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Title: Attention 4um Members
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URL Source: http://none
Published: May 4, 2008
Author: me
Post Date: 2008-05-04 22:40:24 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 18886
Comments: 655
I have to be honest, I'm completely distressed at what's happened to this forum. The fighting and the distrust between those for and those against Obama has gotten to the point where, in my opinion, it's destroying the forum. What's the point of having an open free speech venue when everyone is bozo'ing everyone else? When I read my mission statement and what Freedom4um was created to be, I don't even recognize the place anymore. There will be changes made in the near future as I decide what is best for the continued growth of this forum.
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#458. To: Old Friend (#455)
I like 'infinity'. Infinity is a round number and round is good. 10... is such an arbitrary thing. It's not even a prime.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
At the very least, the process of getting him on your ballot and campaigning for him will serve to awaken a few more people before it's too late to even have choices left...imo
Infinity would be good. Or how about a reverse bozo filter. You pick the people that you can see.
I know someone did. Neil seems to think that Obama is truthful when he says he will not bomb Iran. Why I do not know. Obama was not even truthful about when his parents got married. To me it is clear why Obama has been chosen to run, to cause more racial unrest in this nation. Maybe Neil can't see that being down in Ecuador as easy as we can in the USA.
God is always good!
This would be the Os. The ones who shut down valid debate via personal censorship. You might have a point w/the infinite # of bozos since socialism isn't defensible.
You mean... like an address book... I don't think so. In my view, everyone is a wonderful and interesting person unless they disqualify themselves.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Our government has the constitution on bozo. That is the problem.
I can not speak for others but the 3 that I filtered out distinguished themselves as exceedingly and aggressively vulgar and completely incapable of promoting or defending their views, whatever their views were.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Including WTP...we have to flood their filter.
That's what the bozo is for. The problem of abuse enters when, after a civil exchange, and one side loses on points, the opponents bozo # blips up by 2,3 or 4. That is an intentional effort to demoralize posters who offer solid contributions. Not saying anyone in particular did this, but it was a tactic that was being used more and more frequently.
I wouldn't mind if everyone bozoed me. Doesn't bother me in the least. Lurkers can still see every post.
God is always good!
Yep.
Sure, I can understand how this can be unpleasant but... if someone does not wish to hear what you have to say... what can you do? Should they be forced to listen?
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Of course I can understand, but when non offensive posters become the subject
of spontaneous bozo dumps, valid debate suffers.
disgusting elites! well said, JD!
I've given up on the local level. They will wake up when the depression enters their lives (or martial law). I don't have any sympathy for people who are either too dumb to see what's happening or so wrapped up in their own little lives that they can't/won't see out. I did my thing and now I'm done. Even most of the people in the Ron Paul meetup group quit when Paul didn't make a great showing. They actually withdrew their names from the group - like they were ashamed of it. Many of them were just there to keep an eye on the group, not to support Ron Paul.
I agree that many, even most, are unwilling to look or know. Of course many have been dumbed down, and do not even know what they have lost. That is why I say wake up those that we can and don't worry about the Sheep. Sheeple will behave as they are - Sheep. As for the "mind numbed robots": No doubt some were Freeptards and Dildoeheads who were keeping watch on the heretics. They are PsyOp programmed morons and as such are fashioning their own nooses. No doubt some were also CoIntelPro type provocateurs and snitches. Our task is not an easy one but it is that or slavery and eventual liquidation.
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
You mean, the "promise" of gun confiscation, right? Apparently Cain is giving an *honest* promise that we will continue the Iraq occupation throughout his administration, while Obama is lying when he promises the opposite. What's wrong with voting for a candidate who's actually lying about confiscating guns? But of course this gets away from the whole point I'm trying to make, as that's based on the premise that we *know* what they are going to do regardless of what they promise. Would you vote for someone who you know is going to start a war with Iran AND restore the 2A? Inquiring minds want to see you not duck this question any further.
He answered one hypothetical question. Blew the little girl's head off in that one.
I'm pretty sure Ol' Ben Franklin meant that anyone who gives up *their own* safety for their own liberty deserved neither, not someone else's safety. Or in the context of my statement, giving up other people's innocent lives for the sake of our own liberty. Not applicable here.
I've hesitated to give my own opinion on this decision because I don't want who I am to give my opinion more weight than it should. My opinion should have no more weight than any other member. This is christine's forum and it's purely her decision, and I purposely avoided giving my opinion prior as it was not asked of me. Having said that, I disagree with the decision to cut the bozo count. One important question is how many people had more than 10 entries on their bozo list. I know of only one, but perhaps there were more. If there was only one, then this action can be construed as an action only against that one person. Was there more than one? Was that question asked before the decision was made? The suggestion that the bozo system is being abused by people who don't want to be accountable is nonsense. The reality is, as pointed out a few times, the discord that is here is not unique to 4um. Forums across the internet are experiencing the same phenomenon, and it has to do with the election season. That's the obvious trigger point. The bozo system has been in place here since day one and even earlier on LP and it was never seriously entertained as an abuse mechanism. That didn't happen until now, when the general election has all political forums in a tizzy. Coincidence? Absolutely not. The problem is NOT the bozo system. I think a small amount of thoughtfulness makes that obvious. Further, any concern that 4um is was being destroyed is also nonsense. It's not. As a meeting place to discuss differences, heated arguments bring more attention, not less. While certainly differing conditions will drive some people away, more and/or different people arrive to replace them. That's normal and healthy in any forum venue. I believe 4um was not broken and should not have been fixed. Such "fix" changes can destablize things even more. Then again, if the result is more to christine's preferences, then the fix was appropriate. 4um should take any flavor that christine prefers, whether it be in content discussed, participants invited to post, or any other particular dimension. My humble 2c.
He may well bomb Iran. He may even launch all the nukes we have left in our arsenals at random countries throughout the world including the US. He may imprison all freedom loving people and order nuke waste dumped in all fresh water supplies. I don't know. The reason I and many others here prefer Obama over the other 2, a reason that has been broadcast over and over and over again but which somehow fails to take (not singling you out as the communication problem seems widespread) due to this phenomenon, is simply that all considered, Obama is less likely to do harm than Cain or Hill. That's it, as cleanly and concisely as I can possibly put it. I couldn't care less when his parents were married, and couldn't care less if Obama lied about the timing. I know you think he'll cause Rodney King style race riots everywhere. Maybe you're right, but I don't think so. Maybe Obama is a racist himself. I think David Duke is too, but I'd probably not care about that if he were in the running. It's not like the president can start ordering whites to the back of the buses. That's not going to happen. At least I don't think so.
Complete and utter BS. It was never true in the past and it is not true now.
Indeed!
Hate to say this, but the last time a depression hit, government nannyism when into hyperdrive. It is easy to lose that sympathy. I certainly did.
So, by his own admission, I characterize JT as willing to murder innocent people to further his own personal interests. Since it is true that he also opposes Obama, then in so far as JT is concerned the statement "accusing people who weren't supporting Obama to be akin to murderers" is certainly true, but it is certainly false to construe that as accusing *all* people who oppose Obama as being akin to murderers. That is false. Angle should know better than to make such a false insinuation. Neil, I'm sure you recall the story of William Tell. After Tell was given no choice but to split the apple on his son's head, the legend has it that Hermann Gessler asked why Tell had drawn two bolts before firing at the apple. You could have just as easily framed your question in such a way as to make JT appear noble, instead of attempting to corner him into a response that we'd expect from a murdering psycho. As a dedicated 2nd amendment activist I understand JT's and christine's passionate views on the issue very well, and that is why I came here. (And my reasons for being quiet lately have nothing to do with the 2nd amendment) If JT was forced to take an innocent life to save millions of others from more of "your tyranny", then trust me, he'd draw two "bolts", and the second (and possibly the first if it couldn't be fired to free the child and offer a chance of escape) would be for you. And, you or any other tyrant would never again have occasion to ask why we place such a high value on our right to keep and bear arms, or question our love for innocent children. We keep arms and suffer the abuse of those who will not take responsibility for their own freedom or the protection of their own children because tyrants could and likely would make us kill our loved ones if we lacked the means to prevent that. The difference between us and the Chinese though, is we can stop would be tyrants from ever issuing such edicts here, or make the price so high that it is as unthinkable to them as murdering an innocent child is to you, JT and me. If you mean to underscore that JT is more passionate in his rhetoric than most, then I'll agree with you. But, if you framed the question properly to illuminate the truth rather than paint an ugly and inaccurate picture of me, then I'd give you the same answer as JT. But, I wouldn't allow you to make my life's work as an activist appear to be the selfish quirk of a homicidal sociopath with a fondness for weapons and a callous disregard for the lives of our precious children.
It was a stupid question to start with. No rights can be gained by killing innocents. Just like no rights can be taken away by not killing innocents. God given rights are just that, God given. Those who believe, that the racist bigot mental nut case, called Obama, would keep his word about not bombing Iran, are under clearly not thinking right.
God is always good!
that is so very well reasoned and articulated. thank you.
We've apparently moved on from this particular hypothetical. My point in what you responded to is that JT consistently failed to give an accounting of himself beyond what he stated at face value. You'll further note that what you responded to was in answer to a request to respond to a mischaracterization that was placed upon me, so of course I stand by my post all the more. There are a variety of answers to just about any hypothetical scenario that can carry moral weight, and they don't have to agree. In this particular case, it appears JT's equates a loss of the 2A with a death sentence. I can appreciate that point even though do not agree with the premise as I know of no other country that has a 2A and people there are basically okay and often doing even better. Ecuador has no 2A and I'm doing just fine! But since JT and others have such contempt for my illustration, if you continue reading this thread you'll see that I've presented one much more realistic -- a presidential candidate who would fully restore the 2A while starting a war with Iran. Please tell me if you think a question of whether to vote for him or not is also something that is unfair and impossible to answer soundly. JT apparently feels it is. JT, though he accuses others of evading debate via bozo, himself has refused to defend himself and justify his accusation of me for a statement I made in the past relating to this very subject. That is, in fact, the whole root of this hypothetical matter. I'm sorry but I must ask: Did you mean to characterize me as a tyrant?
Badeye used to imply as much, but that was before he gave himself a hummer.
Indeed, we retain God-given rights in spirit, even if they are taken away in practice. Yet when one's right to life is taken away, it is gone nonetheless. One element of my hypothetical is that it contrasts real life living and dying with the restoration of an abstract legality. Given the difference in nature between the two, that one is as real as can be and the other just ink and paper, I don't think there's any comparison.
Badeye used to imply as much, but that was before he gave himself a hummer. Badeye's lucky. I wish I had a hummer. Maybe he'll buy me one.
It's debatable whether ANY of the three stooges would be any less of a danger than the others. Clinton seems less of a hard-core leftist than Obama though, and I see her as a lesser threat than he would present. I certainly won't be voting for any of them however.
I heard at one time he was giving them for free.
Well said.
I fully agree. Discussions where many views are expressed are interesting. Echo chambers are boring. I visit this forum for 2 reasons: to get some 'fringe' news (it's true) and to learn something new or check my own views against others by having my own views challenged and by me challenged theirs. A forum where discussions are like: 'yes', 'yes', 'me too', 'I agree with you', 'I agree with you more', 'we all agree more', 'yes, we are all so right' has no value. I suppose that when everyone acquires infinite wisdom then all discussions and debates cease and we all die in peace but, until then, we all have something to learn.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Thanks, that is interesting and good to know. Not that their position cant change, but that they have ruled on the matter.
MY REPLY TO ZEITGEIST: 1John Chapter 2: "21 I write to you not because you do not know the truth but because you do, and because every lie is alien to the truth. 22 Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist." Bump to this excellent well-reasoned analysis. Geez, HOUNDDAWG, you've cetainly earned your respect around here with posts like that.
You and your 2nd Amendment haven't done much to prevent our current tyrants from issuing edicts that have led to the murder of thousands of innocent children in Iraq.
To reason, indeed, he was not in the habit of attending. His mode of arguing, if it is to be so called, was one not uncommon among dull and stubborn persons, who are accustomed to be surrounded by their inferiors. He asserted a proposition; and, as often as wiser people ventured respectfully to show that it was erroneous, he asserted it again, in exactly the same words, and conceived that, by doing so, he at once disposed of all objections. - Macaulay, "History of England," Vol. 1, Chapter 6, on James II.
Yes, and our precious bodily fluids too. (Don't we all hate fluoridation?) In preparation for the W Tell challenge, I did a little bit of plinking over the weekend. I was pleasantly surprised to note that I was able to take a pencil's eraser from 30 yards, 5 out 5. Then I ran out of pencils. By the way, I just read somewhere that Truman was the least popular president ever, at 22%. He was disliked because some IRS corruption issues, messing up the Korean war and for trying to nationalize the steel industry. No one seemed to care one bit about his incinerating or baking thousands of little Japanese babies, and their grannies too. It's possible that his popularity increased after that.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
People on the bozo aren't debaters, they're tiresome and/or offensive boors.
Success is relative. It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things. T. S. Eliot
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestMaybe she should set it to a thousand. Just to be safe.
#459. To: RickyJ (#456)
#460. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#458)
#461. To: Jethro Tull (#449)
Ben Franklin said something similar, I believe.
#462. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#450)
There are individuals who, unable to defend their views
#463. To: Old Friend (#460)
#464. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#463)
#465. To: Jethro Tull (#462)
#466. To: Old Friend (#464)
Our government has the constitution on bozo. That is the problem.
#467. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#465)
#468. To: Jethro Tull (#467)
#469. To: RickyJ (#468)
#470. To: Jethro Tull (#467)
#471. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#470)
#472. To: James Deffenbach (#377)
What do you suspect would lead the moron to believe that it is any of his business what guns other people have or don't have? If he doesn't want any guns he shouldn't have any and if he doesn't like them at all then the people who guard the goofy eff shouldn't have any either. I am so tired of politicians and people like Rosie O'Donnell who think that peons shouldn't have any weapons but it is fine for people to protect them with those evil guns.
#473. To: Original_Intent (#256)
Push at the local level and begin working from the bottom up. By getting our own local areas back under our control it builds our base and our power
#474. To: ratcat (#473)
"...They actually withdrew their names from the group - like they were ashamed of it. Many of them were just there to keep an eye on the group, not to support Ron Paul."
#475. To: Jethro Tull (#432)
You and the promises of politicians. These bastards are born with defective DNA - they open their mouths and lies tumble out. Your hypothetical is likewise defective. No sane man would accept their promise of no war in exchange for voluntary gun confiscation.
#476. To: Red Jones (#443)
well, I guess you're in with Ronald Reagan then. he wouldn't answer hypothetical questions from journalists.
#477. To: Jethro Tull, RickyJ (#449)
#478. To: a vast rightwing conspirator, christine (#450)
Who, pray tell, is hurt if I (it's a generic 'I') can't stand 14 members and love everybody else? Why should I be forced to endure the nonsense or the crap that these losers are throwing at me (it's a generic 'me') as the price I must pay in order to enjoy my interaction with everyone else?
#479. To: RickyJ (#461)
Neil seems to think that Obama is truthful when he says he will not bomb Iran. Why I do not know.
Obama was not even truthful about when his parents got married. To me it is clear why Obama has been chosen to run, to cause more racial unrest in this nation.
#480. To: Jethro Tull (#462)
This would be the Os. The ones who shut down valid debate via personal censorship.
#481. To: Old Friend (#464)
Our government has the constitution on bozo. That is the problem.
#482. To: ratcat (#473)
I've given up on the local level. They will wake up when the depression enters their lives (or martial law).
I don't have any sympathy for people who are either too dumb to see what's happening or so wrapped up in their own little lives that they can't/won't see out.
#483. To: Pinguinite, Jethro Tull, christine (#269)
Jethro Tull freely admitted and has never redacted nor denied, in spite of being given numerous opportunities to do so, that in a hypothetical scenario, he would shoot an innocent girl as a means to an end of furthering 2A rights. The girl dies for the "greater good" he said.
#484. To: HOUNDDAWG (#483)
#485. To: HOUNDDAWG (#483)
#486. To: HOUNDDAWG (#483)
And, you or any other tyrant would never again have occasion to ask
#487. To: Pinguinite (#486)
I'm sorry but I must ask: Did you mean to characterize me as a tyrant?
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#488. To: RickyJ (#484)
God given rights are just that, God given.
#489. To: FormerLurker (#487)
#490. To: Pinguinite (#479)
Obama is less likely to do harm than Cain or Hill. That's it, as cleanly and concisely as I can possibly put it.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#491. To: Pinguinite (#489)
Maybe he'll buy me one.
You appear to be a major trouble maker...and I'm getting really pissed. - GoldiLox, 7/27/2006
#492. To: HOUNDDAWG (#483)
#493. To: Pinguinite (#478)
I believe 4um was not broken and should not have been fixed.
#494. To: nolu_chan (#381)
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#495. To: James Deffenbach, HOUNDDAWG (#483)
#496. To: HOUNDDAWG (#483)
The difference between us and the Chinese though, is we can stop would be tyrants from ever issuing such edicts here, or make the price so high that it is as unthinkable to them as murdering an innocent child is to you, JT and me.
#497. To: HOUNDDAWG (#483)
(Edited)
But, I wouldn't allow you to make my life's work as an activist appear to be the selfish quirk of a homicidal sociopath with a fondness for weapons and a callous disregard for the lives of our precious children.
#498. To: Jethro Tull (#428)
She wanted the option of adding up to 6 more, which christine thought would be run counter to debate and the intent of the forum.
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