have to play their game. But I understand why you do. I was the same way. Guess who wins? The ones that make the rules you must play by. The deck is no longer stacked in our favor.
------They may look intimidating, that's by design; but they aren't bulletproof. -------
Of the three, I like Obama. I'm of mixed blood so I can't be a white guilter.
Accept responsibility? You've yet to deny or redact your willingness to shoot an innocent girl, and you have the audacity to lecture ME about responsibility? Tull, you are insane. Plainly you are insane. You care not a single fiber about the people around you. You care only about your self and your own well being, and you'll kill those around you, innocent people, just out of your own selfish greed. So yes, you have plenty in common with George Bush. You have no love of liberty except for your own! To hell with with everyone else! I am completely sick of you and expect your bozo count will be going up shortly.
The "White guilt" argument is so scatter gun and generic, it has never been worthy of consideration as a true point of argument. People posing it would use it to try to attack any candidate with Negro blood. I just ignore wankers posing this as a valid point of argument concerning candidates for high public office.
Your premise is that they are all equally evil or that, at least, all three of them have crossed a threshold of evilness beyond which it doesn't really matter who is the eviler one - like in the case of those who qualify for the death penalty, even though some may have killed 5 people while some killed 10 or 20. However, your premise is false. There are clear differences between the 3 and, remember, even Dr. Paul noted that, of the 3, Obama is the the one least likely to expand the wars. I believe that he is correct.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
1. Obama says that they hate us for our freedoms. "A crucial debate is occurring within Islam. Some believe in a future of peace, tolerance, development, and democratization. Others embrace a rigid and violent intolerance of personal liberty and the world at large." This sounds like something your average FReeker would post. 2. In a round about way he accuses Al-CIA-duh of being bitter and clinging to guns and Allah because they hate the US. Decades of US intervention in the ME had nothing to do with it! " This century's threats are at least as dangerous as and in some ways more complex than those we have confronted in the past. They come from weapons that can kill on a mass scale and from global terrorists who respond to alienation or perceived injustice with murderous nihilism." Remember, the half century of the US mucking about in the middle east is all in your head. You just think you're being bombed because you hate immigrants. I'll throw in #3 for fun. 3. Unpopular and preemptive war is okay so long as you mean well and think about it really hard before dropping the bombs. Bombs filled with the love of Saint Obama. "I will not hesitate to use force, unilaterally if necessary, to protect the American people or our vital interests whenever we are attacked or imminently threatened." If he starts talking about smoking guns and waving a tube of faux-anthrax around, I'm heading for the nearest air raid shelter. And the quote that makes me scream "my brain is on fire!" " We must also consider using military force in circumstances beyond self-defense in order to provide for the common security that underpins global stability..." I don't know if I should laugh or cry anymore. This entire pointless drama would make for grade A entertainment if not for the innocent people dieing every day.
"The more I see of life, the less I fear death." - Me. "If violence solved nothing, then weapons technology would have never advanced past crude clubs and rocks." - Me.
I never said, and I never implied, any such thing. Say Obama is 1% evil. Hitlery is 80%, and McInsane is 99.99%. just to arbitrarily assign values to the Candidate Evil Index, with evil being a candidates lack of faithfulness to the Constitution, not whether he/she is a good person or not. Pick Obama. We will be worse off, not better, bacause of that 1% that will be added to X% that we already have on the Current Evil Index. We need people that are not 1% evil, but -2% evil, or 2% good. Then things can improve. This sounds silly, I know.
------They may look intimidating, that's by design; but they aren't bulletproof. -------
I'm going to vote for Ron Paul on Tuesday, then vote for the best local candidates. After the primaries, I'll re-evaluate. My criteria is pretty simple. I look for the candidate who best believes as our Founders did. There is always a candidate running for national office who fills this. Not so with state and local levels where I have to go with those will do the least amount of damage.
"What began in Russia will end in America."- 1930, Elder Ignatius of Harbin, Manchuria.
Thanks for clarifying that. I never suspected your were anti gun, and was left with that impression on the whats wrong with the forum thread. I choose to stand by you on this one. That would be premeditated murder. There are just too many guilty party's out there that need to be shot, to even consider shooting an innocent person in defense of the 2nd amendment, or any other amendment as far as that goes. There is no such thing as collateral damage in my opinion. Whomever gives the order, accepts the order, or commits the deed is responsible for the entirety of the deed. We can take that even further. Whomever funds the deed is guilty also. That includes a taxpayer of a government who accepts collateral damage.
If I didn't think there was any differences between them then I wouldn't give a crap which one won. Yes there are some differences, Obama and Hillary are both going to kill health care in this nation. Obama, a political novice, is being used by the elite to flame racial tensions in this nation, not as a serious presidential candidate. McCain and Hillary are very similar when it comes to foreign policy. Obama appears slightly against the war but has more rhetoric in opposition to the war than an actual record. I will take his voting record on the war over his rhetoric used in the campaign. All three will hurt this nation, but in my opinion John McCain would hurt this nation the least. But I would never vote for any of them. I am not going to willingly vote for someone that is helping to destroy the USA. Right now I am leaning toward voting for Baldwin. But if only one of the three stooges can win, I would prefer it to be McCain.
God is always good!
You might regret those words someday if Obama wins.
God is always good!
How about just two of them? No real difference between Hillary and Obama. They even admit to that during the "debates".
Elect anyone but Obama, Clinton, or McCain.
Thank you. I welcome all readers here to compare Obama's words to the wacky/tragic experience of the last eight Bush years and his witless sound bites.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
And, after the primaries you may have helped America to have the wonderful choice of Hitlery vs. General Jack. D. Ripper in November. Then you can smugly vote for Ron again and the nation is screwed.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
This sounds silly, I know. Well, a guy name Voltaire thought so. The perfect is the enemy of the good.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
"We" who support Obama don't get into the "lesser of evils" for a very good reason, it has no relevance. Clinton has a long history of disgusting behavior .... just one example, the Travel Office disgrace. Of course that was way before she began the "just folks" sham performance. Same for McCain ... perhaps the best example, his shameful behavior when he came back from Viet Nam. Other examples for these two could fill a very large book. So far the worst thing Obama has been charged with is not leaving the largest church (and the most influential one in terms of social assistance) in the ghetto to which he, Obama himself, migrated in order to try to make a difference.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
I'll listen to you until you lie. And lie you did right there. Have you read Obama's history in Chicago? Whom his associates are and have been? Don't piss on my leg and tell me its raining.
I see Obama got another vote of support...... Nigeria oil rebels considering Obama truce appeal Rebels who have stepped up attacks on Nigeria's oil industry in the last month said on Sunday they were considering a ceasefire appeal by United States presidential hopeful Barack Obama. The Movement for the Emancipation of the Niger Delta (Mend) has launched five attacks on oil facilities in the Niger Delta since it resumed a campaign of violence in April, forcing Royal Dutch Shell to shut more than 164 000 barrels of oil per day (bpd).
I'd say that Neil has the moral high ground, and you are a amusing little tyke with a soul so shallow a walk through it would scarcely get your feet wet. You can't vouch for either fellow, so why add to the diatribe? I like you. But since you trashed JT in your mutual pissing contest, I am moved to make the following statement: Without JT, this forum would be terribly boring. I find him to be consistent and principled.
Another Marxist cause?
"And you are a whiny little bitch that goes to highly personal attacks when your pussy hurts." Mike is this the way you want to be viewed??? I have known you for many years and I find such disgusting.
I disagree. I find him self serving and unprincipled in his argument.
Have you read Obama's history in Chicago? Have you read the election returns in IL? Don't piss on my leg and tell me its raining. Go piss up a rope.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
It is a preview of the kind of conciliation and diplomacy that we can look forward to under an Obama administration.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
I like JT too, you just have admire his consistency, ignore his principles, and hope he gets back to humor.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
And you're OK for a 'phile, altho your trust/hope/change political mantra is short of reality :)
Good for spin bad for image...again!....would have a argument but when ones public support comes solely from various marxists and other fellow travelers I have to say the following....if it walks like a duck squawks like a duck guess what?....once again this is not to say the other two choices are any less of a duck
"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡
The other two "ducks" are bomb crazy. Whence comes this bomb craziness .... which apparently has also affected you? What a squandering we have done with the "peace dividend" granted us by Ron the First.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
Some of you or rather all of you (still that generic 'you') keep throwing the "there's not one dime worth of difference between the three" argument - never backed with facts of any kind - to which I reply: remove the dogmatic blinders and look around. Yes, Dr. O is a bit of a socialist because he is a Democrat but, remember, presidents don't get to appropriate one dime, it's the congress that appropriates funds and there will be no expansion of socialism unless the congress funds it. However, presidents do have the power to bring our troops back home and avoid wasting trillions on ruinous military adventures. It is likely that Dr. O would ease our foreign wars burden if elected president, even Dr. Paul admits it. I can only repeat what I said on another thread. 1) Obama is probably less likely than Clinton and McCain to start a war with Iran or to escalate the occupation of Iraq. That's a plus, I agree with that. However... 2) You admit that Obama is a socialist. On economic and social issues, he is far to the left of even other members of his own party. On gun control, taxes, abortion, immigration, welfare, and affirmative action he makes Hillary Clinton look like Ron Paul. The real icing on the cake is his Global Tax Proposal. Thanks to this brilliant plan (one of the only concrete policy proposals BHO was willing to take precious time off from Hope-and-Change grandstanding for) is also one of the worst bills ever to hit the Senate floor. If BHO gets his way, we have to pay welfare not only to our indigent dregs, but to all of Africa too. Doesn't that sound terrific? So as far as I'm concerned, 2 cancels any benefits of 1. Now, you claim that BHO can't push agenda (2) on his own. That's like saying that Bush isn't responsible for the war because he couldn't have done it without Congressional approval. Well, if BHO gets a Democratic congress, he'll get all of (2), and then some. So saying that BHO can't cause any harm because he can't appropriate funds without Congress passing spending bills is the same as saying that Bush or McCain can't go on warmongering because Congress has to declare war.
That's not entirely accurate as my vote in a national election still only impacts North Carolina. Again, my criteria is to look for those who are as close as possible to the Founders in their practice/belief. Are there exceptions to my rule of thumb? Yes. I will exercise that tomorrow as I vote for Carl Mumpower against John Armor (aka Congressman Billybob on FreeRepublic) who is a moderate Republican and again for Heath Shuler if by some miracle Armor wins the primary tomorrow. Armor is a threat and danger to our Constitutional Republic and cannot, must not, be allowed to rule in any capacity. I can't state emphatically enough how dangerous this man is. Obama says the right things about Iraq which gets a lot of traction here. The cold reality is President Bush has locked into Iraq for the foreseeable future. Obama may be able to reduce our presence, but it is highly unlikely he will be able to get us out altogether. When tomorrow comes, there is a candidate running for President who is best aligned with the Founders (Ron Paul) and that's who'll I vote for. I make no apologies for that and I reject on its face the notion my vote will screw the nation or that this nation is screwed, period. We'll survive, won't be easy, but we'll survive.
"What began in Russia will end in America."- 1930, Elder Ignatius of Harbin, Manchuria.
Well, to play devil's advocate here for a minute, hasn't Obama been calling for an expanded role in Afghanistan? What good is swapping one foreign policy quagmire for another? Sure, "obliterate them" Hillary is an obscenity; and so is "bomb bomb" McCain, but is "let's bomb Pakistan" Obomba any better? Ghost, you are no better an advocate for the devil than you are for Obama. Obama has clearly stated that he desires to root out bin Laden and rid the world of him. That was our nation's stance way back in '02 ... one that was damn nearly supported by our all of our fellow citizens and just about the entire civilized world! I for one still support it. I speak as one who has often stated the position that of the 3 bad candidates left "in the running", Obama is the least bad. I still believe that, a LITTLE BIT, For cysakes ghost, please CEASE such "support". With friends like you, who needs enemies? Go ahead .... join the "vote for Aaron Burr" camp, or whoever ... you're not opposing the Obamaphobes, you're tossing them raw meat every day. In this instance, the Decider is finally on to something ... you're either for us or against us.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
Well, to play devil's advocate here for a minute, hasn't Obama been calling for an expanded role in Afghanistan? What good is swapping one foreign policy quagmire for another? Sure, "obliterate them" Hillary is an obscenity; and so is "bomb bomb" McCain, but is "let's bomb Pakistan" Obomba any better? Ghost, you are no better an advocate for the devil than you are for Obama. Obama has clearly stated that he desires to root out bin Laden and rid the world of him. That was our nation's stance way back in '02 ... one that was damn nearly supported by our all of our fellow citizens and just about the entire civilized world! I for one still support it. I speak as one who has often stated the position that of the 3 bad candidates left "in the running", Obama is the least bad. I still believe that, a LITTLE BIT, For cysakes ghost, please CEASE such "support". With friends like you, who needs enemies? Go ahead .... join the "vote for Aaron Burr" camp, or whoever ... you're not opposing the Obamaphobes, you're tossing them raw meat every day. In this instance, the Decider is finally on to something ... you're either for us or against us. Then you can smugly vote for Ron again and the nation is screwed. That's not entirely accurate as my vote in a national election still only impacts North Carolina. That's not entirely accurate. If enough sooters turn our tomorrow it could determine the momentum and the ultimate nominee of the Democrat party. If the consequent McCain-Clinton contest doesn't effect North Carolinians, then y'all have some Secession plans I'm not privy to.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
Unlike many I have a microphone and have been on record as far back as the first Iraq war being opposed to wars in far away places....good try no cigar
He's just being honest. Just because Obama is less likely to go to war with Iran shouldn't blind people like you to the fact that Obama is no Ron Paul on foreign policy, and to the fact that on domestic social and economic issues, Obama is even more of a socialist than Hillary Clinton. I can understand people voting for Obama as a lesser evil on foreign policy, but what I can't for the life of me get is how people here delude themselves into being excited about supporting the guy - unless you like the thought of paying a Global Tax and having more gun-grabbing legislation signed into law. The Obamaphiles here remind me of many Bush supporters in 2000. They started out grudgingly voting for "the lesser evil" because at the time Gore seemed even worse, but somehow they conned themselves into turning "lesser evil" into "greatest thing since sliced bread."
Same here, only it goes back to Korea. My opinion is congruent with Obama's ... we both oppose "dumb wars" ... and we both make an exception with regard to Osama.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestIn which state do you reside, if I may ask.
#65. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#57)
These are false options, coming from the false premise that 'there is not one dime worth of difference... etc.' It is intellectually lazy to stick to this. All that's required is a minimum of mental agility to understand that the premise is false and it is so in a ridiculous way.
#66. To: Jethro Tull (#62)
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#67. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#51)
These were you terms: choose between these 3. Apparently, you believe that the coolest thing is to refuse to make a choice because they are all equally bad.
#68. To: Pinguinite (#34)
Those that like Obama because they are white guilters
#69. To: Jethro Tull (#62)
You shit in the pool and haven't the courage to accept responsibility. You're beginning to become a common denominator is forum disasters. Congrats.
#70. To: Fred Mertz (#68)
"Of the three, I like Obama. I'm of mixed blood so I can't be a white guilter."
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#71. To: PSUSA (#67)
#72. To: iconoclast (#61)
#73. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#71)
(Edited)
Your premise is that they are all equally evil or that, at least, all three of them have crossed a threshold of evilness beyond which it doesn't really matter who is the eviler one
#74. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#0)
#75. To: Pinguinite (#49)
#76. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#0)
Some of you or rather all of you (still that generic 'you') keep throwing the "there's not one dime worth of difference between the three" argument - never backed with facts of any kind
#77. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#2)
We should all follow our consciousness and we should all be prepared to live with the consequences of our deeds.
#78. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#17)
By the way it's impossible to prove the 'not one dime worth of difference' statement to be true and it is very easy to reject it as untrue.
#79. To: Pissed Off Janitor (#72)
#80. To: scooter (#74)
I'm going to vote for Ron Paul on Tuesday, then vote for the best local candidates. After the primaries, I'll re-evaluate.
#81. To: PSUSA (#73)
We need people that are not 1% evil, but -2% evil, or 2% good. Then things can improve.
#82. To: PSUSA (#63)
OK, but again we get into the lesser of evils.
#83. To: iconoclast (#82)
in the ghetto to which he, Obama himself, migrated in order to try to make a difference.
#84. To: iconoclast (#79)
#85. To: Ferret Mike (#66)
And you are a whiny little bitch that goes to highly personal attacks when your pussy hurts.
#86. To: robnoel (#84)
Nigeria oil rebels
#87. To: angle, Ferret Mike (#85)
Without JT, this forum would be terribly boring. I find him to be consistent and principled.
#88. To: angle (#85)
"Without JT, this forum would be terribly boring. I find him to be consistent and principled."
"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy
#89. To: Ragin1 (#83)
#90. To: robnoel (#84)
Nigeria oil rebels considering Obama truce appeal
#91. To: angle, Jetho Tull (#85)
Without JT, this forum would be terribly boring. I find him to be consistent and principled.
#92. To: iconoclast (#91)
#93. To: iconoclast (#90)
#94. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#0)
#95. To: robnoel (#93)
....if it walks like a duck squawks like a duck guess what?....once again this is not to say the other two choices are any less of a duck
#96. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#0)
If you (and it's a generic 'you') insist on being so intellectually lazy or derelict as to being unable or unwilling to see any difference between the three of them, that's the way you see things or rather imagine them and I am unable to cure or even treat your intellectual laziness or dereliction. I shall point out to you that even Dr. Paul saw a difference between the 3 and expressed a preference for Dr. Obama but you showed extreme obtuseness, dogmatism, lack of imagination and an inability to accept facts on a recent thread discussing that topic.
#97. To: iconoclast (#80)
Then you can smugly vote for Ron again and the nation is screwed.
#98. To: ghostdogtxn, a vast rightwing conspirator, *Obama 2008 (#94)
#99. To: bookmark, *Obama Reality Check* (#98)
To: ghostdogtxn, a vast rightwing conspirator, *Obama 2008
#100. To: scooter (#97)
#101. To: iconoclast (#95)
which apparently has also affected you?
#102. To: Mudboy Slim (#99)
(Edited)
hunnerd
two
#103. To: iconoclast (#98)
(Edited)
#104. To: robnoel (#101)
Unlike many I have a microphone and have been on record as far back as the first Iraq war being opposed to wars in far away places
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